So how did a 7 fight novice beat The Greatest?

[APerno]

I don't care what some stupid racist screamed at Clay... That's one ignorant person in a crowd of many thousands... Clay had a lot of fans who were rooting for him... This fight was not fought in the South and Jones was blacker than Ali by a mile... That crowd went for Jones because he was the aggressor for the most part against a much bigger opponent -- and Jones was landing the better punches and obviously beating Clay for the first 6 rounds.

I would love to have met this " popular " Clay you have invented, as indeed I suspect Ali would have liked too himself. The whole of the boxing establishment were against him and so were the majority of fight fans, because he did everything that was considered to be " wrong " in the way he fought, and he was a braggard to boot.

You need to learn your history as opposed to creating your own versions. Clay / Ali was one of the most UNPOPULAR fighters ever, until the world ( America in particular ) changed its opinion on Vietnam. It was far from unusual for him to fight in front of hostile crowds.

I was around then and went to a mixed race high school... Almost all of my classmates who were boxing fans and liked Clay.. Most of us believed Clay would beat Jones, Cooper, Liston etc.. Clay had a big mouth and was a rebel, but that was cool in the 60's.. Clay had a big personality. He was a funny guy. The public generally liked him other than a segment of society who will always be with us. Below Ali appeared on "What's My Line" and was very well received by the audience.. NO cat calls or negative reaction -- both right after he changed his name to Muhammad Ali and later when he resisted the draft. So you basically don't know what you're talking about.

Ali's first appearance on What's My Line following Liston fights -- 21:45 of video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucthiM7QbqY

Ali's second appearance when he was resisting the US Gov and draft https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjdwvjgTS4E

Thank you kalan I really enjoyed the what's my line video especially the '65 version -

[ClivePatrickLyons]

I'v watched that fight and Doug Jones did not win that fight he fought well but win it NO

I agree, Ali won it. It's not like Jones was a bad fighter either, he was ranked 3rd in the world at the time.

Jones could fight

[SteveO]

Great videos.
Thanks for posting them Kalan.

[Caractacus]

Your "FAIR REPORTER" who you won't mention his name, supports ME BuzzBox... He proves I'm RIGHT and you're WRONG

One of his last lines in his Clay worshiping article "the crowd was with Jones in the aftermath" shows that the VAST MAJORITY did NOT have Clay winning as you asserted... He made an unsupported claim to counter the opinion of the great unwashed in his next sentence.

He asserts "most experts" had Clay winning narrowly.. Did he take a poll? Did he say what experts? Where did he dig up that opinion from? Most all of the experts I talked to over the years had Doug Jones winning---because he landed the harder and cleaner punches... Clay was bigger, taller, and stronger than Jones.. He had a big reach advantage on him and wore him down to a degree with his size.. Clay was able to out-wrestle Jones in the clinches---all of which he initiated... Clay finished strong in the 9th and 10th but the fight was already gone because Jones won the first 6 rounds.. The 7th and 8th were closely fought but Clay took hard punches in those rounds and had to clinch like Hell.. Clay fired desperately in the last 2 rounds---while still getting hit---to eek them out, but it was too little too late.

Latest in.

Ali had the crowd against him in most of his fights pre exile. In one of the Liston fights one white woman was heard to scream at the top of her voice " go on sonny, kill that ( N word )" obviously failing to notice that Liston was also a black guy. The idiot.

LOL That was Sonny's own housekeeper from Sweden.
of course she was going to be bias for him to win to a certain degree.

[Tony1244]

Your "FAIR REPORTER" who you won't mention his name, supports ME BuzzBox... He proves I'm RIGHT and you're WRONG

One of his last lines in his Clay worshiping article "the crowd was with Jones in the aftermath" shows that the VAST MAJORITY did NOT have Clay winning as you asserted... He made an unsupported claim to counter the opinion of the great unwashed in his next sentence.

He asserts "most experts" had Clay winning narrowly.. Did he take a poll? Did he say what experts? Where did he dig up that opinion from? Most all of the experts I talked to over the years had Doug Jones winning---because he landed the harder and cleaner punches... Clay was bigger, taller, and stronger than Jones.. He had a big reach advantage on him and wore him down to a degree with his size.. Clay was able to out-wrestle Jones in the clinches---all of which he initiated... Clay finished strong in the 9th and 10th but the fight was already gone because Jones won the first 6 rounds.. The 7th and 8th were closely fought but Clay took hard punches in those rounds and had to clinch like Hell.. Clay fired desperately in the last 2 rounds---while still getting hit---to eek them out, but it was too little too late.

Kalan....the last line was my own....it's not in quotes it's my take after watching the fight recently. I do take you seriously....but I don't agree with you. I don't think your a troll, I just think you evaluate in a different way than many others.

Clay's bragging got the crowd in Jone's corner...not Jones winning performance..he didn't win the fight. When the fight turned competitive vs a one sided beatdown, they went with gentleman Jones. Leave it to your ol' Pal Buzz to bring sensibility to the discussion.

As a kid reading about the Clay-Jones fight I was under the impression it was highway robbery. As an adult I was able to watch the fight and thought Clay/Ali won fairly easily. Jones was a good little scrapper who had the crowd in his corner, but I thought the anointed winner won fairly easily, despite the fact the KO prediction didn't materialize.

[Controversial]

As a kid reading about the Clay-Jones fight I was under the impression it was highway robbery. As an adult I was able to watch the fight and thought Clay/Ali won fairly easily. Jones was a good little scrapper who had the crowd in his corner, but I thought the anointed winner won fairly easily, despite the fact the KO prediction didn't materialize.

I was the same, I too read about how Jones was robbed but when I watched and scored it I had Ali winning. From memory I had it fairly close after 8 but the last 2 rounds swayed it for Ali.

[APerno]

Grow up for gawds sake man. Charles Manson could have gone on " what's my line " and got a round of applause.

They could do it via satellite feed - why not send that in as a suggestion to NBC

[Kalan]

I would love to have met this " popular " Clay you have invented, as indeed I suspect Ali would have liked too himself. The whole of the boxing establishment were against him and so were the majority of fight fans, because he did everything that was considered to be " wrong " in the way he fought, and he was a braggard to boot.

You need to learn your history as opposed to creating your own versions. Clay / Ali was one of the most UNPOPULAR fighters ever, until the world ( America in particular ) changed its opinion on Vietnam. It was far from unusual for him to fight in front of hostile crowds.

I was around then and went to a mixed race high school... Almost all of my classmates who were boxing fans and liked Clay.. Most of us believed Clay would beat Jones, Cooper, Liston etc.. Clay had a big mouth and was a rebel, but that was cool in the 60's.. Clay had a big personality. He was a funny guy. The public generally liked him other than a segment of society who will always be with us. Below Ali appeared on "What's My Line" and was very well received by the audience.. NO cat calls or negative reaction -- both right after he changed his name to Muhammad Ali and later when he resisted the draft. So you basically don't know what you're talking about.

Ali's first appearance on What's My Line following Liston fights -- 21:45 of video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucthiM7QbqY

Ali's second appearance when he was resisting the US Gov and draft https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjdwvjgTS4E

Are you for real? You are trying to tell us that Ali appearing in a small television studio, in front of a hand picked audience on what can only be described as a game show, is representative of how he was both perceived, and received at fight venues?

Grow up for gawds sake man. Charles Manson could have gone on " what's my line " and got a round of applause.

That was NOT a "hand picked" studio audience... That was a first come first seated studio audience... They gave Ali a great reception because he was a very popular figure and he made loads of appearances on TV and in front of thousands of college kids... When he appeared on the Ed Sullivan Show with a very large studio audience he got the same kind of applause... He was always well received and never needed body guards like Floyd Mayweather or Leon Spinks...

And saying "Charles Manson could have gone on " what's my line " and got a round of applause" is just plain stupid. The man responsible for the Tate and LaBianca murders is not somebody anyone would applaud... Ali was following his moral compass and was respected for it... This is America and most citizens gave Ali plenty of space... Plus the Doug Jones fight was well before Ali's legal problems began, and most people liked him.

[Kalan]

I would love to have met this " popular " Clay you have invented, as indeed I suspect Ali would have liked too himself. The whole of the boxing establishment were against him and so were the majority of fight fans, because he did everything that was considered to be " wrong " in the way he fought, and he was a braggard to boot.

You need to learn your history as opposed to creating your own versions. Clay / Ali was one of the most UNPOPULAR fighters ever, until the world ( America in particular ) changed its opinion on Vietnam. It was far from unusual for him to fight in front of hostile crowds.

I was around then and went to a mixed race high school... Almost all of my classmates who were boxing fans and liked Clay.. Most of us believed Clay would beat Jones, Cooper, Liston etc.. Clay had a big mouth and was a rebel, but that was cool in the 60's.. Clay had a big personality. He was a funny guy. The public generally liked him other than a segment of society who will always be with us. Below Ali appeared on "What's My Line" and was very well received by the audience.. NO cat calls or negative reaction -- both right after he changed his name to Muhammad Ali and later when he resisted the draft. So you basically don't know what you're talking about.

Ali's first appearance on What's My Line following Liston fights -- 21:45 of video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucthiM7QbqY

Ali's second appearance when he was resisting the US Gov and draft https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjdwvjgTS4E

Are you for real? You are trying to tell us that Ali appearing in a small television studio, in front of a hand picked audience on what can only be described as a game show, is representative of how he was both perceived, and received at fight venues?

Grow up for gawds sake man. Charles Manson could have gone on " what's my line " and got a round of applause.

That was NOT a "hand picked" studio audience... That was a first come first seated studio audience... They gave Ali a great reception because he was a very popular figure and he made loads of appearances on TV and in front of thousands of college kids... When he appeared on the Ed Sullivan Show with a very large studio audience he got the same kind of applause... He was always well received and never needed body guards like Floyd Mayweather or Leon Spinks...

And saying "Charles Manson could have gone on " what's my line " and got a round of applause" is just plain stupid. The man responsible for the Tate and LaBianca murders is not somebody anyone would applaud... Ali was following his moral compass and was respected for it... This is America and most citizens gave Ali plenty of space... Plus the Doug Jones fight was well before Ali's legal problems began, and most people liked him.

[APerno]

I was around then and went to a mixed race high school... Almost all of my classmates who were boxing fans and liked Clay.. Most of us believed Clay would beat Jones, Cooper, Liston etc.. Clay had a big mouth and was a rebel, but that was cool in the 60's.. Clay had a big personality. He was a funny guy. The public generally liked him other than a segment of society who will always be with us. Below Ali appeared on "What's My Line" and was very well received by the audience.. NO cat calls or negative reaction -- both right after he changed his name to Muhammad Ali and later when he resisted the draft. So you basically don't know what you're talking about.

Ali's first appearance on What's My Line following Liston fights -- 21:45 of video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucthiM7QbqY

Ali's second appearance when he was resisting the US Gov and draft https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjdwvjgTS4E

Are you for real? You are trying to tell us that Ali appearing in a small television studio, in front of a hand picked audience on what can only be described as a game show, is representative of how he was both perceived, and received at fight venues?

Grow up for gawds sake man. Charles Manson could have gone on " what's my line " and got a round of applause.

That was NOT a "hand picked" studio audience... That was a first come first seated studio audience... They gave Ali a great reception because he was a very popular figure and he made loads of appearances on TV and in front of thousands of college kids... When he appeared on the Ed Sullivan Show with a very large studio audience he got the same kind of applause... He was always well received and never needed body guards like Floyd Mayweather or Leon Spinks...

And saying "Charles Manson could have gone on " what's my line " and got a round of applause" is just plain stupid. The man responsible for the Tate and LaBianca murders is not somebody anyone would applaud... Ali was following his moral compass and was respected for it... This is America and most citizens gave Ali plenty of space... Plus the Doug Jones fight was well before Ali's legal problems began, and most people liked him.

Kalan - we seem to carry a similar opinion about Ali, as a fighter and as a man - if I am not misinterpreting your past posts, you don't seem to hold Ali in high regards as a fighter, but show an overwhelming respect for him as a man - I am of the same ilk - I rooted against Ali in every fight he ever had but had an overwhelming respect for the way he accorded himself as a champion and as a man - it would have been so easy for him to 'go along' with the military and the war, (they always intended to 'Joe Louis' him, and even assured him he would never see combat; the whole coward charge was meaningless) but instead he stood his ground and took the risk that he may never fight again - I will differ with you on one point, as much as Ali was loved, (and he was) he was hated by as many - there is an old cliche, "you ain't a star until half the people love ya, and half the people hate ya" - if half the people don't hate you, you probably haven't done anything worth while; you Can con people into loving you, but you Can't con people into hating you, you have to actually affect them to get that kind of passionate response.

[Kalan]

I lived through the entire period... I know some people didn't like Ali... Most people laughed at them.. They were the jealous types and the racist types.. Very many people were against the Viet Nam War from the start.. It was the dumbest war ever.. "HEY HEY LBJ - HOW MANY KIDS DID YOU KILL TODAY?"

Nixon was elected to end the war. As unsavory and disliked as Nixon was, he was preferred over Hubert Humphrey who represented the status quo - so his defeat was inevitable .. People hated the war.. Ali was a hero during the anti war movement.. People either liked him or were pretty neutral about him if they believed in the domino theory... Ali played up the antihero theme and most people knew it was an act.. When he started on "The honorable Elijah Muhammad" everybody's eyes glazed over.. They wanted him joking and reciting poetry.. He could be tone deaf and insensitive on some occasions.. Once when he started on Elijah Muhammad Johnny Carson did a loud palm plant on his own face... Ali laughed and changed the subject.