Best lifts for improving punching power?

[Kalan]

Forget that nonsense... Everybody already KNOWS you need correct scientific form and technique when you throw punches... But If you have milk-toast strength you're not going to punch hard... It would be impossible for Michael Spinks to punch as hard as Mike Tyson when they met because he wasn't nearly as strong and powerful... Tyson's technique wasn't perfect, but he could hit a ton and the clash lasted 90 seconds.

Weight training is a proven system for adding tremendous strength and punching power... Even hacking up trees with an ax and slamming tires with a sledge hammer are weight lifting techniques of sorts... shadow boxing with 3-pound dumbbells or in a swimming pool with water up to your neck both provide resistance and improve punching power... I don't recommend those because you get BETTER results and more strength and power with heavier weights and targeting every muscle in your arms, legs, torso, obliques, neck, and everything else.. Look how powerfully world class sprinters are built versus marathon runners.. They're much more muscular.. They're ripped.. They need explosive power -- and not just in their legs.

[Mr.DW]

Conn could get smart or stupid -- it doesn't matter... Louis still knocked him out because he was bigger and stronger... He wasn't a better boxer.

Mayweather hasn't knocked anyone out in years... He kept them honest by having a friendly referee who keeps them honest.. Mostly it's novice boxers who punch with too much body -- throwing from the floor and almost twisting themselves into the floor when they miss.. A short right hand can be all arm and knock you cold if you're strong enough.. Golovkin knocked Macklin out with a liver shot that was all arm -- he was just very strong and balanced on his feet when he ripped it in there.

It takes a lot more than a referee to keep a guy honest. Guys that have fought Mayweather have said they were surprised by his power. Whether you like it or not Mayweather is highly accurate and that in turn keeps guys careful. Mayweather can catch you going in and out. When he catches you it is clean and flush. That is why he only needs to throw a few punches to win a round. They all land and everyone see's it.

Guys that rule the top of the divisions aren't the ones who rely on raw strength rather they rely on accuracy and fighting smart. Shawn Porter is probably the strongest guy at welterweight yet he doesn't have the power that Thurman and Spence have. Hell he couldn't even knock down a former sfw who wasn't even throwing the entire fight.

Mayweather was a great boxer no doubt... He wasn't a puncher... I don't think he would have done particularly well with Spence, Brook, Thurman or Porter who can all box and punch... I can't think of anyone Floyd ever fought who was an outstanding boxer and puncher... I agree Thurman and Spence definitely have the power edge on Shawn Porter.. But Porter smashed Malignaggi out like Garcia couldn't so he's a puncher too -- and Khan, Pacquiao, Maidana, and Bradley have been ducking Brook, Thurman, and Porter for years... and they want no part of Spence either.

You can measure punching power electronically -- and after 2 years of sport specific weight training, athletes punch harder... throw harder and faster... jump higher... sprint faster... bat for better average and power... and drive farther off the tee... Most all high schools and all major colleges and pro sports camps incorporate weight training into their athletic programs... because it's effective.

What weight training achieved for punching power in 2 years would take a quarter of that TOPS in traditional boxing training. It's a waste of energy.

[Kalan]

Weight training doesn't waste your time. It works because it makes you stronger.. A stronger athlete is a more powerful athlete.. You don't neglect any of your other training because you're increasing your strength and punching power by leaps and bounds with weight training -- you do every program...

If you're in training camp you've got 16 hours every day when you're not sleeping.. You've got 14 hours when you're not eating or sleeping. About 10 of those should be directed towards improving yourself as a boxer. You have plenty of time for relaxation and still getting in your strength training, flexibility training, cardio conditioning, plyometrics, whatever new-fangled mental and psychological training you want to do ... and your traditional boxing workout.

[IKSRTFO]

To be optimal, you would need both. But like the title says, you would need to do resistance training optimal for punching power, not power in general. Can't see how weights wouldn't help you if used correctly and not overdone. Martial Artists have no problem incorporating weight training in their routines. They just understand that they are martial artists first and resistance is only a means to make them better as they spend much more time on their art.

[IKSRTFO]

Strength doesn't increase punching power but it creates the potential for better punching power. 2 people who are 132 lbs and punch with the same form but 1 guy is stronger then that guy will hit harder. Technique, accuracy, and leverage are 100x better than focusing on getting stronger. Tommy Hearns isn't the physically strongest guy but he could hit the hardest out of any Welterweight to ever live due to his leverage, technique and accuracy. So for any boxer wanting to hit harder don't focus on strength, focus on leverage, accuracy and technique. Leverage being the most important.

Saying Hearns is the hardest hitting welter ever is speculative.. Egidijus Kavaliauskas may hit harder than Hearns.. We don't know because their punching power hasn't been measured.. Hearns hit Ray Leonard with dozens of right hands in their WW fight and couldn't even floor him ... and got knocked out himself. Leonard was floored by other welterweights but not Hearns.. If your 132-pounder example is valid strength indeed increases punching power.. If Floyd Patterson is punching it out with Sonny Liston he'll suffer a KO loss every time at the hands of the bigger, stronger man.. You don't have to be taller -- Mike Tyson was going to punch Michael Spinks out cold, every time, regardless of his form or how tall Spinks was.. Louis was being out-boxed by Billy Conn.. but his greater strength and power won him both fights. Saying 1 attribute increases power a 100 X better than another attribute is something you pulled out of the blue.

Technique, accuracy, and leverage are all important -- so is timing, because if you catch your foe with a jab, straight right, or left hook while he's starting the same punch -- the power is magnified.. But the biggest ingredient is strength.. Strength equals power.. Weakness equals feather dusting.

Ok it is safe to say that Hearns was one of the hardest hitting. If you are disagreeing with that then you dksab. That guy you mentioned hasn't even fought at the top level of the sport.

As far as my example goes of course a stronger muscle is better then a weaker muscle. But the catch is that not every fighter at each weight uses the same technique. The two 132 lbers could be complete novice arm punchers. Joe Louis didn't knock out Conn because he was stronger, he knocked him out because Conn got stupid and went for the knockout. They knew from the beginning that if he did that he would lose.

Strength can increase power but it is useless if you can rarely land a punch. It doesn't take some dynamite out of this world power to knock a guy out cold, any half way decent puncher could knock someone out if they land cleanly. How do you think Mayweather keeps guys honest. He doesn't have one punch power but he is so accurate with 1 punch that it stuns guys.

Mayweather trains with weights also to maintain some of that pop.

[Mr.DW]

Weight training doesn't waste your time. It works because it makes you stronger.. A stronger athlete is a more powerful athlete.. You don't neglect any of your other training because you're increasing your strength and punching power by leaps and bounds with weight training -- you do every program...

If you're in training camp you've got 16 hours every day when you're not sleeping.. You've got 14 hours when you're not eating or sleeping. About 10 of those should be directed towards improving yourself as a boxer. You have plenty of time for relaxation and still getting in your strength training, flexibility training, cardio conditioning, plyometrics, whatever new-fangled mental and psychological training you want to do ... and your traditional boxing workout.

What if you aren't a world class fighter? (99.9% of all fighter amateur and pro) Most fighters who aren't getting tens of thousands of dollars every time they fight have a job to support themselves and family. Amateurs don't get paid at all.

I don't like lifting heavy weights for a few reasons.
1. Takes too much energy
2. Takes too much time to recover
3. Trains the muscles to get used to too much rest

I don't know if you have ever done an actual weight lifting routine targeting strength but I have and currently am. It takes a LOT of energy to do it. Heavy compound movements are hard because they recruit a lot of different muscle groups. Nobody is going to have the energy to do 3 sets of 5 on Deadlifts and then box for 3 rounds on each bag and spar. It is setting yourself up for failure. Just because you have strong muscles doesn't mean you can lift heavy ass weights and then do a full training routine. The heavier the weight you lift the more time you need to rest. Also think about it, 3 sets of 5 reps with 3 minute rest in between. How does that translate to the ring? Throwing a hard punch does not equal the energy it takes to do a 1 rep max. A fighter can throw a hard punch over and over for rounds. You CAN'T lift a heavy ass weight over and over for 3 minutes straight.

If a fighter is lighter in weight and needs to bulk up quickly then yes lifting weights can help with weight gain, in my experience.

Bottom line is that NO fighter should be doing low reps high weight. It builds bulky muscles. Look at a power-lifter's body (that isn't pure fat) they have squared muscles. They look like a block. A fighter needs smooth mobile muscles.

[Mr.DW]

Saying Hearns is the hardest hitting welter ever is speculative.. Egidijus Kavaliauskas may hit harder than Hearns.. We don't know because their punching power hasn't been measured.. Hearns hit Ray Leonard with dozens of right hands in their WW fight and couldn't even floor him ... and got knocked out himself. Leonard was floored by other welterweights but not Hearns.. If your 132-pounder example is valid strength indeed increases punching power.. If Floyd Patterson is punching it out with Sonny Liston he'll suffer a KO loss every time at the hands of the bigger, stronger man.. You don't have to be taller -- Mike Tyson was going to punch Michael Spinks out cold, every time, regardless of his form or how tall Spinks was.. Louis was being out-boxed by Billy Conn.. but his greater strength and power won him both fights. Saying 1 attribute increases power a 100 X better than another attribute is something you pulled out of the blue.

Technique, accuracy, and leverage are all important -- so is timing, because if you catch your foe with a jab, straight right, or left hook while he's starting the same punch -- the power is magnified.. But the biggest ingredient is strength.. Strength equals power.. Weakness equals feather dusting.

Ok it is safe to say that Hearns was one of the hardest hitting. If you are disagreeing with that then you dksab. That guy you mentioned hasn't even fought at the top level of the sport.

As far as my example goes of course a stronger muscle is better then a weaker muscle. But the catch is that not every fighter at each weight uses the same technique. The two 132 lbers could be complete novice arm punchers. Joe Louis didn't knock out Conn because he was stronger, he knocked him out because Conn got stupid and went for the knockout. They knew from the beginning that if he did that he would lose.

Strength can increase power but it is useless if you can rarely land a punch. It doesn't take some dynamite out of this world power to knock a guy out cold, any half way decent puncher could knock someone out if they land cleanly. How do you think Mayweather keeps guys honest. He doesn't have one punch power but he is so accurate with 1 punch that it stuns guys.

Mayweather trains with weights also to maintain some of that pop.

You will never catch Mayweather doing low reps heavy weight Deadlifts and Squats.

Jack Dempsey only did calisthenics his entire career and was strong enough to overpower Jess Willard and Luis Firpo. Jess had 65 lbs on him and Firpo had 24.

[IKSRTFO]

Ok it is safe to say that Hearns was one of the hardest hitting. If you are disagreeing with that then you dksab. That guy you mentioned hasn't even fought at the top level of the sport.

As far as my example goes of course a stronger muscle is better then a weaker muscle. But the catch is that not every fighter at each weight uses the same technique. The two 132 lbers could be complete novice arm punchers. Joe Louis didn't knock out Conn because he was stronger, he knocked him out because Conn got stupid and went for the knockout. They knew from the beginning that if he did that he would lose.

Strength can increase power but it is useless if you can rarely land a punch. It doesn't take some dynamite out of this world power to knock a guy out cold, any half way decent puncher could knock someone out if they land cleanly. How do you think Mayweather keeps guys honest. He doesn't have one punch power but he is so accurate with 1 punch that it stuns guys.

Mayweather trains with weights also to maintain some of that pop.

You will never catch Mayweather doing low reps heavy weight Deadlifts and Squats.

Jack Dempsey only did calisthenics his entire career and was strong enough to overpower Jess Willard and Luis Firpo. Jess had 65 lbs on him and Firpo had 24.

Nobody said he did. That isn't even the title of the subject. Just because lifting weights is recommended doesn't automatically means low reps.

[Mr.DW]

Nobody said he did. That isn't even the title of the subject. Just because lifting weights is recommended doesn't automatically means low reps.

This thread has been about getting stronger using weights and that by doing so you will increase punching power. If the goal is to add strength then it would be wrong to lift weights in the high reps. So yes, it does automatically mean low reps or else the training is wrong. You can train in a high rep range and add strength but it would be moronic because the results would be far inferior.

[IKSRTFO]

Nobody said he did. That isn't even the title of the subject. Just because lifting weights is recommended doesn't automatically means low reps.

This thread has been about getting stronger using weights and that by doing so you will increase punching power. If the goal is to add strength then it would be wrong to lift weights in the high reps. So yes, it does automatically mean low reps or else the training is wrong. You can train in a high rep range and add strength but it would be moronic because the results would be far inferior.

You can definetly increase strength by using high reps with moderate reps. Low reps is optimal but as its been stated in this tread, it takes too much out of you. And just because low reps is optimal to just merely gaining strength doesn't necessarily mean that high reps doesn't do it at all. There's also the speed factor and using weights with high reps could in fact increase speed also which in turn, adds more punching power.

[littlepug]

timing, technique and footwork/balance is what creates power, if you want to look good with your top off use weights, if you want to be a serious fighter work on the aforementioned

[IKSRTFO]

timing, technique and footwork/balance is what creates power, if you want to look good with your top off use weights, if you want to be a serious fighter work on the aforementioned

Agree that it does, but that doesn't mean weights are useless nor "serious fighters" won't use them. I guess that means George Foreman wasn't a serious fighter.

http://fighterstrainingprograms.renthan ... g-program/
http://articles.latimes.com/1995-11-14/ ... -foreman/2

Q: Supposedly fighters don't bother with weights. Do you?

A: We'd always said boxers shouldn't lift weights. Now I realize some champion boxer started that rumor. I noticed if I did weights a couple of times a week, I would be able to hit that jab a lot longer. After sparring, everybody's gone


Neither was Klitschko

http://www.muscleandfitness.com/athlete ... -klitschko

" I am not a bodybuilder, but I do lift for power and speed."

[littlepug]

timing, technique and footwork/balance is what creates power, if you want to look good with your top off use weights, if you want to be a serious fighter work on the aforementioned

Agree that it does, but that doesn't mean weights are useless nor "serious fighters" won't use them. I guess that means George Foreman wasn't a serious fighter.

http://fighterstrainingprograms.renthan ... g-program/
http://articles.latimes.com/1995-11-14/ ... -foreman/2

Q: Supposedly fighters don't bother with weights. Do you?

A: We'd always said boxers shouldn't lift weights. Now I realize some champion boxer started that rumor. I noticed if I did weights a couple of times a week, I would be able to hit that jab a lot longer. After sparring, everybody's gone


Neither was Klitschko

http://www.muscleandfitness.com/athlete ... -klitschko

" I am not a bodybuilder, but I do lift for power and speed."

sorry mate i just dont buy it as being as useful for a boxer as conventional boxing training, i never used weights when i was boxing, just hard graft and i was as strong as an ox for my weight

[IKSRTFO]

timing, technique and footwork/balance is what creates power, if you want to look good with your top off use weights, if you want to be a serious fighter work on the aforementioned

Agree that it does, but that doesn't mean weights are useless nor "serious fighters" won't use them. I guess that means George Foreman wasn't a serious fighter.

http://fighterstrainingprograms.renthan ... g-program/
http://articles.latimes.com/1995-11-14/ ... -foreman/2

Q: Supposedly fighters don't bother with weights. Do you?

A: We'd always said boxers shouldn't lift weights. Now I realize some champion boxer started that rumor. I noticed if I did weights a couple of times a week, I would be able to hit that jab a lot longer. After sparring, everybody's gone


Neither was Klitschko

http://www.muscleandfitness.com/athlete ... -klitschko

" I am not a bodybuilder, but I do lift for power and speed."

sorry mate i just dont buy it as being as useful for a boxer as conventional boxing training, i never used weights when i was boxing, just hard graft and i was as strong as an ox for my weight

But were you as strong as Wladmir or Foreman? Or as good? That's the question.

Freddy Roach/Justin Fortune Wild Card training

http://www.muscleandfitness.com/workout ... rs-workout

"You have to train with relevance to your sport," he says. "Boxers have to generate power, so you should still stick to some basic power movements such as squats and deadlifts. Those types of lifts will help you produce power from your legs and core, which is where punching power comes from. Some guys are still stuck back in the '60s with how they train. Our guys will beat those guys every single time."

If Roach asked you to train at Wild Card and Fortune gave you some weights, you wouldn't turn them down and say that would you?

[littlepug]

Agree that it does, but that doesn't mean weights are useless nor "serious fighters" won't use them. I guess that means George Foreman wasn't a serious fighter.

http://fighterstrainingprograms.renthan ... g-program/
http://articles.latimes.com/1995-11-14/ ... -foreman/2

Q: Supposedly fighters don't bother with weights. Do you?

A: We'd always said boxers shouldn't lift weights. Now I realize some champion boxer started that rumor. I noticed if I did weights a couple of times a week, I would be able to hit that jab a lot longer. After sparring, everybody's gone


Neither was Klitschko

http://www.muscleandfitness.com/athlete ... -klitschko

" I am not a bodybuilder, but I do lift for power and speed."

sorry mate i just dont buy it as being as useful for a boxer as conventional boxing training, i never used weights when i was boxing, just hard graft and i was as strong as an ox for my weight

But were you as strong as Wladmir or Foreman? Or as good? That's the question.

Freddy Roach/Justin Fortune Wild Card training

http://www.muscleandfitness.com/workout ... rs-workout

"You have to train with relevance to your sport," he says. "Boxers have to generate power, so you should still stick to some basic power movements such as squats and deadlifts. Those types of lifts will help you produce power from your legs and core, which is where punching power comes from. Some guys are still stuck back in the '60s with how they train. Our guys will beat those guys every single time."

lean skinny guys are the ones to fear, they have the flexability to easily create the angles to attack or defend succesfully, the guys with the bulging muscles are too restricted in their movements and seem to tire easier, as for wether i was as good or strong as wlad and big george, well i would look a right twat if i said yes wouldnt i ? lets just say that the heavies dont really belong in this argument as the size of those guys almost make the division a stand alone sport on its own in terms of what is needed to win ie size over substance

[IKSRTFO]

sorry mate i just dont buy it as being as useful for a boxer as conventional boxing training, i never used weights when i was boxing, just hard graft and i was as strong as an ox for my weight

But were you as strong as Wladmir or Foreman? Or as good? That's the question.

Freddy Roach/Justin Fortune Wild Card training

http://www.muscleandfitness.com/workout ... rs-workout

"You have to train with relevance to your sport," he says. "Boxers have to generate power, so you should still stick to some basic power movements such as squats and deadlifts. Those types of lifts will help you produce power from your legs and core, which is where punching power comes from. Some guys are still stuck back in the '60s with how they train. Our guys will beat those guys every single time."

lean skinny guys are the ones to fear, they have the flexability to easily create the angles to attack or defend succesfully, the guys with the bulging muscles are too restricted in their movements and seem to tire easier, as for wether i was as good or strong as wlad and big george, well i would look a right twat if i said yes wouldnt i ? lets just say that the heavies dont really belong in this argument as the size of those guys almost make the division a stand alone sport on its own in terms of what is needed to win ie size over substance

1. Lifting weights doesn't automatically make you bulky. You can gain strength/power/speed without gaining that much muscle. That shows you aren't that knowledgeable on the subject.

2. Justin Fortune comments that he has his fighters use weights. Most of them are below 154.

3. I'd take professional trainers/boxers saying weights can work for a boxer over someone on a boxing forum who probably isn't even in the boxrec database.

[littlepug]

But were you as strong as Wladmir or Foreman? Or as good? That's the question.

Freddy Roach/Justin Fortune Wild Card training

http://www.muscleandfitness.com/workout ... rs-workout

"You have to train with relevance to your sport," he says. "Boxers have to generate power, so you should still stick to some basic power movements such as squats and deadlifts. Those types of lifts will help you produce power from your legs and core, which is where punching power comes from. Some guys are still stuck back in the '60s with how they train. Our guys will beat those guys every single time."

lean skinny guys are the ones to fear, they have the flexability to easily create the angles to attack or defend succesfully, the guys with the bulging muscles are too restricted in their movements and seem to tire easier, as for wether i was as good or strong as wlad and big george, well i would look a right twat if i said yes wouldnt i ? lets just say that the heavies dont really belong in this argument as the size of those guys almost make the division a stand alone sport on its own in terms of what is needed to win ie size over substance

1. Lifting weights doesn't automatically make you bulky. You can gain strength/power/speed without gaining that much muscle. That shows you aren't that knowledgeable on the subject.

2. Justin Fortune comments that he has his fighters use weights. Most of them are below 154.

3. I'd take professional trainers/boxers saying weights can work for a boxer over someone on a boxing forum who probably isn't even in the boxrec database.

1. I know just don't think its necessary
2. Good for him I still don't think its necessary
3.yes I am

[Mr.DW]

You can definetly increase strength by using high reps with moderate reps. Low reps is optimal but as its been stated in this tread, it takes too much out of you. And just because low reps is optimal to just merely gaining strength doesn't necessarily mean that high reps doesn't do it at all. There's also the speed factor and using weights with high reps could in fact increase speed also which in turn, adds more punching power.

Do you lift weights? Just because you increase the reps doesn't mean it won't take as much out of you.

When lifting weights you have two options. Intense or for longer. Not both. A boxer needs intense training. The only athletes who train for a long time but lower intensity are bodybuilders. That isn't for boxers.

A boxer is going to gain more speed from calisthenics. Moderate reps are for adding muscle not increasing strength. Lifting in any reps range is going to increase strength and size. The difference is the specialization of each rep range. That is why there are rep ranges.

[IKSRTFO]

Weights sure helped Kell Brook increase his power to go toe to toe with GGG before he started getting caught.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlmrtr5J0No

[Kalan]

Jack Dempsey only did calisthenics his entire career and was strong enough to overpower Jess Willard and Luis Firpo. Jess had 65 lbs on him and Firpo had 24.

Dempsey did a lot of stuff other than calisthenics... He swung axes, sledgehammers, sandbags, and other things to increase his strength and power... Willard and Firpo were fat asses with very little ability... Willard was 37, fat as a pig, and hadn't fought in 4 years... Firpo was a punching bag.

[Kalan]

Weight training doesn't waste your time. It works because it makes you stronger.. A stronger athlete is a more powerful athlete.. You don't neglect any of your other training because you're increasing your strength and punching power by leaps and bounds with weight training -- you do every program...

If you're in training camp you've got 16 hours every day when you're not sleeping.. You've got 14 hours when you're not eating or sleeping. About 10 of those should be directed towards improving yourself as a boxer. You have plenty of time for relaxation and still getting in your strength training, flexibility training, cardio conditioning, plyometrics, whatever new-fangled mental and psychological training you want to do ... and your traditional boxing workout.

What if you aren't a world class fighter? (99.9% of all fighter amateur and pro) Most fighters who aren't getting tens of thousands of dollars every time they fight have a job to support themselves and family. Amateurs don't get paid at all.

I don't like lifting heavy weights for a few reasons.
1. Takes too much energy
2. Takes too much time to recover
3. Trains the muscles to get used to too much rest

I don't know if you have ever done an actual weight lifting routine targeting strength but I have and currently am. It takes a LOT of energy to do it. Heavy compound movements are hard because they recruit a lot of different muscle groups. Nobody is going to have the energy to do 3 sets of 5 on Deadlifts and then box for 3 rounds on each bag and spar. It is setting yourself up for failure. Just because you have strong muscles doesn't mean you can lift heavy ass weights and then do a full training routine. The heavier the weight you lift the more time you need to rest. Also think about it, 3 sets of 5 reps with 3 minute rest in between. How does that translate to the ring? Throwing a hard punch does not equal the energy it takes to do a 1 rep max. A fighter can throw a hard punch over and over for rounds. You CAN'T lift a heavy ass weight over and over for 3 minutes straight.

If a fighter is lighter in weight and needs to bulk up quickly then yes lifting weights can help with weight gain, in my experience.

Bottom line is that NO fighter should be doing low reps high weight. It builds bulky muscles. Look at a power-lifter's body (that isn't pure fat) they have squared muscles. They look like a block. A fighter needs smooth mobile muscles.

Well, it's very important not to overdo weight training or tire your muscles out.

Some boxers quit doing weights because they feel tired and their boxing workout doesn't feel good... Remember that getting strong takes months and years and not weeks or 1 training camp... You start very slow and in 7 years you'll be stronger than Hell.. Use the tortoise versus the hare principle - don't try to do it overnight... Say your weight program is 15 weight exercises for biceps, triceps, lower back, abs, obliques, quads, neck etc, and one exercise is dumbbell bench presses for the triceps.

Say you start with 80 pound dumbbells and you can press them 5 times with pretty good form and speed.. It's important to stop the set when your speed and form diminish at all.. Do 1 set every day 6 days a week.. It doesn't seem like you're doing anything or could possibly be getting stronger, but you're acclimating the muscle.. The next week do 2 sets but do them every other day for 3 days a week... in 2 more weeks add another set...you're doing 3 sets... When you work it up to 3 sets of 10 quick reps add weight...try 90lb dumbbells or 100-pounders.. Whatever brings you back down to 5 quick reps... You work that new weight up to 10 reps and then add weight again... Keep a log. When you plateau for a couple months add a rest day -- and start dividing the different exercises into different days.. It's important to monitor your progress and change it up whenever you plateau. Never rep out.. Never go to failure.. Don't tire yourself out.. Use a strength trainer who doesn't push you.. Get rid of any that push you such as "Give me one more rep.. Come on"

[Mr.DW]

Jack Dempsey only did calisthenics his entire career and was strong enough to overpower Jess Willard and Luis Firpo. Jess had 65 lbs on him and Firpo had 24.

Dempsey did a lot of stuff other than calisthenics... He swung axes, sledgehammers, sandbags, and other things to increase his strength and power... Willard and Firpo were fat asses with very little ability... Willard was 37, fat as a pig, and hadn't fought in 4 years... Firpo was a punching bag.

Dempsey said himself that Willard was not fat in their title fight and Firpo sure as hell wasn't either. Firpo may not have been the best fighter but he was definitely no punching bag. Perhaps you have Firpo confused for his opponents.

Sandbags? I can't recall Dempsey stating his use of sandbags but I could be forgetting something. Sure he swung axes and the like, that is terrific for conditioning as well as developing punching power but that is very different from doing 5 sets of 5 or 3 sets of 10 on the bench press, deadlifts, etc. Dempsey would chop down trees for hours in order to get into fighting condition. Especially later in his career.

[Mr.DW]

Well, it's very important not to overdo weight training or tire your muscles out.

Some boxers quit doing weights because they feel tired and their boxing workout doesn't feel good... Remember that getting strong takes months and years and not weeks or 1 training camp... You start very slow and in 7 years you'll be stronger than Hell.. Use the tortoise versus the hare principle - don't try to do it overnight... Say your weight program is 15 weight exercises for biceps, triceps, lower back, abs, obliques, quads, neck etc, and one exercise is dumbbell bench presses for the triceps.

Say you start with 80 pound dumbbells and you can press them 5 times with pretty good form and speed.. It's important to stop the set when your speed and form diminish at all.. Do 1 set every day 6 days a week.. It doesn't seem like you're doing anything or could possibly be getting stronger, but you're acclimating the muscle.. The next week do 2 sets but do them every other day for 3 days a week... in 2 more weeks add another set...you're doing 3 sets... When you work it up to 3 sets of 10 quick reps add weight...try 90lb dumbbells or 100-pounders.. Whatever brings you back down to 5 quick reps... You work that new weight up to 10 reps and then add weight again... Keep a log. When you plateau for a couple months add a rest day -- and start dividing the different exercises into different days.. It's important to monitor your progress and change it up whenever you plateau. Never rep out.. Never go to failure.. Don't tire yourself out.. Use a strength trainer who doesn't push you.. Get rid of any that push you such as "Give me one more rep.. Come on"

That's all fine and dandy for powerlifting and getting stronger over time but what should fighters be doing now? That is why I say calisthenics.

I find that strength trainers who push you are needed. Nobody really know how much they can do. When I'm at the gym and we're doing calisthenics coach says do as many as you can and I find that I do more when coach is standing over me yelling "Down... Down... Down!" I can do 50 straight when exhausted but when alone with only me to push myself I stop after 20 or 30 even though I feel that is the most I can do. It's all psychological.

[Taichi]

Well, it's very important not to overdo weight training or tire your muscles out.

Some boxers quit doing weights because they feel tired and their boxing workout doesn't feel good... Remember that getting strong takes months and years and not weeks or 1 training camp... You start very slow and in 7 years you'll be stronger than Hell.. Use the tortoise versus the hare principle - don't try to do it overnight... Say your weight program is 15 weight exercises for biceps, triceps, lower back, abs, obliques, quads, neck etc, and one exercise is dumbbell bench presses for the triceps.

Say you start with 80 pound dumbbells and you can press them 5 times with pretty good form and speed.. It's important to stop the set when your speed and form diminish at all.. Do 1 set every day 6 days a week.. It doesn't seem like you're doing anything or could possibly be getting stronger, but you're acclimating the muscle.. The next week do 2 sets but do them every other day for 3 days a week... in 2 more weeks add another set...you're doing 3 sets... When you work it up to 3 sets of 10 quick reps add weight...try 90lb dumbbells or 100-pounders.. Whatever brings you back down to 5 quick reps... You work that new weight up to 10 reps and then add weight again... Keep a log. When you plateau for a couple months add a rest day -- and start dividing the different exercises into different days.. It's important to monitor your progress and change it up whenever you plateau. Never rep out.. Never go to failure.. Don't tire yourself out.. Use a strength trainer who doesn't push you.. Get rid of any that push you such as "Give me one more rep.. Come on"

That's all fine and dandy for powerlifting and getting stronger over time but what should fighters be doing now? That is why I say calisthenics.

I find that strength trainers who push you are needed. Nobody really know how much they can do. When I'm at the gym and we're doing calisthenics coach says do as many as you can and I find that I do more when coach is standing over me yelling "Down... Down... Down!" I can do 50 straight when exhausted but when alone with only me to push myself I stop after 20 or 30 even though I feel that is the most I can do. It's all psychological.

DW over the years you've been an apologist for strength training it helps develop intelligence and now as an accomplished scientist your trashing all the scientific studies which took years of dedicated study?

[Tomasino]

lean skinny guys are the ones to fear, they have the flexability to easily create the angles to attack or defend succesfully, the guys with the bulging muscles are too restricted in their movements and seem to tire easier, as for wether i was as good or strong as wlad and big george, well i would look a right twat if i said yes wouldnt i ? lets just say that the heavies dont really belong in this argument as the size of those guys almost make the division a stand alone sport on its own in terms of what is needed to win ie size over substance

1. Lifting weights doesn't automatically make you bulky. You can gain strength/power/speed without gaining that much muscle. That shows you aren't that knowledgeable on the subject.

2. Justin Fortune comments that he has his fighters use weights. Most of them are below 154.

3. I'd take professional trainers/boxers saying weights can work for a boxer over someone on a boxing forum who probably isn't even in the boxrec database.

1. I know just don't think its necessary
2. Good for him I still don't think its necessary
3.yes I am

I was waiting for the 'your opinion is nothing cos your not a former fighter' jibe