Valuevs record was amazing wasn't it. One of the greats of boxing, with Ibeabuchi, Valero and Luis Ortiz. Oh, have you heard of Henry Brussells? Or Phillip Ndou?
Perhaps our friend Kalan can give us an example of Homicide Hank biting someone's ear,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, twice in one fight, when he gets oh so righteous about modern day fighters being so gentlemanly.
Armstrong was only DQ'd twice for a million fouls.. Mike Tyson had 2-points taken or biting -- then he was immediately DQ'd for biting twice... It was outrageous that he wasn't DQ'd immediately, since it was obvious he was trying to foul out...BUT it was a big fight and maybe Mills Lane thought he did that in a fit of temper instead of cold blooded calculation.. He gave Mike a chance.. Holyfield was butting Mike in the eyes a lot and he wasn't responding in kind -- which is what one usually does.
NOBODY ever heard of Henry Brussells or your man Phil... Ike Ibeabuchi, Luis Ortiz, and Edwin Valero are well known to Boxing fans because they never suffered a single defeat in 72 fights while scoring 64 KO wins, and winning 3 World Titles ... Armstrong won 55 of his first 72 fights... Not bad, but far from fabulous.
I refuse to engage with someone who don't respect the old timers and their accomplishments like Henry Armstrong. You can criticize his fights, but don't take anything away from him that he achieved by winning 3 division titles at the same time. There are a lot of things that people don't understand about other old-timers because they never grew up in their time and favor modern fighters that yet to prove themselves. If certain people don't understand how to respect the legacy of the old-time fighters, then I have to say the exact quote from the TV show Game of Thrones whether you are a fan or not, "You know nothing about the accomplishments and legacy of Henry Armstrong". People like me, klompton, Controversial, golden odie, Elmer and others to defend Armstrong's legacy and his memory.
Henry Armstrong is the greatest boxer ever in my book. He lost 21 fights. But he won 152. Not bad for any fighter.
Plus, he beat about 13 or 14 hall of gamers.
Won 3 world crowns in 3 weight classes, jumping from featherweight to welterweight (20 pounds!) to take the crown from a great boxer like Barney Ross? Hmmm....That is impressive!
Add that he at one time, won 27 straight bouts, all by knockout! In that time frame from 1937-40, Homicide Henry went 57-1-1. And that only loss was to Lou Ambers, one of the top 15 greatest lightweight boxers ever. Henry got deducted 2 points in that fight, and still, lost in a close bout.
Add that he made 19 title defenses at welterweight champion. Three of them in a month. Eleven in 1939?
Who does that now? That, to me, it's amazing! If he's not the best fighter, then, who is? At least you gotta say he's a top 3 or 5 of all time in the pound per pound rankings.
I'm going by what I know for sure about Armstrong... He was a dirty fighter who fouled continuously and got away with it... They usually got him friendly referees, but when they didn't he was assessed a lot of points.. You could never get away with ramming your head into anyone or even using you head for leverage that much today.. Anyone with a jab would smash the crap out of Armstrong..
Armstrong lost quite a few because he led with his head.. Dempsey was much more popular than Armstrong and was a mauler.. But at least he didn't butt people in the face every fight, didn't have a zillion points deducted for fouls, and didn't lose as many.. Louis had a great jab and could box.. He didn't try to push and shove you all over the ring with his head, and obviously had a better winning ratio than Armstrong.. Robinson controlled Armstrong every second.. It was a ridiculous mismatch.
That winning streak of Armstrong's was 90% creampuffs. Some of his opponents had more losses than wins. Some had long losing streaks going. Some were used up or on their last legs. They were carefully selected.
Kalan wrote:I'm going by what I know for sure about Armstrong... He was a dirty fighter who fouled continuously and got away with it... They usually got him friendly referees, but when they didn't he was assessed a lot of points.. You could never get away with ramming your head into anyone or even using you head for leverage that much today.. Anyone with a jab would smash the crap out of Armstrong..
Armstrong lost quite a few because he led with his head.. Dempsey was much more popular than Armstrong and was a mauler.. But at least he didn't butt people in the face every fight, didn't have a zillion points deducted for fouls, and didn't lose as many.. Louis had a great jab and could box.. He didn't try to push and shove you all over the ring with his head, and obviously had a better winning ratio than Armstrong.. Robinson controlled Armstrong every second.. It was a ridiculous mismatch.
That winning streak of Armstrong's was 90% creampuffs. Some of his opponents had more losses than wins. Some had long losing streaks going. Some were used up or on their last legs. They were carefully selected.
We'll check Armstrong winning streak and best period in his prime from 1937-40. Let's look carefully at his opponents in that time frame where he went 57-1-1. That's a boxing career in today's fight game.
Kalan wrote:I'm going by what I know for sure about Armstrong... He was a dirty fighter who fouled continuously and got away with it... They usually got him friendly referees, but when they didn't he was assessed a lot of points.. You could never get away with ramming your head into anyone or even using you head for leverage that much today.. Anyone with a jab would smash the crap out of Armstrong..
Armstrong lost quite a few because he led with his head.. Dempsey was much more popular than Armstrong and was a mauler.. But at least he didn't butt people in the face every fight, didn't have a zillion points deducted for fouls, and didn't lose as many.. Louis had a great jab and could box.. He didn't try to push and shove you all over the ring with his head, and obviously had a better winning ratio than Armstrong.. Robinson controlled Armstrong every second.. It was a ridiculous mismatch.
That winning streak of Armstrong's was 90% creampuffs. Some of his opponents had more losses than wins. Some had long losing streaks going. Some were used up or on their last legs. They were carefully selected.
You know less than nothing about Armstrongs career. Please just stop, your a moron. We all know. You've shown us so many times.
Kalan wrote:I'm going by what I know for sure about Armstrong... He was a dirty fighter who fouled continuously and got away with it... They usually got him friendly referees, but when they didn't he was assessed a lot of points.. You could never get away with ramming your head into anyone or even using you head for leverage that much today.. Anyone with a jab would smash the crap out of Armstrong..
Armstrong lost quite a few because he led with his head.. Dempsey was much more popular than Armstrong and was a mauler.. But at least he didn't butt people in the face every fight, didn't have a zillion points deducted for fouls, and didn't lose as many.. Louis had a great jab and could box.. He didn't try to push and shove you all over the ring with his head, and obviously had a better winning ratio than Armstrong.. Robinson controlled Armstrong every second.. It was a ridiculous mismatch.
That winning streak of Armstrong's was 90% creampuffs. Some of his opponents had more losses than wins. Some had long losing streaks going. Some were used up or on their last legs. They were carefully selected.
You know less than nothing about Armstrongs career. Please just stop, your a moron. We all know. You've shown us so many times.
Elmer and Tomasino, don't listen to this person, who knows nothing about respecting Armstrong's accomplishments, former and future champions and hall of famers that secure his legacy because he will never understand why Homicide Hank is so great.
Nino Benvenuti had a 72-1 record prior to losing his rematch with Emile Griffith... Few if any have Benvenuti among the ATG Middleweight Champions though he beat Sandro Mazzinghi twice, won his trilogy with Griffith, and knocked out Luis Rodriguez. Benvenuti actually had more successful Middleweight Title Defenses than Robinson, but he had an awkward style and lacked skills.. When he finally met a good Middleweight in Monzon he got knocked out.
Arnold Gjergjaj was 29-0 prior to fighting David Haye who is a real good Heavyweight.. I'm sure Gjergjaj could have gone 60-0 fighting the caliber of fighters he was fighting.. Haye beat him so easily it was ridiculous, just like Armstrong had no chance in the world when he fought Ray Robinson.
It is hard to think of a fighter who can match what Henry Armstrong did during the years of 1937 and 1938. He also had a fine year during 1939 while losing just one time, that loss being to Lou Ambers, a truly great lightweight. Edwin Valero didn't face anyone close to being in Ambers' class.
During 1934, Armstrong was regarded as a fine fighter in California boxing circles. Yet it was reported that Armstrong received a purse of only $75. for his scheduled eight-round main event with Joe Sanchez in Ventura, California on September 7, 1934. Despite being only a club fighter, Sanchez was regarded as one of the best boxers from Ventura County and a terrific series of bouts with Baby Palmore, another boxer from Ventura County, during the 1930s. Sanchez reportedly had an offer to fight in a main event at the most successful and stable California boxing venue of the time, the Hollywood Legion Stadium, if he got a win or a draw in the bout with Armstrong. If such an offer was made to Sanchez, it is very ironic because Armstrong and other black fighters were not allowed to box at the Hollywood Legion Stadium at the time.
In his bout with Armstrong, Sanchez was knocked down four times during the first round and later sustained a swelling on one eye which hampered his vision. Referee Charley Randolph stopped the bout in fourth round due to the swelling on the eye and the fact that Sanchez absorbed a lot of punishment. I have read that Sanchez was killed during the Battle of the Bulge while serving in the U.S. Army during World War II.
- Chuck Johnston
Last edited by Chuck1052 on 18 Sep 2016, 01:18, edited 1 time in total.
Nino Benvenuti had a 72-1 record prior to losing his rematch with Emile Griffith... Few if any have Benvenuti among the ATG Middleweight Champions though he beat Sandro Mazzinghi twice, won his trilogy with Griffith, and knocked out Luis Rodriguez. Benvenuti actually had more successful Middleweight Title Defenses than Robinson, but he had an awkward style and lacked skills.. When he finally met a good Middleweight in Monzon he got knocked out.
Arnold Gjergjaj was 29-0 prior to fighting David Haye who is a real good Heavyweight.. I'm sure Gjergjaj could have gone 60-0 fighting the caliber of fighters he was fighting.. Haye beat him so easily it was ridiculous, just like Armstrong had no chance in the world when he fought Ray Robinson.
"Records can be extremely deceiving..." You finally figured that out? Remember that in the future when you want to prop up some modern fighter that like who or rip some old timer who fought brutal competition.
Benvenuti lacked skills? What in the world are you talking about?
Watch Benvenuti's fights with Monzon... Benvenuti had his head in the air and was extremely easy to hit with right hands... His stance was all messed up... Griffith almost knocked him out with a big right in their 1st fight... I knew Monzon was going to KO Benvenuti and finish him... Monzon was the first really great right hand puncher Benvenuti ever faced -- so that 72-1 record was indeed very deceptive.
Armstrong was very easy to hit with lefts AND rights -- just like Joe Frazier... Frazier never fought a single big, tall, strong, rock solid, powerful punching Heavyweight until he met George Foreman... Frazier got exposed big time and looked like a punching bag with ears.
Just like Armstrong would have looked had he ever ventured into a ring with anyone like Edwin Valero---who defeated and knocked out all of his opponents... Some of Valero's victims were a lot better than some of the less than gifted fighters who beat Armstrong -- who fought 30 fights he couldn't win. That's 1 of every 6 fights he had.. That's a good record -- but it's not 27-0 with 27 KO wins which is great... When Armstrong had 27 fights he only managed 19 wins. He didn't accomplish anything and was fighting tomato cans.. Edwin Valero was an undefeated 2-Division Super Featherweight and Lightweight World Champion who unfortunately was emotionally compromised by a horrific motorcycle accident and had extensive brain surgery and skull repair work done in the aftermath.. That happened well before his professional career even started but it didn't stop him from being a great fighter, it just messed with his emotions... No other boxer in Fistic History was ever a 2-Division World Champion with 27 KO wins in his first 27 fights.
How many famed southpaws did Armstrong face in his 181 fights??? ... In his 96th and 99th fights Armstrong fought guys who were 0-2 and 1-1 respectively.. I don't think those were appropriate opponents, do you??? What would happen if GGG, Thurman, Crawford, Kovalev, or Joshua padded their resumes with guys who had records like that??? They would never get away with it. In Armstrong's time things were 10 X as corrupt as they are today. Armstrong was matched like Sean O'Grady -- who ended his career 81-5 with 70 KO's and an ex-World Champion although he couldn't fight or box very well.. Armstrong was better than O'Grady, I'll grant that.. Watch Armstrong's fights on YouTube. You'll see a wide open guy who head butted and led with his head continuously. He took a zillion punches. When he ever fought a puncher he had no chance in Hell.. About the only puncher he ever fought was his friend Robinson, where he couldn't do a damned thing and didn't belong in that ring.
It is more difficult compiling records of the fighters who were active during Henry Armstrong's era. In order to compile records of such fighters, one often has to look at numerous old newspapers on microfilm. At times, it is very difficult to find results of certain bouts because the archives of certain newspapers often are not complete or the newspapers didn't simply didn't have reports of even boxing shows in their locales. As a result, it is probable that many fighters of Armstrong's era had more bouts than what is shown on their records on BoxRec.
