Will we ever see GGG vs Canelo ?

kbackup408 · Post by **kbackup408** » 10 Sep 2016, 03:38

Oscar comes out with some real breeze but what he said this week just sealed the envelope for me, when he said we will offer GGG a fixed purse was an indirect way of saying they will never fight Golovkin

What do you guys think will this fight ever happened or is it just boxing politics ?

Enlightened-One · Post by **Enlightened-One** » 10 Sep 2016, 06:18

It seems that De La Hoya and Loeffler already have a verbal agreement for the GGG-Canelo fight to take place September 16th, 2017.

From a commercial perspective, it’s in everyone’s interests, barring the fight fans, to delay this bout for as long as possible in order to maximise the potential PPV revenue of this eagerly-awaited event, because there’s no denying that the demand for this contest is rapidly growing.

It seems that HBO, K2 & GBP have learned from the Mayweather-Pacquiao super-fight and will try to emulate the commercial success of that event, which requires employing a strategy of frustrating the fans enormously, whilst encouraging heated debates and ludicrous claims of “cowardice”, “ducking” etc., as it helps market the fight.

There are no “politics” involved in this bout, because K2 and GBP (now) predominantly work with HBO, coupled with the fact that GGG and Canelo both have exclusive contracts with that network. Also, HBO’s currently appalling boxing budget problems will probably be resolved by next year, assuming Time Warner meets its profitability targets by the end of 2016.

Boxers are “PRIZE fighters” not “PRIDE fighters”, which means that money is the primary factor that determines whether big fights take place or not. So please don’t buy into all the “cowardice” nonsense hype, because those sort of antics are merely a marketing ploy to exploit merely casual boxing observers with limited knowledge and deep pockets.

lazboy · Post by **lazboy** » 10 Sep 2016, 06:52

Enlightened-One wrote:It seems that De La Hoya and Loeffler already have a verbal agreement for the GGG-Canelo fight to take place September 16th, 2017.

From a commercial perspective, it’s in everyone’s interests, barring the fight fans, to delay this bout for as long as possible in order to maximise the potential PPV revenue of this eagerly-awaited event, because there’s no denying that the demand for this contest is rapidly growing.

It seems that HBO, K2 & GBP have learned from the Mayweather-Pacquiao super-fight and will try to emulate the commercial success of that event, which requires employing a strategy of frustrating the fans enormously, whilst encouraging heated debates and ludicrous claims of “cowardice”, “ducking” etc., as it helps market the fight.

There are no “politics” involved in this bout, because K2 and GBP (now) predominantly work with HBO, coupled with the fact that GGG and Canelo both have exclusive contracts with that network. Also, HBO’s currently appalling boxing budget problems will probably be resolved by next year, assuming Time Warner meets its profitability targets by the end of 2016.

Boxers are “PRIZE fighters” not “PRIDE fighters”, which means that money is the primary factor that determines whether big fights take place or not. So please don’t buy into all the “cowardice” nonsense hype, because those sort of antics are merely a marketing ploy to exploit merely casual boxing observers with limited knowledge and deep pockets.

So basically what your saying is that immense greed is whats at play here. GBP believe that by delaying this fight they will get a much greater return. Unfortunately for them and rightly so in my opinion they have underestimated the power of social media and their ppv results and the popularity of their fighter Canelo is suffering and will suffer with his next bout. GBP has contradicted their moto of "the best fighting the best" and has shown zero respect for the boxing public. Canelo, the multi-millionaire dollar face of boxing, who has already amassed millions of dollars as with GBP up to this point, has sacrificed his reputation for a risky postponed tentative fight date with GGG. It does beg questions as to why this has occurred. There is serious grounds for debate regarding cowardice, ducking (what you claim is nonsense) as this fight could have taken place and a rematch could be happening and have been financially beneficial yet again. If it is a marketing ploy, their marketing ploy is failing IMO. I don't believe the fight will happen unless what I predicted comes true and Canelo becomes desperate. Then it will be difficult to negotiate because GGG, if he continues his spectacular win streak, will, due to his significantly rising stock, become the A side but Canelo the diva will believe he's the A side.

Enlightened-One · Post by **Enlightened-One** » 10 Sep 2016, 07:14

lazboy wrote:So basically what your saying is that immense greed is whats at play here. GBP believe that by delaying this fight they will get a much greater return.

Canelo is the A-side fighter and he is adopting the very same hype-building villainous role that Mayweather played when Floyd helped build-up the interest for his bout with Pacquiao.

The general public need fighters to play a theatrical role to help make PPV events a commercial success, so someone must always play the part of the stereotypical "cowardly bad guy" (i.e. Canelo) versus the "heroic hugely impressive good guy" (i.e. Golovkin).

So if you want to wholeheartedly buy into the WWE-style publicity stunts/antics, then that's your prerogative, but it's prudent to appreciate the fact that professional boxing is a business, involving many decision-makers, where the main goal is to generate revenue rather than to simply achieve sporting glory.

Simply put, the GGG-Canelo bout will be made when there is enough money to satisfy all interested parties.

kbackup408 · Post by **kbackup408** » 10 Sep 2016, 07:44

Enlightened-One wrote:It seems that De La Hoya and Loeffler already have a verbal agreement for the GGG-Canelo fight to take place September 16th, 2017.

From a commercial perspective, it’s in everyone’s interests, barring the fight fans, to delay this bout for as long as possible in order to maximise the potential PPV revenue of this eagerly-awaited event, because there’s no denying that the demand for this contest is rapidly growing.

It seems that HBO, K2 & GBP have learned from the Mayweather-Pacquiao super-fight and will try to emulate the commercial success of that event, which requires employing a strategy of frustrating the fans enormously, whilst encouraging heated debates and ludicrous claims of “cowardice”, “ducking” etc., as it helps market the fight.

There are no “politics” involved in this bout, because K2 and GBP (now) predominantly work with HBO, coupled with the fact that GGG and Canelo both have exclusive contracts with that network. Also, HBO’s currently appalling boxing budget problems will probably be resolved by next year, assuming Time Warner meets its profitability targets by the end of 2016.

Boxers are “PRIZE fighters” not “PRIDE fighters”, which means that money is the primary factor that determines whether big fights take place or not. So please don’t buy into all the “cowardice” nonsense hype, because those sort of antics are merely a marketing ploy to exploit merely casual boxing observers with limited knowledge and deep pockets.

Cheers for the breakdown mate, I think as boxing fans we sometimes forget it is a business you can't box for all your life that one fight can secure you for life

(Our friend Maidana would agree haha)

squiggy · Post by **squiggy** » 10 Sep 2016, 07:53

Contrary to popular capitalism, 'business' does not require greed. They could haul in a ton of profit by putting that fight on tomorrow; hence, "it's a business" is not a satisfying explanation for why they don't. "Hey guys, they're just trying to bleed us all us dry as possible, no big deal."

Crease · Post by **Crease** » 10 Sep 2016, 08:03

Enlightened-One wrote:It seems that De La Hoya and Loeffler already have a verbal agreement for the GGG-Canelo fight to take place September 16th, 2017.

Yeah, I have read that too. But I think it is more likely to be Cinco De Mayo weekend next year. They always try to line up a big fight for Canelo every year. None would be bigger than this.

Enlightened-One · Post by **Enlightened-One** » 10 Sep 2016, 08:12

squiggy wrote:Contrary to popular capitalism, 'business' does not require greed. They could haul in a ton of profit by putting that fight on tomorrow; hence, "it's a business" is not a satisfying explanation for why they don't. "Hey guys, they're just trying to bleed us all us dry as possible, no big deal."

Manny Pacquiao rejected a $40m offer to face Floyd Mayweather Jr. in 2013. The bout got delayed, with the Filipino legend subsequently receiving a payday that was four times that amount.

Similarly, Mayweather rejected a similar offer from Top Rank a couple of years or so prior, with Bob Arum criticising Floyd's "laughable" demands of a minimum guaranteed $100m payday, but four years later, he more than trebled that amount.

Whilst the Canelo-GGG bout would be a huge event if it was staged tomorrow, by September 2017, its financial revenue generation potential could double current expectations.

Boxing is a business, not a charity, which means that the main goal is to maximise revenue.

As fight fans, we're seemingly powerless to "force" big fights to happen if all the interested parties aren't being paid what they believe they're worth... or what they're convinced they can potentially earn.

lazboy · Post by **lazboy** » 10 Sep 2016, 09:18

It seems like you are convinced that this fight will take place in 2017 based on a verbal discussion that may not have any contractual merit. As you are convinced that this is the case your argument is aligned to it. Yet if the fight is not agreed upon then....everything you hAve said looses its merit.

furthermore it seems as though you are ignoring or excusing the greed in which canelo and co is showing which is not a attractive quality. Perhaps you are excusing this as canelo is putting his life on the line by being a professional boxer but have you considered his choice of opponents. Amir khan, not even a natural welterweight could have been seriously hurt and or killed in that fight. The knockout was disgusting. Defending canelo for the sake of money and business while he racks up wins over undermatched victims doesn't bode well with me. The Critisism he has faced is justified. Who knows if the fight will happen in 2017. I think that if ggg is doing well it won't. If they are serious about it and it is a marketing ploy as you say they are taking a serious risks. Both fighters could loose momentum, a year is a long time.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 10 Sep 2016, 09:25

Only if Golovkin looks like he has deteriorated.

If he comfortably beats Brook & continues in the same vein, this fight will not happen this side of Golvkin's 40th birthday!

Enlightened-One · Post by **Enlightened-One** » 10 Sep 2016, 09:31

lazboy wrote:It seems like you are convinced that this fight will take place in 2017 based on a verbal discussion that may not have any contractual merit. As you are convinced that this is the case your argument is aligned to it. Yet if the fight is not agreed upon then....everything you hAve said looses its merit.

furthermore it seems as though you are ignoring or excusing the greed in which canelo and co is showing which is not a attractive quality. Perhaps you are excusing this as canelo is putting his life on the line by being a professional boxer but have you considered his choice of opponents. Amir khan, not even a natural welterweight could have been seriously hurt and or killed in that fight. The knockout was disgusting. Defending canelo for the sake of money and business while he racks up wins over undermatched victims doesn't bode well with me. The Critisism he has faced is justified. Who knows if the fight will happen in 2017. I think that if ggg is doing well it won't. If they are serious about it and it is a marketing ploy as you say they are taking a serious risks. Both fighters could loose momentum, a year is a long time.

There's no guarantee that the GGG-Canelo bout will take place in 2017, because if next year's market research barometers indicates rapidly increasing demand, instead of merely plateauing, then the fight may be pushed back a year.

In terms of the "Canelo criticism", for sporting reasons, I understand it, but financial motivations always trumps any sporting goals.

If I was to show empathy, if I was wearing Canelo's shoes, I'd consider a $20m+ payday as adequate compensation for receiving widespread criticism of "cowardice", regardless as to whether the "greedy" personality trait was considered unattractive.

MachoTime · Post by **MachoTime** » 10 Sep 2016, 10:52

Enlightened-One wrote:It seems that De La Hoya and Loeffler already have a verbal agreement for the GGG-Canelo fight to take place September 16th, 2017.

From a commercial perspective, it’s in everyone’s interests, barring the fight fans, to delay this bout for as long as possible in order to maximise the potential PPV revenue of this eagerly-awaited event, because there’s no denying that the demand for this contest is rapidly growing.

It seems that HBO, K2 & GBP have learned from the Mayweather-Pacquiao super-fight and will try to emulate the commercial success of that event, which requires employing a strategy of frustrating the fans enormously, whilst encouraging heated debates and ludicrous claims of “cowardice”, “ducking” etc., as it helps market the fight.

There are no “politics” involved in this bout, because K2 and GBP (now) predominantly work with HBO, coupled with the fact that GGG and Canelo both have exclusive contracts with that network. Also, HBO’s currently appalling boxing budget problems will probably be resolved by next year, assuming Time Warner meets its profitability targets by the end of 2016.

Boxers are “PRIZE fighters” not “PRIDE fighters”, which means that money is the primary factor that determines whether big fights take place or not. So please don’t buy into all the “cowardice” nonsense hype, because those sort of antics are merely a marketing ploy to exploit merely casual boxing observers with limited knowledge and deep pockets.

Winning a title at a catchweight. The 160 linear championship. Then vacating the coveted WBC title belt. I guess the ludicrous claims of ducking is already covered by default then...So how can you ignore the claims of ducking and say it's exclusively a marketing strategy..

BitPlayer · Post by **BitPlayer** » 10 Sep 2016, 11:07

I'm sure we will some time, though it may only be once GGG is past it. I'm still hoping we get it sooner.

boxing_rocks · Post by **boxing_rocks** » 10 Sep 2016, 11:11

Golovkin says that he is much more interested in BJS, as he has the remaining belt. With DLH talking about making a fixed offer to Golovkin instead of PPV sharing, their fight may not happen unless Canelo wins the belt from BJS. GGG may keep fighting in England: BJS, Eubank, DeGale, Callum Smith. They are also talking about Ramirez.

Enlightened-One · Post by **Enlightened-One** » 10 Sep 2016, 11:34

MachoTime wrote:
Enlightened-One wrote:It seems that De La Hoya and Loeffler already have a verbal agreement for the GGG-Canelo fight to take place September 16th, 2017.

From a commercial perspective, it’s in everyone’s interests, barring the fight fans, to delay this bout for as long as possible in order to maximise the potential PPV revenue of this eagerly-awaited event, because there’s no denying that the demand for this contest is rapidly growing.

It seems that HBO, K2 & GBP have learned from the Mayweather-Pacquiao super-fight and will try to emulate the commercial success of that event, which requires employing a strategy of frustrating the fans enormously, whilst encouraging heated debates and ludicrous claims of “cowardice”, “ducking” etc., as it helps market the fight.

There are no “politics” involved in this bout, because K2 and GBP (now) predominantly work with HBO, coupled with the fact that GGG and Canelo both have exclusive contracts with that network. Also, HBO’s currently appalling boxing budget problems will probably be resolved by next year, assuming Time Warner meets its profitability targets by the end of 2016.

Boxers are “PRIZE fighters” not “PRIDE fighters”, which means that money is the primary factor that determines whether big fights take place or not. So please don’t buy into all the “cowardice” nonsense hype, because those sort of antics are merely a marketing ploy to exploit merely casual boxing observers with limited knowledge and deep pockets.
Winning a title at a catchweight. The 160 linear championship. Then vacating the coveted WBC title belt. I guess the ludicrous claims of ducking is already covered by default then...So how can you ignore the claims of ducking and say it's exclusively a marketing strategy..

GBP forced Canelo to vacate his world title rather than allowing the WBC to dictate the terms (i.e. the purse split and deadlines) of the GGG fight.

Mayweather adopted a similar ploy when he threatened to vacate his WBC 147lb belt when they made Manny Pacquiao his mandatory challenger. Bob Arum took the Filipino down the WBO route rather than engage in the WBC's purse bids, as they wanted more than the statutory 25% challenger share of the purse.

Sergey Kovalev also withdrew from the WBC's purse bid and abandoned his mandatory challenger status to Adonis Stevenson, because of his exclusive contract with HBO. He he signed HBO's exclusive contract after the WBC made him the mandatory challenger.

Miguel Cotto vacated his WBC World middleweight title because he didn't want to pay their $300K sanctioning fee!

It's no coincidence that history keeps repeating itself!

These are business decisions, but it's more interesting to perpetuate a myth of "cowardice" to help build-up a "grudge match" take on things, as this narrative is more emotive in nature.

I think GBP are hoping that any anti-Canelo sentiment will encourage casual fight fans to part with their hard-earned money in the hope that they can see him lose to GGG.

The real financial and political side of boxing is boring, so honesty is rarely the best policy. Hatred and outrage sells!

boxing_rocks · Post by **boxing_rocks** » 10 Sep 2016, 13:33

First of all, nobody could "force" Canelo if he really wanted to fight. They persuaded him to do what he really wanted to do.

Also, if it was purely business decision, then why aren't they talking about fighting Golovkin next spring?

Enlightened-One · Post by **Enlightened-One** » 10 Sep 2016, 13:41

boxing_rocks wrote:First of all, nobody could "force" Canelo if he really wanted to fight. They persuaded him to do what he really wanted to do.

Also, if it was purely business decision, then why aren't they talking about fighting Golovkin next spring?

Read my first post in this thread.

Cent0089 · Post by **Cent0089** » 10 Sep 2016, 14:09

they both have fights before them. Anyway, if GGG will fight Jacobs next and Canelo will fight Andrade/Charlos/Williams next... i have no problem with that

boxing_rocks · Post by **boxing_rocks** » 10 Sep 2016, 16:06

Cent0089 wrote:they both have fights before them. Anyway, if GGG will fight Jacobs next and Canelo will fight Andrade/Charlos/Williams next... i have no problem with that

Canelo will not fight a slick opponent. He always looks lost against them.

Noxy · Post by **Noxy** » 10 Sep 2016, 16:07

More likely than not

ClivePatrickLyons · Post by **ClivePatrickLyons** » 12 Sep 2016, 02:29

NO......................and if they do i'll watch the news to see who won i'm over Canelo

boxing_rocks · Post by **boxing_rocks** » 13 Sep 2016, 17:00

It looks like Golovkin still looked too scary for Canelo:

http://www.boxingnews24.com/2016/09/can ... -154-time/?

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 15 Sep 2016, 10:27

boxing_rocks wrote:It looks like Golovkin still looked too scary for Canelo:

http://www.boxingnews24.com/2016/09/can ... -154-time/?

I'm rapidly going off Canelo.

He's a great fighter & all, but he's looking like a right pu$$y at the moment.

I might have to go to Boots & buy him so nappies just in case he soils himself!

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 15 Sep 2016, 11:54

I think if it does happen, it will be in 3-4 years, when GGG is in decline, and Canelo's run out of options for big paydays.

If Canelo continues to generate lots of money without fighting GGG, it may well never happen. GB will want an absolutely huge payday to face GGG.

gilgamesh · Post by **gilgamesh** » 15 Sep 2016, 11:55

Probably. But if it doesn't happen next year, I don't care if we ever see it.

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