GGG-We Witnessed The First Signs of Decline

[gilgamesh]

He's still operating at his peak level or very close to it I'd say. He's so much better than the other Middleweights by leaps and bounds that he'd have to slip quite a long distance before guys are able to beat him I'd say.

[Tanzio]

I think that people are giving 3G too much credit for allowing Brook to punch him. He got nailed multiple times when he was in full defensive mode. The shots Brook landed more than once stopped 3G's advance. He felt some of those shots. Furthermore, 3G showed signs of gassing or resting in the 2nd half of rounds giving Brook an opportunity to score (and win round 2).

I think that 3G is showing some signs of age. If a solid jawed, hard punching, skilled younger opponent can whether a round like the 5th v Brook, that boxer could trouble 3G in the later rounds.

Also, I think that 3G could be muscled by larger opponents at 168 plus.

I saw no evidence of sagging stamina, if he was having problems, odd that he came on like a train in the 5th round.

3G was going hard for the finish. What if the towel was not thrown in and Brook started firing back for the end of the round. He had done so in previous rounds with considerable success. 3G came at him both barrels and could not get a blown up welter staggered or down.

What if that was a top level SMW, and he came back firing top level SMW power shots?

That is a series of what ifs but I think we glimpsed a chink in 3G's armor late in 3 of those rounds.

[crusader]

GGG was hardly going balls to the wall, all out. He was unloading powershots in a measured manner, and we've seen him throw heavy deep into fights before (e.g. Murray).

I didn't see these stamina issues you keep going on about. He was showing no signs of slowing at all..

[Tanzio]

GGG was hardly going balls to the wall, all out. He was unloading powershots in a measured manner, and we've seen him throw heavy deep into fights before (e.g. Murray).

I didn't see these stamina issues you keep going on about. He was showing no signs of slowing at all..

Then he should not have lost a round.

3G was at his best v Lemieux. I think that he has shown "the first signs of decline." That does not mean I think that he is beatable at 160 or below, although I would give Jacobs a very remote chance of catching 3G cold.

[crusader]

I meant he was showing no signs of slowing stamina-wise in the Brook fight. Some people just assume that he would seriously tire if the fight went on, but he kept throwing strong into the later rounds against Murray and admittedly further back against Ouma (who pushed him more than Brook did).

Willie Monroe had just as much success after getting dropped as Brook did IMO....similar fight, with GGG clearly not showing the same respect he did to the much harder hitting Lemeiux.

With his fast hands and good power Danny may be the biggest offensive threat to GGG at 160, although I don't have much faith in his chin and also wonder if he'll be quickly put into a shell; he sometimes fights like a guy who is very weary of getting hit, maybe due to all his experiences being dropped and/or hurt.

[fanman]

Seems the board consensus is that ggg gave a peak performance against lemeiux ... I didnt see decline, but the fastest, most skilled opponent giving him a bit of a good fight for a couple of rounds.
Ggg is still on top of the world and it will take a great performance to beat him ... With his power he can neutralise any top contender even if he does start to slip.

[Pureist]

Big drama show, put on for the fans, if brook was able to hurt him then he would have boxed, not hunted as he did, he did the same with geale and Monroe, brook just landed more than those guys, still the same end result

[jamesmcdonnell]

Seems the board consensus is that ggg gave a peak performance against lemeiux ... I didnt see decline, but the fastest, most skilled opponent giving him a bit of a good fight for a couple of rounds.
Ggg is still on top of the world and it will take a great performance to beat him ... With his power he can neutralise any top contender even if he does start to slip.

brook had better skill than Lemiuex, but way less firepower, hence the different approaches, GGG just overwhelmed him with aggression.

[IRLangmaid25]

For me the power and nous are still there, although Golovkin was a little slack at times in terms of his defence. Plus he has been quite lucky in terms of injuries so he looked fine for me.

[SFW]

Looking back I think I underrated Brook and overestimated GGG's focus for this fight. He looked sloppy, and showed a lack of discipline throwing wild like he did. The stamina issue is a myth, as is any punch Brook landed having a huge impact. It's like if Golovkin steps back in an exchange, or gets hit hard on the shoulder, people act like he's slipping. It's crazy. Watch it again, Kell was missing a lot. He's got 20,000 screaming after every missed or blocked shot, that can have an effect. But I do think it could have been even through 4, Kell fought well, true champion. Unfortunately that's only a third of the fight, and he was fading fast. GGG was getting stronger, and Kell had no chance of slowing him down much less stopping him. Obviously the eye injury was significant, Kell still brought it like a warrior. Great fight while it lasted.

[boxing_rocks]

Looking back I think I underrated Brook and overestimated GGG's focus for this fight. He looked sloppy, and showed a lack of discipline throwing wild like he did. The stamina issue is a myth, as is any punch Brook landed having a huge impact. It's like if Golovkin steps back in an exchange, or gets hit hard on the shoulder, people act like he's slipping. It's crazy. Watch it again, Kell was missing a lot. He's got 20,000 screaming after every missed or blocked shot, that can have an effect. But I do think it could have been even through 4, Kell fought well, true champion. Unfortunately that's only a third of the fight, and he was fading fast. GGG was getting stronger, and Kell had no chance of slowing him down much less stopping him. Obviously the eye injury was significant, Kell still brought it like a warrior. Great fight while it lasted.

He wasn't sloppy - he was having fun. Golovkin is actually a "bad guy" who loves to beat and "break" people in the ring. When he was younger, he also enjoyed doing that outside of the ring. He had to be disciplined against Lemieux, and Wade fight didn't last long enough. So, Golovkin was hungry for a real fight. Fighting "the right way" with controlling a distance with a jab and not throwing wild punches would be no fun for him and would prove that the fight was a mismatch.

[BAD INTENTIONS]

Brook is a top 3 at 147.
For the last 10 years, you had to be really good to be top 3 at 147.
This is not Khan we're talking about who hasn't been top 3 since losing to a 139 pound Garcia in 2012.

For some reason, people are forgetting we are talking about a very good welterweight.
Brook was supposed to land on GGG. He was supposed to be faster.
You guys do get that right?

Bottom line, GGG didn't look like god against a very good fighter and it's a problem.
I think the stoppage was excellent because people without blinders could see Brook breaking down, in a bad way.
You guys want GGG to fight like Holyfield, but come out clean like Floyd

GGG fought a live smaller man. It looked like a good fight.
Perhaps he should have fought a wet paper bag (Khan) like that pop star (Canelo).

[SFW]

Looking back I think I underrated Brook and overestimated GGG's focus for this fight. He looked sloppy, and showed a lack of discipline throwing wild like he did. The stamina issue is a myth, as is any punch Brook landed having a huge impact. It's like if Golovkin steps back in an exchange, or gets hit hard on the shoulder, people act like he's slipping. It's crazy. Watch it again, Kell was missing a lot. He's got 20,000 screaming after every missed or blocked shot, that can have an effect. But I do think it could have been even through 4, Kell fought well, true champion. Unfortunately that's only a third of the fight, and he was fading fast. GGG was getting stronger, and Kell had no chance of slowing him down much less stopping him. Obviously the eye injury was significant, Kell still brought it like a warrior. Great fight while it lasted.

He wasn't sloppy - he was having fun. Golovkin is actually a "bad guy" who loves to beat and "break" people in the ring. When he was younger, he also enjoyed doing that outside of the ring. He had to be disciplined against Lemieux, and Wade fight didn't last long enough. So, Golovkin was hungry for a real fight. Fighting "the right way" with controlling a distance with a jab and not throwing wild punches would be no fun for him and would prove that the fight was a mismatch.

By his own admission he was sloppy, and rated himself 3-4 out of 10.. I don't disagree that he made it exciting, just so happens that an all out attack was the right tactic against a smaller opponent.

[lazboy]

Brook is a top 3 at 147.
For the last 10 years, you had to be really good to be top 3 at 147.
This is not Khan we're talking about who hasn't been top 3 since losing to a 139 pound Garcia in 2012.

For some reason, people are forgetting we are talking about a very good welterweight.
Brook was supposed to land on GGG. He was supposed to be faster.
You guys do get that right?

Bottom line, GGG didn't look like god against a very good fighter and it's a problem.
I think the stoppage was excellent because people without blinders could see Brook breaking down, in a bad way.
You guys want GGG to fight like Holyfield, but come out clean like Floyd

GGG fought a live smaller man. It looked like a good fight.
Perhaps he should have fought a wet paper bag (Khan) like that pop star (Canelo).

Perfect I couldn't have said it better myself. Well spoken sir. Good day to you sir, good day.

[caldo2025]

A lot of people disagree with my "Decline" notion and think that it's all in my head. Again, i'll be perfectly fine with being dead wrong on this as I'd love to see GGG fight at this level for 5 more years if we can. Floyd did it until almost 40 and he's a fighter that made a living on timing...probably made a living of plunging a syringe into his ass full of PEDS too and we know GGG is drug free so who knows if he could duplicate Floyd's efforts.

I guess the best question to come out of the GGG/Brook fight is HOW THE HECK COULD BROOK BE WINNING ON THE CARDS AT THE POINT OF THE STOPPAGE? How is it even possible that could happen. Those judges should lose their pencils for that pathetic showing.

[SFW]

Yeah, Brook ahead on the cards, hometown cooking was in the works. 2nd round was his, he had other moments that were great but probably not enough to take any other round. Lucky there wasn't a knockdown scored as well.

[caldo2025]

Yeah, Brook ahead on the cards, hometown cooking was in the works. 2nd round was his, he had other moments that were great but probably not enough to take any other round. Lucky there wasn't a knockdown scored as well.

I guess I could see the 38-38 scorecards that two of the judges had but that third judge gave GGG only the 3rd round. That's criminal. GGG had Brook hurt bad in the first as well. And yes, that was definitely a clear knockdown. This could have been a very ugly night for boxing had this one gone to the cards.

[SFW]

Yeah, Brook ahead on the cards, hometown cooking was in the works. 2nd round was his, he had other moments that were great but probably not enough to take any other round. Lucky there wasn't a knockdown scored as well.

I guess I could see the 38-38 scorecards that two of the judges had but that third judge gave GGG only the 3rd round. That's criminal. GGG had Brook hurt bad in the first as well. And yes, that was definitely a clear knockdown. This could have been a very ugly night for boxing had this one gone to the cards.

I think Abel and Gennady figured as much, and the knockout was their only plan. It's still even hard to see it being even at 38-38, because the only good effective work from Kell was sporadic, in between circling the ring trying to stay away while getting hit. Obviously the eye caused some of that but we don't take vision problems into account when scoring rounds. Unless of course your the assholes chosen to oversee this fight. Their vision was as questionable as the guy fighting half blind.

[caldo2025]

Yeah, Brook ahead on the cards, hometown cooking was in the works. 2nd round was his, he had other moments that were great but probably not enough to take any other round. Lucky there wasn't a knockdown scored as well.

I guess I could see the 38-38 scorecards that two of the judges had but that third judge gave GGG only the 3rd round. That's criminal. GGG had Brook hurt bad in the first as well. And yes, that was definitely a clear knockdown. This could have been a very ugly night for boxing had this one gone to the cards.

I think Abel and Gennady figured as much, and the knockout was their only plan. It's still even hard to see it being even at 38-38, because the only good effective work from Kell was sporadic, in between circling the ring trying to stay away while getting hit. Obviously the eye caused some of that but we don't take vision problems into account when scoring rounds. Unless of course your the assholes chosen to oversee this fight. Their vision was as questionable as the guy fighting half blind.

You know, i'd really love to know what Brook's strategy was supposed to be in there. I'm sure that they had a plan to defeat GGG but to me, it sure didn't look like it from the opening bell. Brook had his back on the ropes several times in the first round. I'd have to think that the plan should have been the opposite of that. To me, it just seemed like Brook was winging it every round he was in there but again, that could be because of the eye since he got popped so early in the fight.

[SFW]

That side of the promotion reeked of overconfidence, I think they truly believed Kell had the stopping power and he could box the 2nd half and outpoint him. They banked on earning Golovkins respect with power shots, which was always a pipedream. Sadly, if Kell was still standing after 12 rounds he'd be brain dead and they'd of handed him the titles. That's how fucked up this sport is.

Canelo scorecards are already filled out too. He won 9 rounds already, he just has to show up and he gets the other 3. And of course free Tecate.

[boxing_rocks]

I guess I could see the 38-38 scorecards that two of the judges had but that third judge gave GGG only the 3rd round. That's criminal. GGG had Brook hurt bad in the first as well. And yes, that was definitely a clear knockdown. This could have been a very ugly night for boxing had this one gone to the cards.

I think Abel and Gennady figured as much, and the knockout was their only plan. It's still even hard to see it being even at 38-38, because the only good effective work from Kell was sporadic, in between circling the ring trying to stay away while getting hit. Obviously the eye caused some of that but we don't take vision problems into account when scoring rounds. Unless of course your the assholes chosen to oversee this fight. Their vision was as questionable as the guy fighting half blind.

You know, i'd really love to know what Brook's strategy was supposed to be in there. I'm sure that they had a plan to defeat GGG but to me, it sure didn't look like it from the opening bell. Brook had his back on the ropes several times in the first round. I'd have to think that the plan should have been the opposite of that. To me, it just seemed like Brook was winging it every round he was in there but again, that could be because of the eye since he got popped so early in the fight.

The plan was probably the opposite of staying on the ropes, but as Abel says, as soon as you are touched by Gennady, your plans become irrelevant.

[phillykid]

yea, i think Brook and his team was planning to eventually get into a groove to be able to slip, duck, and find ways to land like he normally does.
they didn't take into account Golovkin was gonna start fast imo.

the broken orbital bone and Golovkins early pressure pretty much prevented Brook from getting into his rhythm.

[caldo2025]

I think Abel and Gennady figured as much, and the knockout was their only plan. It's still even hard to see it being even at 38-38, because the only good effective work from Kell was sporadic, in between circling the ring trying to stay away while getting hit. Obviously the eye caused some of that but we don't take vision problems into account when scoring rounds. Unless of course your the assholes chosen to oversee this fight. Their vision was as questionable as the guy fighting half blind.

You know, i'd really love to know what Brook's strategy was supposed to be in there. I'm sure that they had a plan to defeat GGG but to me, it sure didn't look like it from the opening bell. Brook had his back on the ropes several times in the first round. I'd have to think that the plan should have been the opposite of that. To me, it just seemed like Brook was winging it every round he was in there but again, that could be because of the eye since he got popped so early in the fight.

The plan was probably the opposite of staying on the ropes, but as Abel says, as soon as you are touched by Gennady, your plans become irrelevant.

I'd like to see how GGG looks in the championship rounds. Maybe someday we'll see it but i don't know if it's body language but even in the Murray fight, he just appears to be gassed. But then he'll just turn it on so i'm not sure if it's just in my head watching him or what. I saw it again Saturday. On his stool, he was huffing it up heavy.

[marvelous marv]

Why would GGG get into a "street fight" when he could have easily controlled his opponent with the jab like he did to Lemieax? Admiral Akbar thinks its a trap for cinnamon head.

[boxing_rocks]

Why would GGG get into a "street fight" when he could have easily controlled his opponent with the jab like he did to Lemieax? Admiral Akbar thinks its a trap for cinnamon head.

The guy was just having fun. He is missing brawl.