The HEAVYWEIGHT game: *CLOSED*

[keithmoonhangover]

24 members now counted. Joe Louis regains 1 pt ground on Ali. It does seem that every point is going to count in the end, in the race for The Number One spot.

Also, in the lower reaches of the top 10 - Evander Holyfield & Smokin' Joe are making some real moves trying to move up the table.

Crease sir, may I enquire as to where Anthony Joshua rates at the moment? How many points does he have?

[cfang]

24 members now counted. Joe Louis regains 1 pt ground on Ali. It does seem that every point is going to count in the end, in the race for The Number One spot.

Also, in the lower reaches of the top 10 - Evander Holyfield & Smokin' Joe are making some real moves trying to move up the table.

Crease sir, may I enquire as to where Anthony Joshua rates at the moment? How many points does he have?

[cfang]

There is no doubt at all that scheming deserves more credit for his win over louis than rocky or charles. Max's win was a stunner and he was never as good as before or after that night. He beat a killer of louis, the other two beat a pale shadow of him.

He had already retired because he knew he was past his prime. Needed the money, sorry man, that isn't remotely debatable.

Obviously he needed the money with the tax breathing down his neck, but even a quick glance at Joe's record suggests that he was still at top fighter (8 wins in a row) by the time he fought Marciano.

Even more off than Holyfield being prime for Tyson.

Tyson was not in his prime when he fought Holyfeld. And never once said that, I'm confused as to why you brought that up?

Louis may have been still a top fighter, but he clearly was nowhere near as good as once was. He was much slower, and his reflexes were almost shot. Fighters that he would have knocked out easily were now going the distance. Cesar Brion gave him a lot of trouble.

He was much closer to his prime when he lost to Schmeling than when he lost to Charles and Marciano. He had already beaten some good competition before he fought Schmeling.
Schmeling deserves much more credit for his win than Charles and Marciano. Not even close.
The Louis-Charles fight and Louis-Marciano fight should almost be ignored.

Tyson was not in his prime when he fought Holyfield, but he was closer to his prime than Holyfield was to his and still lost.

[Crease]

Crease sir, may I enquire as to where Anthony Joshua rates at the moment? How many points does he have?

Of course Mr Keith.

As of the present moment, Mr Anthony Joshua has accumulated a grand total of 00 points. Because of which, he is categorised as UNRANKED.

However, i do anticipate that Mr Kalan may grace us with his pearls of wisdom. Actually, i might even break a rule of mine and PM him. Asking him to provide us with a (highly entertaining) top 10 of his...

[davie]

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Lennox Lewis
4. Larry Holmes
5. George Foreman
6. Joe Frazier
7. Evander Holyfield
8. Rocky Marciano
9. Jack Johnson
10. Mike Tyson

[davie]

Crease, I've thought of doing something similar on a p4p ATG type scale.

Do you fancy running such a thread after this one closes?

[Crease]

10 votes

Thank you for your contribution, sir. Your scores have allowed Lewis to regain 6th spot.

[Crease]

However, i do anticipate that Mr Kalan may grace us with his pearls of wisdom. Actually, i might even break a rule of mine and PM him. Asking him to provide us with a (highly entertaining) top 10 of his...

I have private mailed him. Let's wait and see what happens...
God knows, Anthony Joshua badly needs a boost if he is to break in to our collective top 10.

[Crease]

Crease, do you fancy running another thread after this one closes?

Originally, I had just planned on settling the "Heavyweight top ten" debate with a comprehensive & definitive thread which would allow everyone equals votes to share out amongst the great fighters of the division.

I think that this is the best way to measure the greatness of fighters', because the greater number of people who have their say will also be contributing to the landscape of the scoreboard. Thus, the quantity makes the quality better.

I am going to do another thread after this one closes (October 1st). It's going to be identical to the format of this thread, but instead we are going to be picking the Top 10 Light Heavyweights and that will be open for 1 month.

Following on from that, I'm thinking that we keep using the months to proceed through the original eight weight divisions (so Middleweight, then Welterweight, then Lightweight etc...).

Crease, I've thought of doing something similar on a p4p ATG type scale.

I might do a P4P one later in the future, but your talking about next year sometime. I think that the Pound-For-Pound should really be for the big finale, don't you?

[pound per pound]

My vote is if they all fought each other round robin style, who would have the most wins, then at 2nd most win and so on. Old timers get modern nutrition and trainers to compensate to level the playing field.

1 ) Ali
2 ) Holmes
3 ) Lennox Lewis
4 ) Vitaly Klitschko
5 ) Jeffries
6 ) Foreman
7 ) Joe Louis
8 ) Tyson
9 ) Vladimir Klitschko
10 ) Liston

[davie]

Crease, do you fancy running another thread after this one closes?

Originally, I had just planned on settling the "Heavyweight top ten" debate with a comprehensive & definitive thread which would allow everyone equals votes to share out amongst the great fighters of the division.

I think that this is the best way to measure the greatness of fighters', because the greater number of people who have their say will also be contributing to the landscape of the scoreboard. Thus, the quantity makes the quality better.

I am going to do another thread after this one closes (October 1st). It's going to be identical to the format of this thread, but instead we are going to be picking the Top 10 Light Heavyweights and that will be open for 1 month.

Following on from that, I'm thinking that we keep using the months to proceed through the original eight weight divisions (so Middleweight, then Welterweight, then Lightweight etc...).

Crease, I've thought of doing something similar on a p4p ATG type scale.

I might do a P4P one later in the future, but your talking about next year sometime. I think that the Pound-For-Pound should really be for the big finale, don't you?

Spot on mate, absolutely no complaints from Davie

[davie]

10 votes

Thank you for your contribution, sir. Your scores have allowed Lewis to regain 6th spot.

Big Lewis fan and honestly think in top form he rivals any heavy in history (yet in worst form gets levelled by B-level fighter )

[keithmoonhangover]

Crease sir, may I enquire as to where Anthony Joshua rates at the moment? How many points does he have?

Of course Mr Keith.

As of the present moment, Mr Anthony Joshua has accumulated a grand total of 00 points. Because of which, he is categorised as UNRANKED.
..

I demand a recount.

[Crease]

4 ) Vitaly Klitschko
5 ) Jeffries
9 ) Vladimir Klitschko

The Klitchsko brothers' both getting points from you could probably come as a surprise to come. And Jeffries getting 6 pts would definitely be an eyebrow-raiser for many. It was for me.
Why is it that that you rank Jim so highly? (Not having a go, you can do whatever you want with your points allocation, just genuinely curious)

Still, Mr P4P's voting has split fighters on the same amount of points.

11th - 31 pts Sonny Liston
12th - 26 pts Mike Tyson
13th - 15 pts Wladimir Klitschko
14th - 12 pts James J Jeffries
15th - 11 pts Vitali Klitschko
16th - 10 pts Gene Tunney
17th - 07 pts Sam Langford
18th - 06 pts John L Sullivan
19th - 03 pts Riddick Bowe
Tied 20th - 01 pt Ezzard Charles
Tied 20th - 01 pt Peter Jackson

[Crease]

Big Lewis fan and honestly think in top form he rivals any heavy in history (yet in worst form gets levelled by B-level fighter

Fair enough, sir. I was always of the opinion that there was a big question mark of Lennox (even before the Rahman KO) he never instilled confidence in me and I always had my doubts about him during his reign. It's maybe why I always rank him lower down in my top 10.
But isn't that the beauty of having an overall list to pull all these ideas together?

I on the other hand, am a big Marciano fan, so I'd like to see The Rock do well in our overall list. I do think that Marciano is heavily underrated these days...

[Ambling Alp II]

He had always been heavily underrated by some people and heavily overrated by others. Have always thought that if he had went 48-1, that this would not be the case and there would be much more consensus about him.

[Boxing Writer]

Big Lewis fan and honestly think in top form he rivals any heavy in history (yet in worst form gets levelled by B-level fighter

Fair enough, sir. I was always of the opinion that there was a big question mark of Lennox (even before the Rahman KO) he never instilled confidence in me and I always had my doubts about him during his reign. It's maybe why I always rank him lower down in my top 10.
But isn't that the beauty of having an overall list to pull all these ideas together?

I on the other hand, am a big Marciano fan, so I'd like to see The Rock do well in our overall list. I do think that Marciano is heavily underrated these days...

I rank Marciano higher than Lewis based on career achievements, but I think big Lennox would beat him comfortably H2H. Of course, Rocky would have always had a puncher chance, especially in the later rounds, but think Lewis would be extremely focused and would've won either by wide UD or by stoppage, caused by cuts.

[Crease]

I demand a recount.

Request denied... But we do wish you a good day.

[Kalan]

Big Lewis fan and honestly think in top form he rivals any heavy in history (yet in worst form gets levelled by B-level fighter

Fair enough, sir. I was always of the opinion that there was a big question mark of Lennox (even before the Rahman KO) he never instilled confidence in me and I always had my doubts about him during his reign. It's maybe why I always rank him lower down in my top 10.
But isn't that the beauty of having an overall list to pull all these ideas together?

I on the other hand, am a big Marciano fan, so I'd like to see The Rock do well in our overall list. I do think that Marciano is heavily underrated these days...

I rank Marciano higher than Lewis based on career achievements, but I think big Lennox would beat him comfortably H2H. Of course, Rocky would have always had a puncher chance, especially in the later rounds, but think Lewis would be extremely focused and would've won either by wide UD or by stoppage, caused by cuts.

Lewis would flat knock Marciano out cold.. It would be Foreman-Frazier all over again.. Take 245 versus 185 = 60 pounds and 7 inches of height... It took Marciano 9 slogging rounds to stop tubby Don Cockell who was knocked out many times before -- including by Middleweight Randy Turpin.. And it took him 9 rounds to stop old Light Heavyweight Archie Moore.. 182-pound Patterson stopped Moore a lot faster without getting hit very much or floored.

[Boxing Writer]

Fair enough, sir. I was always of the opinion that there was a big question mark of Lennox (even before the Rahman KO) he never instilled confidence in me and I always had my doubts about him during his reign. It's maybe why I always rank him lower down in my top 10.
But isn't that the beauty of having an overall list to pull all these ideas together?

I on the other hand, am a big Marciano fan, so I'd like to see The Rock do well in our overall list. I do think that Marciano is heavily underrated these days...

I rank Marciano higher than Lewis based on career achievements, but I think big Lennox would beat him comfortably H2H. Of course, Rocky would have always had a puncher chance, especially in the later rounds, but think Lewis would be extremely focused and would've won either by wide UD or by stoppage, caused by cuts.

Lewis would flat knock Marciano out cold.. It would be Foreman-Frazier all over again.. Take 245 versus 185 = 60 pounds and 7 inches of height... It took Marciano 9 slogging rounds to stop tubby Don Cockell who was knocked out many times before -- including by Middleweight Randy Turpin.. And it took him 9 rounds to stop old Light Heavyweight Archie Moore.. 182-pound Patterson stopped Moore a lot faster without getting hit very much or floored.

Of course Lewis had the power to KO Marciano, but I think he would be too catious, just like he was against fat one-dimensional David Tua or shot to sh1t Mike Tyson, when Emanuel Steward was screaming at him madly, being angry at Lennox that he "didn't want to KO a corpse". So I see Lewis beating Marciano either by wide UD or TKO on cuts, caused by the jab.

[Kalan]

I rank Marciano higher than Lewis based on career achievements, but I think big Lennox would beat him comfortably H2H. Of course, Rocky would have always had a puncher chance, especially in the later rounds, but think Lewis would be extremely focused and would've won either by wide UD or by stoppage, caused by cuts.

Lewis would flat knock Marciano out cold.. It would be Foreman-Frazier all over again.. Take 245 versus 185 = 60 pounds and 7 inches of height... It took Marciano 9 slogging rounds to stop tubby Don Cockell who was knocked out many times before -- including by Middleweight Randy Turpin.. And it took him 9 rounds to stop old Light Heavyweight Archie Moore.. 182-pound Patterson stopped Moore a lot faster without getting hit very much or floored.

Of course Lewis had the power to KO Marciano, but I think he would be too catious, just like he was against fat one-dimensional David Tua or shot to sh1t Mike Tyson, when Emanuel Steward was screaming at him madly, being angry at Lennox that he "didn't want to KO a corpse". So I see Lewis beating Marciano either by wide UD or TKO on cuts, caused by the jab.

Lewis wouldn't need to be cautious against anyone Rocky's size... but Mike Tyson was NOT a corpse.. He was a dangerous puncher, younger than Lewis, and the only thing Steward shouted at Lewis that made sense was "HE'S DANGEROUS!!!" ... You have to remember that Emanuel Steward got a lot of heavy favorites knocked out while working their corners: Vivian Harris... Wladimir Klitschko... Tommy Hearns... Jermain Taylor... and Lewis himself... So Lewis learned to ignore Steward and think for himself... He softened Mike up until the middle rounds and knocked him out when Mike was totally spent... Tyson bit Lewis in the leg and threatened to eat his children... LL didn't particularly like Mike and wanted to punish him.

Tua was a tough guy to stop and he could hit a ton... It's wise to box a guy like that... You don't box anybody like Michael Spinks... MS was never knocked out before, but he was a natural Light Heavyweight... You get the little punk out of there like Tyson did.

[Crease]

Eight days to go. We are nearing our final week.

[Crease]

Six days to go... Time is running out quickly.

Next month - Top Ten Light Heavyweights

[davie]

1st - 252 pts Muhammad Ali
2nd - 243 pts Joe Louis

3rd - 164 pts Larry Holmes
4th - 151 pts George Foreman

5th - 121 pts Jack Johnson
6th - 103 pts Lennox Lewis

7th - 93 pts Rocky Marciano
8th - 88 pts Joe Frazier

9th - 79 pts Evander Holyfield
10th - 66 pts Jack Dempsey

When you break down that top ten, you could have some really interesting match ups.

Would be interesting to see how people think they go. Might wait till we get the final result in and start a thread of head to heads, loving the Rock vs Smoking Joe ties personally.

[Keko]

My 10
1.Muhammad Ali
2.Joe Louis
3. Rocky Marciano
4.Larry Holmes
5.George Foreman
6.Evander Holyfield
7.Jack Johnson
8.Joe Frazier
9.Gene Tunney
10. Jack Dempsey