Top 25 All-Time Bantamweights

[elmersalsa]

Hello, folks again! It was a drag of putting together the very best top 25 bantamweight boxers that ever stepped into a boxing ring. It's a very talented bunch of great boxers. Of these 25 118pounders, the first nine of them in my view, are considered top 100 all time pound per pound boxers by anyone's standards. Four of those nine in my view, were so exceptional that according to their boxing records, they belong in the class of the top 50 greatest pound per pound boxers ever without a doubt: Eder Jofre, Panama Al Brown, Terry McGovern and Ruben Olivares. Like the selection of the best top 25 middleweights, the bantams were as tough to select. Like the middleweights, you will see in this list that whatever position you want to put them on, it might be indeed deserving of that particular ranking. The 118 lbs division like the middleweights, has brought us some interesting champions. Not a glamorous division, but, if you want to be entertained with speed, pace and agility, and in some cases, some power, you won't be disappointed watching their fights. They will give you your money's worth. Some bantamweight boxers as you can see, even though that they didn't stay long as champions of the world, their signature wins against top boxers of their time elevated above a champion that had much more title defenses, but beating weak competition. Everything has a balance. According to their stay and accomplishments at the weight class, they are measured very carefully. For example, Rafael Herrera of Mexico, a guy in my estimation that should have been in the hall of fame a long time ago, was an exceptional bantamweight that fought in the era of tough Mexican bantamweights of the late 1960s and early 1970s. He was so good, but not a dominant champion. But beat the very best bantamweight boxers of the time: Chucho Castillo, Rodolfo Martinez and Olivares twice. All of them Mexican tough customers. In the other hand, you got Chicano like Orlando Canizalez, that have the record of most title defenses in the division. But, his quality of opposition was not up to par as Herrera's. So, I considered Herrera above Canizalez. You get my grip?
So, these top 25 bantamweight boxers, according to my estimation, are the most historical and more accomplished that the division has ever produced. It was a drag, but, I did it!

The top 25 bantamweight boxers ever:
1. Eder Jofre
2. Panama Al Brown
3. Carlos Zarate
4. Terry McGovern
5. Manuel Ortiz
6. Ruben Olivares
7. Fighting Harada
8. George Dixon
9. Jimmy Barry
10. Pete "Kid" Herman
11. Rafael Herrera
12. Jeff Chandler
13. Rafael Marquez
14. Veraphol Sahaprom
15. Sixto Escobar
16. Joe Lynch
17. Kid Williams
18. Orlando Canizalez
19. Lupe Pintor
20. Anselmo "Chemito" Moreno
21. Lionel Rose
22. Raul Perez
23. Chucho Castillo
24. Paulie Ayala
25. Miguel "Happy" Lora

Honorary Mention: Alfonso Zamora, Joichiro Tatsuyoshi, Johnny Tapia, Harold Dade, Jimmy Carruthers, Jeff Fenech, Jimmy Walsh, Owen Moran, Pedlar Palmer, Tim Austin and Hosumi Hasegawa

[elmersalsa]

As I saw the records, the ones that impressed me, were the era dominated by the great Mexican bantamweights of the late 60s and early 70s. It was an era compared like the heavyweights of the late 1960s and early 70s. But, the heavyweights got more of the attention. The bantamweights in that time, were top draw in the Los Angeles area and Mexico City market.

[ClivePatrickLyons]

Lionel Rose 21 and Fighting Harada 7

[elmersalsa]

Lionel Rose 21 and Fighting Harada 7

And what is the problem?

[ClivePatrickLyons]

Lionel Rose 21 and Fighting Harada 7

And what is the problem?

If you don't know by now you will never never neveeer know so I won't waste my breath

[scartissue]

The top 25 bantamweight boxers ever:
1. Eder Jofre
2. Panama Al Brown
3. Carlos Zarate
4. Terry McGovern
5. Manuel Ortiz
6. Ruben Olivares
7. Fighting Harada
8. George Dixon
9. Jimmy Barry
10. Pete "Kid" Herman
11. Rafael Herrera
12. Jeff Chandler
13. Rafael Marquez
14. Veraphol Sahaprom
15. Sixto Escobar
16. Joe Lynch
17. Kid Williams
18. Orlando Canizalez
19. Lupe Pintor
20. Anselmo "Chemito" Moreno
21. Lionel Rose
22. Raul Perez
23. Chucho Castillo
24. Paulie Ayala
25. Miguel "Happy" Lora

Honorary Mention: Alfonso Zamora, Joichiro Tatsuyoshi, Johnny Tapia, Harold Dade, Jimmy Carruthers, Jeff Fenech, Jimmy Walsh, Owen Moran, Pedlar Palmer, Tim Austin and Hosumi Hasegawa[/quote]

To tell you the truth - and I know this is an opinionated venture - I would eliminate McGovern, Fenech and Moran right off the bat because they made their bones as featherweights. At 118 was an incubation period for them and simply not them at their best. I would also lose Moreno, Ayala, Tatsuyoshi, Shaparom and Dade, all of whom I don't think belong in an elite list. I would certainly add Rodolfo Martinez, Jose Becerra, Gaby Canizales and Albert Davila. Also, more to consider if this is not world champ inclusive would be some great contenders like Jose Medel, Jesus Pimental, Bernardo Carraballo, Venice Borkorsor and Alan Rudkin. Just food for thought. I know it's your list and I tend to pick on a head to head basis. So everyone's criteria is a bit different.

[Ambling Alp II]

It may not have been McGovern, Fenech, and Moran best weights, but that isn't the question. Where they should rank as bantamweights is the question. He just gave Fenech and Moran honorable mention anyway.

I do think McGovern at #4 is a too high though. Ortiz is a little to high as well.
Seems like Clydepatricklyons thinks Harada is a bit too low and I agree. He should be 4th or 5th. Would bump up Olivares a little as well.

Clydepatricklyons seems to think rose is too low, but I would not put him up too many.

A couple of Old-Timers certainly should be in there: Johnny Coulon and Harry Harris.

I think after the Top 10-12 or so there are a lot of close calls. I can see how elmer and scartissue could disagree on some of those.

[ClivePatrickLyons]

It may not have been McGovern, Fenech, and Moran best weights, but that isn't the question. Where they should rank as bantamweights is the question. He just gave Fenech and Moran honorable mention anyway.

I do think McGovern at #4 is a too high though. Ortiz is a little to high as well.
Seems like Clydepatricklyons thinks Harada is a bit too low and I agree. He should be 4th or 5th. Would bump up Olivares a little as well.

Clydepatricklyons seems to think rose is too low, but I would not put him up too many.

A couple of Old-Timers certainly should be in there: Johnny Coulon and Harry Harris.

I think after the Top 10-12 or so there are a lot of close calls. I can see how elmer and scartissue could disagree on some of those.

Clive not Clyde.......... Olivares definitely above Harada...Rose above Harada that's my opinion Lionel at his best beats Harada any day I cannot have him above Rose at Bantamweight.

[Ambling Alp II]

Sorry about the name error.
Outside of Roses' close win over Harada, there is not much of a case for Rose over him. Harada is the only man to beat Jofre and he did it twice. I do think you could make a case that we have underrated Rose.

[scartissue]

Lionel Rose fought the perfect fight to take the title from Harada, but he fought a very weight-drained Harada. In fact every non-title Harada engaged in was fought as a full featherweight. Even from the days prior to him winning the title. The difference between the '65 Harada and the one who lost to Rose in '68 was immense. In fact, I read on boxrec that the odds were against him to beat Caraballo because he began training at 147. So if we're looking at both these fighters in their prime I would pick the '65 Harada over the '68 Rose any day. Not every fighter can maintain the highest peak forever. Even Rose had to abandon 118 with weight issues and also his jaw began letting him down over the course of his own hard career.

[elmersalsa]

It was very hard for me to rank the top 25 best bantamweights ever. It is a loaded and talented weight class. I imagine if there was no 122lbs class? It would have been more loaded. Maybe the great Wilfredo Gomez would have been in the 118lbs mix. Maybe he would have been fighting at featherweight. We will never know.

The bantamweights and middleweight class so far for me, were the top two weight classes so loaded with talent, that it was difficult for me to put a top 25 ranking together of each class.

[Bundana]

Jimmy Barry the 9th best bantamweight ever? Who did he beat to deserve that lofty position? He was a tiny flyweight, who is rated 1949th by BoxRec in that division, all time!

[elmersalsa]

Jimmy Barry the 9th best bantamweight ever? Who did he beat to deserve that lofty position? He was a tiny flyweight, who is rated 1949th by BoxRec in that division, all time!

The great Jimmy Barry was undefeated at 118lbs his entire career. Never lost a fight.

[Bundana]

Yes, I'm aware of that... but what exactly makes him great?

[RoyRJ]

Excelent list.

"Harada is the only man to beat Jofre and he did it twice."

BUT, the first fight was a terrible robbery. Eder jofre never lost by K.O and get just 1 knock down in his career. Beat all of the best opponents in his era and officially recognized as the best bantamweight in the history.

[ClivePatrickLyons]

Lionel Rose was 34-3 at Bantamweight after the Rubin Olivarez fight he went 8-8 at Jr Light/Lightweight [Rose was already pissing blood when making weight] before the Olivarez fight Rose wanted to move up to Featherweight but was offered the BIGGEST Bantamweight purse in history at the time Rose lasting until round 5 was a very good effort in its self unless you ignore the dangerous habit of fighting mother nature and waisting to get to the Bantam limit Rose was convinced to stay and not to move up to Featherweight he was NEVER the same fighter once he couldn't make Bantamweight
three Japanese judge's gave Rose a un dec on the score card's in Harada backyard they had Rose winning by 1/2/3 point's thats a CLEAR win in my book i'v watched the fight and there was more then 1/2 point's margin for Rose those three Japanese judge's score card's tell a story the fight wasn't as close as you say Harada style was tailor made for Rose he could never have beat him at Bantamweight.........Jr light/Lightweight when Lionel was drinking more Booze then training would have been Harada only chance of beating Rose because at Bantamweight Lionel was truly GREAT.

[ClivePatrickLyons]

Lionel Rose fought the perfect fight to take the title from Harada, but he fought a very weight-drained Harada. In fact every non-title Harada engaged in was fought as a full featherweight. Even from the days prior to him winning the title. The difference between the '65 Harada and the one who lost to Rose in '68 was immense. In fact, I read on boxrec that the odds were against him to beat Caraballo because he began training at 147. So if we're looking at both these fighters in their prime I would pick the '65 Harada over the '68 Rose any day. Not every fighter can maintain the highest peak forever. Even Rose had to abandon 118 with weight issues and also his jaw began letting him down over the course of his own hard career.

Rose was pissing blood from making Bantamweight and was carried to the car after falling out of a sweat box on his way to the official weigh on more then one occasion later in life he had more then one heart attack that was surely a result of the dangerous habit of waisting to make Bantamweight Harada was a FLYWEIGHT World Champion before moving up in weight and another thing you should do some research before you start questioning Lionel Chin he's problem by that time was the booze not his Chin Harada was made for Rose

[scartissue]

Lionel Rose fought the perfect fight to take the title from Harada, but he fought a very weight-drained Harada. In fact every non-title Harada engaged in was fought as a full featherweight. Even from the days prior to him winning the title. The difference between the '65 Harada and the one who lost to Rose in '68 was immense. In fact, I read on boxrec that the odds were against him to beat Caraballo because he began training at 147. So if we're looking at both these fighters in their prime I would pick the '65 Harada over the '68 Rose any day. Not every fighter can maintain the highest peak forever. Even Rose had to abandon 118 with weight issues and also his jaw began letting him down over the course of his own hard career.

Rose was pissing blood from making Bantamweight and was carried to the car after falling out of a sweat box on his way to the official weigh on more then one occasion later in life he had more then one heart attack that was surely a result of the dangerous habit of waisting to make Bantamweight Harada was a FLYWEIGHT World Champion before moving up in weight and another thing you should do some research before you start questioning Lionel Chin he's problem by that time was the booze not his Chin Harada was made for Rose

Dude, you don't need to preach to me about research, because I've done mine. Have you done yours? I acknowledge that Rose was having weight issues by the time that he lost to Olivares, but you don't seem to want to admit that Harada was having weight issues even before his first fight with Jofre. He fought 3 years of making some of the toughest title defenses (Jofre in the rematch, Medel, Caraballo and Rudkin while killing himself to make 118. All his non-titles were at featherweight, but you don't want to see that. You seem to say it was the booze and not the chin of Rose. I say he never really had the strongest of chins. He was decked by Sakurai, Medel, Castillo and Cruz before the Olivares fight. It wasn't glass, just not the best. Again, prime for prime - '65 Harada against '68 Rose - I would take Harada.

[ClivePatrickLyons]

Lionel Rose fought the perfect fight to take the title from Harada, but he fought a very weight-drained Harada. In fact every non-title Harada engaged in was fought as a full featherweight. Even from the days prior to him winning the title. The difference between the '65 Harada and the one who lost to Rose in '68 was immense. In fact, I read on boxrec that the odds were against him to beat Caraballo because he began training at 147. So if we're looking at both these fighters in their prime I would pick the '65 Harada over the '68 Rose any day. Not every fighter can maintain the highest peak forever. Even Rose had to abandon 118 with weight issues and also his jaw began letting him down over the course of his own hard career.

Rose was pissing blood from making Bantamweight and was carried to the car after falling out of a sweat box on his way to the official weigh on more then one occasion later in life he had more then one heart attack that was surely a result of the dangerous habit of waisting to make Bantamweight Harada was a FLYWEIGHT World Champion before moving up in weight and another thing you should do some research before you start questioning Lionel Chin he's problem by that time was the booze not his Chin Harada was made for Rose

Dude, you don't need to preach to me about research, because I've done mine. Have you done yours? I acknowledge that Rose was having weight issues by the time that he lost to Olivares, but you don't seem to want to admit that Harada was having weight issues even before his first fight with Jofre. He fought 3 years of making some of the toughest title defenses (Jofre in the rematch, Medel, Caraballo and Rudkin while killing himself to make 118. All his non-titles were at featherweight, but you don't want to see that. You seem to say it was the booze and not the chin of Rose. I say he never really had the strongest of chins. He was decked by Sakurai, Medel, Castillo and Cruz before the Olivares fight. It wasn't glass, just not the best. Again, prime for prime - '65 Harada against '68 Rose - I would take Harada.

Rose was a BETTER Bantamweight then Harada he outboxed him in his backyard and like another Aussie Great in Johny Femachon who was a brilliant tactician much like Rose also outboxed and even stopped him in the 2nd fight both in Featherweight World Title fight's matter of fact both Rose AND famechon could have fought the little Japanese warrior any day of the week and beat him because their style's were the perfect foil for Harada and his rush in brawling style that he usually used ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.ITS LIONEL ROSE BABY

[RoyRJ]

80 years old, look at his body, i wouldn't step in the ring with this man at his prime.

[elmersalsa]

The great Panama Al Brown was 5'11". He was very tall for a bantamweight. He used his height and reach advantages very well against his shorter opponents. A globe-trotting champion, he fought in 15 countries all over the world. A true world champion in the sense of the word. He made 11 title defenses in six years as World Bantamweight Champion. He made boxing history when became the first Latin American fighter to ever win a world crown in 1929. He holds the record of most professional fights without being stopped. He fought in more than 160 contests. Very impressive. "The Enlogated Panamanian" is a top 50 pound per pound all-time great boxer. He has to be. He had a fantastic great career.

[elmersalsa]

The toughest bantamweight era was the Mexican-dominated era of the late 60s and early 70s. It went all the way until 1979. Just to look at the fantastic taken of the era: Ruben Olivares, Rafael Herrera, Alan Rudkin, Lionel Rose, Chucho Castillo, Jose Medel, Jesus Pimentel, Rodolfo Martinez, Romeo Anaya, Enrique "La Maravilla" Pinder and Arnold Taylor amongst others. Then, in the middle of the 70s decade, we got Carlos Zarate, Alfonso Zamora, Jorge Lujan, Lupe Pintor, and Albert Davila. It's an era that we gotta give a closer look. It was as good as the great Muhammad Ali heavyweight division era of the late 60s and 70s.

[elmersalsa]

WBA World Bantamweight Champion Jeff Chandler of Philadelphia, PA, made the division interested in the American tv audiences. His 10 title defenses were in the six-figure paydays.

[elmersalsa]

I just wish that Jeff Chandler would have clashed with WBC counterpart Lupe Pintor of Mexico in an unification match. It would have been a hell of a match.

[Cutman Scabbers]

Soo-Hwan Hong?