Waiting for Golovkin vs. Canelo. Losing respect for De La Hoya (long read)

[twlyall]

A short while ago I wrote a piece in my native language (Danish) about the possible GGG-Canelo match-up, De La Hoya’s role in this affair, Canelo’s diminishing popularity etc.

I thought it might interest others than a small group of Danish readers, so I translated it into English (quickly: so don’t kill me for bad language or grammar). It’s written just before GGG vs. Brook for the website Sportfortalt.dk, which I co-run. Feel free to disagree with my arguments. In fact, I hope some do.


While we’re still waiting for Golovkin vs. Canelo – and losing respect for De La Hoya in the meantime


Boxing fans around the world are craving the match up between Gennady Golovkin and Saul ”Canelo” Alvarez. No deal has been struck yet and that’s primarily affecting Canelo’s popularity. ’Sport fortalt’ takes a look at the reasons why Canelo is turning into a boxing laughingstock.


The biggest possible match-up in current world boxing is still awaited.

The fight between Kazakhstan’s Gennady Golovkin and Mexico’s Saul ”Canelo” Alvarez is still without a date, and boxing fans will just have to trust the two side’s alleged willingness to negotiate.

But while the fight inside the ropes is without a victor, it is becoming increasingly clear that Golovkin is winning big in the “fight” for public sympathy.

Canelo does have his big and loyal fan base, but the mood seems to be turning against the Mexican hope among most neutral boxing fans.

In online forums, Youtube-videos and in reporter’s questions, a growing opinion is reflected: Canelo is currently cutting corners in his boxing career.

A stubborn insistence on fighting at catch weights, repeated fights against lighter opponents (weight-wise), and the absence of a Golovkin-fight are all contributing factors to the red-haired’s diminishing popularity.

The reasons behind Golovkin’s superiority in the image-battle between the two are, however, not necessarily Canelo’s own fault entirely.

In the battle for public and press approval, the weak link rather seems to be Canelo’s promoter –former top boxer Oscar De La Hoya.

Not so golden promotion
The Golden Boy as De La Hoya was called in his active career, and as he now calls his promotion company, has Canelo as the main product.

And that product is indeed worth protecting. Despite being only 26 years old, the redheaded Mexican has already been among the sport’s most prolific names for a small handful of years.

With their management of Canelo’s career, De La Hoya and the Canelo-camp does, nonetheless, make it hard to embrace the otherwise sympathetic and talented young boxing phenomenon.

The blame in this instance should primarily be directed towards De La Hoya and Golden Boy – at least if one looks at what they say themselves.

Even though promoters, managers, PR people etc. traditionally shroud boxing in smokescreen, Golden Boy is in fact quite open about the reasons as to why Canelo’s career is being managed as it is.

In the article ”The Building of Canelo” from the July issue of Ring Magazine, Golden Boy president Eric Gomez explains the ”measured risk”-thinking that dictates the company’s management of Canelo’s career.

Every Canelo bout entails a natural amount of risk, but it’s being carefully measured every time, Gomez explains – with the same kind of thinking that make insurance companies rich, writes Ring Magazine in its article.

And this is exactly one of Golden Boy’s most apparent problems in the ”image-battle” against Golovkin.

Boxing is hence rarely interesting when the main players act like insurance companies.

The Golden Boy president is aware of this and adds among other things:

”When you´re developing a fighter you get to a certain point and then you have to turn them loose to sink or swim.”

That “certain point” should have been reached a long time ago for Canelo. But at the moment Golden Boy doesn’t seem to want to let Canelo swim as long as Golovkin is lurking in the deep waters.

With Canelo’s status, talent and record, his reputation is suffering badly as a consequence.

They main problem for Canelo in this relation seems to Golden Boy’s absolute dependence on him.

After the former CEO Richard Schaefer left the company in 2014, Golden Boy was almost left in ruins. De La Hoya sued Schaefer for deliberately having let boxer’s contracts run out so that Schaefer could bring them with him to boxing’s mysterious lord, the shy businessman Al Haymon.

All of this while De La Hoya was checking in and out of rehab – letting his business run dangerously close to the edge of the abyss.

As De La Hoya – in his own words – got back on his feet again, he was more or less left with Canelo as his company’s only source of income. That is, very roughly speaking, how things still are, and De La Hoya therefore has an obvious interesting in protecting his money boy carefully.

Golden Boy does have names such as Jorge Linares, Francisco Vargas, Sadam Ali, Bernard Hopkins and David Lemieux to fall back on, but none of them are anywhere close to the value of Canelo.

”We know what he means to our company. He’s our franchise,” says Eric Gomez to Ring Magazine and notes how there’s an enormous pressure on the whole cooperation every time Canelo enters the ring.

Erislandy Lara as an example
One of the most obvious arguments as to why it’s Golden Boy putting the brakes on Canelo, is found in the list of his choice of prior opponents – especially illustrated by the choice to step up against Cuba’s Erislandy Lara in 2014.

Erislandy Lara has thus to be considered as one of the least attractive opponents in boxing all together – if one measures risk against reward. Lara is an extremely talented boxer who’s style – just like countryman Guillermo Rigondeaux – just doesn’t seem to be significantly appreciated by the crucial American boxing audience.

In terms of Golden Boy’s ”measured risk”, Erislandy Lara should therefore have been way to dangerous for Canelo.

At the time, Canelo came of his defeat to Floyd Mayweather less than 12 months before, and Golden Boy didn’t want any piece of Lara.

”There was no way I wanted that fight. He was another mover,” says Eric Gomez with reference to Lara’s Mayweather-characteristics.

But Canelo overruled his promoters and took the fight – and an eventual extremely close split decision.

Golden Boy had otherwise build Canelo’s career slowly with fights against fading, but recognizable, names such as Carlos Baldomir, Matthew Hatton, Kermit Cintron and Shane Mosley.
Classic career-handling.

The slow progress has hence been interrupted the times Canelo himself has stepped in and disregarded the insurance mathematics and insisted on bouts against Austin Trout, Floyd Mayweather and Erislandy Lara – three fights that Golden Boy all tried to prevent, Eric Gomez admits.

The 88-year-old Hall of Fame-promoter Don Chargin, who acts as a mentor to De La Hoya and Golden Boy, describes Canelo as ”a little different than most guys” in this instance.

”Most guys you bring along and they want easier fights but Canelo really wanted to fight the best. It was Canelo who insisted on the Mayweather fight, when Golden Boy wanted to wait, which would have been right from a promotor’s standpoint. He’s the one who wanted Trout when nobody wanted to fight Trout,” he says – again to Ring Magazine.

But if Canelo apparently insists on fighting the best, you’ll have to ask why he doesn’t overrule Golden Boy these days and demand a fight against Golovkin.

The reason is – possibly – that Canelo has reached the same conclusion as most other people: The risk of loosing to Golovkin is considerably larger than it was against Lara and Trout – however possibly not larger than against Mayweather.

It is, then, all about making sure the payday is as good as possible – and that’s where the two sides (according to Canelo himself) can’t make ends meet. The negotiations are complicated by the fact that Canelo’s people (probably with good reason) view him as the A-side.

The fighters seem game, and that leaves us back at the promoters once again. The (untrustworthy) explanation from De La Hoya is – among others – that Canelo is a natural lightmiddleweight and that his body simply isn’t ready for a “true” middleweight like Golovkin yet. That, however, doesn’t make too much sense, as Canelo usually is bigger than Golovkin come fight day.

The question should hence be, whether De La Hoya really wants Canelo’s body to be “ready” before Golovkin gets near his 40th birthday (Golovkin is currently 34 years old)?

How about Golovkin then?
But as Canelo, at the tender age of 26, has already stepped up against people like Floyd Mayweather, Miguel Cotto, Erislandy Lara and Austin Trout, why is “the people” then rallying behind Golovkin, who – if anyone – hasn’t met opposition from his own high level?

Golovkin is deservedly considered at one of the sport’s best boxers across all weight classes, just as he’s one of few fighters who can headline a PPV event.

That, however, has more to do with how he has performed – rather than against whom. He has fought respectable names such as David Lemieux, Martin Murray and Daniel Geale at times where they were in fact relevant fighters, but his CV is still very slender for a man on top of the sport.

Golovkin’s popularity is therefore – along with the thrilling way he chops down opposition in the ring – seemingly rooted in something that De La Hoya and Canelo fails to manage: The art of controlling the narrative about the boxer.

Golovkin has (undoubtedly with good reason) assumed the role as the most avoided boxer around –and that generates a lot of sympathy. Golovkin wants to fight anyone – he proclaims – but he constantly has to deal with quality opposition ducking the challenge. That is at least the narrative.

In the build up to Golovkin’s upcoming fight with England’s Kell Brook, it is for instance publicly known that Golovkin’s people (K2 Promotions) unsuccessfully tried to get him in the ring with Canelo, Billy Joe Saunders and Chris Eubank Jr.

Golovkin is obviously important to K2 as well, but they don’t want to cut corners like Golden Boy. With Golovkin’s 34 years they simply do not have the time.

This coming Saturday (now, this past Saturday), the fight against Kell Brook in London awaits Golovkin.

At first sight a semi bizarre match-up, which surprised the boxing world in the same fashion that Canelo’s fight against Amir Khan did back in May.

The welterweight Brook is moving up two weight classes, and even though his promoter Eddie Hearn has tried to depict him as an almost natural middleweight, he will still have to fight 13 pounds above his regular weight class against the beast of middleweight.

That is really brave – and not very ”measured risk” – but it could possible turn out really ugly for Brook. ‘Sport fortalt’ predicts a KO-victory for Golovkin inside the first 7 rounds.

While we are waiting
‘Sport fortalt’ have previously foreseen a match-up between Canelo and Golovkin next year. The tentative fight date is apparently September 2017 at the moment, and it is therefore no surprise that both boxers keep on fighting. What is surprising, however, (and not least adding significantly to Canelo’s fading popularity) is the fact that Canelos next opponent is called Liam Smith.

On the 17th of September Canelo enters the ring against the unbeaten Englishman, who is in fact a decent boxer, whom Canelo has to perform his very best against in order to beat. The second youngest of the terrific Smith brothers is to some extend “the real deal”.

The problem is, though, that – completely contrary to want most fans had expected and hoped for –Canelo after his title defence against Amir Khan chose to vacate his WBC-belt and step DOWN (!) in weight to fight Liam Smith for the WBO lightmiddleweight-belt.

An impressively tone-deaf decision, which has emphatically branded Canelo as a “duck”, a “Canela” etc.

The event in which Canelo faces Smith is subsequently a testament to the fact that the critique of De La Hoya as a promoter has more to it than just his (over)protection of Canelo and his untrustworthy statements.

If one takes a look at the undercard that Golden Boy has scrambled together for Canelo vs. Smith, it’s absolutely cringeworthy to think that the event takes place at AT&T Stadium in Texas (80.000 seats) and is broadcasted on HBO PPV.

The highlights on the undercard are Gabe Rosado vs. Willie Monroe and Joseph Diaz vs. Andrew Cancio. Two interesting fights in themselves, with Rosado vs. Monroe as guaranteed entertainment, but nonetheless completely insufficient as highlights on an undercard for an event of that (proposed) magnitude.

At the event Pacquaio vs. Bradley III in April, Gilberto Ramirez and Arthur Abraham for instance fought for the WBO supermiddleweight title, while an exiting featherweight bout between Oscar Valdez and Evgeny Gradovich was accompanied by fights with extremely exiting up-and-coming boxers such as Oleksandr Gvozdyk, Egidijus Kavaliauskas and Jose Carlos Ramirez.
All of which the reader should, btw, take notice as there might be one or two future world champions among them.

With the Canelo vs. Smith event Golden Boy instead follow in the footsteps of Canelo vs. Khan at which the undercard was equally uninteresting – with Glen Tapia vs. David Lemiuix being the highlight.

The examples are numerous but the conclusion is simple: De La Hoya is too lightweighted as a promoter these years. He has a golden calf in Canelo, but people will loose their interest and respect if he only spends his time polishing it.

He needs to find the right balance between and risk, and apparently he isn’t all that good at finding it currently.

[jockpunk]

Very good write up.

[twlyall]

Very good write up.

Thanks, Jockpunk!

[rab]

i completely understand the sentiment behind your thoughts (very well written, more so as it is in a second language), but i don't think we are seeing anything new here. to a degree this has always been part of boxing and in recent years the most successful and highest earning boxer of all time mr. mayweather has applied exactly this method .

from a fan perspective i agree entirely with you, but i can understand the situation golden boy is in ,and the canelo team in wanting to protect what is a highly lucrative asset. canelo potentially has up to 10 years of earning tens of millions a year left in him if managed well, that is a lot of incentive not to get him beat and potentially beat badly. he appears to be a proud fighter with a good chin , not a great recipe if on the end of golovkins punches if it turns out golovkin has the measure of him.

mayweather was a risk worth taking. the smaller man was never going to put a bad beat down on him. a bad loss to golovkin could be career ending.

[twlyall]

i completely understand the sentiment behind your thoughts.......(...) .

Really good comments, rab. Thank you. I agree with most of what you write. I think you are right in arguing that we are not "seeing anything new here". And basically, I think that Canelo and De La Hoya should manage Canelo's career as ever they see fit. In fact, I completely understand why things are as they are. As you highlight, he should have years of big fights to come – and a bad loss to Golovkin could, yes, be career ending. However, when trying to understand the reasons behind what (I argue at least) is a decline in Canalo's image, I point to this overprotective "insurance-like thinking" as one of the key issues. As this is probably a common way of handling a boxer's career, I do still think that there are several other contemporary boxers, who have shown that there is a different way. While negotiations are always complicated at that top-top-top level, I feel that boxer's such as Pacquiao, (hell, even De La Hoya as boxer), Shane Mosley and Ward (Kessler, Froch, Kovalev etc.) have shown a will to fight the best out there. The bottom line is, that I feel De La Hoya is still treating Canelo as an emerging boxer, which I dont believe he is. And, if he loses Saturday, Canelo and Golden Boy will look like complete fools :-)

[boxing_rocks]

Even at 154, he picked the softest champion. The fight is in the U.S., and the other 3 champions are Americans. Why would you pick an unknown Brit ? There can be no business explanation to that.

[gilgamesh]

Good write up.

While I understand what Golden Boy is doing protecting their cash cow, I don't respect it at all, and my dislike for Canelo and Golden Boy promotions grows by the week. I'm already hearing talks of Canelo vs Brook in May assuming he beats Liam Smith...so now it looks like they're gonna start going the Floyd/Pac route where they d*ck around fighting GGG's leftovers for a while.

Until Canelo steps in the ring with Golovkin, I have no interest in his fights, and I damn sure won't be buying any of these garbage PPV's. I honestly hope Liam Smith just beats him and Canelo's stock drops...that's what he deserves and that's what Golden Boy deserves for f*cking over the fans.

[rab]

i completely understand the sentiment behind your thoughts.......(...) .

I point to this overprotective "insurance-like thinking" as one of the key issues. As this is probably a common way of handling a boxer's career, I do still think that there are several other contemporary boxers, who have shown that there is a different way. While negotiations are always complicated at that top-top-top level, I feel that boxer's such as Pacquiao, (hell, even De La Hoya as boxer), Shane Mosley and Ward (Kessler, Froch, Kovalev etc.) have shown a will to fight the best out there. The bottom line is, that I feel De La Hoya is still treating Canelo as an emerging boxer, which I dont believe he is. And, if he loses Saturday, Canelo and Golden Boy will look like complete fools :-)

again i have to agree and my feelings on it are similar to most but not as strong as some . the mayweather /pacquaio saga ruined that fight for me and i can see the same happening here.the manny that fought cotto ,margarito and oscar himself, was nowhere to be seen after that devastating loss to marquez .

for me there is every chance that due to the age difference in canelo and ggg that it is dragged out for a few years yet with canelo's team hoping for a drop off in ggg's performance so i don't want to get too caught up in the potential of seeing this fight in case it turns out to be a similar story to manny and floyd .again you are spot on that if canelo loses in the meantime it blows the chance of a mega fight right out the water. i can't get mad at either canelo or ggg, with both being able to take a punch and with pride high on both agenda's this is a fight that will likely have a lasting effect on both physically .
reading that back it seems a bit disjointed, i hope you get what i mean.

[Baby Face Finster]

We as fans should have absolutely no concern with a boxers strategy for maximizing future earnings. All we should care about is the best fighting the best. Everything else is bullshit and irrelevant to the reasons we watch the sport.

[thomasjkelley]

I wish I could read and write in a second language as well as you do. Your English is better than 90% of native speakers. It is always about controlling the narrative. But even a propagandized narrative can only get you so far. At some point, perception is overwhelmed by reality and the masses begin to tune out your message entirely. That is what has happened with Golden Boy and Alvarez. We know that Canelo overruled Oscar in other situations. We know that he could the same for a GGG fight. The risk against GGG is much greater than any of the others, including Mayweather. Mayweather is the greatest boxer of our time. There is no shame losing to a Mayweather who avoids brawling with Canelo and uses his superior speed to avoid all danger. Mexicans have a certain pride in their fighters. That you will stalk your opponent and chop him down. You can lose all of the first 11 rounds in lopsided fashion, it's irrelevant. In their eyes, your job is seek and destroy. Against GGG, Canelo might well end up running himself, being stalked relentlessly by a fighter looking to kill him. That would trash his legacy. The rewards for Canelo are just as great. If he could pull off a victory in any manner, his legacy would be cemented. Canelo has little confidence in his ability to do such. And that is why he has refused to fight Golovkin to this point.

[twlyall]

I wish I could read and write in a second language as well as you do. Your English is better than 90% of native speakers. It is always about controlling the narrative. But even a propagandized narrative can only get you so far. At some point, perception is overwhelmed by reality and the masses begin to tune out your message entirely. That is what has happened with Golden Boy and Alvarez. We know that Canelo overruled Oscar in other situations. We know that he could the same for a GGG fight. The risk against GGG is much greater than any of the others, including Mayweather. Mayweather is the greatest boxer of our time. There is no shame losing to a Mayweather who avoids brawling with Canelo and uses his superior speed to avoid all danger. Mexicans have a certain pride in their fighters. That you will stalk your opponent and chop him down. You can lose all of the first 11 rounds in lopsided fashion, it's irrelevant. In their eyes, your job is seek and destroy. Against GGG, Canelo might well end up running himself, being stalked relentlessly by a fighter looking to kill him. That would trash his legacy. The rewards for Canelo are just as great. If he could pull off a victory in any manner, his legacy would be cemented. Canelo has little confidence in his ability to do such. And that is why he has refused to fight Golovkin to this point.

Thank you very much, thomasjkelley. That's very kind of you!

I think you are spot on in terms of your points above on Canelo and GGG. I do – exactly – think, that the masses have begun "to tune out the message entirely" from Camp Canelo. However, I did feel that they somehow got away from the event Saturday with a small victory in the "image battle". The words from Canelo to Max Kellermann after the fight seemed quite clever and at least eased some of my growing resentment towards "Camp Canelo". When I choose to write "Camp Canelo" in this instance, it is because I actually like Canelo as both a fighter and a person. However, I do not like the "Golden Boy product" called 'Canelo'. I dont like how he's been managed, guided and marketed – if that even makes sense.

[Enlightened-One]

Waiting for Golovkin vs. Canelo. Losing respect for De La Hoya

… Canelo’s status, talent and record, his reputation is suffering badly as a consequence…

The Canelo-Golovkin match up has only been on the menu since last November. A full year hasn’t even gone by. In fact, only ten months have passed.

Three months ago, Loeffler and De La Hoya verbally agreed to stage the eagerly-awaited GGG-Canelo fight on the 16th September, 2017. This has been confirmed by both parties.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the A-side fighter choosing to acclimatise to a new heavier weight division before engaging in a marquee super-fight against Gennady Golovkin.

Similarly, Tom Loeffler has previously stated on video that GGG would not jump straight to 168lbs to face Andre Ward; they would need to take a few super-middleweight warm-up bouts beforehand. Abel Sanchez confirmed this also.

So you can’t apply double-standards, whereby two fighters have the same approach, but one of them gets lambasted, whilst you praise the other one.

[twlyall]

Waiting for Golovkin vs. Canelo. Losing respect for De La Hoya

… Canelo’s status, talent and record, his reputation is suffering badly as a consequence…

The Canelo-Golovkin match up has only been on the menu since last November. A full year hasn’t even gone by. In fact, only ten months have passed.

Three months ago, Loeffler and De La Hoya verbally agreed to stage the eagerly-awaited GGG-Canelo fight on the 16th September, 2017. This has been confirmed by both parties.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the A-side fighter choosing to acclimatise to a new heavier weight division before engaging in a marquee super-fight against Gennady Golovkin.

Similarly, Tom Loeffler has previously stated on video that GGG would not jump straight to 168lbs to face Andre Ward; they would need to take a few super-middleweight warm-up bouts beforehand. Abel Sanchez confirmed this also.

So you can’t apply double-standards, whereby two fighters have the same approach, but one of them gets lambasted, whilst you praise the other one.

There are a couple of things here that I dont understand and/or agree with.
1. I noticed Doug Fischer write the (exact) same thing in his monday mailbag, but that doesn't make it any more true: How is it that "the Canelo-Golovkin match up has only been on the menu since last November" ? You'll have to define "on the menu here"? Canelo-Golovkin has only been an option since the Mexican beat Cotto – is that it? Golovkin talked about fighting Canelo in the ring after his Willie Monroe Jr. fight in may 2015. Canelo did the same after Kirkland that same month. At that time, Mauricio Sulaiman had already talked about the fight as an imminent event etc. etc. Tom Loeffler had already mentioned Canelo as one of a small handfull of boxers K2 had in mind before the Monroe-fight etc. etc. So basically Im a bit unsure what constitutes "being on the menu" in this instance.

2. You write that there is nothing wrong with "the A-side fighter choosing to acclimatise to a new heavier weight division before engaging in a marquee super-fight against Gennady Golovkin". I agree. Which makes it even more peculiar that Canelo would drop down to JMW and fight Liam Smith.

3. You write about GGG not wanting to "jump straight to 168lbs to face Andre Ward" and mention "double standards" as I "praise one" and "lambast" the other. First off, your reading of my text must be different than my own. I am actually quite fond of Canelo. What I do, is try to offer an explanation for the change in mood towards Canelo. I think it is pretty evident that GGG has the upper hand in terms of sympathy from neutral fans, and my text is about the reason as to why I think this is the case. While I might be critical towards Canelo, I am curious as to where you feel that I praise Golovkin? In terms of GGG not jumping straight to 168lbs to face Andre Ward, I am not familiar with those details. My impression is that Ward is not planning to move down to 168 anytime soon? But just to play the hypothetical game of comparing Canelo not fighting Golovkin to Golovkin not fighting Ward, there are obvious differences. Some being: Canelo usually weighs more than Golovkin come fight day. Golovkin does not exceed Ward's fight weight - to my knowledge. Golovkin would have to move up to face an opponent, who is currently 15 lbs heavier than him. The difference between Canelo and Golovkin has been 5 or 6lbs lately (on the scales the day before that is).

[boxing_rocks]

Waiting for Golovkin vs. Canelo. Losing respect for De La Hoya

… Canelo’s status, talent and record, his reputation is suffering badly as a consequence…

The Canelo-Golovkin match up has only been on the menu since last November. A full year hasn’t even gone by. In fact, only ten months have passed.

Three months ago, Loeffler and De La Hoya verbally agreed to stage the eagerly-awaited GGG-Canelo fight on the 16th September, 2017. This has been confirmed by both parties.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the A-side fighter choosing to acclimatise to a new heavier weight division before engaging in a marquee super-fight against Gennady Golovkin.

Similarly, Tom Loeffler has previously stated on video that GGG would not jump straight to 168lbs to face Andre Ward; they would need to take a few super-middleweight warm-up bouts beforehand. Abel Sanchez confirmed this also.

So you can’t apply double-standards, whereby two fighters have the same approach, but one of them gets lambasted, whilst you praise the other one.

There are a couple of things here that I dont understand and/or agree with.
1. I noticed Doug Fischer write the (exact) same thing in his monday mailbag, but that doesn't make it any more true: How is it that "the Canelo-Golovkin match up has only been on the menu since last November" ? You'll have to define "on the menu here"? Canelo-Golovkin has only been an option since the Mexican beat Cotto – is that it? Golovkin talked about fighting Canelo in the ring after his Willie Monroe Jr. fight in may 2015. Canelo did the same after Kirkland that same month. At that time, Mauricio Sulaiman had already talked about the fight as an imminent event etc. etc. Tom Loeffler had already mentioned Canelo as one of a small handfull of boxers K2 had in mind before the Monroe-fight etc. etc. So basically Im a bit unsure what constitutes "being on the menu" in this instance.

2. You write that there is nothing wrong with "the A-side fighter choosing to acclimatise to a new heavier weight division before engaging in a marquee super-fight against Gennady Golovkin". I agree. Which makes it even more peculiar that Canelo would drop down to JMW and fight Liam Smith.

3. You write about GGG not wanting to "jump straight to 168lbs to face Andre Ward" and mention "double standards" as I "praise one" and "lambast" the other. First off, your reading of my text must be different than my own. I am actually quite fond of Canelo. What I do, is try to offer an explanation for the change in mood towards Canelo. I think it is pretty evident that GGG has the upper hand in terms of sympathy from neutral fans, and my text is about the reason as to why I think this is the case. While I might be critical towards Canelo, I am curious as to where you feel that I praise Golovkin? In terms of GGG not jumping straight to 168lbs to face Andre Ward, I am not familiar with those details. My impression is that Ward is not planning to move down to 168 anytime soon? But just to play the hypothetical game of comparing Canelo not fighting Golovkin to Golovkin not fighting Ward, there are obvious differences. Some being: Canelo usually weighs more than Golovkin come fight day. Golovkin does not exceed Ward's fight weight - to my knowledge. Golovkin would have to move up to face an opponent, who is currently 15 lbs heavier than him. The difference between Canelo and Golovkin has been 5 or 6lbs lately (on the scales the day before that is).

The guy is a hypocrite who hates Golovkin. He understands perfectly well that Golovkin has never been a lineal or any kind of other SMW champion and that Ward has never been his mandatory, but still writes about "double standards" as if situation is similar.

[Enlightened-One]

I noticed Doug Fischer write the (exact) same thing in his monday mailbag, but that doesn't make it any more true: How is it that "the Canelo-Golovkin match up has only been on the menu since last November" ? You'll have to define "on the menu here"? Canelo-Golovkin has only been an option since the Mexican beat Cotto – is that it?

You’re absolutely correct! Doug Fisher inspired me, because I originally questioned his words, which led me to check the timelines.

Before the Cotto fight, Canelo was simply a light middleweight that was engaging in confidence-building non-title bouts (after the Mayweather defeat). At that point in time, he was under no obligation to face Golovkin, as they were competing in different weight classes… and if you used the “Way Back Machine” internet archive on BoxRec Current Scene’s homepage, very few people were getting excited about this contest, as it was all about Cotto and GGG, until Canelo gained the middleweight crown.

Golovkin talked about fighting Canelo in the ring after his Willie Monroe Jr. fight in may 2015. Canelo did the same after Kirkland that same month.

Andre Ward has also spoken about fighting Golovkin, but no one was outraged, because GGG was competing in a different weight class.

You write that there is nothing wrong with "the A-side fighter choosing to acclimatise to a new heavier weight division before engaging in a marquee super-fight against Gennady Golovkin". I agree. Which makes it even more peculiar that Canelo would drop down to JMW and fight Liam Smith.

As I’ve already previously stated, there is a verbal agreement in place for Canelo to face GGG during September 2017. GBP's motivations for the Smith fight may have been due to commercial reasons, such as commitments to HBO etc.

You write about GGG not wanting to "jump straight to 168lbs to face Andre Ward" and mention "double standards" as I "praise one" and "lambast" the other. First off, your reading of my text must be different than my own. I am actually quite fond of Canelo.

I was merely addressing general sentiment. Admittedly, I should have phrased my words differently.

Simply put: you criticised De La Hoya for doing precisely the same thing that Tom Loeffler claimed he would, if they were looking to face Ward.

While I might be critical towards Canelo, I am curious as to where you feel that I praise Golovkin? In terms of GGG not jumping straight to 168lbs to face Andre Ward, I am not familiar with those details.

Your narrative seemed a tad one-sided to me. In terms of Loeffler’s quote, you can view this via a 42 minute interview on Dontae's Boxing Nation channel on YouTube.

But just to play the hypothetical game of comparing Canelo not fighting Golovkin to Golovkin not fighting Ward, there are obvious differences. Some being: Canelo usually weighs more than Golovkin come fight day.

There’s no proof of this… and there is insufficient data to justify your theory as being fact.

Golovkin does not exceed Ward's fight weight - to my knowledge.

There’s not enough data to prove your theory, but we do know for certain that Ward weighed 176lbs to face Dawson, whilst GGG weighed 173lbs to face Rubio. You may be right, but there was a time when the rehydration weight difference was less significant than today's situation.

Golovkin would have to move up to face an opponent, who is currently 15 lbs heavier than him.

There was a time when this was not the case, so Ward moved up a weight division because Loeffler wanted to wait a year before agreeing the bout. I have previously posted videos of Loeffler making such claims.

The difference between Canelo and Golovkin has been 5 or 6lbs lately (on the scales the day before that is).

Which way?

For the record, I wouldn’t call myself a Canelo fan, but I do consider myself a GGG fan.

I guess the issue I have is the lack of objectivity amongst GGG fans, where they apply double-standards and fail to recognise or choose to ignore the obvious parallels of their contradictory thoughts… whereby two men commit the same crime, resulting in one of them being praised, whilst the other is criticised.

Here are some examples:
• GGG was unwilling to compete 4lbs above his normal fighting weight to face Ward. And he’s praised.
• Canelo was unwilling to compete 5lbs above his normal fighting weight to face GGG. And he’s criticised.
• GGG was praised for fighting an opponent that competed two weight divisions lower than his own.
• Canelo was criticised for fighting an opponent that competed only one weight division lower than his own.
• GGG (via Tom Loeffler) wanted to wait at least a year to face Ward when the discussions initially took place and he’s praised for his decision.
• Canelo (via De La Hoya) wanted to wait at least a year to face GGG when the discussions initially took place and he’s criticised for his decision.
• GGG was praised for disapproving of the notion of catch-weights.
• GGG requests a 164lb catch-weight to face Ward and he’s praised for doing so, despite saying he’d fight Hopkins at 175lbs, Froch at 168lbs, Chavez at 168lbs, DeGale at 168lbs, Ramirez at 168lbs etc.

For the record, I've already posted videos and interview transcripts of all of the above points in this forum.

[boxing_rocks]

As I said, f*cking hypocrite.

[BAD INTENTIONS]

GGG is getting a complete pass on a few things.
HBO no longer criticizes their own fighters like the way they used to crucify Hopkins, Floyd and Jones Jr.
If Haymon's group goes back on HBO and all of a sudden Lampley starts bitching about matchmaking,
we know what's up.

Barely a peep about how foolish the Canelo/Khan and Brook/GGG fights were,
especially considering the available opposition.

Why isn't there ever an even critique of PBC like this?
It's all a bunch of "I hate Haymon" and "He's the worst".

Haymon never did this with the biggest seller in boxing.
A complete year of tune-up fights.

Based on what I've been hearing here for years,
GBP, DLH and Canelo should be getting crucified.

At least in the good ole days on Boxrec, when duckers got called goose. Even if they were cool for having red hair.

[boxing_rocks]

Barely a peep about how foolish ... Brook/GGG fights were,
especially considering the available opposition.

Like who ??? Canelo had all choices in the world including GGG when he picked Khan, while Golovkin picked Brook as a last minute replacement.

[BAD INTENTIONS]

Barely a peep about how foolish ... Brook/GGG fights were,
especially considering the available opposition.

Like who ??? Canelo had all choices in the world including GGG when he picked Khan, while Golovkin picked Brook as a last minute replacement.

One of the points that I argue from is that I don't care for the squabbles of millionaires.
Every fight can be made.
Stop believing proven liars.

Crazy how 20,000,000 people could want something, and 2 guys could say no, and that's that.
If that's not some medieval king shit, then what is?

[Tanzio]

The duck is nesting the goose . . . 0 . . . even though the golden egg was hatched years ago.

[boxing_rocks]

Barely a peep about how foolish ... Brook/GGG fights were,
especially considering the available opposition.

Like who ??? Canelo had all choices in the world including GGG when he picked Khan, while Golovkin picked Brook as a last minute replacement.

One of the points that I argue from is that I don't care for the squabbles of millionaires.
Every fight can be made.
Stop believing proven liars.

Crazy how 20,000,000 people could want something, and 2 guys could say no, and that's that.
If that's not some medieval king poo, then what is?

Do you have a high fever or something? Your post sounds like delirium to me.

[BAD INTENTIONS]

Do you have a high fever or something? Your post sounds like delirium to me.

Maybe.

Even though the $ aspect is stupid, I guess I can understand why GBP needs $300M. Whatever.
Feel free to charge $60 for Canelo/Smith. You can charge your price. Bad for the sport, but whatever.

What I can't comprehend is how these guys are allowed to control our entire boxing experience.
Money is one thing, but professional boxing for the last 10 or so years has been what Arum, Haymon and GBP wanted it to be.

And it sucked.

How many people are really stopping Canelo/GGG?
How many people are really stopping Kovalev/Stevenson?

I just find it strange how we as fans are just comfortable with a sport run by these guys.
It's like a bad WWE commissioner. Instead it's real life and that makes it extra sad.

[boxing_rocks]

We are not comfortable, but it is better than nothing. I am kinda surprised that in soft, politically correct Western countries people are allowed to beat crap out of each other in public.

[Cygnus475]

Very good read. You made some very valid points shared by many respected members here. Your English is excellent btw.

This is exactly why combat sports need to be like every other sport. People are getting absolutely sick and tired of these guys ducking each other for easy paychecks. I have no sympathy for Oscar letting his business plummet and trying to pull a may vs pac to milk out his cash cow. That means absolutely nothing to me as a fight fan.

As much as people talk smack about Canelo, it is definitely true he pushed for those difficult fights with Trout, Lara, etc. He seems to be frustrated too. If Oscar doesn't get it together his main attraction will leave him just like Ortiz did a few weeks ago. Canelo is a very proud, emotional, man and loves representing his country. He has his breaking point and won't tolerate having his own countrymen bash him.