Canelo is still the Lineal MW Champion of the World? HUH? Excuse me? What did i miss?

[crusader]

My post wasn't directed to anyone specific....I was just hoping to get feedback from those who knew more about the Erdei situation. I assumed that Erdei's title was considered vacant because he moved to CW for a fight, but in that case I wasn't sure why Canelo was still considered MW champ when he fought for a JMW title. I was thinking it must relate to one moving up while the other moved down, but using that difference as a justification for Canelo keeping his title while Erdei didn't relies on assuming that there are no lower limits to divisions, and in that case a bout between two men weighing 168 could still conceivably be for a LHW title.

[Covfefe]

My post wasn't directed to anyone specific....I was just hoping to get feedback from those who knew more about the Erdei situation. I assumed that Erdei's title was considered vacant because he moved to CW for a fight, but in that case I wouldn't be sure why Canelo was still considered MW champ when he fought for a JMW title. I was thinking it must relate to one moving up while the other moved down, but using that difference as a justification for Canelo keeping his title relies on assuming that there are no lower limits to divisions, and in that case a bout between two men weighing 168 could still conceivably for a LHW title.

Was the lineal middleweight title considered on the line against Smith? I didn't see it but I didn't think so.

I have to say I'm surprised the title went through Erdei, I assumed Dawson got it through Johnson or Tarver.

[crusader]

I'm not really sure what the consensus on Canelo-Smith is....I guess not many talked about it because there was very little doubt that Canelo would be keeping it regardless.

I have been confused about the 175 lineage for years and still am

[Tanzio]

I'm not really sure what the consensus on Canelo-Smith is....I guess not many talked about it because there was very little doubt that Canelo would be keeping it regardless.

I have been confused about the 175 lineage for years and still am

I buy everything but I didn't buy GingerHead v Smith, although GingerHead makes my wife wet.

[Ruthless-RKO]

Canelo is the lineal middleweight champion of the world. Adonis Steohenson is still also the lineal light heavyweight champion.

Explain how Adonis got that crown...a case could be made for Ward...albeit one that's convoluted...

Simple. He beat Chad Dawson, who was the reigning Lineal champion via first round knockout. No one has beaten Stevenson since.

[Boxing Prospect]

Canelo is the lineal middleweight champion of the world. Adonis Steohenson is still also the lineal light heavyweight champion.

Explain how Adonis got that crown...a case could be made for Ward...albeit one that's convoluted...

Simple. He beat Chad Dawson, who was the reigning Lineal champion via first round knockout. No one has beaten Stevenson since.

And Dawson took the line from Erdei when? No one had beaten "the man who beat the man who..." until Grachev did it against Erdei

[Covfefe]

Explain how Adonis got that crown...a case could be made for Ward...albeit one that's convoluted...

Simple. He beat Chad Dawson, who was the reigning Lineal champion via first round knockout. No one has beaten Stevenson since.

And Dawson took the line from Erdei when? No one had beaten "the man who beat the man who..." until Grachev did it against Erdei

Erdei retired after winning the cruiserweight title, thus giving up any claim to the lineal light heavyweight title.

[dickbelden]

160 or less---CANELO beat COTTO---175 or less WARD beat EDWIN RODRIGUEZ

[crusader]

Did Erdei officially announce his retirement prior to losing? I can't find an official statement, and there's a 2010 article from fightnews.com in which he claims that he was misquoted about retiring, and that he would continue with the right offers.

[Covfefe]

Did Erdei officially announce his retirement prior to losing? I can't find an official statement, and there's a 2010 article from fightnews.com in which he claims that he was misquoted about retiring, and that he would continue with the right offers.

All the googling I did last night indicating he was retiring but came out to fight for Lou Dibella.

[Covfefe]

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2010/11/14/sp ... ghter.html

http://www.secondsout.com/usa-boxing-ne ... ull-report

http://www.espn.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=5699415

All say he's coming out of retirement, so he did retire, albeit briefly.

[crusader]

I found this article suggesting that he thinks he was misquoted about retiring: http://www.fightnews.com/Boxing/zsolt-e ... date-45657

I notice he had nearly two years off before the start of that SMW tournament, although I believe that was down to him pulling out of fights with injury rather than temporarily quitting.

[Covfefe]

I found this article suggesting that he thinks he was misquoted about retiring: http://www.fightnews.com/Boxing/zsolt-e ... date-45657

I notice he had nearly two years off before the start of that SMW tournament, although I believe that was down to him pulling out of fights with injury rather than temporarily quitting.

There's not much to go on there, hia manager is quoted in one of those articles saying he retired for six months. Though reading between the lines I get the impression he was seeing out a contract and looking for something else.

[Purse Bid Shakedown]

Ok Canelo is lineal but is he the worst lineal champ ever? Wins and defends at 155, vacates to avoid his mandatory, drops back down in weight. Says body not ready for the weight.

[Badhusker]

Right, a bout was fought over 175, so the difference between Erdei and Canelo is that Canelo stayed under the MW limit. Why does that matter though?

If we use that difference to justify Canelo keeping his lineal status while Erdei lost his, aren't we going by the 'no lower limit to weight classes' principle, and hence don't we have to acknowledge that a bout between two 168 pound men can still count as a LHW title fight if one is champion?

That is beyond stupidity, I can't even be arsed to explain why that's idiotic.

Fascinating insight. Do the Middle East next.

[Syntax Error]

Look; let's stop the bickering once & for all!

Wilt Chamberlain is the lineal MW champion & that's it.

And on that bombshell...........................

[GPTM1403]

Not as long as Canelo is fighting at or around middleweight. U less he goes up and has no intention of coming back down.

Canelo's "lineage" becomes irrelevant when Golovkin is an undisputed champion.

You can't just make things up as you want. As long as Canelo is fighting around middleweight he is the lineal champion. Unless he loses it in the ring, retires or leaves the division for good he will be the lineal champion of the division. Being the lineal champion doesn't make you the best in the division, it just means you're the man who beat the man, just because you don't like it doesn't mean you can change long established criteria for how a lineal championship is won, lost or reinstated.

But the point still stands that the term lineal champion is now totally irrelevant in this case since he ditched any physical signs of being a middleweight champion and refuses to fight within the limits. Yes people can keep calling him the lineal champion but they need to stop doing it as though it has any meaning or value.

[Othro]

Canelo is the lineal middleweight champion of the world. Adonis Steohenson is still also the lineal light heavyweight champion.

Explain how Adonis got that crown...a case could be made for Ward...albeit one that's convoluted...

The Ward fight was at 168 .

Adonis got that crown by knocking out Dawson.

[Boxing Prospect]

Canelo is the lineal middleweight champion of the world. Adonis Steohenson is still also the lineal light heavyweight champion.

Explain how Adonis got that crown...a case could be made for Ward...albeit one that's convoluted...

The Ward fight was at 168 .

Adonis got that crown by knocking out Dawson.

Division's don't ACTUALLY have a bottom limit, as seen in various bouts in the past. Meaning everything fought under 175 should continue the "man who beat the man" line. Dawson never beat anyone along the Erdei line. Starting a line with the Dawson/Pascal winner seems a strange place to start with Erdei making his return just 3 months later. Ring Magazine title might have been on the line but Ring refused to accept Dariusz as the linear champion in the first place.

[boxing_rocks]

Explain how Adonis got that crown...a case could be made for Ward...albeit one that's convoluted...

The Ward fight was at 168 .

Adonis got that crown by knocking out Dawson.

Division's don't ACTUALLY have a bottom limit, as seen in various bouts in the past. Meaning everything fought under 175 should continue the "man who beat the man" line. Dawson never beat anyone along the Erdei line. Starting a line with the Dawson/Pascal winner seems a strange place to start with Erdei making his return just 3 months later. Ring Magazine title might have been on the line but Ring refused to accept Dariusz as the linear champion in the first place.

Situations like this illustrate how meaningless lineal and Ring titles are.

[SFW]

So you weren't talking to me in that post about Zsolt Erdei? Who were you talking too then? As you'd just asked me about him, I'd just replied and no one else mentioned him.

I think it's treated differently because usually a fighter moves up through necessity rather than just for fun, though it isn't all that uncommon these days but was more so in the past.

Ward can't count as a LHW fight, the SMW titles were on the line, and Dawson was forced to weigh below 168.

Actually Dawson wasn't forced to do anything. He called out Ward and he was the one who said at 168lbs. Ward held him to it, and beat him silly. Dawson is not the brightest crayon in the box.

[crusader]

Today shows another case of lineal confusion. Some people, including Rafael, saying Linares-Crolla for the lineal title because it's the number one vs two, yet many outlets don't have them ranked as such (e.g. USA Today, Boxing Monthly, The Ring, Boxing Scene, TBRB, Fight News), nor do computerized rankings like BoxRec and PBO.

[zorndeslammes]

Canelo is the lineal middleweight champion of the world. Adonis Steohenson is still also the lineal light heavyweight champion.

Andre Ward is actually the linear light heavyweight champion. You can go two ways with it, even, and both bring you to the same place. Arguing you can forfeit an imaginary title by retiring, even if the retirement doesn't last a calendar year, is frankly uproarious.

[Covfefe]

Canelo is the lineal middleweight champion of the world. Adonis Steohenson is still also the lineal light heavyweight champion.

Andre Ward is actually the linear light heavyweight champion. You can go two ways with it, even, and both bring you to the same place. Arguing you can forfeit an imaginary title by retiring, even if the retirement doesn't last a calendar year, is frankly uproarious.

Actually no it's not, it's the long held criteria for stripping someone of the title. You can't judge how long someone will be retiring for, and a fights between the number one and number two could happen at Any time after that.

[boxing_rocks]

Canelo is the lineal middleweight champion of the world. Adonis Steohenson is still also the lineal light heavyweight champion.

Andre Ward is actually the linear light heavyweight champion. You can go two ways with it, even, and both bring you to the same place. Arguing you can forfeit an imaginary title by retiring, even if the retirement doesn't last a calendar year, is frankly uproarious.

He is also a Son of God, p4p #1 and a Nobel Prize winner.