Who was the better World Heavyweight Champion?

[pundit]

I like Lewis better as a fighter, but as a champ it has to be Marciano. Marciano didn't lose to the Rahman's and McCall's of his world.

P

[barry]

>>>Lewis didn't lose to the Roland LaStarzas of the world.<<<

True, Lewis lost to weaker fighters!

Also, you failed to use proper grammar yet again. It is supposed to be "LaStarza's," not “LaStarzas!”

[BoxBuzz]

What? The improper use of the possessive case semantics regarding english grammar? On BoxRec? This calls for serious consequences.
barry your lettin him off too easy here.

Decagon....get down and give me 25 push ups. And then let's see that apostrophe/possessive sign properly utilized in the future.

Oh and and it's not a good idea to confuse me with graphics, it took me way too long to figure out that dive reference on the "greatest chin" thread. If it hadn't been for your further assistance in that matter along with Jaclem's comments I would still be working on that complex and difficult reference.

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

Lewis didn't lose to the Roland LaStarzas of the world.

i agree with barry, lewis lost to worst fighters than lastarza!



also rocky didnt lose to lastrarza. how would u know he lost? did u ever see the fight?

[BoxBuzz]

It was probably as close a fight as Rocky ever had. But not a loss.

[thunderfromdownunder]

As a Lewis fan I would say Lewis. As you point out Lewis dominated for longer. However Marciano beat everyone in front of him and being an undefeated champion is something. However if they fought I would say Lewis would win on points or maybe, just maybe KO Marciano but that would be tough. I just can't see Marciano beating Lewis. But does being undefeated necessarily mean that you are better than someone else? I don't think so. And is Marciano's era better than the one Lewis fought in?
I think too much is made of Lewis defeats because he avenged them which is what all great champions do. Tyson getting beat by Douglas was a bigger upset but this doesn't seem to sway people away from Tyson's feats as champion. McCall and Rahman may have been 2nd rate but you can't deny they could both hit.

As regards Lewis defeats I think the McCall fight was stopped way too early. Lewis was a young fighter, hadn't been in lots of tough fights and had never been knocked down. He got up, on shaky legs yes, but he got up. Why don't people ever mentiont that? They always say he got Koed twice. Look at boxers who were in alot worse condition and took more punishment than Lewis and were allowed to continue. I'm seen refs literally drag fighters up off the floor. Lewis gets knocked down for the first time and the ref stops it. Thats a bit suspious to me.

As for the Rahman KO that punch would have Koed any HW in history including Ali, Marciano, Tyson etc. Lewis was winning the fight and got caught by a sucker punch. That can happen to anyone including the best.
No-one makes a deal of the fact that every time Tyson was knocked down he lost. Exactly like Lewis. Too me that says one thing - You have to KO them to beat them. Thats shows they are tough!

Louis was Koed by Schemling in a big upset. Does that take away from what he achieved? No. If you take Tyson-Douglas, Louis-Schemling, Lewis-McCall and Lewis-Rahman and look at the bettinbg which were the biggest upsets? Also where were Douglas, McCall, Rahman and Schemling ranked when they fought the champions. Getting beaten by an outsider shouldn't take away from a boxers achievements especially if they avenge those defeats (Robinson v Turpin is a good example).

Overall you could say Marciano was a better champion because he was undeated but Lewis reigned for longer, had more defences and I think he would beat Marciano.

true, true and true
good post.

[Collins2000]

As a Lewis fan I would say Lewis. As you point out Lewis dominated for longer. However Marciano beat everyone in front of him and being an undefeated champion is something. However if they fought I would say Lewis would win on points or maybe, just maybe KO Marciano but that would be tough. I just can't see Marciano beating Lewis. But does being undefeated necessarily mean that you are better than someone else? I don't think so. And is Marciano's era better than the one Lewis fought in?
I think too much is made of Lewis defeats because he avenged them which is what all great champions do. Tyson getting beat by Douglas was a bigger upset but this doesn't seem to sway people away from Tyson's feats as champion. McCall and Rahman may have been 2nd rate but you can't deny they could both hit.

As regards Lewis defeats I think the McCall fight was stopped way too early. Lewis was a young fighter, hadn't been in lots of tough fights and had never been knocked down. He got up, on shaky legs yes, but he got up. Why don't people ever mentiont that? They always say he got Koed twice. Look at boxers who were in alot worse condition and took more punishment than Lewis and were allowed to continue. I'm seen refs literally drag fighters up off the floor. Lewis gets knocked down for the first time and the ref stops it. Thats a bit suspious to me.

As for the Rahman KO that punch would have Koed any HW in history including Ali, Marciano, Tyson etc. Lewis was winning the fight and got caught by a sucker punch. That can happen to anyone including the best.
No-one makes a deal of the fact that every time Tyson was knocked down he lost. Exactly like Lewis. Too me that says one thing - You have to KO them to beat them. Thats shows they are tough!

Louis was Koed by Schemling in a big upset. Does that take away from what he achieved? No. If you take Tyson-Douglas, Louis-Schemling, Lewis-McCall and Lewis-Rahman and look at the bettinbg which were the biggest upsets? Also where were Douglas, McCall, Rahman and Schemling ranked when they fought the champions. Getting beaten by an outsider shouldn't take away from a boxers achievements especially if they avenge those defeats (Robinson v Turpin is a good example).

Overall you could say Marciano was a better champion because he was undeated but Lewis reigned for longer, had more defences and I think he would beat Marciano.

true, true and true
good post.

You think so? Dig out the first McCall fight and tell me why, if Lewis was ready to continue, did he stumble forward into the ref.

[dempseyfire]

As a Lewis fan I would say Lewis. As you point out Lewis dominated for longer. However Marciano beat everyone in front of him and being an undefeated champion is something. However if they

As regards Lewis defeats I think the McCall fight was stopped way too early. Lewis was a young fighter, hadn't been in lots of tough fights and had never been knocked down. He got up, on shaky legs yes, but he got up.

As for the Rahman KO that punch would have Koed any HW in history including Ali, Marciano, Tyson etc. Lewis was winning the fight and got caught by a sucker punch. !

.

That is complete crap. An old Holyfield took SEVERAL FLUSH right hands from Hasim without even blinkingm including one with a semi-running start just like Lennox did in S. Africa.

The likes of Al Cole, Obed Sullivan, and Oleg Masgaev took the best Rahman could offer. This whole "Rahman's KO punch of Lewis would've taken out Ali" is BS, plain and simple.

All time great fighters suck it up and don't lose to the B and C level fighters just b/c they're having a bad night. Holmes (vs Weaver and Snipes) Ali (vs Lyle and Bonavena) Louis (Godoy 1 and Conn) and Marciano (Charles 11, Moore) were able to rough it out on their bad nights and get the W (please don't compare Hasim Rahman to Max Schmeling . . .that's all I'll say to that) Lewis looked like crap vs Rahman . . .it was an even fight and he let himself get clocked. And as another poster said, even if you get up, falling into the referee is not gonna get him to let the fight continue a la McCall. Lewis could suck it up as shown vs Bruno but in many fights in which there were close fights he allowed himself to lose the final round or rounds (Holyfield 11, Mercer) and to generally get outworked. That's not what all time great fighters do He is what I'd call a 'periphery' great but not in the league of the all time greats like Marciano or Ali.

[Seamus]

I'd still love to see that big punch of Rahman's land flush on James Toney.

[Arsenal]

Lewis may have been stumbling but his eyes were clear and thats the most important thing. I've seen fighters in alot worse state than Lewis and the ref allowing it to continue. I've seen refs literally drag fighters off the floor. How many times have fights gone on far too long and after people say the fight should have been stopped earlier? Lewis got up and was shaky but he was World champion for christs sake, should he not have been given a chance to continue? The ref could have let him continue and stopped it if he didn't recover. It was the first time he was knocked down, he was young and he hadn't been in loads of tough fights and taken alot of punishment. Its crap that some people think that punch that Rahman caught Lewis with wasn't good! Rahman may have caught other people flush on the chin but with nothing like what he caught Lewis with.

[BoxBuzz]

As a Lewis fan I would say Lewis. As you point out Lewis dominated for longer. However Marciano beat everyone in front of him and being an undefeated champion is something. However if they

As regards Lewis defeats I think the McCall fight was stopped way too early. Lewis was a young fighter, hadn't been in lots of tough fights and had never been knocked down. He got up, on shaky legs yes, but he got up.

As for the Rahman KO that punch would have Koed any HW in history including Ali, Marciano, Tyson etc. Lewis was winning the fight and got caught by a sucker punch. !

.

That is complete crap. An old Holyfield took SEVERAL FLUSH right hands from Hasim without even blinkingm including one with a semi-running start just like Lennox did in S. Africa.

The likes of Al Cole, Obed Sullivan, and Oleg Masgaev took the best Rahman could offer. This whole "Rahman's KO punch of Lewis would've taken out Ali" is BS, plain and simple.

All time great fighters suck it up and don't lose to the B and C level fighters just b/c they're having a bad night. Holmes (vs Weaver and Snipes) Ali (vs Lyle and Bonavena) Louis (Godoy 1 and Conn) and Marciano (Charles 11, Moore) were able to rough it out on their bad nights and get the W (please don't compare Hasim Rahman to Max Schmeling . . .that's all I'll say to that) Lewis looked like crap vs Rahman . . .it was an even fight and he let himself get clocked. And as another poster said, even if you get up, falling into the referee is not gonna get him to let the fight continue a la McCall. Lewis could suck it up as shown vs Bruno but in many fights in which there were close fights he allowed himself to lose the final round or rounds (Holyfield 11, Mercer) and to generally get outworked. That's not what all time great fighters do He is what I'd call a 'periphery' great but not in the league of the all time greats like Marciano or Ali.

I'm strugglin with the crediblity of that Rahman statement as well. I think that is a punch that a few former champs might have weathered. Not to mention the odds that some would have slipped it altogether.

[Expug]

Question, Was it a lead right hand that Rahman nailed Lewis with or was it set up with a jab. I dont remember.

[Arsenal]

Don't let the fact that you don't like Lewis or don't rate him get in the way of the fact that the Rahman punch was an absolute sledgehammer. I agree about slipping it. If Lewis was in better shape and had taken the fight more seriously then I don't think he would have been caught by that punch. But you are being totally blinkered if you think that that punch wouldn't have KOed most HW's including the best ones.

[Expug]

Lewis showed something when he came back and Knocked out Rahman in their rematch, no question. Its tough to come back and k.o. a fighter that did the same to you earlier. For whatever reason, Lewis didnt have his head in it the rirst time around vs. Rahman. But he came back and made it right.

[Arsenal]

Expug has far has I remember Lewis was against the ropes, smiling at Rahman with his left hand low. Rahman from a low position and with lots of forward momentum threw a big right hander that landed flush on Lewis' jaw. When he came around Lewis asked who had won!

[Collins2000]

Lewis may have been stumbling but his eyes were clear and thats the most important thing. I've seen fighters in alot worse state than Lewis and the ref allowing it to continue. I've seen refs literally drag fighters off the floor. How many times have fights gone on far too long and after people say the fight should have been stopped earlier? Lewis got up and was shaky but he was World champion for christs sake, should he not have been given a chance to continue? The ref could have let him continue and stopped it if he didn't recover. It was the first time he was knocked down, he was young and he hadn't been in loads of tough fights and taken alot of punishment. Its crap that some people think that punch that Rahman caught Lewis with wasn't good! Rahman may have caught other people flush on the chin but with nothing like what he caught Lewis with.

Mate, he was more than shaky. The ref looked to be ready to let it go on and then Lennox stumbled into him and that was that!

I like Lennox. He seems like a nice guy.

But just because he's a nice guy and claimed to be a Brit doesn't mean he should get preferential treatment.

[walshb]

I don't give a damn what anyone says, Lewis was clean KO'd by two very very average fighters, for all his physical advantages he was unimpressive, barely beat an over the hill small Holyfield. Rocky was without doubt the better champ, more balls, heat, stamina and just way tougher...