Question regarding rules in early 20th century

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 28 Feb 2006, 16:21

IrishRufusMurphy claims that it was legal in professional boxing at the time of the Willard - Dempsey fight to hit a man who was on one knee.

I say this is bullshit. The rules at the time were that you couldn't strike a man who was on one knee.

What do the experts on this era say?

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 28 Feb 2006, 16:46

You are correct. It was not legal to strike an opponent when they were on one knee. I think he was confusing this with the rule implemented during the 20's that required a fighter to go to a neutral corner when theer opponent was knocked down.

Of course that rule doesn't always seem to be consistently enforced.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 28 Feb 2006, 16:49

I am only familiar with two sets of rules govening Proffesional Boxing. The Old London Prize Ring Rules which allowed wrestling type throws ,hip tosses etc. And the Marquis of Queensberry rules in which punching with the fist was the only way to score. However in the early days of the Queensbeery rules, there was no neutral corner rule,a fighter could stand over his opponent after he knocked him down and wait until he was off the canvas to hit him again. To the best of my knowledge, this means knees off the ground. I am not awar of any rule stating its O.K. to hit an opponent while he had a knee on the ground. Thats not to say it hasnt happened but I think it has been against the rules at least since the late 1800s when the Queensbeery rules came along.

mattyp151 · Post by **mattyp151** » 28 Feb 2006, 16:49

The Great John L wrote:You are correct. It was not legal to strike an opponent when they were on one knee. I think he was confusing this with the rule implemented during the 20's that required a fighter to go to a neutral corner when theer opponent was knocked down.

Of course that rule doesn't always seem to be consistently enforced.

Ali certainly wasn't forced right away to go to a corner when he downed Liston....thus the pose....

http://www.starstore.com/acatalog/Muham ... ston_L.jpg

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 28 Feb 2006, 16:54

Mattyp151 wrote:Ali certainly wasn't forced right away to go to a corner when he downed Liston....thus the pose....

And watch rnd 15 of Ali-Bonavena if you want to see Ali's best impression of Dempsey hovering over Willard. Some transgressions never seem to get mentioned.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 28 Feb 2006, 17:02

Good call John L. I just watched that fight the other night and noticed the same thing.

mattyp151 · Post by **mattyp151** » 28 Feb 2006, 17:05

The Great John L wrote:
Mattyp151 wrote:Ali certainly wasn't forced right away to go to a corner when he downed Liston....thus the pose....
And watch rnd 15 of Ali-Bonavena if you want to see Ali's best impression of Dempsey hovering over Willard. Some transgressions never seem to get mentioned.

I think that fights been on ESPN classic 6 times this year already.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 28 Feb 2006, 17:07

While Ali was clearly winning, Ringo had put some hurt on him during the fight, and once Ali had him down it looked like he was trying real hard to make sure Ringo didn't get back up. Like most great fighters, Ali was quite adept at "bending" the rules.

mattyp151 · Post by **mattyp151** » 28 Feb 2006, 17:10

The Great John L wrote:While Ali was clearly winning, Ringo had put some hurt on him during the fight, and once Ali had him down it looked like he was trying real hard to make sure Ringo didn't get back up. Like most great fighters, Ali was quite adept at "bending" the rules.

It's those damn American Refs and their no holds barred rules....

Musashi · Post by **Musashi** » 28 Feb 2006, 17:12

Mattyp151 wrote:
The Great John L wrote:You are correct. It was not legal to strike an opponent when they were on one knee. I think he was confusing this with the rule implemented during the 20's that required a fighter to go to a neutral corner when theer opponent was knocked down.

Of course that rule doesn't always seem to be consistently enforced.
Ali certainly wasn't forced right away to go to a corner when he downed Liston....thus the pose....

http://www.starstore.com/acatalog/Muham ... ston_L.jpg

This might also have had to do with the fact that Walcott had no idea what to do when Ali did "knock" Liston down.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 28 Feb 2006, 17:12

Mattyp151 wrote:It's those damn American Refs and their no holds barred rules....

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 28 Feb 2006, 17:54

Mattyp151 wrote:
The Great John L wrote:
Mattyp151 wrote:Ali certainly wasn't forced right away to go to a corner when he downed Liston....thus the pose....
And watch rnd 15 of Ali-Bonavena if you want to see Ali's best impression of Dempsey hovering over Willard. Some transgressions never seem to get mentioned.
I think that fights been on ESPN classic 6 times this year already.

I may be wrong about this, but I thought I heard that ESPN had purchased Jim Jacobs library of fights. A huge collection. Why than, do they constantly show the same fights? Anyone have any info on this?

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 01 Mar 2006, 16:08

expug wrote:
Mattyp151 wrote:
The Great John L wrote: And watch rnd 15 of Ali-Bonavena if you want to see Ali's best impression of Dempsey hovering over Willard. Some transgressions never seem to get mentioned.
I think that fights been on ESPN classic 6 times this year already.
I may be wrong about this, but I thought I heard that ESPN had purchased Jim Jacobs library of fights. A huge collection. Why than, do they constantly show the same fights? Anyone have any info on this?

Maybe they get good ratings for the 300+ showings of Tyson v Jameson?

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 01 Mar 2006, 16:13

Ali - Wepner as well as Ali Jurgin Blinn, have been well represented of late as well.

mattyp151 · Post by **mattyp151** » 01 Mar 2006, 16:13

The Great John L wrote:
expug wrote:
Mattyp151 wrote: I think that fights been on ESPN classic 6 times this year already.
I may be wrong about this, but I thought I heard that ESPN had purchased Jim Jacobs library of fights. A huge collection. Why than, do they constantly show the same fights? Anyone have any info on this?
Maybe they get good ratings for the 300+ showings of Tyson v Jameson?

I think I've seen Tyson vs Alderson about 65 times in my life now.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 01 Mar 2006, 19:52

The rules of the early 6th century were far more brutal. I hated the idea that the crowd could signal henchmen to throw boiling oil on fighters who were not performing up to expectations.

However this is an idea who's time may have arrived.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 01 Mar 2006, 19:57

Another interesting and Im sure entertaining trait of 19th and 18th century bare knuckle bouts is the tendency of the fighters handlers A.K.A. entourage to storm the ring when things arent going well for their battler.I could see this becoming fashionable again.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 01 Mar 2006, 20:02

shades of Golata/Bowe

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 01 Mar 2006, 20:05

BoxBuzz wrote:shades of Golata/Bowe

I wonder what the oldtimers used to beat each other with, cell phones werent invented yet.