If Roy Jones Retired 49-1 in 2003 where would you rank him all time?

Ruthless-RKO · Post by **Ruthless-RKO** » 06 Oct 2016, 04:56

I was thinking about this the other day. Hypothetically where do you think Roy Jones ranks all time if he had retired after Tarver I. On natural talent alone he is top 5 (maybe top 3) ever in my humble opinion.

Would he be in the argument for GOAT.

caldo2025 · Post by **caldo2025** » 06 Oct 2016, 05:45

That would mean that RJJJR would have retired at only 34 years old without many significant fights on his resume. I think that fans wouldn't feel satisfied at all with his career but we'd all marvel at the talent we saw in the ring against inferior competition. Sure, he beat Bhop and a couple other good boxers at MW but let's be honest, GGG's level of opposition thus far has been way more competitive than RJJR's era.

Once a boxer is knocked out, they are never the same. I'm actually surprised how well Manny has done since his KO but i have a feeling that we might see him KO'd next month. Roy definitely has stayed in the game way too long and rusted up his legacy but I'd say whether he retired at 34 or not, he's still one of the most talented MW's i've ever seen. Is he an ATG? I'd say "maybe". Just can't overlook what happened after 2003. It happened.

lazboy · Post by **lazboy** » 06 Oct 2016, 06:02

Endless mostly positive speculation. No one knew his chin was questionable. It would be a question but an unanswered one. But now...he's just a human.

Give up · Post by **Give up** » 06 Oct 2016, 06:10

Ruthless-RKO wrote:I was thinking about this the other day. Hypothetically where do you think Roy Jones ranks all time if he had retired after Tarver I. On natural talent alone he is top 5 (maybe top 3) ever in my humble opinion.

Would he be in the argument for GOAT.

Sure

lazboy · Post by **lazboy** » 06 Oct 2016, 06:31

I think you're being a bit harsh on Roy he beat hopkins,James toney and mike McCallum 3 exceptional fighters GGG hasn't got anyone near those fighters on his record[/quote]

Yea mate I agree not to mention jumping weigh classes. But at middle defeating 1 hall of famer and two future hof. Honestly though McCallum was past it and gave Roy a decent go.

SaadOffTheDeck · Post by **SaadOffTheDeck** » 06 Oct 2016, 07:26

Same place I rank him now, top 30-50.

jezzamundo · Post by **jezzamundo** » 06 Oct 2016, 07:37

I agree that on talent alone, he's right up there.

However, most people don't make ATG lists based on talent alone. For me, everything that has happened since his KO loss to Glen Johnson has had zero effect on his legacy and his all time standing. Up until his first KO loss, his chin was a question mark. The following two fights and KO losses confirmed that Jones's chin wasn't of the highest standard. Ali was like Roy Jones in that he had amazing natural ability, and lacking fundamentals, but he had the chin to get away with it. Roy didn't. This leads me to believe that the most of the ATG light heavyweights probably would have knocked RJJ out. I'd certainly favour Charles, Moore, Foster and Spinks to beat him.

No, he shouldn't be in the argument for GOAT - there are fighters in his own era with far better legacies (Floyd, Manny and Bhop, possibly Whitaker too). That said, he is probably the best super middleweight since the division was created.

zorndeslammes · Post by **zorndeslammes** » 06 Oct 2016, 08:08

Doesn't change anything really except that it makes the complaints about his refusal to fight outside the US (and primarily in FL) ring much louder.

IKSRTFO · Post by **IKSRTFO** » 06 Oct 2016, 09:22

caldo2025 wrote:That would mean that RJJJR would have retired at only 34 years old without many significant fights on his resume. I think that fans wouldn't feel satisfied at all with his career but we'd all marvel at the talent we saw in the ring against inferior competition. Sure, he beat Bhop and a couple other good boxers at MW but let's be honest, GGG's level of opposition thus far has been way more competitive than RJJR's era.

Once a boxer is knocked out, they are never the same. I'm actually surprised how well Manny has done since his KO but i have a feeling that we might see him KO'd next month. Roy definitely has stayed in the game way too long and rusted up his legacy but I'd say whether he retired at 34 or not, he's still one of the most talented MW's i've ever seen. Is he an ATG? I'd say "maybe". Just can't overlook what happened after 2003. It happened.

So Bernard Hopkins, Virgil Hill and James Toney aren't significant? Remember, his 50th win was the Antonio Tarver fight which says W in the record books. Honestly, his fights after 2003 aren't really as significant.

Other decent victories:
Clinton Woods
Montell Griffin
Mike Mcallum

diddy · Post by **diddy** » 06 Oct 2016, 12:39

caldo2025 wrote:That would mean that RJJJR would have retired at only 34 years old without many significant fights on his resume. I think that fans wouldn't feel satisfied at all with his career but we'd all marvel at the talent we saw in the ring against inferior competition. Sure, he beat Bhop and a couple other good boxers at MW but let's be honest, GGG's level of opposition thus far has been way more competitive than RJJR's era.

Once a boxer is knocked out, they are never the same. I'm actually surprised how well Manny has done since his KO but i have a feeling that we might see him KO'd next month. Roy definitely has stayed in the game way too long and rusted up his legacy but I'd say whether he retired at 34 or not, he's still one of the most talented MW's i've ever seen. Is he an ATG? I'd say "maybe". Just can't overlook what happened after 2003. It happened.

This is one of the DUMBEST things I've EVER seen written. GGG's level of opposition has been better than Jones?! GGGs best win is...David fn Lemieux. Jones beat JAMES TONEY and BERNARD HOPKINS. Mike McCallum would trash all of GGGs opponents. Montel Griffin would beat them all as well.

Never post again.

gilgamesh · Post by **gilgamesh** » 06 Oct 2016, 12:47

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Same place I rank him now, top 30-50.

Agreed. His past-prime downfall doesn't affect my overall view of his career. Same as Holyfield. There's enough video of the guy in his prime to be able to see clearly when he lost a step and wasn't the same fighter anymore. Especially seeing how far he dropped off so quickly after dropping back down to Light Heavyweight.

Ricky_ · Post by **Ricky_** » 06 Oct 2016, 13:28

diddy wrote:
caldo2025 wrote:That would mean that RJJJR would have retired at only 34 years old without many significant fights on his resume. I think that fans wouldn't feel satisfied at all with his career but we'd all marvel at the talent we saw in the ring against inferior competition. Sure, he beat Bhop and a couple other good boxers at MW but let's be honest, GGG's level of opposition thus far has been way more competitive than RJJR's era.

Once a boxer is knocked out, they are never the same. I'm actually surprised how well Manny has done since his KO but i have a feeling that we might see him KO'd next month. Roy definitely has stayed in the game way too long and rusted up his legacy but I'd say whether he retired at 34 or not, he's still one of the most talented MW's i've ever seen. Is he an ATG? I'd say "maybe". Just can't overlook what happened after 2003. It happened.
This is one of the DUMBEST things I've EVER seen written. GGG's level of opposition has been better than Jones?! GGGs best win is...David fn Lemieux. Jones beat JAMES TONEY and BERNARD HOPKINS. Mike McCallum would trash all of GGGs opponents. Montel Griffin would beat them all as well.

Never post again.

True, but Golovkin is better than Roy Jones.

gilgamesh · Post by **gilgamesh** » 06 Oct 2016, 13:31

Ricky_ wrote:
diddy wrote:
caldo2025 wrote:That would mean that RJJJR would have retired at only 34 years old without many significant fights on his resume. I think that fans wouldn't feel satisfied at all with his career but we'd all marvel at the talent we saw in the ring against inferior competition. Sure, he beat Bhop and a couple other good boxers at MW but let's be honest, GGG's level of opposition thus far has been way more competitive than RJJR's era.

Once a boxer is knocked out, they are never the same. I'm actually surprised how well Manny has done since his KO but i have a feeling that we might see him KO'd next month. Roy definitely has stayed in the game way too long and rusted up his legacy but I'd say whether he retired at 34 or not, he's still one of the most talented MW's i've ever seen. Is he an ATG? I'd say "maybe". Just can't overlook what happened after 2003. It happened.
This is one of the DUMBEST things I've EVER seen written. GGG's level of opposition has been better than Jones?! GGGs best win is...David fn Lemieux. Jones beat JAMES TONEY and BERNARD HOPKINS. Mike McCallum would trash all of GGGs opponents. Montel Griffin would beat them all as well.

Never post again.

True, but Golovkin is better than Roy Jones.

He's got a ways to go to prove that. I'm a much bigger fan of Golovkin, but he's nowhere near proving he's better than Roy yet. He'd need at least 4 or 5 major wins on his resume for it to even be a serious conversation instead of just fans getting too exciting and overhyping him. I love the guy. My favorite fighter in the sport, but I'm not unrealistic about his accomplishments.

Ricky_ · Post by **Ricky_** » 06 Oct 2016, 13:38

gilgamesh wrote:
Ricky_ wrote:
diddy wrote:
This is one of the DUMBEST things I've EVER seen written. GGG's level of opposition has been better than Jones?! GGGs best win is...David fn Lemieux. Jones beat JAMES TONEY and BERNARD HOPKINS. Mike McCallum would trash all of GGGs opponents. Montel Griffin would beat them all as well.

Never post again.

True, but Golovkin is better than Roy Jones.
He's got a ways to go to prove that. I'm a much bigger fan of Golovkin, but he's nowhere near proving he's better than Roy yet. He'd need at least 4 or 5 major wins on his resume for it to even be a serious conversation instead of just fans getting too exciting and overhyping him. I love the guy. My favorite fighter in the sport, but I'm not unrealistic about his accomplishments.

What more do you need to see really? He'll bust up Canelo in the same way he woulda wiped the floor with Roy.

gilgamesh · Post by **gilgamesh** » 06 Oct 2016, 13:50

Ricky_ wrote:
gilgamesh wrote:
Ricky_ wrote:

True, but Golovkin is better than Roy Jones.
He's got a ways to go to prove that. I'm a much bigger fan of Golovkin, but he's nowhere near proving he's better than Roy yet. He'd need at least 4 or 5 major wins on his resume for it to even be a serious conversation instead of just fans getting too exciting and overhyping him. I love the guy. My favorite fighter in the sport, but I'm not unrealistic about his accomplishments.
What more do you need to see really? He'll bust up Canelo in the same way he woulda wiped the floor with Roy.

Well he needs to beat more than 1 or 2 guys that are Top 5 in his own weight class for one thing. A guy with some name recognition for people that aren't just hardcore observers of the sport would be nice. I agree he'd beat the holy hell out of Canelo, but assuming a guy destroys somebody doesn't make it so or add it to his list of credentials.

I sincerely doubt he would've wiped the floor with Roy, though I'd love to see GGG vs The Middleweight version of Roy.

Even if he beats Jacobs, Canelo, Saunders, Lara, and some other Middleweights he'd still need something a little more to be in the conversation with Roy Jones IMO, but if he breaks the Middleweight Title defense record (which he's well on his way to doing) he'll certainly put himself in a lot more serious conversations comparing him to All Time Great fighters. He still just doesn't have the names yet. He's got gawdy title defense numbers, but the names aren't there.

IKSRTFO · Post by **IKSRTFO** » 06 Oct 2016, 15:23

Ricky_ wrote:
gilgamesh wrote:
Ricky_ wrote:

True, but Golovkin is better than Roy Jones.
He's got a ways to go to prove that. I'm a much bigger fan of Golovkin, but he's nowhere near proving he's better than Roy yet. He'd need at least 4 or 5 major wins on his resume for it to even be a serious conversation instead of just fans getting too exciting and overhyping him. I love the guy. My favorite fighter in the sport, but I'm not unrealistic about his accomplishments.
What more do you need to see really? He'll bust up Canelo in the same way he woulda wiped the floor with Roy.

But he hasn't yet. And let's be honest, Canelo isn't the level of prime Hopkins.

SaadOffTheDeck · Post by **SaadOffTheDeck** » 06 Oct 2016, 15:51

Jones never fought prime Hopkins.

diddy · Post by **diddy** » 06 Oct 2016, 17:08

90s Roy Jones would kick the sh*t out of GGG. Too fast. Way too fast.

Killer Blow · Post by **Killer Blow** » 06 Oct 2016, 17:33

He'd be the best ever in my eyes. Such a shame he didn't.

Ricky_ · Post by **Ricky_** » 06 Oct 2016, 18:22

diddy wrote:90s Roy Jones would kick the sh*t out of GGG. Too fast. Way too fast.

he'd be put to sleep.

ClivePatrickLyons · Post by **ClivePatrickLyons** » 06 Oct 2016, 19:34

Ricky_ wrote:
diddy wrote:90s Roy Jones would kick the sh*t out of GGG. Too fast. Way too fast.
he'd be put to sleep.

GGG is a monster but his style of seek and destroy and lack of DEFENCE against a freak of the time like Roy with his turbo charged 5/6/7 punch combo's thrown as fast as the FASTEST Bantamweight on the planet and his excellent judge of distance when at his best with equally fast feet would be certainly way to much for GGG..........And if Roy sailed off into the sunset while still on top with a 49-1 record he would be talked about in the same way as a p4p KING Sugar Ray Robinson and surely above his nemesis B-Hop

SaadOffTheDeck · Post by **SaadOffTheDeck** » 06 Oct 2016, 19:39

Hopkins still would have shut out the guy who knocked Roy out and fought at a world class level for over a decade after Roy retired.

ClivePatrickLyons · Post by **ClivePatrickLyons** » 06 Oct 2016, 19:51

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Hopkins still would have shut out the guy who knocked Roy out and fought at a world class level for over a decade after Roy retired.

Yes and he would still be ranked 2nd if Roy was in the house but that's IF..............Because at this time I would have B-Hop in front of Roy............. I have NEVER seen a fighter ruin his rep like Roy did

SaadOffTheDeck · Post by **SaadOffTheDeck** » 06 Oct 2016, 20:35

I had Roy ahead of him then, I don't now. Not because of anything Roy did, it's what nard did. Roy never had another big win. None of the losses after Johnson mean anything.

Killer Blow · Post by **Killer Blow** » 07 Oct 2016, 05:13

GGG would not beat prime Roy Jones LOL. It wouldn't even be close.

If Roy Jones Retired 49-1 in 2003 where would you rank him all time?

If Roy Jones Retired 49-1 in 2003 where would you rank him all time?

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