If Riddick Bowe stayed in shape. . . Could he have been great?

[Ron C]

Early on Riddick Bowe looked incredible. Even in the Olympics vs. Lennox Lewis. Bowe ate him up in the first round. That stoppage was awful. The whole fight was pure corruption. I feel like Bowe/Holyfield was also one of the best trilogies in the history of boxing. Although Holyfield coming into the rubber match very physically ill might take away from it a little. Early on in Bowe's career he looked amazing. Very exciting as well. Once he got the title though he hardly did anything after that. Coming into fights overweight, outta shape, getting fatigued. If Riddick Bowe maintained that determination he had in his first 32-34 pro fights though, I think we'd of possibly had a boxing legend on our hands here. He was really on the way up. I still have the Riddick Bowe boxing video game on all 3 consoles lol. I just wonder how great he could've been if he always stayed dedicated and focused. Once he won the belt it's like he didn't know what to do from there

[Mimmy]

If he had fought Lennox lewis rather than ducking him and throwing the WBC belt in the trash it would have been an interesting encounter, if he had beaten Lewis he could well have become a all time great. But dodging lewis just showed his worth, imo.

[Ron C]

If he had fought Lennox lewis rather than ducking him and throwing the WBC belt in the trash it would have been an interesting encounter, if he had beaten Lewis he could well have become a all time great. But dodging lewis just showed his worth, imo.

Fair. If the Bowe of his first 34 fights shows up, I think he could have beaten Lewis. But if the Bowe of Holyfield II or later shows up, I think Lewis wins.

[Mimmy]

If he had fought Lennox lewis rather than ducking him and throwing the WBC belt in the trash it would have been an interesting encounter, if he had beaten Lewis he could well have become a all time great. But dodging lewis just showed his worth, imo.

Fair. If the Bowe of his first 34 fights shows up, I think he could have beaten Lewis. But if the Bowe of Holyfield II or later shows up, I think Lewis wins.

He was a good fighter no doubt but his legacy was dodging Lewis, maybe he knew Lewis would knock him out.

[Syntax Error]

Boxing & life in general is full of what ifs & could/should haves.

Bowe should be an ATG & sadly, because of mismanagement & poor discipline, he never will be.

I guess his fridge was more powerful than his desire & dedication to his profession: let that be Riddick Bowe's legacy.

[sweetsci]

...Once he won the belt it's like he didn't know what to do from there

I felt at the time, and still do, that the reason manager Rock Newman put Bowe in the ring with Michael Dokes less than three months after winning the title in the epic battle with Holyfield was to keep him in the gym and in shape. He defended a little more than three months later against Jesse Ferguson (it was supposed to be against Mercer, as we know). Bowe was keeping busy and looking good. But he got a ton of (IMO) undeserved flack for his choice of opponents. In my view he was entitled to a gimme defense after Holyfield I. And, again, he was supposed to fight Ray Mercer in May and instead did the honorable thing in defending against Mercer's conquerer.

Then he had a layoff. When he had to wait nearly six months for the Holyfield rematch it wasn't good. Sure enough, he came in at the heaviest of his career. Newman should have pushed for the second Holyfield fight to happen in late September '93 (I don't know... maybe he did).

When Bowe fought every three to four months he was fine; longer than that was just too long out of action for a guy like Riddick Bowe.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Holyfield ruined him more than food. He won the series and lost the war. At his peak he was one of the best I've seen. Just a short peak. It happens. Great fighter, short of a great resume.

[BoxBuzz]

Not all noggins are built the same, I think he was more affected by punches than most.


Holyfield is a example of a fighter on the other end of the "affect scale". Took a lot of hits but showed little in the way neuro affect over the years.

at least graded against boxers in general.


Most championship fighters show some Traumatic Brain Injury Symptoms. Lewis and Foreman and Duran and Leonard at one end of the scale. Holyfield toward that end, and the guys like Chacon and Bowe and some others way at the other end.


Three factors.....and all come into play, hard to say for each fighter just how.

1. Good Genetics....your mama and papa gave you some great noggin genes, and you can withstand more than most. This is what probably kept Ali,Chuvalo, Mcall standing when they should have been flattened.
2. Good Defense.......you managed to steer of the most damaging shots clear despite your many encounters in the ring. Good technique, and this becomes a gift a good fighter gives to himself.
3. Happenstance....regardless of one's talents,skills and gifts mentioned above, a fighter simply (by luck of the draw) did not experience the sort of fist to head collisions it would take to do significant damage to...the individual fighter being considered.

[Bodyshot3]

I think Sweetci has raised a potentially good point in there about Rock Newman...

....I disliked Newman a great deal and have said so in the past, but his management of Bowe 9to be fair) still remains a point of contention.

Keeping Riddick busy and therefore away from distractions was perhaps Newman acting in his man's best interests and recognising that was a destructive streak there.

I

[man]

in the end a talent wasted and with
these you will never know. even the
real greats, despite being strong in
mind, were tested.

[keithmoonhangover]

Holyfield ruined him more than food. He won the series and lost the war. At his peak he was one of the best I've seen. Just a short peak. It happens. Great fighter, short of a great resume.

A short peak? As short as Tyson's or shorter?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Holyfield ruined him more than food. He won the series and lost the war. At his peak he was one of the best I've seen. Just a short peak. It happens. Great fighter, short of a great resume.

A short peak? As short as Tyson's or shorter?

Shorter, though I can't envision a scenario where Mike beats him. Just a level above.

[keithmoonhangover]

Holyfield ruined him more than food. He won the series and lost the war. At his peak he was one of the best I've seen. Just a short peak. It happens. Great fighter, short of a great resume.

A short peak? As short as Tyson's or shorter?

Shorter, though I can't envision a scenario where Mike beats him. Just a level above.

Prime Tyson would land hard and often on Bowe. Bowe had the uppercut and the inside game, but not the movement, balance and speed needed to beat Tyson. Tyson pre Bruno would be a very difficult night for any heavyweight in history. If it goes past 6 rounds maybe Bowe has a chance, but I think he's too easily hit for that to happen. I don't think Bowe ever looked unbeatable. The only heavyweight of the 80's and 90's that 100% beats Tyson prime for prime is Holyfield.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Ok, I think if you toss 'prime'Tyson against bowe if holyfield 1 Mike would likely sob. Never saw the fighter you did.

[Arco Iris]

Boxing & life in general is full of what ifs & could/should haves.

Bowe should be an ATG & sadly, because of mismanagement & poor discipline, he never will be.

I guess his fridge was more powerful than his desire & dedication to his profession: let that be Riddick Bowe's legacy.

Could not possibly agree more. Bowe was perhaps the most talented heavyweight to ever set foot in the ring. He naturally possessed a great deal of power, fast hands, good movement, a great chin, and was a surprisingly good inside fighter. Trouble with Bowe is that he lacked heart, and talent is meaningless without a work ethic. Bowe showed up in his three fights with Holyfield, but apart from that, he wasn't much. He ducked Lennox Lewis and was getting wrecked by Andrew Golota before Golota messed up his win with low blows.

[keithmoonhangover]

Shorter, though I can't envision a scenario where Mike beats him. Just a level above.

Prime Tyson would land hard and often on Bowe. Bowe had the uppercut and the inside game, but not the movement, balance and speed needed to beat Tyson. Tyson pre Bruno would be a very difficult night for any heavyweight in history. If it goes past 6 rounds maybe Bowe has a chance, but I think he's too easily hit for that to happen. I don't think Bowe ever looked unbeatable. The only heavyweight of the 80's and 90's that 100% beats Tyson prime for prime is Holyfield.

No chance. Far better for Bowe would have been Tyson as the # 1 contender as opposed to a tall " box / puncher " like Lewis. Manna from heaven for Bowe, a short stumpy guy who wants to come right at him. He would think all his Christmas's had come at once and meet fire with fire. Bowe inside 6 rounds, easily.

Whereas Douglas was happy to stop Tyson in his tracks, and wait for him to come again, Bowe wouldn't. He would hurt him on the inside, and follow it up with more punishment.

Peak Bowe struggled with Holyfield. Peak Tyson struggled with no one. If we are talking peak for both, then we are talking Tyson before Bruno. When was Bowe's peak exactly?

[Syntax Error]

Prime Tyson would land hard and often on Bowe. Bowe had the uppercut and the inside game, but not the movement, balance and speed needed to beat Tyson. Tyson pre Bruno would be a very difficult night for any heavyweight in history. If it goes past 6 rounds maybe Bowe has a chance, but I think he's too easily hit for that to happen. I don't think Bowe ever looked unbeatable. The only heavyweight of the 80's and 90's that 100% beats Tyson prime for prime is Holyfield.

No chance. Far better for Bowe would have been Tyson as the # 1 contender as opposed to a tall " box / puncher " like Lewis. Manna from heaven for Bowe, a short stumpy guy who wants to come right at him. He would think all his Christmas's had come at once and meet fire with fire. Bowe inside 6 rounds, easily.

Whereas Douglas was happy to stop Tyson in his tracks, and wait for him to come again, Bowe wouldn't. He would hurt him on the inside, and follow it up with more punishment.

Peak Bowe struggled with Holyfield. Peak Tyson struggled with no one. If we are talking peak for both, then we are talking Tyson before Bruno. When was Bowe's peak exactly?

13th November 1992.

[keithmoonhangover]

No chance. Far better for Bowe would have been Tyson as the # 1 contender as opposed to a tall " box / puncher " like Lewis. Manna from heaven for Bowe, a short stumpy guy who wants to come right at him. He would think all his Christmas's had come at once and meet fire with fire. Bowe inside 6 rounds, easily.

Whereas Douglas was happy to stop Tyson in his tracks, and wait for him to come again, Bowe wouldn't. He would hurt him on the inside, and follow it up with more punishment.

Peak Bowe struggled with Holyfield. Peak Tyson struggled with no one. If we are talking peak for both, then we are talking Tyson before Bruno. When was Bowe's peak exactly?

13th November 1992.

[Syntax Error]

Peak Bowe struggled with Holyfield. Peak Tyson struggled with no one. If we are talking peak for both, then we are talking Tyson before Bruno. When was Bowe's peak exactly?

13th November 1992.

Probably the shortest peak of all-time.

He was an ATG for one night only.

[Ambling Alp II]

He fought a great fight in the 2nd fight with Holyfield. Would have beaten almost anyone else. The decision could have gone his way or been a draw. He also looked great in some of other fights as well.

[keithmoonhangover]

He fought a great fight in the 2nd fight with Holyfield. Would have beaten almost anyone else. The decision could have gone his way or been a draw. He also looked great in some of other fights as well.

I thought the 2nd fight was close too, but he looked beatable in both of them. Tyson vs say Tubbs or Spinks or Berbick or Holmes looked a lot more dominant. I mean, during Tyson's prime, which for my money was from Berbick to Spinks, Tyson barely lost a round. He feasted on taller men and didn't do much wrong against Tony Tucker, who is Bowe's height. Prime Tyson had a great chin and Bowe's chin was very good also, but he never got hit as hard as Tyson would hit him. A lot of people on here give Tyson no credit for beating Spinks, but he did a tremendous number on him.

Another thing I read about Tyson is that all you had to do to beat him was to stand up to his bullying. Plenty of boxers tried that before Douglas tried and failed. Prime Tyson, moving his head and unleashing bombs would do a lot of damage to Bowe. Do you think Bowe had the movement needed to avoid Tyson?

[Syntax Error]

He fought a great fight in the 2nd fight with Holyfield. Would have beaten almost anyone else. The decision could have gone his way or been a draw. He also looked great in some of other fights as well.

I thought the 2nd fight was close too, but he looked beatable in both of them. Tyson vs say Tubbs or Spinks or Berbick or Holmes looked a lot more dominant. I mean, during Tyson's prime, which for my money was from Berbick to Spinks, Tyson barely lost a round. He feasted on taller men and didn't do much wrong against Tony Tucker, who is Bowe's height. Prime Tyson had a great chin and Bowe's chin was very good also, but he never got hit as hard as Tyson would hit him. A lot of people on here give Tyson no credit for beating Spinks, but he did a tremendous number on him.

Another thing I read about Tyson is that all you had to do to beat him was to stand up to his bullying. Plenty of boxers tried that before Douglas tried and failed. Prime Tyson, moving his head and unleashing bombs would do a lot of damage to Bowe. Do you think Bowe had the movement needed to avoid Tyson?

Tyson & Bowe are similar in some ways.

They both didn't dedicate themselves to their craft they way they should have.

If they had the dedication of the likes of Floyd Mayweather Jr & Bernard Hopkins, they'd have been HW champs for years: they might even have fought each other & that would have been a mammoth fight too.

[keithmoonhangover]

He fought a great fight in the 2nd fight with Holyfield. Would have beaten almost anyone else. The decision could have gone his way or been a draw. He also looked great in some of other fights as well.

I thought the 2nd fight was close too, but he looked beatable in both of them. Tyson vs say Tubbs or Spinks or Berbick or Holmes looked a lot more dominant. I mean, during Tyson's prime, which for my money was from Berbick to Spinks, Tyson barely lost a round. He feasted on taller men and didn't do much wrong against Tony Tucker, who is Bowe's height. Prime Tyson had a great chin and Bowe's chin was very good also, but he never got hit as hard as Tyson would hit him. A lot of people on here give Tyson no credit for beating Spinks, but he did a tremendous number on him.

Another thing I read about Tyson is that all you had to do to beat him was to stand up to his bullying. Plenty of boxers tried that before Douglas tried and failed. Prime Tyson, moving his head and unleashing bombs would do a lot of damage to Bowe. Do you think Bowe had the movement needed to avoid Tyson?

Tyson & Bowe are similar in some ways.

They both didn't dedicate themselves to their craft they way they should have.

If they had the dedication of the likes of Floyd Mayweather Jr & Bernard Hopkins, they'd have been HW champs for years: they might even have fought each other & that would have been a mammoth fight too.

I agree. I do think Tyson did enough in his career to be classed as a great. Bowe beat Evander, but there will always be the ducking of Lewis hanging over his head.

[Ambling Alp II]

I think the whole "belt in the trash can thing" was about the worst Public Relations move a fighter could possibly make.

Someone else not that long ago post a newspaper article showing that Bowe had actually signed for a fight against Lewis, but the fight fell through. I can't remember if it was before or after the whole trash can thing; believe it was a little afterward.
Not sure if he would have beaten Lewis or not; but have never for a minute thought he was afraid of Lewis.

I think what also hurts Bowe legacy is that a lot of the fighters that he beat later had their careers go bad so the win doesn't seem like that big of a deal for Bowe.

With Tyson, I am in the middle of two extreme viewpoints. I don't believe in the invincible thing about "Prime Tyson" that some people that Tyson supporters do. He did struggle against James Tillis, the first part of the Tucker fight before Tucker hurt his hand, and did not look that good against Bonecrusher smith.
However, I think it is oversimplified to say that all an opponent had to do was "stand up to the bully. He simply beat too many lot good-to very good fighters.

[man]

prime (meaning early twenties) mike is a profound
threat for everybody in history within first 5 rounds.
in his early going he was not only strong, he was
extremely fast and this combination is not easy to
overcome.

could bowe have weathered it? possibly, but it is
a toss up.