Sugar Ray Robinson. What ifs?

[NYDominican]

Sugar Ray Robinson has primarily been considered the very top boxer (along with Henry Armstrong) in boxing's "pound for pound" category. What ifs for Sugar. ------------


1. A prime Sugar Ray Robinson against a prime Kid Tunero?


2. A prime Sugar Ray Robinson against a prime Tony Zale?


3. A primeSugarRay Ronbinson against a prime
Jack Chase?


4. A prime Sugar Ray Robinson against a prime Lloyd Marshall?



5. A prime Sugar Ray Robinson against a prime Herbert "Cocoa Kid" Lewis Hardwick?



In my next post, I will pose other Sugar "What if" fights?

[NYDominican]

6. Prime Sugar Ray Robinson against a prime Holman Williams?



7. Prime Sugar Ray Robinson against a prime Archie Moore?



8. Prime Sugar Ray Robinson against a prime Eddie Booker?



9. Prime Sugar Ray Robinson againt a prime Charley Burley?



10. Prime Sugar Ray Robinson against a prime Bert Lytell?

[Kalan]

Prime Ray Robinson did fight prime Ralph Jones -- who suffered many defeats and was coming off 5 straight losses -- but won easily.

Old Lazlo Papp had little trouble with Ralph Jones... Prime Gustov Scholz was undefeated in his first 68 fights, but had no prayer of getting top American Middleweights to fight him -- as Jim Norris controlled Boxing with more iron-fisted intensity than Al Haymon employs today.

[cfang]

Prime Ray Robinson did fight prime Ralph Jones -- who suffered many defeats and was coming off 5 straight losses -- but won easily.

Old Lazlo Papp had little trouble with Ralph Jones... Prime Gustov Scholz was undefeated in his first 68 fights, but had no prayer of getting top American Middleweights to fight him -- as Jim Norris controlled Boxing with more iron-fisted intensity than Al Haymon employs today.

The prime SRR who had had 136 fights and one recent fight in 3 years - that SRR? Oh and he lost to tiger jones the man who lost to charles humez who beat your man scholz.

Actually I'm tired of responding to you. You don't offer anything other than repeating the same old stuff over and over zzzzzz

[Kalan]

Prime Ray Robinson did fight prime Ralph Jones -- who suffered many defeats and was coming off 5 straight losses -- but won easily.

Old Lazlo Papp had little trouble with Ralph Jones... Prime Gustov Scholz was undefeated in his first 68 fights, but had no prayer of getting top American Middleweights to fight him -- as Jim Norris controlled Boxing with more iron-fisted intensity than Al Haymon employs today.

The prime SRR who had had 136 fights and one recent fight in 3 years - that SRR? Oh and he lost to tiger jones the man who lost to charles humez who beat your man scholz.

Actually I'm tired of responding to you. You don't offer anything other than repeating the same old stuff over and over zzzzzz

SRR had 2 fights in the preceding 3 years when he was outclassed by Ralph Jones, including a recent tune-up fight ... SRL had no fights in 3 years when he beat Hagler.. and no tune-up fights.. Scholz is not my man, but he went undefeated in 68 fights before he lost to Humez in a robbery in France for his first defeat.. But he also knocked Humez out in a rematch.. He should have gotten fights against top American MIddleweights but Jim Norris controlled Boxing.. Scholz eventually got a LHW Title fight with ATG Harold Johnson and that was his other defeat in 96 fights.. Johnson easily beat Heavyweight Eddie Machen who easily beat Joey Maxim, who stopped Robinson.

[Ambling Alp II]

Well, for starters just because Leonard was not in his prime when he beat Hagler doesn't mean Robinson was when he fought Ralph Jones.
Loved the A beat B who beat C who beat D bit.
How about this:
Robinson beat LaMotta, LaMotta beat Bob Satterfield, Satterfield beat Johnson. That obviously means Robinson would have beaten Johnson. Lets take it ever further:
Johnson beat Ezzard Charles, Ezzard Charles beat Joe Louis. I guess we should just pretend everyone was at their best for these fights and assume that Robinson would have crushed Joe Louis.

[Kalan]

Johnson suffered a few defeats because of a slipped disc in his back which gave him continuing problems for a couple years... He collapsed without even being hit in the Walcott fight and he was in agony throughout the Satterfield fight.. The injury eventually worked itself out and he fought better, but he claimed to have suffered several defeats and was even knocked out by nobodies a couple times because the disc was killing him. He had to keep fighting to pay the bills.

[Kalan]

BTW.... Johnson flattened Satterfield in 2 rounds a couple months later when the disc was doing a little better.

[Ambling Alp II]

Wait a minute, you mean that the condition that the fighters were in at the time of fight matters?

[Kalan]

Yup...especially if your chin has been softened up and your reflexes dulled... because you happen to be wide open for left hooks and don't duck punches well

[Kalan]

Oh yes...1940... That was closer to the time when unknown swinger, Artie Levine floored Robinson with a brutal left hook in a non-title fight -- nearly knocking SRR out.. Today that fight would have been stopped because Robinson was reeling and wobbling all over.. In Robinson's next fight, Tommy Bell, who suffered a lot of losses prior to fighting SRR, just as Levine did, floored Robinson hard with a left hook when they fought for a vacant Welterweight Title... In an earlier defeat in 1943, Jake LaMotta also floored Robinson with a left... this one to the body... Robinson was saved by the bell that time, which rang at the count of 9... So his reflexes were not necessarily the best when he was younger and fresher...

How many times has Gennady Golovkin been floored in 386 fights??? He hasn't been...

SRR's record in Middleweight Championship Title Defenses: 3-3 and 2 KO's... GGG's record in Middleweight Championship Title Defenses: 17-0 with 17 KO's

[elmersalsa]

Would GGG be considered a top 5 middleweight boxer of all time if he retires undefeated champion?

[Ambling Alp II]

Of course. In fact he would have to be number 1. Just look at his win/loss record and the number of his title defenses. That is all that you need to know when rating fighters since they all fight exactly the same quality of competition.

[ClivePatrickLyons]

Prime Ray Robinson did fight prime Ralph Jones -- who suffered many defeats and was coming off 5 straight losses -- but won easily.

Old Lazlo Papp had little trouble with Ralph Jones... Prime Gustov Scholz was undefeated in his first 68 fights, but had no prayer of getting top American Middleweights to fight him -- as Jim Norris controlled Boxing with more iron-fisted intensity than Al Haymon employs today.

YOU THINK A PRIME SRR WAS THE ONE THAT RALPH TIGER JONES BEAT THAT JUST PROVES YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT IN 1952 SRR RETIRED THATS WHEN HE WAS IN HIS PRIME OR AT THE VERY LEAST NEAR HIS PRIME HIS RECORD 133-2-2 DRAW'S NOW THE SECOND PART OF SRR CAREER WHEN HE CAME BACK AT NEARLY 34 YEAR'S OLD HIS RECORD READS 40-16-4 DRAW'S THATS WHEN RALPH TIGER JONES BEAT HIM WHEN HE WAS OVER THE HILL

[Kalan]

Fighters DON'T "routinely take PED's" ... Drug tests have become very sensitive and the number of outlawed substances has grown exponentially. Even substances of little or no value to any athlete have been added to the PED list because they're illegal drugs. You can't take anything and have to check your medications against the list... Roy Jones hired a guy to check everything he takes because he accidentally took PED listed substances twice...once in a commercial nasal spray that contained a tiny amount of a steroid -- and once in an over-the-counter fat burner called Ripped Fuel that contained Ephedrine.

Boxers would have to be fools to take PED's nowadays because they can wreck your body... In the 1960's and 70's PED's were still legal... Many top boxers took them freely... Dianabol, steroids, HGH and whatever were everywhere.. Now they're all outlawed.. Boxers do better nutrition and stay away from junky PED's... Some idiots buy over-the-counter supplements that have been laced with cheap steroids that aren't labeled because they're illegal.. Manufacturers try to trick customers into using more of their products by steroid lacing.. Boxers sometimes buy these products although they've been warned not to buy supplements..You would think manufacturers would get thrown in jail for 10 years for illegally distributing steroids and keeping that fact hidden from consumers -- but the supplements industry is very poorly regulated to date and they've stayed out of jail. They just shut them down and they reopen somewhere else.