The Lost Generation Of Heavyweights

[keithmoonhangover]

Tim Witherspoon said that Tony Tubbs was the best of those boxers. All of those fighters come with if's and but's.

Witherspoon said that if Tubbs had been a big hitter he would have been dominant. I think Tubbs would have needed a chin, power and conditioning.

I will say that if Carl Williams had McCall's chin he would have been fantastic boxer.

[Ambling Alp II]

I actually thought Tubbs had a pretty good chin; he did have very little power and of course was way out of shape. He did have good boxing ability and had good hand speed.

Carl Williams was also a good boxer and had some power. He had a really good jab. He really got jobbed against Holmes. Too bad that he isn't as well remembered as some of these guys who won a WBS title.

A lot of these guys from this era looked good in one fight and terrible in the next. sometimes they looked good and bad in the same fight. A lot of it simply went down to them looking lethargic, not throwing nearly enough punches.

[Keko]

Great theme.
. Great potential had Tim.

Gerry Cooney? I have the impression that he could do more in his career

Frank Bruno what would have happened had the chin, he had potential and often watch to fight with Lewis

[Bodyshot3]

Nearly all these guys had serious talent...which is why it so grates folk that it was not another golden era that seamlessly linked-up with the halycon days of Norton, Ali, Shavers, Frazier, Foreman, Holmes and all the other quality boys like Bugner, Quarry etc.

But they all had major problems with Don King, Cocaine, governing body politics going bonkers and (frankly) their own cr*p self-discipline.

There was also a rather grandoise/arrogant sense of entitlement that winning a chunk of the HW championship somehow made them the next Ali or Foreman. It did not and they largely squandered the great inheritance left to them.

Witherspoon turned-up for his fight with Bruno looking like a club-fighter with a bad, fried food habit. Despite all of that he somehow got by on sheer boxing ability and ring generalship...that was a classic 'lost generation' performance for my money.

To a certain extent the division remained interesting and unpredictable because of the various flaws of the major players; people like James Smith, Mike Weaver and Coetzee (briefly) gatecrashed the party somewhat.

The story of this period should arguably have been about Tubbs, Witherspoon, Pinklon Thomas and Holmes being in a series of very lucrative mega-fights with each other; with everyone else frozen out.

[Tony1244]

Pinklon Thomas, Gerry Cooney, Dokes, and McCall all had severe and admitted substance abuse problems.

Some of the others may have as well, maybe to a lesser extent. They really were "The Lost Generation Of Heavyweights."

[Kalan]

There's a better mix of Heavyweights today... They're bigger, stronger, more skilled, more dedicated, more intense, and more international in scope.

I also like what the Cubs just did and what they said... "We don't care about all those old timers or the last time the Cubs won. That was then. This is now."

[BoxBuzz]

There's a better mix of Heavyweights today... They're bigger, stronger, more skilled, more dedicated, more intense, and more international in scope.

I also like what the Cubs just did and what they said... "We don't care about all those old timers or the last time the Cubs won. That was then. This is now."

These guys today are nothing compared to whats coming in 2050.

With DNA manipulation, we'll be able to take the hide of an Armadillo,(or maybe the shell of a Turtle), the Speed of a Cheetah, The punching power of a Silverback, with the camouflage of a Cuttlefish. Creating a whole new breed of fighter. The new guys won't be able to see each other, catch each other, hurt each other....but if they SHOULD happen to connect, their opponents will be sent flying into the audience at breakneck speed.....sort of like a tire flying off of a NASCAR racing vehicle.

It'll be very dangerous to attend a fight in the future....so attendance will be outlawed .it'll have to be witnessed on your apple watch, which will be directly connected to your optic nerve.

[keithmoonhangover]

There's a better mix of Heavyweights today... They're bigger, stronger, more skilled, more dedicated, more intense, and more international in scope.

I also like what the Cubs just did and what they said... "We don't care about all those old timers or the last time the Cubs won. That was then. This is now."

These guys today are nothing compared to whats coming in 2050.

With DNA manipulation, we'll be able to take the hide of an Armadillo,(or maybe the shell of a Turtle), the Speed of a Cheetah, The punching power of a Silverback, with the camouflage of a Cuttlefish. Creating a whole new breed of fighter. The new guys won't be able to see each other, catch each other, hurt each other....but if they SHOULD happen to connect, their opponents will be sent flying into the audience at breakneck speed.....sort of like a tire flying off of a NASCAR racing vehicle.

It'll be very dangerous to attend a fight in the future....so attendance will be outlawed .it'll have to be witnessed on your apple watch, which will be directly connected to your optic nerve.

I'm going to make a prediction. There's going to be a near 7 feet tall African American, who is athletic and he will dominate the heavyweight division, destroying everything in his path. Psychic reading available.

[evrenb]

There's a better mix of Heavyweights today... They're bigger, stronger, more skilled, more dedicated, more intense, and more international in scope.

I also like what the Cubs just did and what they said... "We don't care about all those old timers or the last time the Cubs won. That was then. This is now."

I agree with that to a certain extent - the part about bigger and also more international in scope. This is true - the former USSR has opened up and the talent is deep.
I do not agree with more skilled whatsoever. There is a lot more emphasis on pure power these days, Fury being a notable (and successful )exception. Stronger isn't measurable just based on size. More dedicated that is judged on an individual basis ; could you say Tyson Fury is more dedicated than Larry Holmes or Mike Tyson or Holyfield?? More intense?? I think I know what you mean. Again I believe that because there is a lot of emphasis on punching power this comes across as intense. A bit like Foreman in the 1970's or Mike Tyson in the 1980's '; intense.

Top fighters have huge retinue's these days with a manager, promoter, trainers, assistant trainers, publicists, on line advisors, nutritionist, tv stations, lawyers...etc etc...this all assists the fighter as they can get down to the fighting and not worrying about much else. People wonder why some of the old greats have 'patchy' records. Well when you are under fed, working a full time job and get a call to fight in a week then you not gonna be primed for the big fight....

[Cutman Scabbers]

I'm going to make a prediction. There's going to be a near 7 feet tall African American, who is athletic and he will dominate the heavyweight division, destroying everything in his path. Psychic reading available.

Kind of like a contemporary Wilt Chamberlain?

[keithmoonhangover]

I'm going to make a prediction. There's going to be a near 7 feet tall African American, who is athletic and he will dominate the heavyweight division, destroying everything in his path. Psychic reading available.

Kind of like a contemporary Wilt Chamberlain?

Wilt may yet rise from the grave.

[Crease]

When I hear the phrase of: "The Lost Generation Of Heavyweights" I always think of the trio from the 80s - Pinklon Thomas, Tim Witherspoon & Greg Page.

All three of them were very good boxers who just never reached their full potential.

[Crease]

Another significant "lost generation of Heavyweights" has to be the black guys from the early 1900s - Sam Langford, Harry Wills, Joe Jeanette & Sam McVey.

It would've been fascinating had they blended in with the top white fighters in the rankings of that day. It's really sad that we'll never know.

[Ambling Alp II]

Those guys were in a different situation. They probably made the most of their careers.


The guys form the I have always thought of several guys-not just Witherspoon, Thomas, and Page. Would also include Tate, Tubbs, Dokes, Tucker, and Carl Williams even though he officially never won the title.
Other guys like Coatzee, Weaver and Berbick probably did as well as they could with the talent that they had. Renaldo Snipes could have done a little better though he wasn't an underachiever.
Some people would include guys who came a long a little after such as Bruno and McCall.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

- While Wills and Jeannette had a handful of fights with former contender/challenger types, Sam had a bunch more that he almost always beat.

Carpentier and Ketchel perhaps most prominently but so many others. Helps to be 5-6 since no fighter worth his salt is going to think such a homely looking runt could ever beat him much to their demise as their corner dragged them back to their stools.

Also under primitive travel conditions Sam one of the most international greats in history...you sleep on Sam and he'll put you to sleep for the long count.

[Kalan]

There's a better mix of Heavyweights today... They're bigger, stronger, more skilled, more dedicated, more intense, and more international in scope.

I also like what the Cubs just did and what they said... "We don't care about all those old timers or the last time the Cubs won. That was then. This is now."

These guys today are nothing compared to whats coming in 2050.

With DNA manipulation, we'll be able to take the hide of an Armadillo,(or maybe the shell of a Turtle), the Speed of a Cheetah, The punching power of a Silverback, with the camouflage of a Cuttlefish. Creating a whole new breed of fighter. The new guys won't be able to see each other, catch each other, hurt each other....but if they SHOULD happen to connect, their opponents will be sent flying into the audience at breakneck speed.....sort of like a tire flying off of a NASCAR racing vehicle.

It'll be very dangerous to attend a fight in the future....so attendance will be outlawed .it'll have to be witnessed on your apple watch, which will be directly connected to your optic nerve.

You're dreaming again instead of making any sense BuzzBox.. You've read too many J.K. Rowling books and you're talking about the year 3535 not 2050... Some guy who was born yesterday could reach his peak performance as a boxer in the year 2050.. He'd be younger than GGG is today.. But they'll do away with PED's by then -- and they keep frozen samples of an athlete's blood and urine for as long as he's alive.. It's a little like the evolution of DNA testing for criminal investigations.. Now they know more about cross contamination etc. and how to preserve samples.. The science of nutrition is still having a major impact on sports records but for how much longer??? Once we isolate the optimum diet where do we go from there???

Gene manipulation is going to be outlawed like the cloning of human beings.. Usain Bolt may be the fastest human for the next 10 or 20 years or longer because future governments are not going to allow genetic freaks to be created.. It's just like we're getting serious about Climate Change.. Human genetic research is a big international issue like the spread of nuclear weapons.. We can never allow all these super important problems to get out of hand and we won't.

The science of Boxing itself is still evolving and they're keeping stats for everything.. However the punch stats are often erroneous.. Because of human error and even corruption we still get decisions like Pacquiao-Bradley 1, Lara-Williams, and Walters-Sosa.. A judge can't see every single punch.. We need a system of super high speed, high resolution cameras scanning every possible angle and computing every clean and effective punch landed while sensing their force, quality, and Efficacy... Take human error out of Boxing like they've done with Fencing... That system could be ready by 2050.. The results will also go up on a scoreboard as the fight is happening.. The drama will then switch to the boxer needing the KO ... and no more groans and booing when decisions are announced.

[Bricks]

Its like arguing with yourself!

[ClivePatrickLyons]

I was once with a fighter who was mate's with Michael Dokes we picked him up at the airport in Sydney Australia we he came out here not long after he lost the WBA Heavyweight Title he was that high on cocaine that me being a kid thought he would get arrested at the exit gate's for being loud and drunk [that's what I thought was his problem drinking too much grog on the flight] I remember him telling me how he'd have too many move's for Larry [Holmes] he was certainly off his head but he was a very talented fighter that could have had a much more celebrated career may he RIP.

[Bodyshot3]

I was once with a fighter who was mate's with Michael Dokes we picked him up at the airport in Sydney Australia we he came out here not long after he lost the WBA Heavyweight Title he was that high on cocaine that me being a kid thought he would get arrested at the exit gate's for being loud and drunk [that's what I thought was his problem drinking too much grog on the flight] I remember him telling me how he'd have too many move's for Larry [Holmes] he was certainly off his head but he was a very talented fighter that could have had a much more celebrated career may he RIP

Interesting CPL!

The whole cocaine-culture definitely cursed some of these guys' careers.

They lost focus, took silly fights to pay their debts and I really don't think their managers/promoters gave a flying toss or in some instances did not understood what was going on.

I found this excellent piece on-line about Dokes and the wider culture of the time. Well worth a read once you've closed the pop-ups.


http://thecruelestsport.com/2015/08/12/ ... 1958-2012/

[Kalan]

I was once with a fighter who was mate's with Michael Dokes we picked him up at the airport in Sydney Australia we he came out here not long after he lost the WBA Heavyweight Title he was that high on cocaine that me being a kid thought he would get arrested at the exit gate's for being loud and drunk [that's what I thought was his problem drinking too much grog on the flight] I remember him telling me how he'd have too many move's for Larry [Holmes] he was certainly off his head but he was a very talented fighter that could have had a much more celebrated career may he RIP

Interesting CPL!

The whole cocaine-culture definitely cursed some of these guys' careers.

They lost focus, took silly fights to pay their debts and I really don't think their managers/promoters gave a flying toss or in some instances did not understood what was going on.

I found this excellent piece on-line about Dokes and the wider culture of the time. Well worth a read once you've closed the pop-ups.


http://thecruelestsport.com/2015/08/12/ ... 1958-2012/

That’s a great story about Michael Dokes.. The poor man was one of the worst coke addicts imaginable...it has to be genetic to get hooked that badly

Friends tried to push cocaine on me for years and I turned it down.. I finally tried it when a beautiful date said she’d give me the world’s greatest BJ if I did coke with her.. She took some and I did a line.. Then I did some more because it wasn’t having a big effect.. I was jealous and frustrated because she was higher than a kite.. I always heard it was better than sex but it didn’t deliver the few times I tried it.. I thought maybe it was low quality but it didn’t matter what the price was.. I hated pot because it made me feel groggy and stuffy.. Sounds funny but I preferred booze and rolled cigarettes with nothing but tobacco to any drugs I ever tried. Of course they’re drugs too, but I rarely got drunk or had more than 4 to 7 smokes. I was always the driver or got the cab at 4 or 5:00 AM when everybody was wiped out.

Don King did all kinds of drugs and was always sober as a judge.. He would laugh and giggle like he’s 3 sheets to the wind, and on a second’s notice he’d be in complete control - talking as clearly as a plant manager sending people in 4 different directions.. The story about Dokes asking King for a little bit of money when he was broke, and Don claiming “I don’t have any money” really hit home.. King is the worst man to infect any sport.. He’s stone cold heartless.. He’ll still be ripping off boxers when he’s 105.

[Nile4000]

When I hear the phrase of: "The Lost Generation Of Heavyweights" I always think of the trio from the 80s - Pinklon Thomas, Tim Witherspoon & Greg Page.

All three of them were very good boxers who just never reached their full potential.

Especially Page, who had tremendous potential.