Why Didnt Bowe Challenge Lewis The Same Way He Did Jorge Gonzales?

[Tuan_Jim]

Done to death this subject. Bowe didn't fight Lewis in his first defence because it didn't make sense. Lewis understands this. He ditched his WBA belt so he could fight the inept Michael Grant rather than John Ruiz. He deferred his dangerous mandatory, David Tua, twice, so he could make a couple of easy defences vs Grant and Botha. Sound familiar? He also ditched his IBF belt rather than fight Chris Byrd.

It's a long forgotten fact that in 94 Lewis and Bowe signed to fight each other. Sadly Lewis got himself blasted by McCall. He was offered Bowe again in 96 but turned it down in favour of a low paid engagement with Ray Mercer.

[Kalan]

Lewis-Bowe was the richest fight in Boxing history up to that time.

That is wrong.

Strange comment to factually say something that didn't happen is wrong when you simply cannot prove it.

True... After Lewis smashed Razor Ruddock out in 2 rounds the demand for Lewis-Bowe was unreal.. LL was unbeaten and it was 2 huge Heavyweights.

[Kalan]

Done to death this subject. Bowe didn't fight Lewis in his first defence because it didn't make sense. Lewis understands this. He ditched his WBA belt so he could fight the inept Michael Grant rather than John Ruiz. He deferred his dangerous mandatory, David Tua, twice, so he could make a couple of easy defences vs Grant and Botha. Sound familiar? He also ditched his IBF belt rather than fight Chris Byrd.

It's a long forgotten fact that in 94 Lewis and Bowe signed to fight each other. Sadly Lewis got himself blasted by McCall. He was offered Bowe again in 96 but turned it down in favour of a low paid engagement with Ray Mercer.

Ruiz was much more inept than Michael Grant... Grant stopped the plodding punch bag Golota and Ruiz barely beat the foulster... Golota beat the turds out of Bowe -- but he couldn't last a minute with either Lewis, Brewster, or Tyson... Tua KO'd Ruiz in 17 seconds.. Lewis had no problems with Tua, who couldn't do a thing. The idea that Lewis would fear the pokey Tua is ludicrous.. Lewis-Byrd would have been as monotonous and one-sided as Wladimir-Byrd 1 -- or possibly as bad as the stinky Byrd-Williamson fight.. Lewis had pity on the fans and didn't want to put them through a garbage fight with Byrd.. Lewis wanted Bowe, because Bowe was a big stiff with a filthy mouth who needed knocking out -- which Lewis TOLD Bowe repeatedly TO HIS FACE that he would KTFO of him if Bowe had guts enough to fight... Bowe didn't of course. He threw his championship belt in a garbage can, just like CanYellow did.

[jbizzle20]

This is the thing Lennox supporters choose to ignore. Bowe didn't duck lewis. It just didn't make sense for him to take that fight than in his eyes.

Bowe was ready to fight lewis but than lewis lost to McCall and was in the wilderness for 3 years.

Fools claim Lewis beat bowe in the Olympics and this caused him to fear lewis. Well gonzalez beat up both lewis and bowe in the amateurs, was undefeated and with an intimidating aura.....bowe didn't care. and I believe bowe would have done same thing to Lewis

Bowe beat a peak-peakish Holyfield quite cleanly while Lewis struggled mightily with a far older holyfield . I actually had holyfield winning the rematch.

Bowe struggled mightly each time with Holyfield and struggled to put away a Holyfield dealing with Hep C reactions. Lewis owned Holyfield twice and brought his time as an elite fighter to an end.

1. You are ignoring the stages of Holyfield's career, which others have mentioned.
Holyfield was in his prime when he fought Bowe.
Holyfield was way past it when he fought Lewis.
2. Lewis certainly did not "own" Holyfield twice. Many people thought Holyfield won the rematch.

1. Lewis was no spring chicken when they met, either. Holyfield had a history of problems with big guys who can use their reach. Holmes and Foreman used their reach to frustrate Holyfield. Even Moorer punished Holyfield with his jab. Nonetheless, Holyfield was the recognized WBA and IBF champ and was seen by most Americans as top dog after beating Tyson twice, only 2 years earlier. People need to stop claiming that the difference between their age and status was so huge.
2. Whenever Holyfield rushed him, Lewis made him pay with sharp jabs. Once Holyfield got tired and stopped coming forward, Lewis came forward and punished him even harder with big hooks and uppercuts. Same scenario each fight. Holyfield lost that top status he had after beating Tyson, when he lost to Lewis. Your claim of Lewis struggling mightily with Holyfield is absurd. Just because Holyfield wasn't KTFO'd doesn't mean Lewis struggled.

[keithmoonhangover]

it didn't make sense.

To Lewis it did. He wanted to fight Bowe. Bowe ducked the fight. He avoided him. It's a fact. Just like Lewis avoided John Ruiz.

Difference is, not fighting Ruiz didn't tarnish Lewis' legacy forever. Bowe avoiding Lewis did.

[Tuan_Jim]

it didn't make sense.

To Lewis it did. He wanted to fight Bowe. Bowe ducked the fight. He avoided him. It's a fact. Just like Lewis avoided John Ruiz.

Difference is, not fighting Ruiz didn't tarnish Lewis' legacy forever. Bowe avoiding Lewis did.

It only tarnishes his reputation with low information fans. Those with context and critical faculties can see why deferring a Lennox Lewis defence would be the more lucrative strategy. Those who refuse to accept this reveal themselves for the infantile adults they are.

[Counter-puncher]

Your claim of Lewis struggling mightily with Holyfield is absurd. .

no worse than your claim Lewis 'punished him mightily'

[keithmoonhangover]

It only tarnishes his reputation with low information fans. Those with context and critical faculties can see why deferring a Lennox Lewis defence would be the more lucrative strategy. Those who refuse to accept this reveal themselves for the infantile adults they are.

I'm talking about legacy, not money, which is the excuse you are using for Bowe. It made no sense for Lewis to fight John Ruiz, are you saying Lewis didn't duck Ruiz?

[Tuan_Jim]

Done to death this subject. Bowe didn't fight Lewis in his first defence because it didn't make sense. Lewis understands this. He ditched his WBA belt so he could fight the inept Michael Grant rather than John Ruiz. He deferred his dangerous mandatory, David Tua, twice, so he could make a couple of easy defences vs Grant and Botha. Sound familiar? He also ditched his IBF belt rather than fight Chris Byrd.

It's a long forgotten fact that in 94 Lewis and Bowe signed to fight each other. Sadly Lewis got himself blasted by McCall. He was offered Bowe again in 96 but turned it down in favour of a low paid engagement with Ray Mercer.

Ruiz was much more inept than Michael Grant... Grant stopped the plodding punch bag Golota and Ruiz barely beat the foulster...

Ruiz more inept than Grant? How did they both do with Jameel McCline?

[littlepug]

Lennox told him to his face he would knock him out & Bowe responded by vacating the belt but when Jorge says I'm gonna knock you out Bum

then ALL OF THE SUDDEN Bowe is animated looking for a fight, anxious to climb in the ring. Bowe should never be allowed HOF for the way he

ducked Lennox Lewis.

cant really see anyone mentioning Bowe and the HOF in the same sentence anyway

[Ambling Alp II]

Bowe struggled mightly each time with Holyfield and struggled to put away a Holyfield dealing with Hep C reactions. Lewis owned Holyfield twice and brought his time as an elite fighter to an end.

1. You are ignoring the stages of Holyfield's career, which others have mentioned.
Holyfield was in his prime when he fought Bowe.
Holyfield was way past it when he fought Lewis.
2. Lewis certainly did not "own" Holyfield twice. Many people thought Holyfield won the rematch.

1. Lewis was no spring chicken when they met, either. Holyfield had a history of problems with big guys who can use their reach. Holmes and Foreman used their reach to frustrate Holyfield. Even Moorer punished Holyfield with his jab. Nonetheless, Holyfield was the recognized WBA and IBF champ and was seen by most Americans as top dog after beating Tyson twice, only 2 years earlier. People need to stop claiming that the difference between their age and status was so huge.
2. Whenever Holyfield rushed him, Lewis made him pay with sharp jabs. Once Holyfield got tired and stopped coming forward, Lewis came forward and punished him even harder with big hooks and uppercuts. Same scenario each fight. Holyfield lost that top status he had after beating Tyson, when he lost to Lewis. Your claim of Lewis struggling mightily with Holyfield is absurd. Just because Holyfield wasn't KTFO'd doesn't mean Lewis struggled.

1. Lewis was no spring chicken, but there is a big difference between being 33 (Lewis) and 36 (Holyfield). Not to mention Holyfield had a lot more wear and tear from tough fights than Lewis.
Holyfield was past his prime when he beat Tyson. He was well past it when he fought Lewis.
doesn't mater if people thought he was top dog or had some WBS title belts.
Holyfield was just 29 when Bowe beat him the first time. He was still in his prime. The version of Holyfield that Lewis fought was nowhere the version of Holyfield that Bowe fought the first two times. Not even remotely close.

2. In the second Lewis-Holyfield fight, Lewis did not make him pay hardly at all. He did almost nothing but paw with his jab. Lewis did more than struggle in their rematch. He was lucky to get the decision. Holyfield landed more good shots than Lewis in the 2nd fight.

[Tuan_Jim]

A large amount of press gave the second Lewis fight to Holyfield. It doesn't fit the Lewis dominance narrative therefore gets swept under the rug. Same with Bowe deferring the big Lewis fight till later, a common boxing practice. Bowe later signs to fight Lewis, Lewis gets himself KOd in 2 by McCall, blows the fight, fact doesn't fit the Lewis hagiography so gets swept under the rug. 'Mama's Boy', the approved Lewis biog, doesn't even mention it.

[Covfefe]

A large amount of press gave the second Lewis fight to Holyfield. It doesn't fit the Lewis dominance narrative therefore gets swept under the rug. Same with Bowe deferring the big Lewis fight till later, a common boxing practice. Bowe later signs to fight Lewis, Lewis gets himself KOd in 2 by McCall, blows the fight, fact doesn't fit the Lewis hagiography so gets swept under the rug. 'Mama's Boy', the approved Lewis biog, doesn't even mention it.

You make me laugh, Lewis is ready to fight Bowe, it's all agreed, Lewis goes to Bowe fights and tells him to his face he's going to knock him out and Bowe ducks the fight. Lewis lost to McCall and the fight was ruined, he didn't duck it! And Bowe could still have fought Lewis regardless of the loss, but it gave them a lovely out.

As for Lewis-Hilyfield, it's fairly accepted that Lewis won the first fight well and got jobbed, he did struggle in the rematch and arguably lost however, but got the decision.

[keithmoonhangover]

You make me laugh, Lewis is ready to fight Bowe, it's all agreed, Lewis goes to Bowe fights and tells him to his face he's going to knock him out and Bowe ducks the fight. Lewis lost to McCall and the fight was ruined, he didn't duck it! And Bowe could still have fought Lewis regardless of the loss, but it gave them a lovely out.

This. For anyone with any sense, this.

[Syntax Error]

What is so difficult for Bowe fanboys and Lewis haters to understand?

In OCTOBER 92 Lewis KO's Ruddock to become # 1 contender for Bowe's W.B.C. belt. The gutless Bowe dumped the belt in the dustbin rather than face Lennox, preferring instead to take on the 30lbs lighter Holyfield, followed by Michael Dokes, and for his pains he was stripped of the W.B.C. strap in DECEMBER 92.

Whilst Bowe went on to fight said Dokes, Ferguson, Holyfield ( L ) Mathis, Lewis fought Tucker, Bruno, Jackson and McCall, within the same time span. Where is the big deal?

Bowe, plainly ducked Lewis in late 92, early 93, simple as that.

It's not quite like that.

Lewis knocks out Ruddock (whom Bowe could have fought, but he went the WBA route & fought Coetzer instead ) to become number one contender for Evander Holyfield's WBC strap.

A few weeks later, Bowe decisions Holyfield & takes the belts.

We all thought the big blockbuster bout between the '88 Olympics super heavyweight rivals would happen after that, but Rock Newman felt the fight needed building( ) & wanted to pad his bank balance (and Bowe's too) by having Riddick knock over a few stiffs & fight the supposed less dangerous Holyfield for more money, before embarking on a superfight against Lewis.

After Bowe dumped the WBC belt, the WBC awarded it to Lewis for his devastation of Ruddock.

[amwsnw]

I have always believed a prime Bowe would've beaten Lewis. I believe that at the time Lewis called out Bowe was the superior boxer.
I would've loved to have seen Moorer in the right frame of mind in with both Bowe and Lewis, although i dont think he beats either.

[Tuan_Jim]

A large amount of press gave the second Lewis fight to Holyfield. It doesn't fit the Lewis dominance narrative therefore gets swept under the rug. Same with Bowe deferring the big Lewis fight till later, a common boxing practice. Bowe later signs to fight Lewis, Lewis gets himself KOd in 2 by McCall, blows the fight, fact doesn't fit the Lewis hagiography so gets swept under the rug. 'Mama's Boy', the approved Lewis biog, doesn't even mention it.

You make me laugh, Lewis is ready to fight Bowe, it's all agreed, Lewis goes to Bowe fights and tells him to his face he's going to knock him out and Bowe ducks the fight. Lewis lost to McCall and the fight was ruined, he didn't duck it! And Bowe could still have fought Lewis regardless of the loss, but it gave them a lovely out.

Another low information Boxrec/Wikipedia dweller. You think Lewis, Bowe, HBO, Panix, Newman, Futch, the newly installed Steward, any party at all, would proceed with a $30 mil fight after Lewis was blasted and the fight value reduced to at best a third of the original price?

No wonder Keith, Boxrec's village idiot, sees 'sense' in your unlogic. Keith is a man who pursues brain damaged heavyweights into online chatrooms and calls them duckers don't you know? It's the equivalent of a hick poking a caged bear with a stick.

The sensible business strategy was to build the fight back up again. The 1995 HBO Bowe/Holy III & Lewis/Morrison mini tourney did a great job of this, but unfortunately Lewis declined the logical finale versus Bowe and instead went for a low paid engagement with Ray Mercer. Bowe waddled off to the fridge and that was that.

[jbizzle20]

1. You are ignoring the stages of Holyfield's career, which others have mentioned.
Holyfield was in his prime when he fought Bowe.
Holyfield was way past it when he fought Lewis.
2. Lewis certainly did not "own" Holyfield twice. Many people thought Holyfield won the rematch.

1. Lewis was no spring chicken when they met, either. Holyfield had a history of problems with big guys who can use their reach. Holmes and Foreman used their reach to frustrate Holyfield. Even Moorer punished Holyfield with his jab. Nonetheless, Holyfield was the recognized WBA and IBF champ and was seen by most Americans as top dog after beating Tyson twice, only 2 years earlier. People need to stop claiming that the difference between their age and status was so huge.
2. Whenever Holyfield rushed him, Lewis made him pay with sharp jabs. Once Holyfield got tired and stopped coming forward, Lewis came forward and punished him even harder with big hooks and uppercuts. Same scenario each fight. Holyfield lost that top status he had after beating Tyson, when he lost to Lewis. Your claim of Lewis struggling mightily with Holyfield is absurd. Just because Holyfield wasn't KTFO'd doesn't mean Lewis struggled.

1. Lewis was no spring chicken, but there is a big difference between being 33 (Lewis) and 36 (Holyfield). Not to mention Holyfield had a lot more wear and tear from tough fights than Lewis.
Holyfield was past his prime when he beat Tyson. He was well past it when he fought Lewis.
doesn't mater if people thought he was top dog or had some WBS title belts.
Holyfield was just 29 when Bowe beat him the first time. He was still in his prime. The version of Holyfield that Lewis fought was nowhere the version of Holyfield that Bowe fought the first two times. Not even remotely close.

2. In the second Lewis-Holyfield fight, Lewis did not make him pay hardly at all. He did almost nothing but paw with his jab. Lewis did more than struggle in their rematch. He was lucky to get the decision. Holyfield landed more good shots than Lewis in the 2nd fight.

1. Ugh, for the thousandth time! Holyfield chose to be a brawler who won by attrition. That was the style he chose, it cost him later in his career. That is a reflection of Holyfield's intelligence as a fighter and he should get no sympathy for it. Lewis chose not to get hit. That saved him and extended his dominance over the course of his later career. 3 years is not a big difference, particularly if you manage your health well.
2. Holyfield started fine for the first 2 rounds, Lewis answered each time. Lewis 4-6 dominated with hard overhands and uppercuts. Holyfield gets desperate and tries to headbutt and misses a lot of haymakers. In 7 they traded hard shots, even round. 8-12 are much like 4-6 as Holyfield gets tired and desperate again, missing wild hooks and trying to headbutt while Lewis unloads uppecuts again and starts stringing combos together. Holyfield lands the occasional good shot but few and far between. Lewis controls the tempo while Holyfield tries but fails to draw Lewis into a brawl. Sounds like a Lewis UD to me. Every time Holyfield started looking good, Lewis answered him with an equally hard blow. Lewis came forward with 3 and 4 hit combos and Holyfield couldn't answer. Whenever Lewis landed a hard uppercut, that sapped a lot from Holyfield and it took him a while to recover.

[Ambling Alp II]

1. Holyfield had faced much tougher competition in his career than Lewis had. That was a huge reason why he had more wear and tear. Lewis did get hit when he fought someone good. Look at the Mercer fight.

Three years at that stage is huge. If you have two guys and one is 26 and one is 29, then normally it's not a big deal. In your thirties you start to gradually decline. Almost every fighter was better at 33 than 36, if he is still fighting at 36.
Holyfield was much better three years earlier.
Lewis was not as good three years later.

2. Completely disagree with your description of the Holyfield-Lewis rematch. It was a crappy fight for the most part. Holyfield would throw flurrries here and there. Holyfield did not look good but at least he was doing something once in a while. Lewis did almost nothing. He pawed with his jab virtually all night, nothing on it at all. He landed very few hard punches at all. He looked awful and was lucky to get the decision.

[keithmoonhangover]

No wonder Keith, Boxrec's village idiot, sees 'sense' in your unlogic. Keith is a man who pursues brain damaged heavyweights into online chatrooms and calls them duckers don't you know? It's the equivalent of a hick poking a caged bear with a stick.

You have such lovely manners don't you. From your very first post under this username, you attacked me, yet you don't have the guts to post your previous username. What is your problem?

I'll make this easy for you, lets spar a few rounds in a real gym, I'm ready, are you?

[Tomasino]

No wonder Keith, Boxrec's village idiot, sees 'sense' in your unlogic. Keith is a man who pursues brain damaged heavyweights into online chatrooms and calls them duckers don't you know? It's the equivalent of a hick poking a caged bear with a stick.

You have such lovely manners don't you. From your very first post under this username, you attacked me, yet you don't have the guts to post your previous username. What is your problem?

I'll make this easy for you, lets spar a few rounds in a real gym, I'm ready, are you?

Who is Jim?

[keithmoonhangover]

No wonder Keith, Boxrec's village idiot, sees 'sense' in your unlogic. Keith is a man who pursues brain damaged heavyweights into online chatrooms and calls them duckers don't you know? It's the equivalent of a hick poking a caged bear with a stick.

You have such lovely manners don't you. From your very first post under this username, you attacked me, yet you don't have the guts to post your previous username. What is your problem?

I'll make this easy for you, lets spar a few rounds in a real gym, I'm ready, are you?

Who is Jim?

*DRUM ROLL*

And Jim is.............

[Tomasino]

You have such lovely manners don't you. From your very first post under this username, you attacked me, yet you don't have the guts to post your previous username. What is your problem?

I'll make this easy for you, lets spar a few rounds in a real gym, I'm ready, are you?

Who is Jim?

*DRUM ROLL*

And Jim is.............

Purple Aki?

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

Done to death this subject. Bowe didn't fight Lewis in his first defence because it didn't make sense. Lewis understands this. He ditched his WBA belt so he could fight the inept Michael Grant rather than John Ruiz. He deferred his dangerous mandatory, David Tua, twice, so he could make a couple of easy defences vs Grant and Botha. Sound familiar? He also ditched his IBF belt rather than fight Chris Byrd.

- And apparently you'll be dumb to death at your current level Jimbo.

Lewis took step aside millions from King so the Ring Unranked could engage Field in a pathetic trilogy. He fought Ring 8th ranked undefeated Grant to net triple what he would've gotten against Ruiz.

Later he took more millions step aside by King to give up the IBF so Field could continue to be passed around to Byrd. That was the last year field was ring ranked. Lewis fought Vitali instead to satisfy 3 judgements he won against Lewis. Lewis was poised to make his biggest ever purse for the rematch and retired.

It's always telling to see who could ever attempt to defend a 2 bit dummy and his thug manager Newman against two of the more honorable and talented champs Lewis and Vitali. Imagine had they and Wlad turned pro with Eddie futch tuoring them like Big Dummy had, they'd all be unbeaten and all you sweeties in tears.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

Done to death this subject. Bowe didn't fight Lewis in his first defence because it didn't make sense. Lewis understands this. He ditched his WBA belt so he could fight the inept Michael Grant rather than John Ruiz. He deferred his dangerous mandatory, David Tua, twice, so he could make a couple of easy defences vs Grant and Botha. Sound familiar? He also ditched his IBF belt rather than fight Chris Byrd.

- And apparently you'll be dumb to death at your current level Jimbo.

Lewis took step aside millions from King so the Ring Unranked Ruiz could engage Field in a pathetic trilogy. He fought Ring 8th ranked undefeated Grant to net triple what he would've gotten against Ruiz.

Later he took more millions step aside by King to give up the IBF so Field could continue to be passed around to Byrd. That was the last year field was ring ranked. Lewis fought Vitali instead to satisfy 3 judgements he won against Lewis. Lewis was poised to make his biggest ever purse for the rematch and retired.

It's always telling to see who could ever attempt to defend a 2 bit dummy and his thug manager Newman against two of the more honorable and talented champs Lewis and Vitali. Imagine had they and Wlad turned pro with Eddie futch tuoring them like Big Dummy had, they'd all be unbeaten and all you sweeties in tears.