The Bobick Brothers

[Neil Gee]

Rodney suffered in the shadow of his 'great white hope' brother. I've just watched his fight with Larry Holmes on Youtube and wondering if he wasn't the better brother. I couldn't see Duane lasting 6 rounds with Holmes.

I had no idea that Rodney died while still active in 1977. I've searched the internet but nowhere does it mention Rodney's death in 1977 as even a relevant factor let alone an excuse for Duane Bobick's loss to Ken Norton in 1978. Does anybody know how Rodney Bobick died, even?

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

- Golly gee Gee, ever think of using boxrec for it's intended purpose?

Like Rodney died in a single car crash in 1977 and Dwayne KTFO of fat Lar who was still slim in the Olympic trials, won Olympic bronze and holds an AMA win over Teo Stevenson, and pro wins over Ramos, weaver, Neumann, Middleton, ledoux, and Wepner. He was ring ranked 3 years before fat Lar who was still slim ever attained a rating.

Poor Lar a slow learner who in no way would consider Dwayne as a pro, 38-0, 32 ko and left it to ken to dispatch Dwayne who assuredly was devastated over his brothers death.

You should try boxrec Gee, works great and pretty much idiot proof though some exceptions post here from time to time.

[sweetsci]

Rodney died AFTER Duane lost to Norton. I recall reading about it at the time. His death made the news.

[scartissue]

One of those myths that have circulated for years that Duane won a bronze in '72. In fact, he lost to Stevenson in the second round of the tournament. Duane did not medal.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

- Then it's a myth circulated on his boxrec bio which if you look at all his previous success, a bronze would certainly be expected.

Time for editors to take a look, but regardless Duane was head and shoulders over Lar until his set backs and Rodney always the lessor.

[Neil Gee]

Thanx for the info guys and apologies for getting some of my dates wrong. For what it's worth I think Holmes had overtaken Ali by 76 after the third Frazier fight took a lot out of him; and I thought Holmes got a raw deal from the ref when he was dqed against Bobick in the amateurs. Bobick looked like a monster going forward but had that fatal weakness to an overhand right. Teófilo Stevenson flattened him with it long before Ken Norton and John Tate derailed his pro career with the same punch. Arguably Bobick's most impressive win in the pros was a ten round decision over fringe contender Larry Middleton and I've read that was a hard night's work for Bobick. Maybe Ali and Holmes avioded Bobick as a pro but then so did every other genuinely world class heavyweight until Norton. I don't think you can read too much into the Weaver win. Both Bobick brothers hold victories over Weaver who had an inconsistent start to life in the pros and had already lost a decision to Rodney when he went into the ring with Duane. Weaver had a 6-5 log at the time of that fight.

[scartissue]

- Then it's a myth circulated on his boxrec bio which if you look at all his previous success, a bronze would certainly be expected.

Time for editors to take a look, but regardless Duane was head and shoulders over Lar until his set backs and Rodney always the lessor.

That is correct, that the boxrec bio is wrong. For the record, we all know Stevenson of Cuba won gold, but silver was won by Ion Alexe of Romania and bronze was shared by Peter Hussing of West Germany and Hasse Thomsen of Sweden. I agree with you that Duane was definitely the second best of the tournament and he was expected to take gold - having already beaten Stevenson - but it was unfortunate that they met so early in the tournament. For years it was widely circulated that Duane won silver because that was the bout that all eyes were focused on and many incorrectly thought that was the Olympic final.

[Keko]

I'm glad to see this topic.

[Tony1244]

I saw Bobick-Middleton and Duane pounded out a tough but earned decision. Duane' tried to put him away in the last round. Duane was more talented than Rodney but Rodney probably took a better punch.

Good puncher himself but couldn't take a certain level of punch.

[Neil Gee]

I saw Bobick-Middleton and Duane pounded out a tough but earned decision. Duane' tried to put him away in the last round. Duane was more talented than Rodney but Rodney probably took a better punch.

Good puncher himself but couldn't take a certain level of punch.

Thanx for confirming the Bobick-Middleton clash was a toughie; think it's true to say Rodney took a better shot than his brother.

Tipping hat

[Kalan]

- Golly gee Gee, ever think of using boxrec for it's intended purpose?

Like Rodney died in a single car crash in 1977 and Dwayne KTFO of fat Lar who was still slim in the Olympic trials, won Olympic bronze and holds an AMA win over Teo Stevenson, and pro wins over Ramos, weaver, Neumann, Middleton, ledoux, and Wepner. He was ring ranked 3 years before fat Lar who was still slim ever attained a rating.

Poor Lar a slow learner who in no way would consider Dwayne as a pro, 38-0, 32 ko and left it to ken to dispatch Dwayne who assuredly was devastated over his brothers death.

You should try boxrec Gee, works great and pretty much idiot proof though some exceptions post here from time to time.

Interesting take on Duane Bobick...citing Bobick's amateur DQ win over a reed thin and grass green amateur Larry Holmes---who was only in the Olympic trials because of the massive lack of amateur competition at Heavyweight that year.. Bobick was destroyed in the Olympics by the rapidly improving Teofilo Stevenson.. As a professional Duane Bobick could never qualify to fight Holmes.. And Rodney Bobick had no business even being in the same ring with a masterful boxer like Holmes.. Duane Bobick went 38-0 as a pro before he met a legitimate Heavyweight Contender in Ken Norton... Larry Holmes went 48-0 while beating such notables as Ken Norton, Earnie Shavers, Mike Weaver, Muhammad Ali, Gerry Cooney, Trevor Berbick, Tim Witherspoon, and Bonecrusher Smith..

I don't think people rank Holmes historically on his amateur loss to Duane Bobick, anymore than people rank George Foreman on his amateur loss to Clay Hodges.. Foreman's loss to Jimmy Young was relevant -- because they were both experienced pros and the much smaller and very light hitting Young had a nice jab, a neat right counter, and adept footwork -- skills that were sadly lacking in most all of George's previous opponents.

[scorpio83]

Rodney suffered in the shadow of his 'great white hope' brother. I've just watched his fight with Larry Holmes on Youtube and wondering if he wasn't the better brother. I couldn't see Duane lasting 6 rounds with Holmes.

I had no idea that Rodney died while still active in 1977. I've searched the internet but nowhere does it mention Rodney's death in 1977 as even a relevant factor let alone an excuse for Duane Bobick's loss to Ken Norton in 1978. Does anybody know how Rodney Bobick died, even?

You got the year wrong about Duane Bobick losing by a first round knockout loss to Ken Norton because Norton knocked Bobick out in the first round in 1977 the same year Jimmy Young upset George Foreman and Young fought Norton the elimination bout for the world heavyweight title shot. However, after Leon Spinks upset the aging Muhammad Ali in their first fight, Spinks decided to give Ali a rematch and was stripped of his WBC title, which was awarded to Ken Norton, who ended up losing to Larry Holmes in his first defense in their great fight.

[Tony1244]

Ali was over by 1978 but he was still fighting. If Bobick hadn't signed to fight Kenny Norton, who knows Bobick could have done what Neon Leon did: The World's Title.

[Kalan]

Duane Bobick wouldn't have had a prayer of beating an aging Ali...

Leon beat Ali, despite having only 7 pro fights---which was a stupid move to grab a title that early because It put Leon in a bracket of opponents he wasn't ready for---but Leon was quick and elusive to a certain extent. He lacked size, strength, skills and experience, but he could still slip punches. Ali was not able to hit Leon very cleanly. Leon was able to hit Ali because Ali never slipped punches particularly well.

But Duane Bobick was easier to hit than George Chuvalo and he had zero resistance to punishment. I never saw Bobick slip or duck a punch well. He might have beaten Leon Spinks with his good work rate and bigger size, but never Ali. It's a bit like Jerry Quarry. Quarry could beat the crap out of certain big guys who loaded up their swings, but Jerry wasn't going to beat a bigger, taller boxer who had a jab and a straight right hand. Bobick was bigger and taller than Quarry but easier to hit. He beat guys like LeDoux, Middleton, and Wepner with sheer work rate, but his defense, stance, and mobility were the pits. Anyone with decent skills, or anybody with good resistance combined with good punching power, was going to beat him.

[Neil Gee]

Duane Bobick wouldn't have had a prayer of beating an aging Ali...

Leon beat Ali, despite having only 7 pro fights---which was a stupid move to grab a title that early because It put Leon in a bracket of opponents he wasn't ready for---but Leon was quick and elusive to a certain extent. He lacked size, strength, skills and experience, but he could still slip punches. Ali was not able to hit Leon very cleanly. Leon was able to hit Ali because Ali never slipped punches particularly well.

Tbh I've always harboured a suspicion that Ali threw the first Spinx fight because he knew he could win a rematch and be the first 3 time heavyweight champion. Look what happened to Spinx afterwards: Gerrie Coetzee stopped him in the first and Holmes did it in 3.

[Caractacus]

actually Larry Holmes is older then Duane Bobick by almost a year.
and as far as Bobick did against Teleo Stevenson at the 1972 Olympics in Munich Germany.
as far as I remember reading somewhere read,the first two rounds were almost even and Bobick may have actually won one of them
(but when was the last time you saw video of the entire bout ?)

[Bricks]

Duane Bobick wouldn't have had a prayer of beating an aging Ali...

Leon beat Ali, despite having only 7 pro fights---which was a stupid move to grab a title that early because It put Leon in a bracket of opponents he wasn't ready for---but Leon was quick and elusive to a certain extent. He lacked size, strength, skills and experience, but he could still slip punches. Ali was not able to hit Leon very cleanly. Leon was able to hit Ali because Ali never slipped punches particularly well.

Tbh I've always harboured a suspicion that Ali threw the first Spinx fight because he knew he could win a rematch and be the first 3 time heavyweight champion. Look what happened to Spinx afterwards: Gerrie Coetzee stopped him in the first and Holmes did it in 3.

Gee gee disrespectful what u spoke about Ali....

[Kalan]

Ali didn't throw the 1st Spinks fight... Ali tried desperately to KO Spinks in the 15th knowing he was way behind... He just couldn't do it.. One judge voted for Ali as was the case in the 1st Norton fight -- so a scandal was barely avoided again..

What I thought really happened was Spinks didn't try very hard to win the rematch... St. Louis cops would follow Leon around in their squad cars and give him tickets galore for doing nothing... He got more tickets in a 3-month period than he had gotten in his previous life.. He got lots of flack and hate from Ali fans as well wherever he went.. Comedians on TV weren't kind to him at all.. People made fun of him.. Emotionally Leon couldn't handle all the negativity -- and it's something that Michael talked about as well.. Michael Spinks was glorified for beating Holmes.. Leon Spinks was hated for beating Ali.

I think that in the rematch Leon just let the title go and he thought it would all be forgiven... He was a little naïve as well... He went down hill quickly.

[Neil Gee]

Ali didn't throw the 1st Spinks fight... Ali tried desperately to KO Spinks in the 15th knowing he was way behind... He just couldn't do it.. One judge voted for Ali as was the case in the 1st Norton fight -- so a scandal was barely avoided again..

What I thought really happened was Spinks didn't try very hard to win the rematch... St. Louis cops would follow Leon around in their squad cars and give him tickets galore for doing nothing... He got more tickets in a 3-month period than he had gotten in his previous life.. He got lots of flack and hate from Ali fans as well wherever he went.. Comedians on TV weren't kind to him at all.. People made fun of him.. Emotionally Leon couldn't handle all the negativity -- and it's something that Michael talked about as well.. Michael Spinks was glorified for beating Holmes.. Leon Spinks was hated for beating Ali.

I think that in the rematch Leon just let the title go and he thought it would all be forgiven... He was a little naïve as well... He went down hill quickly.

Uum, maybe. One things for sure though is that the Spinx rematch was a lot easier for Ali that Norton 4 or fighting Holmes would have been. Ali could have got hurt in either of those fights by 78. The early signs of Parkinson's were there by the time of the Spinx rematch. Ali's speech was already slowing. It's criminal that he was allowed to end his retirement to fight Holmes and Berbick. The cops behaviour to Spinx was criminal too. If that happened today Spinx could have sued for harrassment.

Incidentally, with the third Norton fight, although I thought Ali lost at the time, when you watch the tape back Ali danced for exactly 8 of the 15 rounds and when he was doing that Norton was ineffective or much less effective. If you were scoring it a point per round you could make a case for Ali having won that.

[Kalan]

Ali fought better than I expected in the Norton rubber match... He moved and punched way better than I expected.. But he was still easy to hit and Norton outscored him.. He still got beaten up and didn't do a whole lot to Norton.. Norton expected to win easy and he thought he won it easy.. If you're fighting a very popular and highly respected boxer - you probably have to do more than beat him by a couple rounds.. You basically have to trash him like Norton did to Ali in their 1st fight... He didn't do that.

Norton tried to match Ali with insults and trash talking in the rubber match.. That is Ali's game not Norton's game.. For one thing, Norton was not very funny or entertaining while running his yap.. He was a pain in the ass -- like most people who run their mouths without their brain in gear.. They're just shouting and it's not funny.. Ali knew how to work a crowd and Norton didn't.. At the end of the 15th round Norton kept yelling at Ali "I BEAT YOU!!! I BEAT YOU!!! I BEAT YOU!!! like a broken record.. It was embarrassing ... If the 3 judges were thinking of giving the last round to Norton that probably changed their minds.. If you're a judge, you don't want one of the boxers telling you how you how to score a round or the fight.

[Neil Gee]

Ali fought better than I expected in the Norton rubber match... He moved and punched way better than I expected.. But he was still easy to hit and Norton outscored him.. He still got beaten up and didn't do a whole lot to Norton.. Norton expected to win easy and he thought he won it easy.. If you're fighting a very popular and highly respected boxer - you probably have to do more than beat him by a couple rounds.. You basically have to trash him like Norton did to Ali in their 1st fight... He didn't do that.

Norton tried to match Ali with insults and trash talking in the rubber match.. That is Ali's game not Norton's game.. For one thing, Norton was not very funny or entertaining while running his yap.. He was a pain in the ass -- like most people who run their mouths without their brain in gear.. They're just shouting and it's not funny.. Ali knew how to work a crowd and Norton didn't.. At the end of the 15th round Norton kept yelling at Ali "I BEAT YOU!!! I BEAT YOU!!! I BEAT YOU!!! like a broken record.. It was embarrassing ... If the 3 judges were thinking of giving the last round to Norton that probably changed their minds.. If you're a judge, you don't want one of the boxers telling you how you how to score a round or the fight.

Norton could have been a media darling if he had more of his struggle to bring up Ken Jnr as a single parent. He was twice voted Father of the Year by the Los Angeles Sentinel and the Los Angeles Times in 1977.

Like you say though dealing with the media was Ali's territory. Ali was so good at it because he actually enjoyed it, he made time for everybody and many journalists came to regard Ali as a personal friend.

[sweetviolenturge]

Duane Bobick wouldn't have had a prayer of beating an aging Ali...

Leon beat Ali, despite having only 7 pro fights---which was a stupid move to grab a title that early because It put Leon in a bracket of opponents he wasn't ready for---but Leon was quick and elusive to a certain extent. He lacked size, strength, skills and experience, but he could still slip punches. Ali was not able to hit Leon very cleanly. Leon was able to hit Ali because Ali never slipped punches particularly well.

But Duane Bobick was easier to hit than George Chuvalo and he had zero resistance to punishment. I never saw Bobick slip or duck a punch well. He might have beaten Leon Spinks with his good work rate and bigger size, but never Ali. It's a bit like Jerry Quarry. Quarry could beat the crap out of certain big guys who loaded up their swings, but Jerry wasn't going to beat a bigger, taller boxer who had a jab and a straight right hand. Bobick was bigger and taller than Quarry but easier to hit. He beat guys like LeDoux, Middleton, and Wepner with sheer work rate, but his defense, stance, and mobility were the pits. Anyone with decent skills, or anybody with good resistance combined with good punching power, was going to beat him.

With due respect to your opinion Kalen, I've always been of the thought that Duane Bobick would have had a good shot at upsetting an aged Ali circa '77 - '78.
Had Frazier & Futch decided to forgo the Norton fight & either had Bobick continue on his nationwide barnstorming tour vs journeymen heavies & built his record up to about 40-0, setting up a title shot vs Ali in early '78, I believe he'd have stood a very good chance at beating Ali. who was coming off of a two plus year series of very tough, damaging bouts the likes of Frazier III, Jimmy Young, Norton III & Earnie Shavers. He just had next to nothing left.
And, while Bobick had less speed that Leon Spinks, Duane was much bigger, stronger & had better power.
Yeah, his chin was often a liability, but then, so was Leon's. But, by that point in time Ali had lost the vast majority of the snap on his punches. So, imo, I think it's highly unlikely that Ali would have stopped Bobick.
On the contrary, I think there would have been a very good chance that Bobick, under the direction & guidance of two renowned "Ali beaters" would have had a gameplan quite similar to Frazier, Norton & Spinks. With a steady, debilitating body attack & non-stop pressure.
Which, I think may have been more than enough to outpoint & outfight a shot Ali.