ALL-TIME IRISH BOXERS

surf-bat · Post by **surf-bat** » 04 Mar 2006, 17:30

1. Jimmy McLarnin
2. Nonpareil Jack Dempsey
3. Tom Sharkey
4. Jack McAuliffe
5. Ike Weir
6. Mike McTigue
7. Rinty Monaghan
8. Barry McGuigan
9. George Gardner
10. Wayne McCullough

not a bad contribution from the Emerald Isle

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 04 Mar 2006, 18:11

When you say Irish, your speaking of purely residents then? So no transplants allowed in the ratings I assume.

Question, do fighters enjoy the tax benefits that artists enjoy in Ireland?

gregor · Post by **gregor** » 04 Mar 2006, 18:18

Does Kevin McBride also count as Irish

?

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 04 Mar 2006, 18:52

gregor wrote:Does Kevin McBride also count as Irish ?

yep

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 04 Mar 2006, 19:16

Good list.

Dave McAuley ought to be in there too, at least in equal place to McCullough.

Martin Sosa Cameron · Post by **Martin Sosa Cameron** » 04 Mar 2006, 19:37

May be Jimmy McLarnin the greatest, of course, but, where is Philadelphia Jack O'Brien? And Terry McGovern? I remains, too, Tom McCormick, Mike O'Dowd, Jim Clabby, Bob Murphy, Sean O'Grady and others...

Here, in Argentina, there is an important community of Irish descendants, and the St. Patrick Day is celebrated by a multitude, each year bigger...

I had this list, too, but I don't know who is the number one: Sean O'Casey, George Bernard Shaw, Oscar Wilde, James Joyce, William Butler Yeats, Seamus Haney, and many, many others! Is greatest the Emerald Isle!

Martin Sosa Cameron · Post by **Martin Sosa Cameron** » 04 Mar 2006, 19:40

May be Jimmy McLarnin the greatest, of course, but, where is Philadelphia Jack O'Brien? And Terry McGovern? I remains, too, Tom McCormick, Mike O'Dowd, Jim Clabby, Bob Murphy, Sean O'Grady and others...

Here, in Argentina, there is an important community of Irish descendants, and the St. Patrick Day is celebrated by a multitude, each year bigger...

I had this list, too, but I don't know who is the number one: Sean O'Casey, George Bernard Shaw, Oscar Wilde, James Joyce, William Butler Yeats, Seamus Haney, and many, many others! Is greatest the Emerald Isle!

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 04 Mar 2006, 19:40

I think Neros list is just for Irish born fighters.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 04 Mar 2006, 21:35

10 Best Irish Boxers Born Outside of Erin

1. Packy McFarland
2. Gene Tunney
3. Les Darcy
4. Bob Fitzsimmons
5. Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
6. Kid McCoy
7. Tommy Ryan (I think he was Irish but am not positive)
8. Jimmy Barry
9. Mickey Walker
10. Tommy Gibbons

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 04 Mar 2006, 22:00

Kid Mccoys real name was Norman Selby. Pretty sure no Irish blood.Tommy Ryans real name was Joseph Youngs. His Dad was French Mom English. Darcy was from Australia . I dont know if he was Irish descent. Fitsimmons was English. ... Good lookin list though Seamus we can always throw in Billy Conn, Jimmy Braddock, Terry Mcgovern and Jim Corbett in the place of those four and we are good to go.

surf-bat · Post by **surf-bat** » 05 Mar 2006, 03:13

gregor wrote:Does Kevin McBride also count as Irish ?

Sure does, but he would be lucky to even crack the top 50

surf-bat · Post by **surf-bat** » 05 Mar 2006, 03:15

Collins2000 wrote:Good list.

Dave McAuley ought to be in there too, at least in equal place to McCullough.

That's possible, though McAuley was hurt and floored quite a bit. You couldn't hurt Wayne with a sledgehammer. I also give him props for beating a good Japanese champion(Yakusheji) IN JAPAN BY DECISION! Hard to top that.

surf-bat · Post by **surf-bat** » 05 Mar 2006, 03:18

Martin Sosa Cameron wrote:May be Jimmy McLarnin the greatest, of course, but, where is Philadelphia Jack O'Brien? And Terry McGovern? I remains, too, Tom McCormick, Mike O'Dowd, Jim Clabby, Bob Murphy, Sean O'Grady and others...

Here, in Argentina, there is an important community of Irish descendants, and the St. Patrick Day is celebrated by a multitude, each year bigger...

I had this list, too, but I don't know who is the number one: Sean O'Casey, George Bernard Shaw, Oscar Wilde, James Joyce, William Butler Yeats, Seamus Haney, and many, many others! Is greatest the Emerald Isle!

Those gents, as you know, were not actually born in Ireland. This list was for Irish-born pugs.

Writers? Shaw for playwrights. Joyce for novelists just based on his historical impact, which is absolutely enormous.

Don't forget Samuel Beckett, Jonathan Swift, Patrick Kavanagh, Brendan Behan, Frank McCourt, Nuaala O'Faolain and Bram Stoker

surf-bat · Post by **surf-bat** » 05 Mar 2006, 03:21

Seamus wrote:10 Best Irish Boxers Born Outside of Erin

1. Packy McFarland
2. Gene Tunney
3. Les Darcy
4. Bob Fitzsimmons
5. Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
6. Kid McCoy
7. Tommy Ryan (I think he was Irish but am not positive)
8. Jimmy Barry
9. Mickey Walker
10. Tommy Gibbons

Good list, though expug is right: Ryan and McCoy weren't Irish. I would put Mike Gibbons over Tommy, too. He beat Packy McFarland and held a victory over Harry Greb!

surf-bat · Post by **surf-bat** » 05 Mar 2006, 03:22

My next list will be greatest Celtic fighters*s*

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 05 Mar 2006, 11:17

Yeah, I missed on Kid McCoy, but I have seen Tommy Ryan (Joseph Youngs) listed as Irish before. Do you know what Youngs ancestry was, if it wasen't Irish ?

The vast majority of sources list the McFarland v Gibbons bout as a draw.

I know I'm in the minority, but I do rate Tommy higher than Mike Gibbons. He beat Greb twice, but I base it on more than that.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 05 Mar 2006, 17:31

Nero3000 wrote:
Collins2000 wrote:Good list.

Dave McAuley ought to be in there too, at least in equal place to McCullough.
That's possible, though McAuley was hurt and floored quite a bit. You couldn't hurt Wayne with a sledgehammer. I also give him props for beating a good Japanese champion(Yakusheji) IN JAPAN BY DECISION! Hard to top that.

I like McCullough but I'd rate McAuley higher. Dave's victory over Duke McKenzie is comparable to anything Wayne has done and his stoppage of Jake Matlala far exceeds Wayne's best efforts. McAuley is under-rated.

surf-bat · Post by **surf-bat** » 06 Mar 2006, 03:50

Seamus wrote:Yeah, I missed on Kid McCoy, but I have seen Tommy Ryan (Joseph Youngs) listed as Irish before. Do you know what Youngs ancestry was, if it wasen't Irish ?

The vast majority of sources list the McFarland v Gibbons bout as a draw.

I know I'm in the minority, but I do rate Tommy higher than Mike Gibbons. He beat Greb twice, but I base it on more than that.

I heard that Tommy Ryan was actually of English descent.
I have the Gibbons/McFarland fight on tape. It looked to me like Mike shaded him just a bit, but it was close. I'll have to look at the newspaper clippings again to see what the consensus was. I do remember that both were roundly criticised for their cautious defense-oriented approach. Remember, this was in the era of men like Ad Wolgast, Bat Nelson and guys like that. People wanted blood!

Which Gibbons was the better is definitely open to debate. Tommy's victory over Kid Norfolk may have been his most impressive feat. But don't forget that Mike, in addition to beating Greb(who afterwards shouted at his manager "Next time match me with only one guy at a time!") beat Jeff Smith, Al McCoy, Jimmy Clabby, Eddie McGoorty, George Chip, Mike O'Dowd, Ted "Kid" Lewis, Light-Heavyweight great Jack Dillon(twice) and numerous top contenders.

surf-bat · Post by **surf-bat** » 06 Mar 2006, 03:51

Collins2000 wrote:
Nero3000 wrote:
Collins2000 wrote:Good list.

Dave McAuley ought to be in there too, at least in equal place to McCullough.
That's possible, though McAuley was hurt and floored quite a bit. You couldn't hurt Wayne with a sledgehammer. I also give him props for beating a good Japanese champion(Yakusheji) IN JAPAN BY DECISION! Hard to top that.
I like McCullough but I'd rate McAuley higher. Dave's victory over Duke McKenzie is comparable to anything Wayne has done and his stoppage of Jake Matlala far exceeds Wayne's best efforts. McAuley is under-rated.

You are correct. I accede to your points and revise my list to put McAuley over McCullough.

Crease · Post by **Crease** » 06 Mar 2006, 11:02

After all is said and done...

Rocky Marciano was a gentleman outside the ring,
(and a real mosnter inside it, but he had to be).

How many fighters today could you say that about???

Very few, methinks...

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 06 Mar 2006, 12:27

Nero

Don't forget in addition to his pair of wins over Greb, Tommy Gibbons also beat Battling Levinsky, Georges Carpentier, knocked out a very good Buck Crouse in 4 rounds, took 3 out of 3 from Chuck Wiggins who beat Mike, beat Billy Miske twice, and of course went 15 with Dempsey. Mike was a great fighter too though.

I know Fitzsimmons was born in Cornwall, but obviously his surname is Irish. Real Cornish names are pretty strange, like Taliaferro (no that's not Italian) and Bolitho.

I'm probably a little biased towards Packy McFarland, because I'm from the same neighborhood, but how can you not be biased towards a guy who lost once in a 109 fights.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 06 Mar 2006, 12:31

Ah , Yer a Back O' The yards guy Seamus. Great old neighborhood. Upton Sinclair was in the news the other day. That was always a tough neighborhood. Turned out alotta good scrappers.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 06 Mar 2006, 12:40

Expug

Actually I was born in Englewood, which was heavily Irish at one time, before moving to the Back of the Yards when I was 7. The Back of the Yards never had that large of an Irish population like the "Front of the Yards" (Canaryville) which is still pretty Irish. The area had two parishes that started as Irish, St Rose of Lima (Packy's church) and St Basil, both became a mixture of Irish-Poles and Germans after a short time. The Ancient Order of Hibernians had a large building on 54th-Ashland (still standing) that had a boxing ring, and I've heard unconfirmed reports that Packy sparred there as a youth.

Yes, the Jungle is an outstanding book, and every bit as hard hitting as The Grapes of Wrath.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 06 Mar 2006, 12:44

Im a westsider originaly . Austin area , Many Irish families at one time. I spent much of my youth Boxing at the old CYO gym at Jackson and Racine. How are things in Canaryville these days ? Its not gettin over gentrified I hope.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 06 Mar 2006, 12:47

While on the subject, let's not forget John Millington Synge, the poet Thomas Moore, and of course Maurice Walsh.

As a side note, I once had a teacher from Northwestern tell me that if I said Beckett's "Waiting For Godot" was awful, one more time, that we were going to step outside.