How far can average Joe with concussive right hand go as a pro?

[jamesmcdonnell]

The amount of power a decent pro generates, compared to your average joe is very different. Also, bear in mind, it's one thing landing on a punchbag, another landing on a person, and another landing on a trained fighter, with built up neck and torso muscles who knows how to ride a punch, or brace for it.

I used to go to Clinton McKenzie's gym, and watched him doing padwork with some big 6'4" musclebound dude, who was in his early 20's, Clinton was 50, and maybe 5'8, and about 40 lbs lighter, the guy threw some huge right hook that flew over the top of the pads and caught Clinton flush in the mush - the end result, Clinton laughed and said 'haha - nice shot' and carried on like nothing happened. I think that sums it up.

[Controversial]

Some guys just can't take a punch, no matter how big and mean looking they are. Power alone might get you through a few fights but if you can't box then you will soon get found out. Even the biggest punchers in boxing history don't knock everyone out so power alone isn't aways good enough.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Some guys just can't take a punch, no matter how big and mean looking they are. Power alone might get you through a few fights but if you can't box then you will soon get found out. Even the biggest punchers in boxing history don't knock everyone out so power alone isn't aways good enough.

If you can't box, you won't have much power either.

[Stuarty]

But probably less fit than your average gym rat

And a big, stiff, hopeless fucktard! I'd have honestly given my fat mate a shot of sparking him with little or no training! I still can't believe that actually happened!

Pure fix. Horrible to watch.

True mate! That was not a good night for the sport! Sham!

[lillywhite14]

There's 10000's of 'wish I had given it a go properly, feel like I could have done something' types out there when it comes to boxing. It's actually quite insulting if you think about it!

How do you find such claims Coco? As an ex-pro, does it annoy you or do you laugh and think 'that's a new one...'

Walk in any town centre pub on a Friday and you'll find at least one 'could have been a world champion boxer had I bothered' enjoying a pint.

[Coco]

There's 10000's of 'wish I had given it a go properly, feel like I could have done something' types out there when it comes to boxing. It's actually quite insulting if you think about it!

How do you find such claims Coco? As an ex-pro, does it annoy you or do you laugh and think 'that's a new one...'

Walk in any town centre pub on a Friday and you'll find at least one 'could have been a world champion boxer had I bothered' enjoying a pint.

I heard a lot of that type of talk where I worked on the door, it never bothered me too much as I never took it seriously. I have said to a number of guys to come down the gym, learn a bit and give it a go and absolutely not one has ever taken me up on the offer.
At times they would take your number and promise they would start training, most instantaneously come up with an excuse ranging from work commitments, old injuries and even that their girlfriends won't have it.
If people want to start boxing they will, they don't need to be talked into it, it's something that is either in your its not. Fighting in cold blood is a lot different from looking for a little bloke when you have had a few beers down you.

[jamesmcdonnell]

There's 10000's of 'wish I had given it a go properly, feel like I could have done something' types out there when it comes to boxing. It's actually quite insulting if you think about it!

How do you find such claims Coco? As an ex-pro, does it annoy you or do you laugh and think 'that's a new one...'

Walk in any town centre pub on a Friday and you'll find at least one 'could have been a world champion boxer had I bothered' enjoying a pint.

I heard a lot of that type of talk where I worked on the door, it never bothered me too much as I never took it seriously. I have said to a number of guys to come down the gym, learn a bit and give it a go and absolutely not one has ever taken me up on the offer.
At times they would take your number and promise they would start training, most instantaneously come up with an excuse ranging from work commitments, old injuries and even that their girlfriends won't have it.
If people want to start boxing they will, they don't need to be talked into it, it's something that is either in your its not. Fighting in cold blood is a lot different from looking for a little bloke when you have had a few beers down you.

I've never forgotten seeing a professional fighter throwing up In the sink in the changing rooms at café de paris years ago - and he was a pretty seasoned pro too - that's the level of fear and anxiety that most people could never handle.

[manno]

There's 10000's of 'wish I had given it a go properly, feel like I could have done something' types out there when it comes to boxing. It's actually quite insulting if you think about it!

How do you find such claims Coco? As an ex-pro, does it annoy you or do you laugh and think 'that's a new one...'

Walk in any town centre pub on a Friday and you'll find at least one 'could have been a world champion boxer had I bothered' enjoying a pint.

I heard a lot of that type of talk where I worked on the door, it never bothered me too much as I never took it seriously. I have said to a number of guys to come down the gym, learn a bit and give it a go and absolutely not one has ever taken me up on the offer.
At times they would take your number and promise they would start training, most instantaneously come up with an excuse ranging from work commitments, old injuries and even that their girlfriends won't have it.
If people want to start boxing they will, they don't need to be talked into it, it's something that is either in your its not. Fighting in cold blood is a lot different from looking for a little bloke when you have had a few beers down you.

I've never forgotten seeing a professional fighter throwing up In the sink in the changing rooms at café de paris years ago - and he was a pretty seasoned pro too - that's the level of fear and anxiety that most people could never handle.

This...two of the toughest guys to step in the ring. Sat in a changing room with clinton woods and micky ward...both looked like they wa shittin a brick!

[jamesmcdonnell]

Your average joe wouldn't even make it to the ring most likely, it's one thing brawling when the blood is up, another entirely to get into the ring with a trained fighter who is there to win, at least in most cases.

[Kit]

As with any professional skilled sport you need fitness, mental attitude, speed, skill, technique and Experience.

That's like having a mate who can kick a football really far, but has never really played and giving him in a run out in a professional football team.

At least with football he wanted get hurt,

[Counter-puncher]

As with any professional skilled sport you need fitness, mental attitude, speed, skill, technique and Experience.
,

the first 3 are greatly outweighed by the second three, IMO.

[bigjack]

maybe quite far if he has lots of the following too

Stamina
heart
fitness
good chin,good boxing skills
dedication
will to win
toughness
bottle

you need a combination of most,if not all of the above and also some luck,as well as a good promoter.

[Kit]

The list of must haves is endless, you can also include sport specific intelligence, timing, reflexes, durability - resistance to injury, co-ordination, temperament under extreme pressure.

He could be good at most, but there are people who are excellent! It only takes a few of these boxes to be crossed to be looking for a career outside of boxing,

[rhino222]

if he has a chin to match his punch he can go all the way!

[Coco]

Punching hard is the easy part with boxing, landing the shots is near impossible when you step up in class, and then there is the thing about getting hit back!

[Grilling Machine]

I go against the grain on this one, because I think that having good fitness and power is enough to win small-hall fights with no experience.

The proviso is mindset. I'm 35, walk around at 155 and punch like a solid middleweight. I'm sure I could win some fights. But if I ask myself one simple question - would I ever consider it without that power? - the answer's a resounding no. Because I don't have the skills to keep a good boxer off of me if he doesn't respect my power. I wouldn't be able to feint to conserve energy and so on.

But if you take a que sera attitude to fighting - if you're prepared to lose and potentially take a beating, having that power can definitely be a deciding factor in winning. Treat your power as a nice thing to have - a source of encouragement to pursue boxing - without investing in it, and you can probably do something at national level with absolute commitment to training.

The hardest part of boxing isn't the fear of pain (adrenaline's a massive help until the fight's over), it's the fear of humiliation in front of a crowd. So if you've courage, which is the main ingredient, power might often come through for you. In many of the small-hall fights I've seen, the better-trained guy's won (of which fitness and power are major components), not always the most skilled.

Acquiring boxing skills is similar to weightlifting, insofar as you make huge progress for a while before tapering. That's when you have to start boxing gatekeepers to see where you are, but whether you're 20 or 35 at that point, if you're healthy and you've got it, you've got it. Most guys are done by 35 at the end of hard careers, but in most cases their skills peaked when they were just a few years in. The majority of high-level 40-year-olds either started late or were defensive greats.

[Dixonian]

I go against the grain on this one, because I think that having good fitness and power is enough to win small-hall fights with no experience.

The proviso is mindset. I'm 35, walk around at 155 and punch like a solid middleweight. I'm sure I could win some fights. But if I ask myself one simple question - would I ever consider it without that power? - the answer's a resounding no. Because I don't have the skills to keep a good boxer off of me if he doesn't respect my power. I wouldn't be able to feint to conserve energy and so on.

But if you take a que sera attitude to fighting - if you're prepared to lose and potentially take a beating, having that power can definitely be a deciding factor in winning. Treat your power as a nice thing to have - a source of encouragement to pursue boxing - without investing in it, and you can probably do something at national level with absolute commitment to training.

The hardest part of boxing isn't the fear of pain (adrenaline's a massive help until the fight's over), it's the fear of humiliation in front of a crowd. So if you've courage, which is the main ingredient, power might often come through for you. In many of the small-hall fights I've seen, the better-trained guy's won (of which fitness and power are major components), not always the most skilled.

There are too many good boxers in this country. Seriously. I boxed at a unheralded local gym and the level of talent was an eye-opener. If you go to any local amateur show you'll see some real talent there too. So, just having a bit of pop won't be anywhere near enough. Unless you have freakish punching power - but you'll only know that if you fight proper fighters. Street fights, backyard boxing, knocking a few untrained guys out doesn't mean much.

As a previous poster said: pro fighters know how to take punches, how to ride them, they redefine what constitutes a hard punch.

[Counter-puncher]

In many of the small-hall fights I've seen, the better-trained guy's won (of which fitness and power are major components), not always the most skilled.
.

but that's between two dudes who both have a certain level of experience and technique to begin with, so of course, in that case, the fitter man won.

put a fitter man with little experience against a guy with some experience, that experienced dude will have a walk in the park with it 9/10 times IMO

Most guys are done by 35 at the end of hard careers, but in most cases their skills peaked when they were just a few years in

hmm, not sure on that.

[Grilling Machine]

As a previous poster said: pro fighters know how to take punches, how to ride them, they redefine what constitutes a hard punch.

And of course, not everyone with power knows how to throw against a moving target! I've seen plenty of green young 'uns hammering the bag fairly impressively, but when they come to fight they mostly lead with their chins and throw their shots from Alabama. The worst is when they cue their right hands up, hand just floating by their waist as they clomp forward, waiting for an opening.

It's rare to see someone boxing brilliantly in their first fight, but I think that's because almost everyone with talent can't wait to get in there. If someone with natural talent and no experience took a year or so in the gym to prepare, I think they could hit the ground running. But like you say, the vast majority of those candidates are happy to just train and spar.

hmm, not sure on that.

We don't usually see the best of a boxer until he reaches his defining fights (for obvious reasons), but that doesn't preclude his skills peaking long before. Hatton's the perfect example for me, and I think we all agree on pre-Vietnam Ali?

In terms of age, Jo Pavey won her gold medal at 40 (and we know about Pop Hopkins), and Ed Moses was in ferocious shape long after he retired. The key difference is that - for all the long-term wear on their bodies - they weren't taking head shots. Cumulative brain damage is the most common career-ender in boxing, and because it tends to occur by most boxer's mid-30s, I think there's a misconception that boxing fitness nosedives around the same time.

This misconception also applies to football, where - barring serious injuries - people accept the mid-30s as the inevitable end. Glenn Hoddle (of all people!) recently said a similar thing in agreement about Rooney - that his experience makes the game easier for him, and his fitness is only - potentially, if he trains hard - slightly off the boil. But PL footballers are so rich by their 30s they've no great incentive to play on.

[edit]

I'm surprised no-one's mentioned Marciano. Started boxing at 24, right? Didn't come much tougher, though.

[jamesmcdonnell]

As a previous poster said: pro fighters know how to take punches, how to ride them, they redefine what constitutes a hard punch.

And of course, not everyone with power knows how to throw against a moving target! I've seen plenty of green young 'uns hammering the bag fairly impressively, but when they come to fight they mostly lead with their chins and throw their shots from Alabama. The worst is when they cue their right hands up, hand just floating by their waist as they clomp forward, waiting for an opening.

It's rare to see someone boxing brilliantly in their first fight, but I think that's because almost everyone with talent can't wait to get in there. If someone with natural talent and no experience took a year or so in the gym to prepare, I think they could hit the ground running. But like you say, the vast majority of those candidates are happy to just train and spar.

hmm, not sure on that.

We don't usually see the best of a boxer until he reaches his defining fights (for obvious reasons), but that doesn't preclude his skills peaking long before. Hatton's the perfect example for me, and I think we all agree on pre-Vietnam Ali?

In terms of age, Jo Pavey won her gold medal at 40 (and we know about Pop Hopkins), and Ed Moses was in ferocious shape long after he retired. The key difference is that - for all the long-term wear on their bodies - they weren't taking head shots. Cumulative brain damage is the most common career-ender in boxing, and because it tends to occur by most boxer's mid-30s, I think there's a misconception that boxing fitness nosedives around the same time.

This misconception also applies to football, where - barring serious injuries - people accept the mid-30s as the inevitable end. Glenn Hoddle (of all people!) recently said a similar thing in agreement about Rooney - that his experience makes the game easier for him, and his fitness is only - potentially, if he trains hard - slightly off the boil. But PL footballers are so rich by their 30s they've no great incentive to play on.

[edit]

I'm surprised no-one's mentioned Marciano. Started boxing at 24, right? Didn't come much tougher, though.

Reflexes slow gradually as we age, and in boxing, reflexes are all important - we've all seen the fighter who just can't seem to "pull the trigger" - their brain knows what it wants the arms to do, but the nerve impulses aren't quick enough, and by the time they react, the target isn't there, and they become hesitant.

One of the major reasons athletes retire in their mid to late 30's. is injury, Daley Thompson said years ago that the reason he retired wasn't that he couldn't perform, his training times, distances and heights were still right up there, but unfortunately, the injuries meant long breaks in training which hampered performance, and he couldn't therefore compete at the highest level any more.

Sadly there are age related degeneration to our tissues as we age, especially the bones, ligaments and tendons, which are key in mobility. Bone spurs grow and press on nerve bundles causing pain, ligaments thin and tear, tendons degenerate and become more prone to inflammation and tearing too, blood flow to muscles decreases due to vessel damage. Obviously we all age at different rates however, but the process begins to really kick in around the mid to late 30's, as a variety of degenerative conditions set in, and our hormonal output declines.

Sadly, these are processes I'm all too aware of, having been wracked with injuries over the last year, all of them age related.

[jamesmcdonnell]

As a previous poster said: pro fighters know how to take punches, how to ride them, they redefine what constitutes a hard punch.

And of course, not everyone with power knows how to throw against a moving target! I've seen plenty of green young 'uns hammering the bag fairly impressively, but when they come to fight they mostly lead with their chins and throw their shots from Alabama. The worst is when they cue their right hands up, hand just floating by their waist as they clomp forward, waiting for an opening.

It's rare to see someone boxing brilliantly in their first fight, but I think that's because almost everyone with talent can't wait to get in there. If someone with natural talent and no experience took a year or so in the gym to prepare, I think they could hit the ground running. But like you say, the vast majority of those candidates are happy to just train and spar.

hmm, not sure on that.

We don't usually see the best of a boxer until he reaches his defining fights (for obvious reasons), but that doesn't preclude his skills peaking long before. Hatton's the perfect example for me, and I think we all agree on pre-Vietnam Ali?

In terms of age, Jo Pavey won her gold medal at 40 (and we know about Pop Hopkins), and Ed Moses was in ferocious shape long after he retired. The key difference is that - for all the long-term wear on their bodies - they weren't taking head shots. Cumulative brain damage is the most common career-ender in boxing, and because it tends to occur by most boxer's mid-30s, I think there's a misconception that boxing fitness nosedives around the same time.

This misconception also applies to football, where - barring serious injuries - people accept the mid-30s as the inevitable end. Glenn Hoddle (of all people!) recently said a similar thing in agreement about Rooney - that his experience makes the game easier for him, and his fitness is only - potentially, if he trains hard - slightly off the boil. But PL footballers are so rich by their 30s they've no great incentive to play on.

[edit]

I'm surprised no-one's mentioned Marciano. Started boxing at 24, right? Didn't come much tougher, though.

Marciano did seem to possess seemingly supernatural toughness. Took some ferocious punishment during his career.

[Coco]

I go against the grain on this one, because I think that having good fitness and power is enough to win small-hall fights with no experience.

The proviso is mindset. I'm 35, walk around at 155 and punch like a solid middleweight. I'm sure I could win some fights. But if I ask myself one simple question - would I ever consider it without that power? - the answer's a resounding no. Because I don't have the skills to keep a good boxer off of me if he doesn't respect my power. I wouldn't be able to feint to conserve energy and so on.

But if you take a que sera attitude to fighting - if you're prepared to lose and potentially take a beating, having that power can definitely be a deciding factor in winning. Treat your power as a nice thing to have - a source of encouragement to pursue boxing - without investing in it, and you can probably do something at national level with absolute commitment to training.

The hardest part of boxing isn't the fear of pain (adrenaline's a massive help until the fight's over), it's the fear of humiliation in front of a crowd. So if you've courage, which is the main ingredient, power might often come through for you. In many of the small-hall fights I've seen, the better-trained guy's won (of which fitness and power are major components), not always the most skilled.

Acquiring boxing skills is similar to weightlifting, insofar as you make huge progress for a while before tapering. That's when you have to start boxing gatekeepers to see where you are, but whether you're 20 or 35 at that point, if you're healthy and you've got it, you've got it. Most guys are done by 35 at the end of hard careers, but in most cases their skills peaked when they were just a few years in. The majority of high-level 40-year-olds either started late or were defensive greats.

Clearly the obvious thing to do is to have a fight, or just to some sparring, to prove your point

[Happy Slapper]

Nowhere. I competed in a corporate boxing even two years ago having never properly boxed before. I'm a good sportsman in general terms and I found it easy to out-box local hard nuts.

Then I sparred the guy who organised the whole thing, an ex-pro who fought Amir Khan on his way up but was essentially a journeyman. I got mullered. Badly, badly beaten up and he wasn't really even trying.