The MIDDLEWEIGHT game: *CLOSED*

[Tomasino]

I was at work when I answered. I wasn't being childish, just brief. It actually is my reason. I think he's the best ever. I think he would beat everyone else on the list. Is that a good enough answer or do you want more?

Your first answer is just like saying 'because'

At least I now know your criteria for rating fighters is H2H so thanks for taking the time to elaborate.

Have you read about the Sam Langford fiasco?

What do you want me to say? I'm not trying to be funny or anything. Why did you vote for your #1?

I've read a few different versions of the Langford fight. One thing is for sure, Ketchel didn't mind fighting black guys. Stanley and Jack were on good terms and so were he and Langford.

Ketchel was in terrible physical condition when he fought Langford and it wasn't his best performance, but they had both agreed to the fight in order to sell a title fight down the line. After his next three outings, Stanley went to R.P. Dickerson's place in order to recover from years of booze, opium and prostitutes and the rest is history.

I don't want you to say anything. I just asked why because I was interested in your response.

I voted for my no1 because of the sheer number of great fighters he beat and the enormous acheievements he made while at 160lbs. I think it's a really tough division to rate and the top guys all beat each other at some point if they all fought. I wanted to rate ketchel high based on his power and ferocity but his early demise let him down compared to some. Like I said I'd have Burley or Langford at top H2H

[keithmoonhangover]

The record book says Toney beat Tiberi.. JT broke his ankle in the 1st round and still won somehow.. He ended Tiberi's career.. Robinson lost to Randy Turpin, Ralph Jones, Carmen Basilio, Ralph Jones, and Joey Maxim... Do you see any of them beating Toney??? He destroys all those crude swingers and flailers without even trying... Maxim could box a little bit, but wasn't in the same class as Toney as a craftsman.. And Joey was so slow and punchless he'd be a 10-1 underdog versus Toney.. Maxim had a 19% KO ratio.. He couldn't beat Jirov.

The record book, as you know, is wrong. Do I see any of those fighters beating Toney? At middleweight, Toney was beaten my Tiberi, ran very close by Reggie Johnson and lost almost every round to Nunn before the stoppage.

A simple question for you. Just give me a yes or no answer.

Did Robinson ever lose to anyone as poor as Tiberi?

Damned right he did ... Tiberi was very good that night and Toney never lost a Middleweight Title Fight.. JT's first loss was to Roy Jones in his 47th fight.. Jones would have destroyed Robinson with his speed and elusiveness.. Robinson was too easy to hit and lost to Ralph Jones who was coming off 5 straight losses.. He refused a rematch.. Did Robinson ever beat a Super Middleweight, Light Heavyweight, Cruiserweight, or Heavyweight??? Toney beat plenty of them -- Robinson was 0-1 against guys 168 or heavier. SRR was very slender and hittable compared to Toney, and that's why he had such a hard time at Middleweight. SRR was 3-3 in Middleweight Title Defenses while James Toney was undefeated in 6 Middleweight Title Defenses - one of the better records ever... Robinson never fought a Middleweight the caliber of Michael Nunn, Reggie Johnson, or Mike McCallum.

Stop trolling.

[keithmoonhangover]

Your first answer is just like saying 'because'

At least I now know your criteria for rating fighters is H2H so thanks for taking the time to elaborate.

Have you read about the Sam Langford fiasco?

What do you want me to say? I'm not trying to be funny or anything. Why did you vote for your #1?

I've read a few different versions of the Langford fight. One thing is for sure, Ketchel didn't mind fighting black guys. Stanley and Jack were on good terms and so were he and Langford.

Ketchel was in terrible physical condition when he fought Langford and it wasn't his best performance, but they had both agreed to the fight in order to sell a title fight down the line. After his next three outings, Stanley went to R.P. Dickerson's place in order to recover from years of booze, opium and prostitutes and the rest is history.

I don't want you to say anything. I just asked why because I was interested in your response.

I voted for my no1 because of the sheer number of great fighters he beat and the enormous acheievements he made while at 160lbs. I think it's a really tough division to rate and the top guys all beat each other at some point. I wanted to rate ketchel high but his early demise let him down compared to some. Like I said I'd have Burley or Langford at top H2H

Demise? He lost to a heavyweight ATG after flooring him in a very tough fight. He lost to Langford by newspaper decision in a non title tune up.

Demise?

[Tomasino]

What do you want me to say? I'm not trying to be funny or anything. Why did you vote for your #1?

I've read a few different versions of the Langford fight. One thing is for sure, Ketchel didn't mind fighting black guys. Stanley and Jack were on good terms and so were he and Langford.

Ketchel was in terrible physical condition when he fought Langford and it wasn't his best performance, but they had both agreed to the fight in order to sell a title fight down the line. After his next three outings, Stanley went to R.P. Dickerson's place in order to recover from years of booze, opium and prostitutes and the rest is history.

I don't want you to say anything. I just asked why because I was interested in your response.

I voted for my no1 because of the sheer number of great fighters he beat and the enormous acheievements he made while at 160lbs. I think it's a really tough division to rate and the top guys all beat each other at some point. I wanted to rate ketchel high but his early demise let him down compared to some. Like I said I'd have Burley or Langford at top H2H

Demise? He lost to a heavyweight ATG after flooring him in a very tough fight. He lost to Langford by newspaper decision in a non title tune up.

Demise?

Murdered while convalescing to get over his addictions wasn't he?

Honestly you seen to be deliberately obtuse.

[keithmoonhangover]

I don't want you to say anything. I just asked why because I was interested in your response.

I voted for my no1 because of the sheer number of great fighters he beat and the enormous acheievements he made while at 160lbs. I think it's a really tough division to rate and the top guys all beat each other at some point. I wanted to rate ketchel high but his early demise let him down compared to some. Like I said I'd have Burley or Langford at top H2H

Demise? He lost to a heavyweight ATG after flooring him in a very tough fight. He lost to Langford by newspaper decision in a non title tune up.

Demise?

Murdered while convalescing to get over his addictions wasn't he?

Honestly if I was having this convo with you in person I'd be thinking 'what a dick!' You seen to be deliberately obtuse.

I have absolutely no idea why you would think that. I am just typing what I think. I'm not deliberately doing anything other than chatting about boxing.

When you mentioned his demise, I thought you meant a career demise, not his death.

[Keko]

We need updated.

[davie]

Out of interest (and there is obviously no right or wrong answer to this as we'll never know) do you think it's likely Ketchel might have topped this list if he never popped his clogs so early?

[Tomasino]

Out of interest (and there is obviously no right or wrong answer to this as we'll never know) do you think it's likely Ketchel might have topped this list if he never popped his clogs so early?

Yes if he'd beaten more greats, and absolutely if he had beaten Langford in a fair fight over 15-45 rounds. I don't see it myself. If Ketchel managed to regain his health and fitness instead of being murdered and granted Langford a chance I'd say it would be Sam topping the list.

[Crease]

We need updated.

Will be updated tomorrow.

[Kalan]

The record book, as you know, is wrong. Do I see any of those fighters beating Toney? At middleweight, Toney was beaten my Tiberi, ran very close by Reggie Johnson and lost almost every round to Nunn before the stoppage.

A simple question for you. Just give me a yes or no answer.

Did Robinson ever lose to anyone as poor as Tiberi?

Damned right he did ... Tiberi was very good that night and Toney never lost a Middleweight Title Fight.. JT's first loss was to Roy Jones in his 47th fight.. Jones would have destroyed Robinson with his speed and elusiveness.. Robinson was too easy to hit and lost to Ralph Jones who was coming off 5 straight losses.. He refused a rematch.. Did Robinson ever beat a Super Middleweight, Light Heavyweight, Cruiserweight, or Heavyweight??? Toney beat plenty of them -- Robinson was 0-1 against guys 168 or heavier. SRR was very slender and hittable compared to Toney, and that's why he had such a hard time at Middleweight. SRR was 3-3 in Middleweight Title Defenses while James Toney was undefeated in 6 Middleweight Title Defenses - one of the better records ever... Robinson never fought a Middleweight the caliber of Michael Nunn, Reggie Johnson, or Mike McCallum.

Stop trolling.

You make no sense, and you have no argument.

[keithmoonhangover]

Damned right he did ... Tiberi was very good that night and Toney never lost a Middleweight Title Fight.. JT's first loss was to Roy Jones in his 47th fight.. Jones would have destroyed Robinson with his speed and elusiveness.. Robinson was too easy to hit and lost to Ralph Jones who was coming off 5 straight losses.. He refused a rematch.. Did Robinson ever beat a Super Middleweight, Light Heavyweight, Cruiserweight, or Heavyweight??? Toney beat plenty of them -- Robinson was 0-1 against guys 168 or heavier. SRR was very slender and hittable compared to Toney, and that's why he had such a hard time at Middleweight. SRR was 3-3 in Middleweight Title Defenses while James Toney was undefeated in 6 Middleweight Title Defenses - one of the better records ever... Robinson never fought a Middleweight the caliber of Michael Nunn, Reggie Johnson, or Mike McCallum.

Stop trolling.

You make no sense, and you have no argument.

Even if I had an entire buildings filled with teams of intellectuals working around the clock, they would never be able to work out why you say the things you do. Wilt over Ali ruins every argument you will ever have.

[Kalan]

That made the most sense of all... Wilt was 11 inches taller.. 23" reach advantage... 80 pound weight advantage... unbeatable endurance and durability as an athlete... Averaged more minutes and grabbed, more rebounds, scored more points in a game than any player in history... Impressed one of the greatest boxing trainers in history, Cus D'Amato, with his natural balance, mobility, foot speed, and ability to flick powerful punches out with little effort, as easily as firing a full court chest pass. This is why Ali refused to sign the painstakingly negotiated contract.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s

[BoxBuzz]

Back in those days, as some of you may remember, Dick Weber ruled the bowling lanes.......

It was proven on many occasions that Wilt could throw a single Bowling ball, and knock down all the pins in an entire Bowling Alley

This is why Dick Weber would never sign to play Wilt. Contracts were drawn up.......And Dick declined to sign.


It is widely assumed that Wilt would beat Dick.

Perhaps brutally, and mercilessly,

But in reality........

Wilt never beat Dick.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

1. Greb
2. Hagler
3. Robinson
4. Monzon
5. H Williams
6. Burley
7. Steele
8. Hopkins
9. M Gibbons
10. O'Dowd

[Kalan]

Back in those days, as some of you may remember, Dick Weber ruled the bowling lanes.......

It was proven on many occasions that Wilt could throw a single Bowling ball, and knock down all the pins in an entire Bowling Alley

This is why Dick Weber would never sign to play Wilt. Contracts were drawn up.......And Dick declined to sign.


It is widely assumed that Wilt would beat Dick.

Perhaps brutally, and mercilessly,

But in reality........

Wilt never beat Dick.

No, but you beat yours often BuzzBox... You're going insane and blind from it.

Bowling requires no strength... no size... no height... no reach... no reflexes... no creativity... no imagination... no athletic flair or ability at all... actually if you're short it's better because you're lower to the ground.. All it requires is endless monotonous practice... It's a super simple game where you take 4 or 5 steps, and roll the ball into the 1-3 pocket again and again like a machine would do it. There may be a little finesse in picking up spares, but if you're really good you don't leave any spares.. you just roll strikes.. It's like shooting free throws, only more boring.. The only thing worse than bowling is watching bowling.. There's more creativity in billiards, croquet, jacks, hopscotch, dodge ball, red rover, leap frog, tag, musical chairs, and captain may I.

[Keko]

We need updated.

Will be updated tomorrow.

[Crease]

I've been extremely busy over the past few days, I'm not going to have time for the update today.
But please gents, feel free to keep on voting, I'll catch up with this when I get a free hour or two.
You have my word.

[Keko]

I've been extremely busy over the past few days, I'm not going to have time for the update today.
But please gents, feel free to keep on voting, I'll catch up with this when I get a free hour or two.
You have my word.

For a weekend get if you do not do before me It seems to me that there are some changes and looks interesting.

[Crease]

For a weekend get if you do not do before me It seems to me that there are some changes and looks interesting.

Don't worry Mr Keko, it will all be done, I assure you.

[Keko]

For a weekend get if you do not do before me It seems to me that there are some changes and looks interesting.

Don't worry Mr Keko, it will all be done, I assure you.

ok Mr.Crease

[davie]

For a weekend get if you do not do before me It seems to me that there are some changes and looks interesting.

Don't worry Mr Keko, it will all be done, I assure you.

ok Mr.Crease

As long as it results in the Marvelous one finishing above Monzon

[Crease]

As long as it results in the Marvelous one finishing above Monzon

But it's so close to call between them, isn't it? So evenly matched...

[davie]

As long as it results in the Marvelous one finishing above Monzon

But it's so close to call between them, isn't it? So evenly matched...

Marv knocks lumps out of him

[Crease]

Marv knocks lumps out of him

Really? I tended to lean ever so slightly to Monzon breaking him down.

[BoxBuzz]

Back in those days, as some of you may remember, Dick Weber ruled the bowling lanes.......

It was proven on many occasions that Wilt could throw a single Bowling ball, and knock down all the pins in an entire Bowling Alley

This is why Dick Weber would never sign to play Wilt. Contracts were drawn up.......And Dick declined to sign.


It is widely assumed that Wilt would beat Dick.

Perhaps brutally, and mercilessly,

But in reality........

Wilt never beat Dick.

No, but you beat yours often BuzzBox... You're going insane and blind from it.

Bowling requires no strength... no size... no height... no reach... no reflexes... no creativity... no imagination... no athletic flair or ability at all... actually if you're short it's better because you're lower to the ground.. All it requires is endless monotonous practice... It's a super simple game where you take 4 or 5 steps, and roll the ball into the 1-3 pocket again and again like a machine would do it. There may be a little finesse in picking up spares, but if you're really good you don't leave any spares.. you just roll strikes.. It's like shooting free throws, only more boring.. The only thing worse than bowling is watching bowling.. There's more creativity in billiards, croquet, jacks, hopscotch, dodge ball, red rover, leap frog, tag, musical chairs, and captain may I.

I'm tellin' ya with you as straight man, we can take this act on the road, but I want 60%.

As far as Wilt beating Dick, I'm guessing you're in a position to know.