Joe Louis vs Joe Mesi

[Jaywheel]

Louis lost twice by KO to small Marciano and Schmeling. Bum of the month tour inflated his record. Overall better wins nonetheless.
Mesi was a solid 230 lbs, retired undefeated with an 81% KO ratio. 11 first round KO's.
This has the smell of a highly competitive bout. Unless Baby Joe is just too big? The brown bomber was able to defeat clumsy carnera though.
What's your take?

[keithmoonhangover]

Louis lost twice by KO to small Marciano and Schmeling. Bum of the month tour inflated his record. Overall better wins nonetheless.
Mesi was a solid 230 lbs, retired undefeated with an 81% KO ratio. 11 first round KO's.
This has the smell of a highly competitive bout. Unless Baby Joe is just too big? The brown bomber was able to defeat clumsy carnera though.
What's your take?

Mesi wins because he's bigger and never lost.

[Ambling Alp II]

If Mesi had won a WBS title and had some of those all important title defenses against mediocre opponents than perhaps. That would certainly prove he was great.

[gilgamesh]

Louis wins inside 3 rounds.

First serious response to the thread. Do I get a prize?

[keithmoonhangover]

Louis wins inside 3 rounds.

First serious response to the thread. Do I get a prize?

[gilgamesh]

Louis wins inside 3 rounds.

First serious response to the thread. Do I get a prize?

Awwwwwwwww Raspberries

[BoxBuzz]

Here is all you need to know.

Joe Mesi NEVER lost to a fighter who stood 6'2.

Joe Mesi NEVER lost to a fighter when he had a 3 inch reach advantage over them. 76 vs 79 for Mesi in this case.

Joe Mesi NEVER lost to a fighter between the ages of 20 to 37 (All the active years that Joe Louis ever fought)

Joe Mesi NEVER lost to a fighter from the U.S.A. (Joe Louis was from the U.S.A.)



Hell, I don't know what more stats you morons need supplied to you, in order to figure this out.

Do the math.

[Kalan]

Louis lost twice by KO to small Marciano and Schmeling. Bum of the month tour inflated his record. Overall better wins nonetheless.
Mesi was a solid 230 lbs, retired undefeated with an 81% KO ratio. 11 first round KO's.
This has the smell of a highly competitive bout. Unless Baby Joe is just too big? The brown bomber was able to defeat clumsy carnera though.
What's your take?

Mesi would have gotten killed by anybody of Joe Louis's caliber.. Mesi had no idea what he was doing.. HIs skills were pathetic.. Monte Barrett and Vasily Jirov both beat Mesi and you know it---and neither could fight well or had good skills.. Mesi was the most sheltered and protected boxer I've ever seen.. Tommy Morrison had a bad chin, was super slow, and was easy to hit as a punching bag -- but at least Morrison fought the Lennox Lewis's and Ray Mercer's of the world... Mesi avoided them like the plague... Morrison got murdered when he fought Heavyweight that good, but he made a lot more money than Mesi ever did. Too bad Tommy's reckless life style led to an early death.

[BoxBuzz]

Ok, I just read Kalan's take on this.

It seems to check out.

I think he has it right, and I.....admittedly,...... was wrong.

My facts were correct.....but I was drawing wrong conclusions from the raw data.

[keithmoonhangover]

Louis lost twice by KO to small Marciano and Schmeling. Bum of the month tour inflated his record. Overall better wins nonetheless.
Mesi was a solid 230 lbs, retired undefeated with an 81% KO ratio. 11 first round KO's.
This has the smell of a highly competitive bout. Unless Baby Joe is just too big? The brown bomber was able to defeat clumsy carnera though.
What's your take?

Mesi had no idea what he was doing.. HIs skills were pathetic.

From the man who thinks a guy with ZERO boxing experience would beat one of the greatest boxers to ever walk the face of the earth.

[keithmoonhangover]

Monte Barrett and Vasily Jirov both beat Mesi and you know it---

And Dave Tiberi beat James Toney, but you ignore that.

[Jaywheel]

Louis lost twice by KO to small Marciano and Schmeling. Bum of the month tour inflated his record. Overall better wins nonetheless.
Mesi was a solid 230 lbs, retired undefeated with an 81% KO ratio. 11 first round KO's.
This has the smell of a highly competitive bout. Unless Baby Joe is just too big? The brown bomber was able to defeat clumsy carnera though.
What's your take?

Mesi would have gotten killed by anybody of Joe Louis's caliber.. Mesi had no idea what he was doing.. HIs skills were pathetic.. Monte Barrett and Vasily Jirov both beat Mesi and you know it---and neither could fight well or had good skills.. Mesi was the most sheltered and protected boxer I've ever seen.. Tommy Morrison had a bad chin, was super slow, and was easy to hit as a punching bag -- but at least Morrison fought the Lennox Lewis's and Ray Mercer's of the world... Mesi avoided them like the plague... Morrison got murdered when he fought Heavyweight that good, but he made a lot more money than Mesi ever did. Too bad Tommy's reckless life style led to an early death.

Let's talk about Joe Louis caliber. Fought Omelio Agramonte twice and could never knock him out. Dude was KOed 7 times. Louis had 2 chances and couldn't do it. Agramonte wasn't even 190lbs. Natie Brown was KOed 8 times and Louis couldn't put him away. Yes Louis looks more skilled than Mesi. He's fighting Carneras Galentos...
Whereas it still took solid fighters to get through Jirov. Only Toney, Moorer and Mesi were able to. And why allude to the Barrett fight? Barrett is the first one ever to knock down iron-chinned Tua, something even Joe Frazier couldn't dream of. Some special kind of power. It is a testament of Mesi's iron will and chin to have been able to overcome the onslaught brought by Barrett and win this fight. If Frazier wouldn't withstand Tua's freak power, a men who KOed David Izon in 12, I seriously doubt that Joe Louis could absorb Mesi's attack, considering he KOed the same Izon in 9.

[Ambling Alp II]

Wait a minute. Jaywheel -Are you being serious? I think everyone thought this thread was supposed to be funny.

[Controversial]

Let's talk about Joe Louis caliber. Fought Omelio Agramonte twice and could never knock him out. Dude was KOed 7 times. Louis had 2 chances and couldn't do it. Agramonte wasn't even 190lbs. Natie Brown was KOed 8 times and Louis couldn't put him away.

Louis was way past his best by the time he fought Agramonte. He retired three years prior and was on the decline then, his comeback stats prove his punch was lost, his final ten fights going 8-2 with just 3 kos (one of them a cut eye stoppage). You also fail to mention Louis knocked out Natie Brown in the rematch.

[BoxBuzz]

Pssst....Alp.....in the jaywheel case, Think edgy sarcasm/irony with a bit of WTF ishness, and I think you'll be ok.

IMHO some of us are having our way with one members ability to on occasion appear to be fully lucid with strong assessment skills, and on other occasions bewitch and bewilder some of us with bizzaro style critiques.

I see one of two scenarios playing out.

A. There is a contributor here who demonstrates two entirely different personalities....a clinical case example of dual personality syndrome.

OR B. .....someone has stolen a contributors password, and willfully contributes confusing and befuddling information, at the expense of the highly esteemed original account holders reputation and good name.

Pick one.

[Jaywheel]

Wait a minute. Jaywheel -Are you being serious? I think everyone thought this thread was supposed to be funny.

Isn't it?

[Ambling Alp II]

Yes it has been pretty funny. Sorry, for a minute there, I thought you were serious.

[Tomasino]

Yes it has been pretty funny. Sorry, for a minute there, I thought you were serious.

Such is the state of the board with its trolling Mod and monkey brain alter egos.

[cfang]

Louis KO1-3

[Kalan]

Louis lost twice by KO to small Marciano and Schmeling. Bum of the month tour inflated his record. Overall better wins nonetheless.
Mesi was a solid 230 lbs, retired undefeated with an 81% KO ratio. 11 first round KO's.
This has the smell of a highly competitive bout. Unless Baby Joe is just too big? The brown bomber was able to defeat clumsy carnera though.
What's your take?

Mesi had no idea what he was doing.. HIs skills were pathetic.

From the man who thinks a guy with ZERO boxing experience would beat one of the greatest boxers to ever walk the face of the earth

But one of the greatest individual athletes who ever walked the face of the earth... A man who had the massive height, size, strength, speed, reflexes, and intelligence to convince one of the greatest trainers in the History of Boxing---a man who predicted both Floyd Patterson and Mike Tyson would be the youngest Heavyweight Champions in Fistic HIstory because he trained them both---that with 6 months of intense training he had the beating of Muhammad Ali. How many athletes in history, who never boxed professionally, could you put in a road show, promoting a fight with Muhammad Ali??? That is, besides Wilt Chamberlain. The only thing that prevented Chamberlain form crushing Ali was Ali refusing to sign the negotiated contract to fight him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s

[keithmoonhangover]

Mesi had no idea what he was doing.. HIs skills were pathetic.

From the man who thinks a guy with ZERO boxing experience would beat one of the greatest boxers to ever walk the face of the earth

But one of the greatest individual athletes who ever walked the face of the earth... A man who had the massive height, size, strength, speed, reflexes, and intelligence to convince one of the greatest trainers in the History of Boxing---a man who predicted both Floyd Patterson and Mike Tyson would be the youngest Heavyweight Champions in Fistic HIstory because he trained them both---that with 6 months of intense training he had the beating of Muhammad Ali. How many athletes in history, who never boxed professionally, could you put in a road show, promoting a fight with Muhammad Ali??? That is, besides Wilt Chamberlain. The only thing that prevented Chamberlain form crushing Ali was Ali refusing to sign the negotiated contract to fight him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s

God, you are a brainless fool.

[BoxBuzz]

Mesi had no idea what he was doing.. HIs skills were pathetic.

From the man who thinks a guy with ZERO boxing experience would beat one of the greatest boxers to ever walk the face of the earth

But one of the greatest individual athletes who ever walked the face of the earth... A man who had the massive height, size, strength, speed, reflexes, and intelligence to convince one of the greatest trainers in the History of Boxing---a man who predicted both Floyd Patterson and Mike Tyson would be the youngest Heavyweight Champions in Fistic HIstory because he trained them both---that with 6 months of intense training he had the beating of Muhammad Ali. How many athletes in history, who never boxed professionally, could you put in a road show, promoting a fight with Muhammad Ali??? That is, besides Wilt Chamberlain. The only thing that prevented Chamberlain form crushing Ali was Ali refusing to sign the negotiated contract to fight him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s

I'd never heard this theory of yours before.

So, if I'm getting this right, Wilt Chamberlain the great basketball player and very very tall guy, could defeat Muhammad Ali in boxing match, had they actually gone through with fight that was being discussed back in the day?

You know, if you're right that's probably the very reason why Ali never signed to fight him. What do you think?

Do you currently live in Colorado or Washington?
Just curious.

I read a poll a while back that indicated that these are the two states where this belief is most prevalent.

[Kalan]

From the man who thinks a guy with ZERO boxing experience would beat one of the greatest boxers to ever walk the face of the earth

But one of the greatest individual athletes who ever walked the face of the earth... A man who had the massive height, size, strength, speed, reflexes, and intelligence to convince one of the greatest trainers in the History of Boxing---a man who predicted both Floyd Patterson and Mike Tyson would be the youngest Heavyweight Champions in Fistic HIstory because he trained them both---that with 6 months of intense training he had the beating of Muhammad Ali. How many athletes in history, who never boxed professionally, could you put in a road show, promoting a fight with Muhammad Ali??? That is, besides Wilt Chamberlain. The only thing that prevented Chamberlain form crushing Ali was Ali refusing to sign the negotiated contract to fight him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s

I'd never heard this theory of yours before.

So, if I'm getting this right, Wilt Chamberlain the great basketball player and very very tall guy, could defeat Muhammad Ali in boxing match, had they actually gone through with fight that was being discussed back in the day?

You know, if you're right that's probably the very reason why Ali never signed to fight him. What do you think?

Do you currently live in Colorado or Washington?

Just curious.

I read a poll a while back that indicated that these are the two states where this belief is most prevalent.

I don't base my analysis off polls or popular opinion... Polls and popular opinion were almost unanimous that little Mike Tyson would be victorious over the much bigger 6'4" X 232 Buster Douglas, weren't they??? ... 20/20 hindsight told the story of that fight, not expert analysis.. Chamberlain was very interested in Boxing and HAD actually boxed.. He's the guy who challenged Ali, and he had good reason to.. It wasn't Ali who challenged Chamberlain -- but Wilt was so fast, athletic, and powerful no sparring partner could stay with him when he started to poke punches at them..

The same attributes that allowed Chamberlain to lead the NBA in scoring, rebounding, assists, minutes played, foul shots made in a game, and many other categories of play---his sheer size, strength, speed, balance, athleticism, vision, anticipation, and intelligence---made him a very formidable Heavyweight boxer.. Understand this---Wilt was FAR from the biggest or tallest man to ever play in the NBA.. Many were bigger, but most giants are TERRIBLE at NBA level basketball. They were pathetically ridiculous even.. And, as far as Boxing, even when Wilt tried to box very easy and not open up, big tall Heavyweights like Ernie Terrell had enough after a round or 2.. He said it was like going 15 rounds with anybody else, because of the sheer power and drive of Chamberlain's ordinary punches and combinations.. A ton of Chamberlain's training expense money would be going for sparring partners if Ali ever signed for fight Wilt.. It was not a welcome job.

Cus D'Amato warned Chamberlain that Ali was no dummy... and they would almost have to trick Ali into thinking he could win if they were to get the fight. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s

[keithmoonhangover]

But one of the greatest individual athletes who ever walked the face of the earth... A man who had the massive height, size, strength, speed, reflexes, and intelligence to convince one of the greatest trainers in the History of Boxing---a man who predicted both Floyd Patterson and Mike Tyson would be the youngest Heavyweight Champions in Fistic HIstory because he trained them both---that with 6 months of intense training he had the beating of Muhammad Ali. How many athletes in history, who never boxed professionally, could you put in a road show, promoting a fight with Muhammad Ali??? That is, besides Wilt Chamberlain. The only thing that prevented Chamberlain form crushing Ali was Ali refusing to sign the negotiated contract to fight him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s

I'd never heard this theory of yours before.

So, if I'm getting this right, Wilt Chamberlain the great basketball player and very very tall guy, could defeat Muhammad Ali in boxing match, had they actually gone through with fight that was being discussed back in the day?

You know, if you're right that's probably the very reason why Ali never signed to fight him. What do you think?

Do you currently live in Colorado or Washington?

Just curious.

I read a poll a while back that indicated that these are the two states where this belief is most prevalent.

I don't base my analysis off polls or popular opinion... Polls and popular opinion were almost unanimous that little Mike Tyson would be victorious over the much bigger 6'4" X 232 Buster Douglas, weren't they??? ... 20/20 hindsight told the story of that fight, not expert analysis.. Chamberlain was very interested in Boxing and HAD actually boxed.. He's the guy who challenged Ali, and he had good reason to.. It wasn't Ali who challenged Chamberlain -- but Wilt was so fast, athletic, and powerful no sparring partner could stay with him when he started to poke punches at them..

The same attributes that allowed Chamberlain to lead the NBA in scoring, rebounding, assists, minutes played, foul shots made in a game, and many other categories of play---his sheer size, strength, speed, balance, athleticism, vision, anticipation, and intelligence---made him a very formidable Heavyweight boxer.. Understand this---Wilt was FAR from the biggest or tallest man to ever play in the NBA.. Many were bigger, but most giants are TERRIBLE at NBA level basketball. They were pathetically ridiculous even.. And, as far as Boxing, even when Wilt tried to box very easy and not open up, big tall Heavyweights like Ernie Terrell had enough after a round or 2.. He said it was like going 15 rounds with anybody else, because of the sheer power and drive of Chamberlain's ordinary punches and combinations.. A ton of Chamberlain's training expense money would be going for sparring partners if Ali ever signed for fight Wilt.. It was not a welcome job.

Cus D'Amato warned Chamberlain that Ali was no dummy... and they would almost have to trick Ali into thinking he could win if they were to get the fight. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s

[Kalan]

God, you are a brainless fool

I wouldn't talk that way to God if I were you. Of course you might not believe in him either.