The Duran of the Hagler fight vs GGG/Toney/Hopkins/Jones

[ClivePatrickLyons]

You're an idiot if you think Golovkin is slow... He has very quick feet.. Fleet footed Welterweight, the 36-0 Kell Brook, had the ring quickly cut off on him by GGG... Kell was begging out of the fight before the 5th round... Duran was beaten by Lightweight Dejesus... Welterweight Leonard... Super Welterweight...Hearns... very slow Middleweight Rob Sims... slow Super Middleweight Vinny Panzienza -- and tons of other boxers in-between, some of whom were pretty damned bad .... GGG's record in World Title fights is 18-0 with 18 KO wins.. What's Duran's???

GGG IS NOT A FAST MIDDLEWEIGHT HE WOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED FAST EVEN IF HE WAS A CRUISERWEIGHT YOU ARE IN THE TOP 2 MOST DESEVED IMBERCILE'S I'V EVER HAD THE DISPLEASURE OF DEBATING A BOXING MATCH..........DURAN LEGEND HOF......GGG FUTURE HOF BUT WELL SHORT OF LEGEND STATUS HE NEEDS TO FORGET ABOUT CANELO AND MOVE UP AND EARN THAT LEGEND STATUS BEAT WARD/KOVALOV/DE GALE/STEVENSON.
EVEN A LOSS WILL HELP HIM CEMENT HIS LEGACY YOU GOOSE.

You're the nuttiest fruitcake who was ever left outside in the rain ClivePatrickLyons... There's no competition for your level of boundless stupidity.

GGG has extremely fast feet and cuts the fastest opponents off---and rips the living Hell out of them before they know what's happening... As I said, Duran was beaten by Lightweight Dejesus... Welterweight Leonard... Super Welterweight Hearns... The very slow Middleweight Robbie Sims... The super slow Super Middleweight Vinny Panzienza -- and tons of other boxers in-between, some of whom were pretty damned slow.. There wasn't a division Duran could hide in where he didn't get beaten.. Fast guys like Wilfred Benitez, Kirkland Laing, and Tommy Hearns ate Duran's lunch.. Leonard frustrated the slowpoke way too much.. Duran quit in the middle of the fight and went home to his mama.

Duran the lightweight his he the one we are talking about fighting the middleweight champ GGG that wouldn't be permitted unless the match was made in Adelaide Australia lightweight champ v middleweight champ YOUR THE MOST POPULAR MAN ON THIS SITE OR ARE YOU A WOMAN IF YOU ARE I'M SORRY FOR CALLING YOU A MAN

[DareTBG]

Your credibility has completely gone by describing this guy as a " fat, bloated, mess "


https://youtu.be/DaESioM03g4

That was at 154.

Here he is at 156 and a half


https://youtu.be/9nf-i-V6HGU

and here he is at 145 and a half

https://youtu.be/ugdPzhZSgKk


assuming you have a brain, you work out what the effect of putting on 9, and 11 lbs respectively will do to a guy who is only 5' 7" tall. He is far from either fat, or bloated.

As for your other statement about Golovkin's punch power being seriously over rated, that is naive at best, and moronic at worst.

It was a stupid comment from me. I worded it wrong. I meant Duran was a fat bloated mess between fights. Anyway my point was Duran was not in great condition for the Hearns fight and this didn't just come from Duran's mouth either. Everybody knows Duran could blow up between fights which resulted in him having to spend most of his camp losing weight which then resulted in him losing sharpness and strength in the ring. If Duran had trained the way he did for Montreal Hearns ain't sparking him like that.

As for my GGG comment. I never said his power was 'seriously' overrated. I do feel it's overrated though. Whats with the insults btw? That's my opinion you salty clown. If you're not happy with it then you can go take a big suck on my hairy plums.

Duran blew up between fights all of his career which is why he was kept busy by his management as a Lightweight. It was when the big money came in that he indulged his lifestyle. However that had nothing to do with him being unable to handle the speed of Tommy's punches from range. He simply couldn't get close enough to Hearns to do his own work on the inside.

If you are not happy with insults coming your way, don't start hurling them in the first place.

I know Duran always blew up between fights but sometimes he did so to ridiculous levels. Duran was apparently in one of the worst conditions he had been mentally and physically going into the Hearns fight. Stylistically Hearns is a nightmare for any version of Duran but I believe if Duran could've got himself into shape close to how he was in Montreal then he wouldn't have been put away like that. It's scary thinking what Duran could have done if he went through his career with Hopkins level dedication. The man carved himself into the history books as a top 10 ATG and he never took boxing that seriously.

Fair enough. Let's leave the insults out.

[keithmoonhangover]

Pure conjecture on your part.

The facts are Duran didn't get sparked until his 83rd fight by an ATG fighter 2 divisions above his natural fighting weight. Jones got sparked twice long before that by 2 guys that NO ONE would label as ATG fighters fighting in his own recognised division.

Huge difference.

Nonsense.

I'm sure you've posted under a different name.

What you " think " you are sure of is of no importance to me at all. Trying to avoid the topic is a typical response of the kind of person who knows very little about it.

Up until the Hearns fight Duran had been down twice, both times by Esteban De Jesus, once he lost the fight on points, and once he got up off the canvas to stop De Jesus later in the fight.This record of dropped but not stopped in 82 fights is because Duran had great DEFENSIVE SKILLS and was hard to hit cleanly.

Jones on the other hand getting dropped badly by Del Valle, and stopped by the calibre of fighters like Tarver and Johnson shows that he LACKED those same defensive skills that you wish to compare with the great Duran.

You simply don't seem to understand the difference between great skills and mere reflexes. One simply decreases over a period of time, the other disappears in an instant, and unfortunately for Jones he didn't have Ali's chin. So he became a punchbag, and a laughing stock to those who don't worship at his altar.

In any event the guy is simply unworthy of being compared to Roberto Duran.

My good man. Jones was well past his best once he stepped in the ring.

Secondly, if all Jones had was reflexes, then anyone with great reflexes could be an all time great boxer. Is that what you're saying?

[elmersalsa]

When the great Roberto Duran beat Iran Barkley for the WBC World Middleweight Title, I said to myself that this guy got to be one of the top 4 or 5 greatest boxers ever in my book. I mean, who can win at 37, being washed up, in a weight class way above your natural weight, and beating a guy in his prime that was taller, stronger, younger, in his weight class and probably faster and beat him? A guy that beat the great Thomas Hearns twice. Not to mention that it was a war. A real war. Duran in round 6, I believe, got hit with a wicked shot to the chin and he spun with that shot about 180 degrees and did not go down. Maybe he was determined not to go down. Maybe it was a miracle. But, it was the most courageous win of his extraordinary career. With that win, I don't care anybody says, he got to be a top 5 greatest boxer in my book. How can't he not?

[Keko]

Your choice.
Personally, I think the top 15 more realistic.

[elmersalsa]

Your choice.
Personally, I think the top 15 more realistic.

No way. At least top 10. But, opinions are opinions.

[Keko]

Your choice.
Personally, I think the top 15 more realistic.

No way. At least top 10. But, opinions are opinions.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I've seen a lot of these and generally is 10-15.

Definitely a top fighter, and this is most important.

I hope one day we'll have a topic to write lists.

[DareTBG]

Your choice.
Personally, I think the top 15 more realistic.

No way. At least top 10. But, opinions are opinions.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I've seen a lot of these and generally is 10-15.

Definitely a top fighter, and this is most important.

I hope one day we'll have a topic to write lists.

Nope, Duran is generally ranked in the top 10. Some have him top 5, most have him between 5-10.

[elmersalsa]

It was a stupid comment from me. I worded it wrong. I meant Duran was a fat bloated mess between fights. Anyway my point was Duran was not in great condition for the Hearns fight and this didn't just come from Duran's mouth either. Everybody knows Duran could blow up between fights which resulted in him having to spend most of his camp losing weight which then resulted in him losing sharpness and strength in the ring. If Duran had trained the way he did for Montreal Hearns ain't sparking him like that.

As for my GGG comment. I never said his power was 'seriously' overrated. I do feel it's overrated though. Whats with the insults btw? That's my opinion you salty clown. If you're not happy with it then you can go take a big suck on my hairy plums.

Duran blew up between fights all of his career which is why he was kept busy by his management as a Lightweight. It was when the big money came in that he indulged his lifestyle. However that had nothing to do with him being unable to handle the speed of Tommy's punches from range. He simply couldn't get close enough to Hearns to do his own work on the inside.

If you are not happy with insults coming your way, don't start hurling them in the first place.

I know Duran always blew up between fights but sometimes he did so to ridiculous levels. Duran was apparently in one of the worst conditions he had been mentally and physically going into the Hearns fight. Stylistically Hearns is a nightmare for any version of Duran but I believe if Duran could've got himself into shape close to how he was in Montreal then he wouldn't have been put away like that. It's scary thinking what Duran could have done if he went through his career with Hopkins level dedication. The man carved himself into the history books as a top 10 ATG and he never took boxing that seriously.

Fair enough. Let's leave the insults out.

Great points from both of you!

[elmersalsa]

Your choice.
Personally, I think the top 15 more realistic.

No way. At least top 10. But, opinions are opinions.

Didn't Ring magazine once do a sportswriters poll of the best p4p fighters of the previous 80 years, with Duran coming 3rd, behind Joe Louis and Ali?

The Ring in 2002 ranked The Hands of Stone at #5 of the list of the 80 Greatest Fighters of the Last 80 years: 1922-2002. I didn't agree in some spots. I believe that some fighters that should have been there, like the great Luis Manuel Rodriguez, Holman Williams, Fidel LaBarba and Georges Carpentier for example, should have been easily on that list. While guys like Oscar DeLahoya, Felix "Tito" Trinidad and Lennox Lewis were ranked in there. I don't consider Tito, Oscar nor Lewis as great fighters.

Duran was behind these:
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Joe Louis
5. Roberto Duran.

In my view, Duran should have been #3. I can't see Louis nor Ali better than he. No way!

[Kalan]

Duran the lightweight his he the one we are talking about fighting the middleweight champ GGG that wouldn't be permitted unless the match was made in Adelaide Australia

Are you bats???? Duran fought both Marv Hagler and Iran Barkley for the 160-pound Title -- Barkley was bigger than Hagler and also won the 175-pound Title from Hearns... So Golovkin would be allowed to maul and smash little Roberto -- although the little chub would probably say "NO MAS!!" before too long

[ClivePatrickLyons]

Duran the lightweight his he the one we are talking about fighting the middleweight champ GGG that wouldn't be permitted unless the match was made in Adelaide Australia

Are you bats???? Duran fought both Marv Hagler and Iran Barkley for the 160-pound Title -- Barkley was bigger than Hagler and also won the 175-pound Title from Hearns... So Golovkin would be allowed to maul and smash little Roberto -- although the little chub would probably say "NO MAS!!" before too long

Am I bats geeze if I am your BATMAN..........you always compare the version of your pick in a fantasy fight in the most favourable way and put his opponent down as low as you can get them before you hit us with the final result your pathetic like comparing a over the hill Sugar Ray Robinson with a prime Monzon that'll get your pick the win all the time you are so predictable GGG as not been in with any one that as the ability to test him and his resume is really thin when it comes to meeting top competition you are the idiot of all idiot's Kalan.....Duran as forgotten more about boxing then GGG could ever imagine ...when doing comparison's do it when both combatant's are at their best at that weight don't make it so one sided that it makes you look like a goose but then again that would be almost impossible for you Kalan

[Kalan]

Duran the lightweight his he the one we are talking about fighting the middleweight champ GGG that wouldn't be permitted unless the match was made in Adelaide Australia

Are you bats???? Duran fought both Marv Hagler and Iran Barkley for the 160-pound Title -- Barkley was bigger than Hagler and also won the 175-pound Title from Hearns... So Golovkin would be allowed to maul and smash little Roberto -- although the little chub would probably say "NO MAS!!" before too long

Am I bats geeze if I am your BATMAN..........you always compare the version of your pick in a fantasy fight in the most favourable way and put his opponent down as low as you can get them before you hit us with the final result your pathetic like comparing a over the hill Sugar Ray Robinson with a prime Monzon that'll get your pick the win all the time you are so predictable GGG as not been in with any one that as the ability to test him and his resume is really thin when it comes to meeting top competition you are the idiot of all idiot's Kalan.....Duran as forgotten more about boxing then GGG could ever imagine ...when doing comparison's do it when both combatant's are at their best at that weight don't make it so one sided that it makes you look like a goose but then again that would be almost impossible for you

Oh shut your sucker you stupid fking jaggoff.. Now you think I'm a Super Hero who fights crime, somebody lobotomized you at birth.. Duran forgot so much about Boxing that He quit cold in the middle of a fight - he was frustrated at not being able to land punches - and he lost to Kirkland Laing and Robbie Sims... You have to have forgotten a lot about Boxing to accomplish those kind of losses.

GGG never forgot a thing and is 36-0 with 33 KO wins...a mark Duran never achieved -- and 36-0 Kell Brook, who entered the ring at 175 which was heavier than Golovkin, would beat the ass off Duran.. Duran lost, and got knocked on his ass a couple times by the less than big and powerful Lightweight, Estaban De Jeusus... And Brook would smash De Jesus as well.. Guys like Martinez, Chavez, Saunders, Jacobs, Quillin, Cotto, Canelo and other big name Middleweights ran their ass off from a GGG fight.. Golovkin's resume would be right up there if those duckers didn't know for sure that Golovkin would knock them out. Nobody feared pudgy little Duran like that. A lot of 2nd rate people beat his ass.

[Tomasino]

Are you bats???? Duran fought both Marv Hagler and Iran Barkley for the 160-pound Title -- Barkley was bigger than Hagler and also won the 175-pound Title from Hearns... So Golovkin would be allowed to maul and smash little Roberto -- although the little chub would probably say "NO MAS!!" before too long

Am I bats geeze if I am your BATMAN..........you always compare the version of your pick in a fantasy fight in the most favourable way and put his opponent down as low as you can get them before you hit us with the final result your pathetic like comparing a over the hill Sugar Ray Robinson with a prime Monzon that'll get your pick the win all the time you are so predictable GGG as not been in with any one that as the ability to test him and his resume is really thin when it comes to meeting top competition you are the idiot of all idiot's Kalan.....Duran as forgotten more about boxing then GGG could ever imagine ...when doing comparison's do it when both combatant's are at their best at that weight don't make it so one sided that it makes you look like a goose but then again that would be almost impossible for you

Oh shut your sucker you stupid fking jaggoff.. Now you think I'm a Super Hero who fights crime, somebody lobotomized you at birth.. Duran forgot so much about Boxing that He quit cold in the middle of a fight - he was frustrated at not being able to land punches - and he lost to Kirkland Laing and Robbie Sims... You have to have forgotten a lot about Boxing to accomplish those kind of losses.

GGG never forgot a thing and is 36-0 with 33 KO wins...a mark Duran never achieved -- and 36-0 Kell Brook, who entered the ring at 175 which was heavier than Golovkin, would beat the ass off Duran.. Duran lost, and got knocked on his ass a couple times by the less than big and powerful Lightweight, Estaban De Jeusus... And Brook would smash De Jesus as well.. Guys like Martinez, Chavez, Saunders, Jacobs, Quillin, Cotto, Canelo and other big name Middleweights ran their ass off from a GGG fight.. Golovkin's resume would be right up there if those duckers didn't know for sure that Golovkin would knock them out. Nobody feared pudgy little Duran like that. A lot of 2nd rate people beat his ass.

Even Brook would be laughing at your prediction he'd beat Duran.

[Kalan]

The only thing Brook would be laughing at is a stupid fk face like you... Brook had never lost and was confident he'd beat Golovkin... Little buggers who decked Duran more than once and beat him---such as Lightweight Estaban De Jesus---would pose no problems for the bigger, stronger Brook.

[elmersalsa]

The only thing Brook would be laughing at is a stupid fk face like you... Brook had never lost and was confident he'd beat Golovkin... Little buggers who decked Duran more than once and beat him---such as Lightweight Estaban De Jesus---would pose no problems for the bigger, stronger Brook.

The ONLY WAY that Brook beats the Hands of Stone is Duran being sleeping with 10 women and drank and party like an animal the night before.

[elmersalsa]

Duran the lightweight his he the one we are talking about fighting the middleweight champ GGG that wouldn't be permitted unless the match was made in Adelaide Australia

Are you bats???? Duran fought both Marv Hagler and Iran Barkley for the 160-pound Title -- Barkley was bigger than Hagler and also won the 175-pound Title from Hearns... So Golovkin would be allowed to maul and smash little Roberto -- although the little chub would probably say "NO MAS!!" before too long

And Wilt Chamberlain beats the great Muhammad Ali in only 6 months of training. LOL!

[Keko]

No way. At least top 10. But, opinions are opinions.

Didn't Ring magazine once do a sportswriters poll of the best p4p fighters of the previous 80 years, with Duran coming 3rd, behind Joe Louis and Ali?

The Ring in 2002 ranked The Hands of Stone at #5 of the list of the 80 Greatest Fighters of the Last 80 years: 1922-2002. I didn't agree in some spots. I believe that some fighters that should have been there, like the great Luis Manuel Rodriguez, Holman Williams, Fidel LaBarba and Georges Carpentier for example, should have been easily on that list. While guys like Oscar DeLahoya, Felix "Tito" Trinidad and Lennox Lewis were ranked in there. I don't consider Tito, Oscar nor Lewis as great fighters.

Duran was behind these:
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Joe Louis
5. Roberto Duran.

In my view, Duran should have been #3. I can't see Louis nor Ali better than he. No way!

No way top 5 Greb,Langford,Leonard Benny,Louis,Ali,Walker.
Sugar,Armstrong,Pep sure top 3.
He was excellent and there is no doubt but that's a lot of competition defeat. I respect him but I see it 10-15

[DareTBG]

The only thing Brook would be laughing at is a stupid fk face like you... Brook had never lost and was confident he'd beat Golovkin... Little buggers who decked Duran more than once and beat him---such as Lightweight Estaban De Jesus---would pose no problems for the bigger, stronger Brook.

The ONLY WAY that Brook beats the Hands of Stone is Duran being sleeping with 10 women and drank and party like an animal the night before.

Even party ridden Duran would beat Brook. He could walk into the ring with a traffic cone on his head and a dido up his ass and still beat Brook.

[elmersalsa]

Didn't Ring magazine once do a sportswriters poll of the best p4p fighters of the previous 80 years, with Duran coming 3rd, behind Joe Louis and Ali?

The Ring in 2002 ranked The Hands of Stone at #5 of the list of the 80 Greatest Fighters of the Last 80 years: 1922-2002. I didn't agree in some spots. I believe that some fighters that should have been there, like the great Luis Manuel Rodriguez, Holman Williams, Fidel LaBarba and Georges Carpentier for example, should have been easily on that list. While guys like Oscar DeLahoya, Felix "Tito" Trinidad and Lennox Lewis were ranked in there. I don't consider Tito, Oscar nor Lewis as great fighters.

Duran was behind these:
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Joe Louis
5. Roberto Duran.

In my view, Duran should have been #3. I can't see Louis nor Ali better than he. No way!

No way top 5 Greb,Langford,Leonard Benny,Louis,Ali,Walker.
Sugar,Armstrong,Pep sure top 3.
He was excellent and there is no doubt but that's a lot of competition defeat. I respect him but I see it 10-15

Which is your top 5?

[Keko]

The Ring in 2002 ranked The Hands of Stone at #5 of the list of the 80 Greatest Fighters of the Last 80 years: 1922-2002. I didn't agree in some spots. I believe that some fighters that should have been there, like the great Luis Manuel Rodriguez, Holman Williams, Fidel LaBarba and Georges Carpentier for example, should have been easily on that list. While guys like Oscar DeLahoya, Felix "Tito" Trinidad and Lennox Lewis were ranked in there. I don't consider Tito, Oscar nor Lewis as great fighters.

Duran was behind these:
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Joe Louis
5. Roberto Duran.

In my view, Duran should have been #3. I can't see Louis nor Ali better than he. No way!

No way top 5 Greb,Langford,Leonard Benny,Louis,Ali,Walker.
Sugar,Armstrong,Pep sure top 3.
He was excellent and there is no doubt but that's a lot of competition defeat. I respect him but I see it 10-15

Which is your top 5?

My 5

1.Sugar Ray Robinson
2.Henry Armstrong
3.Willie Pep
4.Harry Greb
5.Muhammad Ali

[elmersalsa]

No way top 5 Greb,Langford,Leonard Benny,Louis,Ali,Walker.
Sugar,Armstrong,Pep sure top 3.
He was excellent and there is no doubt but that's a lot of competition defeat. I respect him but I see it 10-15

Which is your top 5?

My 5

1.Sugar Ray Robinson
2.Henry Armstrong
3.Willie Pep
4.Harry Greb
5.Muhammad Ali

That seems reasonable.
Mine:
1. Henry Armstrong
2. Sugar Ray Robinson
3. Sam Langford
4. Roberto Duran
5. Willie Pep

My Mount Rushmore of Boxing:
Ali, Armstrong, Duran and Robinson

[Keko]

Which is your top 5?

My 5

1.Sugar Ray Robinson
2.Henry Armstrong
3.Willie Pep
4.Harry Greb
5.Muhammad Ali

That seems reasonable.
Mine:
1. Henry Armstrong
2. Sugar Ray Robinson
3. Sam Langford
4. Roberto Duran
5. Willie Pep

My Mount Rushmore of Boxing:
Ali, Armstrong, Duran and Robinson

I respect your opinion and they were all great boxers, for each of them that we have on the list of arguments why it is on the list.

[BoxBuzz]

So who exactly has Golovkin beaten that should impress the hell out of me ?

GGG can only fight guys brave enough to enter the ring with him... Sanders... Jacobs... Canelo... Eubank... Peter... Cotto... Martinez... Mayweather etc. all ducked him up until now... Kell Brook was a 36-0 Welterweight Champion who's a great boxer-puncher, and makes a good sized Middleweight... GGG got rid of him in 5... In contrast, smaller Welterweights: Carmen Basilio, Ray Leonard, and Emile Griffith---who each had plenty of losses---beat ATG Middleweights: Sugar Ray Robinson, Marvin Hagler, and Dick Tiger.

Just as an aside/ Prime Monzon would enjoy the competition, fight a perfectly paced fight, overpower, out think and use his height and reach and accuracy to beat him in 12 or 15, and he'd be ready for a rematch at GGG's request.

Two great game fighters, one is markedly better, and neither would back down from the challenge.

[Kalan]

I have to agree. I could never place a Heavyweight above him for patently obvious reasons. In the MAIN they are ( and have always been ) slow, cumbersome, predictable, and fairly limited as far as skill is concerned.

Personally I would NEVER rank a Heavyweight in ANY top 25 ATG's. I would fully accept SRR, and Henry Armstrong being rated above Duran ( though I might not agree with it ) but a Heavyweight? No ferkin chance.

The above is ridiculous stereotyping and broad brushing Heavyweights... Heavyweights are no more predictable than any other weight, and if they're slow, cumbersome, predictable, and unskilled they're not ATG's whatever division they're in... Jack Johnson, Gene Tunney, Joe Louis, Larry Holmes, Lennox Lewis, the Klitschko Bros, David Haye, and Anthony Joshua don't fit your stereotype... None of them charged in face first, fouling, pushing, shoving, and head butting the Hell out of scores of cherry-picked opponents like Henry Armstrong did -- and none of then lost 21 times like Armstrong.

I like Salvador Sanchez.. Gene Tunney.. Floyd Mayweather.. Wille Pep.. and Eder Jofre for my top 5... AJ would surely crush Tunney, but it's a P4P list

Today I like Vasyl Lomachenko, Gennady Golovkin, Terence Crawford, Sergei Kovalev, and Anthony Joshua