"Baby"Joe Mesi- How good was he ?

[Caractacus]

I thought that he was pretty good (pretty darn good) and very well could have become the Heavyweight Champion of the World/
what do you think ?

[Kalan]

He wouldn't have... Jirov beat him up bad and really hurt him really bad... Mesi wasn't really for that caliber of fighter -- nor was he ready for Monte Barrett... They both beat Mesi up and if those had been 12-round fights Mesi would have quit or been knocked out cold... He barely made 10 rounds.

[gilgamesh]

If He had knocked out that rabbit punching Russian boxer in the first round and continued on his path to the
Heavyweight Championship of the World ?

He would've been derailed somewhere along the way by somebody else. Mesi wasn't a Championship level guy. Even in the era of cracker jack box titles. John Ruiz, Chris Byrd, Lamon Brewster, Vitali, Oleg Maskaev, Samuel Peter, Wladimir, Hasim Rahman...any of those guys that were titleholders while Mesi was climbing the ladder would've kicked his ass.

But hell it's a moot point. As we saw. It didn't even take this level of talent to derail him. A former Cruiserweight who had seen his better days did him in.

[Caractacus]

Joe Mesi would have been the (undisputed) Heavyweight Champion of the World had he been able to continue IMOP).
(and how can you go wrong with a champ named "Joe" anyway ?)

[Caractacus]

which would you say were Joe Mesi's best ring tests ?

[Kalan]

Barrett and Jirov were tests, and he didn't pass them... Joe went from doing poorly versus those 2 fringe contenders -- to fighting guys below bum status.

[Keko]

With Jirov was a great fight and control the majority of the fight but the last two rounds was the despair of him. Closely it is received then 94-93 on all three judges. Definitely a tough fight for both

[sweetviolenturge]

I think it's highly unfair to say that he failed his tests on his way up the ladder because it's simply not true.
Yes, his bout with the underrated Monte Barrett was a very tough, close fight in which both men hit the canvas. It could have gone either way, but the judges saw it Mesi's way. Which I have no argument with. And let's not forget that he also blasted out the very dangerous, skilled puncher Davarryl Williamson, who just a short while later dropped Wlad Klitschko in a tough fight that saw him drop a close split nod ( albeit, a technical one that only went five rounds due to injury ).
And, Joe was well ahead of the very rugged, hard hitting, hard nosed Jirov for the majority of their bout until he was hurt & injured by a series of illegal blows late in the contest. Resulting in the brain bleed that for the most part, put a premature end to his career.
While it's true that had he remained healthy, that he'd have been a very big underdog vs the champion Lennox Lewis, I think he could have done very well against most of the other heavies of that period such as Rahman ( whom he beat as an amateur ), Michael Grant, Maskaev, Savarese, Brewster etc..
The Klitschko bros. would have been all wrong for him, as would have Corrie Sanders, but he's have been competitive with everyone else IMHO.

[Kalan]

You're not really viewing Mesi's fights with Barrett and Jirov objectively...

If you're a good Heavyweight you blow those 2 cherry-picks away.. Those should have been 12-round fights, not 10 rounds, but Mesi was being protected.. Halfway through those fights Mesi was losing steam...he had no idea what he was doing -- Barrett started to beat him up late in the fight and Mesi looked like a clueless deer in the headlights.. Jirov was knocked out by 40-year-old fatboy Michael Moorer, and was beaten very easily by James Toney in a cruiserweight fight.. Jirov didn't beat Mesi with illegal blows.. If you try to duck right hands, and catch them behind the ear those are legal.. Jirov was coming hard and he would have stopped Mesi if it were a 12-rounder.

[Keko]

Against Jirov it look better and it was so crowded but the last two rounds was desperate. He got by me 6 maybe 7 rounds.
This match I saw it three times and in my opinion the decision is not problematic.
I have to admit that the game against Monte badly remember and I'll see him again soon.
Mesi was a solid boxer but realistically did not come to the highest level opponents and I think it would not be passed.

[Caractacus]

Anyone know what Joe Mesi's amateur record was and who in the amateurs that he fought also became a contender later on ?

[Chuck1052]

"Baby" Joe Mesi had the ability to be no more than a fringe contender or a journeyman.

- Chuck Johnston

[Bodyshot3]

To be fair to Joe... Jirov was a hard, hungry fighter with big fights on his resume and was still capable of being a right handful up at heavyweight.

I am pretty sure that most fighters did not crack a smile when they got the call to go in with a southpaw who could crack a bit and with Jirov's never-say-die commitment, energy and physicality. Most of the smart ones probably went straight down to the gym or out for a run!

So having a 'night' against Jirov is not a disgrace or proof that a HW could not really cut it.

But I always thought Mesi - whilst certainly decent - ultimately ticked the right marketing boxes with his boxing style and background.

Fairly certain that we got his fight with Izon over here and I was not that sold because David was only ok and it looked a bit too difficult for Joe against someone who had been cracked far earlier by other contenders.

[Caractacus]

"Baby" Joe Mesi had the ability to be no more than a fringe contender or a journeyman.

- Chuck Johnston

"Baby" Joe Mesi could have been one of the all-time GREATS


- Caractacus-

[Caractacus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5T-KHyRJHE

[DaveyMac]

Joe Mesi was one of those guys, he was never as good as his supporters thought, but never as bad as his detractors thought :)

[Kalan]

Mesi was even worse than his detractors thought... Maybe you didn't see the Barrett and Jirov fights... I don't care what the judges said, he lost those.

Mesi needed a stance... a jab... a defense... much better footwork and balance... and much betting timing from range... He needed to keep his head back better... and he needed better proficiency throwing more combinations.. He had a strong left hook, a fair right hand, and decent reflexes, but he was an 8-round fighter fighting 10-round fights vs those 2 fringers ... Where he was with his game, if he fought the best Heavyweights they would have murdered him.

[gilgamesh]

Mesi was even worse than his detractors thought... Maybe you didn't see the Barrett and Jirov fights... I don't care what the judges said, he lost those.

Mesi needed a stance... a jab... a defense... much better footwork and balance... and much betting timing from range... He needed to keep his head back better... and he needed better proficiency throwing more combinations.. He had a strong left hook, a fair right hand, and decent reflexes, but he was an 8-round fighter fighting 10-round fights vs those 2 fringers ... Where he was with his game, if he fought the best Heavyweights they would have murdered him.

All 3 judges had him beating Jirov by 1 point on all cards. I don't see how there was any other way you could've scored it frankly. Jirov definitely did WAY more damage to Mesi in the fight, but I don't think there's any way you could say Jirov won any of the rounds in rounds 2 thru 8.

Jirov took the 1st, the 9th and the 10th. Scoring 3 knockdowns in those last 2 rounds respectively, but it wasn't enough to make up the deficit he had made for himself all throughout the fight. In the grand scheme of things though considering Jirov basically ended Mesi's career that night it's definitely fair to say he got the better of it in spite of having the loss on his record.

I don't remember how I scored the Barrett fight, but that was the first sign of trouble for Mesi definitely.

[Kalan]

Okay..I can see that score.. I gave Jirov 1 other round in there somewhere, I think the 3rd.. Mesi was winning it on rounds -- but the whole idea of the 10-point must system instead of the old rounds scoring system was to give the boxer who does the most damage the victory instead of the guy who won the most rounds.. So the judge gives 10 points to the winner of the round and 9 points or LESS to the loser of a round.. Many lazy judges tend to forget about the word LESS and we're practically back to a rounds scoring system..

You can win a basketball game by 5 points in each of the first 3 quarters and have a seemingly comfortable 15-point lead heading into the 4th quarter.. The other team can catch fire and hammer you by 20-points in the final quarter.. Jirov not only scored 2 knockdowns in the 10th, giving him a 10-7 round, but he hammered the Hell out of him for most of the rest of the round so does Mesi deserve 7-points??? Not if you want the point system to work, and the boxer who inflicts more big, damaging punches in the fight to win.. I'm not complaining about the Mesi 1-point win -- but for me, Jirov won it.

[sweetviolenturge]

Anyone know what Joe Mesi's amateur record was and who in the amateurs that he fought also became a contender later on ?

Being a Buffalo native who was very involved in the pro game at the time of Joe's amateur career, I'm not all that familiar with his line by line, opponent by opponent record in the Simon Pure ranks, but I did work a couple of local amateur shows in the early '90s at Buffalo Raceway ( for the late great Jackie Donnelly & Ed Cudney ) that Joe's brother Tom fought on as well as ( I believe ) Joe's initial amateur bout.
After that, sadly, the local amateur scene went into a slump & Joe wound up fighting the bulk of the rest of his amateur career on the road in Rochester, Syracuse, Albany etc & out of state in the bigger tourneys.
As I stated earlier in this thread, I know he fought Hasim Rahman, Lawrance Clay-Bey & other "names opponents" while coming up.

Peace.
- Jim

[sweetviolenturge]

Mesi was even worse than his detractors thought... Maybe you didn't see the Barrett and Jirov fights... I don't care what the judges said, he lost those.

Mesi needed a stance... a jab... a defense... much better footwork and balance... and much betting timing from range... He needed to keep his head back better... and he needed better proficiency throwing more combinations.. He had a strong left hook, a fair right hand, and decent reflexes, but he was an 8-round fighter fighting 10-round fights vs those 2 fringers ... Where he was with his game, if he fought the best Heavyweights they would have murdered him.

Actually, I scored the Barrett fight for Barrett 95-94. I too thought that he edged it, but with both men going down & it being so tight, I didn't begrudge Mesi the win.
As for the Jirov fight, I had it 94-93 or 7-3 in rounds for Mesi.

Peace.
- Jim

[Kalan]

If they were 12-round fights Barrett and Jirov were certain to win... They SHOULD have been 12-rounders... Mesi ran out of ideas quickly and was anything but a 12-round fighter after 30 fights... That's why I point to his game -- after 30 fights and 10 years of pro experience it needs be more rounded out