The MIDDLEWEIGHT game: *CLOSED*

[Crease]

If you don't rate boxers on who they would beat -- what would you rate them on???

For the purposes of these examples, let's use "Boxer A" just to keep it generic and not to confuse people who might be skipping through the thread.

1. Who Boxer A actually fought in his career and result of those fights.
2. Did he reach the top of the tree and become World Champion?
3. Did he fight the best opposition available to him in his own time - if not - just how good were his opponents?
4. How long did he fight for and how successful was he?
5. Could there have been a time, somewhere throughout his career that he would have been recognized as The Number One of a division?

[Crease]

As things stand, we are now 18 days in and despite heated debates on this thread, our scoreboard still looks like;

1st - 182 pts Harry Greb
2nd - 165 pts Carlos Monzon
3rd - 155 pts Sugar Ray Robinson
4th - 153 pts Marvin Hagler
5th - 93 pts Stanley Ketchel
6th - 57 pts Bernard Hopkins
7th - 56 pts Mickey Walker
8th - 45 pts Bob Fitzsimmons
9th - 31 pts Sam Langford
10th- 26 pts Charley Burley

11th - 25 pts Roy Jones Jr
12th -22 pts Jake La Motta
13th - 21 pts Tiger Flowers
14th - 18 pts Dick Tiger
14th - 18 pts Gennady Golovkin
16th - 15 pts Mike Gibbons
Tied 17th - 12 pts James Toney
Tied 17th - 12 pts Nino Benvenuti
Tied 17th - 12 pts Tommy Ryan
20th - 9 pts Freddie Steele

Tied 21 th - 8 pts Tony Zale
Tied 21th - 8 pts Marcel Cerdan
23th - 7 pts Holman Williams
Tied 24rd - 3 pts Kid McCoy
Tied 24rd - 3 pts Nonpareil Jack Dempsey
Tied 24rd - 3 pts Billy Papke
Tied 27th - 1 pts Mike McCallum
Tied 27th - 1 pts Gene Fullmer
Tied 27th - 1 pts Mike O'Dowd

[Tomasino]

If you don't rate boxers on who they would beat -- what would you rate them on???

For the purposes of these examples, let's use "Boxer A" just to keep it generic and not to confuse people who might be skipping through the thread.

1. Who Boxer A actually fought in his career and result of those fights.
2. Did he reach the top of the tree and become World Champion?
3. Did he fight the best opposition available to him in his own time - if not - just how good were his opponents?
4. How long did he fight for and how successful was he?
5. Could there have been a time, somewhere throughout his career that he would have been recognized as The Number One of a division?

I'd add to this as a caveat; did they receive their just dues in their time or were they treated unfairly? If unfairly treated then ignore lack of world title and focus on wins and quality of opposition. Some guys had it tough!

[Crease]

I'd add to this as a caveat; did they receive their just dues in their time or were they treated unfairly? If so ignore lack of world title.

Yeah, that too. It does happen. Thanks for the addition, Mr Tomasino - you are just right.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Having a title means less to me than whom I think would win a mythical fight.

[Tomasino]

I'll get that one then.

I was going to get one on Greb plus:
the killings of Stanley Ketchel, by James Carlos Blake
Unforgivable Blackness: The Rise and Fall of Jack Johnson, by Geoffrey Ward
Sam Langford: Boxing's Greatest Uncrowned Champion by Clay Moyle.
Charley Burley and the Black Murderers' Row by Harry Otty

Anyone read these? Are there any better for these fighter?

I've read them all, Clay Moyles books one of my favourites

They were sitting in my Amazon basket.
Your nod was all I needed to confirm the order.
I'll report back with my thoughts

Anyway, we can let this thread get back on topic now

Enjoy the reading Davie Burley books good too. Man got a raw deal.

[BoxBuzz]

If you are the proud owner of the (WBB) Wheaties Boxing Belt, My guess is you have a solid shot against anyone who ever stepped in the ring. Including the Stilt.

[davie]

I've read them all, Clay Moyles books one of my favourites

They were sitting in my Amazon basket.
Your nod was all I needed to confirm the order.
I'll report back with my thoughts

Anyway, we can let this thread get back on topic now

Enjoy the reading Davie Burley books good too. Man got a raw deal.

A couple arrived the other day, so I started the Langford one last night. Good reading so far. He seemed like a fairly humble genuine character, no shortage of quotes highlighting his own short comings. Rare for a great fighter.
I'll find an old boxing books thread and fire a review on for each as I finish them

[Tomasino]

They were sitting in my Amazon basket.
Your nod was all I needed to confirm the order.
I'll report back with my thoughts

Anyway, we can let this thread get back on topic now

Enjoy the reading Davie Burley books good too. Man got a raw deal.

A couple arrived the other day, so I started the Langford one last night. Good reading so far. He seemed like a fairly humble genuine character, no shortage of quotes highlighting his own short comings. Rare for a great fighter.
I'll find an old boxing books thread and fire a review on for each as I finish them

Good man. Sams one of my favourites. Shows his inate level of skill that he gave a very tired Gans a battle when still a novice pro.

[Kalan]

If you are the proud owner of the (WBB) Wheaties Boxing Belt, My guess is you have a solid shot against anyone who ever stepped in the ring. Including the Stilt.

My guess is you've had a few belts of 90 proof before you composed this post... some really solid shots right down the snoot.

[BoxBuzz]

If you are the proud owner of the (WBB) Wheaties Boxing Belt, My guess is you have a solid shot against anyone who ever stepped in the ring. Including the Stilt.

My guess is you've had a few belts of 90 proof before you composed this post... some really solid shots right down the snoot.

Simmer down now Kaitlyn, don't go all prohibitionist on us. I imagine you've sent more than a few folks reaching for the bottle in your day.

[Kalan]

No BuzzBox I'm not a teetotaler... and I don't carry around the souse gene and sprinkle it generously on folks like you... I try to bring sanity, thoughtfulness, tolerance, and precision to a world of Trump voters... It's an uphill battle.

[BoxBuzz]

.. I try to bring sanity, thoughtfulness, tolerance, and precision. It's an uphill battle.

SensIble goals. I'll keep you posted if I see any measurable progress!

[keithmoonhangover]

.. I try to bring sanity, thoughtfulness, tolerance, and precision. It's an uphill battle.

SensIble goals. I'll keep you posted if I see any measurable progress!

[Kalan]

.. I try to bring sanity, thoughtfulness, tolerance, and precision. It's an uphill battle.

SensIble goals. I'll keep you posted if I see any measurable progress!

In this Trump voting nation as a whole???? ... You won't see that soon...unless Keithmoonhangover moves to Canada. Then the average IQ of Americans will improve

[keithmoonhangover]

.. I try to bring sanity, thoughtfulness, tolerance, and precision. It's an uphill battle.

SensIble goals. I'll keep you posted if I see any measurable progress!

In this Trump voting nation as a whole???? ... You won't see that soon...unless Keithmoonhangover moves to Canada. Then the average IQ of Americans will improve

Well, as I live in England, it's unlikely.

[Ezzard]

The top 5 is my top 5.

Biggest issue I have are the rankings of Jones and Golovkin.

Golovkin is clearly a fantastic boxer but he needs more meat on his resume to get on the list.

[Crease]

9 days to go...

[davie]

9 days to go...

Aye, the guys that said a month is too long were right

[Keko]

9 days to go...

Aye, the guys that said a month is too long were right

[davie]

11 days and 3 pages since the last list was contributed.

Since then we've talked about what books we're going to read and Wilt fvcking Chamberlain, not to mention disputing the merits of some top middleweights.

But we could have wrapped up the list before we reached the end of the second week

[Keko]

I agree that two weeks ok.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Yeah, 2 weeks and include the jr classes would be my vote. Not being able to give hearns a single vote may kill me!

[Crease]

11 days and 3 pages since the last list was contributed.
But we could have wrapped up the list before we reached the end of the second week

The last list for the Heavyweights was something like the 30th.
And the last list of Light Heavies was the 26th.
So people do come in & vote later on in the month.

[Kalan]

SensIble goals. I'll keep you posted if I see any measurable progress!

In this Trump voting nation as a whole???? ... You won't see that soon...unless Keithmoonhangover moves to Canada. Then the average IQ of Americans will improve

Well, as I live in England, it's unlikely.

Good... Don't immigrate to American because you'll drag the average IQ down and improve the average Brit's.