Jersey Joe Walcott vs Hasim Rahman

[Keko]

Walcott really had no management early in his career. that is when most of defeats came.

Had he fought in Rahman's situation he would have started out 20-0 like all the prospects now do. If Rahman would have been in Walcott's era without management he would have had a ton of losses.
Many modern fans don't seem to grasp this.

Most of the other losses came against people like Charles, Louis, and Marciano. He went 2-6 against those three. He almost beat Marciano the first time and should have got the decision against Louis the first time. Easily could have been 4-4. Rahman probably goes 0-8.

Walcott was much faster in both foot and hand speed, and was stronger.
Walcott was not perfect, but near his best he wins this easily.

Everything written is true.
Some mention of his defeat and that there's a lot or a lot of ways boxer who have a lot of defeats but they considered excellent (Duran, Ezzard, SRR, Langford)

[Tomasino]

That's why Walcott was knocked out and beaten so many times, right???? ... Beaten by Light Heavyweights and people with losing records who you never heard of like the famous Johnny Allen.. Walcott was wide open and chinny. He was pretty damned hittable for a top ranked fighter.. Rahman had his problems, and that's why he lost so many fights -- but Walcott lost twice as many.

Idiot.

[Kalan]

Tomasino... shut your ugly, stupid, ignorant face, because you have no argument you pathetic little twerp.

Walcott was knocked out by such lowly swingers as light heavyweight Jack Fox and turtle slow Abe Simon... He was beaten by guys you never heard of who had losing records such as Johnny Allen... Except for his last fight when he was 42 years old, Rahman only lost to World Champions and big name Heavyweights.

[Tomasino]

Tomasino... shut your ugly, stupid, ignorant face, because you have no argument you pathetic little twerp.

Walcott was knocked out by such lowly swingers as light heavyweight Jack Fox and turtle slow Abe Simon... He was beaten by guys you never heard of who had losing records such as Johnny Allen... Except for his last fight when he was 42 years old, Rahman only lost to World Champions and big name Heavyweights.

Your opinions are so uninformed as to be ludicrous. You are a simple idiot.

[Kalan]

Coming from the fingers of a brainless imbecile like you -- that's like an uneducated redneck calling Obama an idiot.

Rahman KO'd Lewis.. What big, tall, skilled, ATG Heavyweight did Walcott ever flatten with a shot??? Walcott lost a ton of fights.. Rahman had a better jab and straight right, and was a much bigger and stronger man. A simpleton like you can't understand basic facts. Walcott had twice as many defeats and won the title when the Heavyweight Division was at it's lowest ebb ever,

[jbizzle20]

I'm gonna have to admit that Kalan is right on this one. Walcott was not dominant enough as a boxer to overcome his physical disadvantages against a guy like Rahman. Rahman had a nearly 30 lbs weight advantage, 2 in height advantage, and 8 in reach advantage on Walcott. The only time Walcott stepped into the ring against a guy close to Rahman's physical stature was Abe Simon and Walcott got KTFO. Rahman was a 2 time champ who had a solid jab, so he was not a scrub. All he has to do is land one or two big power shots and it's lights out for Jersey Joe. People are way too biased in favor of the old timers here.

[Tomasino]

I'm gonna have to admit that Kalan is right on this one. Walcott was not dominant enough as a boxer to overcome his physical disadvantages against a guy like Rahman. Rahman had a nearly 30 lbs weight advantage, 2 in height advantage, and 8 in reach advantage on Walcott. The only time Walcott stepped into the ring against a guy close to Rahman's physical stature was Abe Simon and Walcott got KTFO. Rahman was a 2 time champ who had a solid jab, so he was not a scrub. All he has to do is land one or two big power shots and it's lights out for Jersey Joe. People are way too biased in favor of the old timers here.

So a guy who can outbox the greatest heavyweight of all time gets knocked out by Rahman? fornicate me

[Keko]

Walcot from the match with Lous 1 to sweeping Rahman

[Ambling Alp II]

Tomasino... shut your ugly, stupid, ignorant face, because you have no argument you pathetic little twerp.

Walcott was knocked out by such lowly swingers as light heavyweight Jack Fox and turtle slow Abe Simon... He was beaten by guys you never heard of who had losing records such as Johnny Allen... Except for his last fight when he was 42 years old, Rahman only lost to World Champions and big name Heavyweights.

Your opinions are so uninformed as to be ludicrous. You are a simple idiot.

He doesn't know what he doesn't know.
Some people don't know anything about old-timers and use modern days numbers, which of course almost always favor modern day fighters.

They think pretty win/loss records, titles, title defenses etc. are important when they usually mean next to nothing anymore.
Rahman weighed more, so that is supposed to be an advantage. Take a good look at the two. Who is the physically stronger man of the two?
Who is faster on his feet? Who had better hand speed? Outside of one punch against Lennox Lewis, who had better power?

They don't know the back stories either. Walcott had literally no management in the first several years of his career. He lost several fights against people that he would have beaten later on. Dan Florio took over his career and he became a totally different fighter.

[BoxBuzz]

In total seriousness, my takeaway from Kalan's reasoning....(and I don't see it as crazy, just unusual) is that he factors size, and height more so than many of us.) Rahman did beat Lewis, and that says quite a bit, and he's a big hombre.

Now he'll get up in my grill for saying this by countering with a skill discussion....and I don't mind that.

But when you take the entirety of his opinion/s into consideration, he does give MUCH consideration to size itself. (Tua vs Frazier, Walcott vs Rahman etc....oh yeah and Wilt vs Ali).

So there's method to the madness. And Kalan, I'm not saying you DON"T consider skill, you obviously do, but in my opinion, you give a lot of credit to the pounds and inches.

Which isn't insane, since that's the basis of the divisions to begin with.

But it's controversial obviously.

[BoxBuzz]

Tomasino... shut your ugly, stupid, ignorant face, because you have no argument you pathetic little twerp.

OK, hold it right there.....
I take umbrage to this.

First of all, we don't know what Tomasino looks like, he could be the dashing sort for all anyone here knows. So this is conjecture at best. Secondly, pathetic is a judgment, and twerp is defined as a "silly or annoying person".

Yeah, I'm calling that a "series of personal insults". Because I can't find the shiny side, and I turned it over twice.

I'm giving you to the count of 10 to go lighter on personally insulting language.

It's just that simple.

Oh yeah....

Umbrage....as defined below.

take offense, take exception, be aggrieved, be affronted, be annoyed, be angry, be indignant, be put out, be insulted, be hurt, be piqued, be resentful, be disgruntled, go into a huff, be miffed, have one's nose put out of joint, chafe
"I would take umbrage at that if I thought you were serious"

[Ambling Alp II]

Jeez, I find myself in agreement with Kalan of all people. I don't care how sentimentally nostalgic people want to be Walcott was CHINNY, and it is beyond nonsensical to claim even a clod like Rahman with his huge reach advantage couldn't find that crap chin.

Then it is just a matter of what effect the extra 30 - 40 lbs has.

Factor in also the smallest guy to stop Rahman was a full 25lb heavier than any version of JJW, and the 2 guys to out point Hasim had chins a lot better than Joe's.

Your first line should tell you something.

Walcott was not "chinny". Once his career turned around, he got stopped only three times-once by Joe Louis and once twice by Marciano.
Walcott went 15 rounds the first time against Louis.
He lasted until the 11th round in rematch against Louis.
In the first fight with Marciano, he made it to the 13th round and took some very hard shots.
He never got stopped in four fights with Ezzard Charles.

You can't do all that if you are "chinny".

Rahman got stopped twice for frikkin Maskaev. If anyone is "chinny" it's Rahman.

Rahman may have been taller and had longer arms, but there is no way he going to outjab Walcott.

Yes Rahman weighed more; Walcott had more muscle and was much faster.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Walcott was a piece of steel. Wide ud or late stoppage. Rahman was a very tough man who had a great career considering how late it started, but a fast powerful master boxer is not his cup of tea.

[Cutman Scabbers]

Walcott was a piece of steel. Wide ud or late stoppage. Rahman was a very tough man who had a great career considering how late it started, but a fast powerful master boxer is not his cup of tea.

[Kalan]

In total seriousness, my takeaway from Kalan's reasoning....(and I don't see it as crazy, just unusual) is that he factors size, and height more so than many of us.) Rahman did beat Lewis, and that says quite a bit, and he's a big hombre.

Now he'll get up in my grill for saying this by countering with a skill discussion....and I don't mind that.

But when you take the entirety of his opinion/s into consideration, he does give MUCH consideration to size itself. (Tua vs Frazier, Walcott vs Rahman etc....oh yeah and Wilt vs Ali).

So there's method to the madness. And Kalan, I'm not saying you DON"T consider skill, you obviously do, but in my opinion, you give a lot of credit to the pounds and inches.

Which isn't insane, since that's the basis of the divisions to begin with.

But it's controversial obviously.

I actually DON'T actually give that much consideration to pounds and inches.. Giant sized guys are usually slow, uncoordinated, and wide open like Julius Long, David Price, Michael Grant, and Ty Fields... Fields, was so easy to hit he was flattened by Michael Grant -- and Grant was flattened by Dominic Guinn who was no great shakes.. So when you say I put a lot of emphasis on size that's the farthest thing from the truth..

I believe Roy Jones would have beaten Rahman by decision so I'm not super impressed with Rahman as an athlete.. But Joe Walcott was very easy to hit.. He got beaten and knocked out a lot, and so did Rahman -- but Rahman didn't get beaten as often.. Walcott smoked 2 packs a day. He wore down easily and faked his way through fights by juking, the cake walk, and other stalling tactics.. Louis was done when he knocked Walcott out.. Louis was super hittable and his reflexes were shot at that time, and he looked like a guy in his 40's.. A prime Charles---who fought most of his career as a Middleweight and Light Heavyweight---beat Walcott twice before Charles started sliding.. The reason Charles was fighting Walcott for a 3rd time after beating him twice??? There just wasn't any new blood or any good Heavyweight contenders. Charles said he felt really bad for their 3rd fight and didn't have any timing or reflexes.. He was probably suffering the early inroads of the disease that killed him at 53, ALS.. Your motor skills can be deteriorating for many years before you're diagnosed with ALS.

Rocky Marciano weighed 184 when he knocked Walcott out.. Rocky was so short, small, slow, crude, and inept that Walcott said, "If Marciano beats me you can take my name out of the record book." The smoker wore down and little Rocky got him.

[Ambling Alp II]

Oh please. You don't talk about size being a big deal? In your own words, you said Rahman had a better jab and straight right, and was a much bigger and stronger man.

Then you go on about Marciano only weighing 184 pounds. Here is a news flash: Rocky Marciano was a harder puncher than Rahman.

Btw-Rahman was not the stronger man. And no way did he have the better jab.
Also, there is little to no evidence that Charles was already suffering from ALS. He had good performances following his loss to Walcott.

[elmersalsa]

Both of them, the great Jersey Joe Walcott and Hasim Rahman, won the heavyweight title by a one-punch knockout. Ain't that ironic? Very interesting!

[jbizzle20]

Walcot from the match with Lous 1 to sweeping Rahman

Louis retired after beating Walcott because he was 43 and had deteriorating skills as Charles proved 2 years later. Louis dropped him anyway. Sorry, but he didn't dominate Louis like Charles did. Marciano was a whopping 5'10 184 lbs and KO'd Walcott quick, twice. Rahman was a top HW contender in his prime. He had decent footwork, a good jab, and good power. Walcott would be a CW at best today. Most CWs can't cut it against top HWs of today. That's why they have their own division. Walcott was no Holyfield, either. Rahman would render Walcott comatose if he connects on just one or two power shots.

[Kalan]

Oh please. You don't talk about size being a big deal? In your own words, you said Rahman had a better jab and straight right, and was a much bigger and stronger man. Then you go on about Marciano only weighing 184 pounds. Here is a news flash: Rocky Marciano was a harder puncher than Rahman. Btw-Rahman was not the stronger man. And no way did he have the better jab. Also, there is little to no evidence that Charles was already suffering from ALS. He had good performances following his loss to Walcott.

First, I don't overemphasize size and strength.. To me, brain power, athletic ability, and boxing skill are more important.. otherwise Roy Jones wouldn't have beaten John Ruiz and David Haye wouldn't have so easily beaten a stumble bum giant who was over 100 pounds heavier and 9 inches taller.. Size and strength are still significant factors otherwise Nicolai Valuev wouldn't have finished his career 50-2, knocked out Monte Barrett, beat Larry Donald, and won a version of the Heavyweight Title.. The giant beat a lot of guys who were much better and faster athletes, much smarter strategists, and who had a lot more skill than he had.. But he wouldn't dare fight the K-Bros who were about 70 pounds lighter and 5 and 6 inches shorter, because they would have murdered him -- although he would have made Primo Carnera look like a midget.

Secondly, here's a news flash for you... It took Marciano 9 rounds to KO fat little Don Cockell, who had been knocked out many times before, including by Middleweight Randy Turpin.. 3. Marciano failed to KO washed up Ezzard Charles the 1st time he fought him.. 4. Marciano took 11 rounds to KO super small, inept, weak, and soft punching Roland LaStarza... 5. Mike Tyson---a heavyweight as tall as Marciano but 35 pounds heavier, more solid, and several times stronger and faster---would have knocked all those guys out in the same round: the 1st round..

Rahman could bench over 500 pounds at the time he knocked out Lewis with one punch.. He could punch a lot harder than Marciano.. Rocky never faced ANY Heavyweight who had remotely close to the combination of height, size, power, strength, and skill that Lennox Lewis possessed.. Mostly Marciano faced little Light Heavyweight challengers no bigger than himself.. Even little 182-pound Floyd Patterson finished off Archie Moore much faster than Rocky did, without getting knocked down.. Rahman was even bigger than Sonny Liston, who crushed Patterson like a roach.

[Tomasino]

Tomasino... shut your ugly, stupid, ignorant face, because you have no argument you pathetic little twerp.

OK, hold it right there.....
I take umbrage to this.

First of all, we don't know what Tomasino looks like, he could be the dashing sort for all anyone here knows. So this is conjecture at best. Secondly, pathetic is a judgment, and twerp is defined as a "silly or annoying person".

Yeah, I'm calling that a "series of personal insults". Because I can't find the shiny side, and I turned it over twice.

I'm giving you to the count of 10 to go lighter on personally insulting language.

It's just that simple.

Oh yeah....

Umbrage....as defined below.

take offense, take exception, be aggrieved, be affronted, be annoyed, be angry, be indignant, be put out, be insulted, be hurt, be piqued, be resentful, be disgruntled, go into a huff, be miffed, have one's nose put out of joint, chafe
"I would take umbrage at that if I thought you were serious"

I don't mind the insults from the guy. I'm insulting him also.

He insults fighters and peoples intelligence far more and that's worse in my book. Troll, plain and simple.

[Tomasino]

Walcot from the match with Lous 1 to sweeping Rahman

Louis retired after beating Walcott because he was 43 and had deteriorating skills as Charles proved 2 years later. Louis dropped him anyway. Sorry, but he didn't dominate Louis like Charles did. Marciano was a whopping 5'10 184 lbs and KO'd Walcott quick, twice. Rahman was a top HW contender in his prime. He had decent footwork, a good jab, and good power. Walcott would be a CW at best today. Most CWs can't cut it against top HWs of today. That's why they have their own division. Walcott was no Holyfield, either. Rahman would render Walcott comatose if he connects on just one or two power shots.

The Rock KOd Walcott in 13 the first fight, after a fight of the year battle, the likes of which fat Rahman could never have competed in. Marciano, despite his size was one of the hardest punchers in history. He was also utterly fearless and incredibly durable.

[Kalan]

Joe Frazier would run over Marciano like he ran over Jerry Quarry...

Frazier was too big, strong, and tough for both Quarry and Marciano.. Marciano was decked by little Light Havyweights like Archie Moore---who started his career as a Welterweight.. Mariano had to punch and punch and punch and punch little Archie Moore for 9 rounds to get him out.. Little Floyd Patterson (182) crushed Moore a lot faster than Rocky Marciano could do it.. Everyone knows Sonny Liston made Patterson look like an ant being stepped on.. And how long did Mike Tyson have to punch undefeated 212-pound Michael Spinks to get him out??? ... Not too long actually..

Joe Frazier was 20 pounds heavier than Marciano at 205... Joe crushed dynamite hitting, 188-pound Light Heavyweight Bob Foster like he was a flyweight.

But everyone knows what BIG George Foreman did to LITTLE Joe Frazier... The challengers who Marciano fought were tiny little guys.

[Keko]

Walcot from the match with Lous 1 to sweeping Rahman

Louis retired after beating Walcott because he was 43 and had deteriorating skills as Charles proved 2 years later. Louis dropped him anyway. Sorry, but he didn't dominate Louis like Charles did. Marciano was a whopping 5'10 184 lbs and KO'd Walcott quick, twice. Rahman was a top HW contender in his prime. He had decent footwork, a good jab, and good power. Walcott would be a CW at best today. Most CWs can't cut it against top HWs of today. That's why they have their own division. Walcott was no Holyfield, either. Rahman would render Walcott comatose if he connects on just one or two power shots.

I'm talking about the first fight with Louis, Walcott was better for Rahman is too fast.

[Ambling Alp II]

Oh please. You don't talk about size being a big deal? In your own words, you said Rahman had a better jab and straight right, and was a much bigger and stronger man. Then you go on about Marciano only weighing 184 pounds. Here is a news flash: Rocky Marciano was a harder puncher than Rahman. Btw-Rahman was not the stronger man. And no way did he have the better jab. Also, there is little to no evidence that Charles was already suffering from ALS. He had good performances following his loss to Walcott.

First, I don't overemphasize size and strength.. To me, brain power, athletic ability, and boxing skill are more important.. otherwise Roy Jones wouldn't have beaten John Ruiz and David Haye wouldn't have so easily beaten a stumble bum giant who was over 100 pounds heavier and 9 inches taller.. Size and strength are still significant factors otherwise Nicolai Valuev wouldn't have finished his career 50-2, knocked out Monte Barrett, beat Larry Donald, and won a version of the Heavyweight Title.. The giant beat a lot of guys who were much better and faster athletes, much smarter strategists, and who had a lot more skill than he had.. But he wouldn't dare fight the K-Bros who were about 70 pounds lighter and 5 and 6 inches shorter, because they would have murdered him -- although he would have made Primo Carnera look like a midget.

Secondly, here's a news flash for you... It took Marciano 9 rounds to KO fat little Don Cockell, who had been knocked out many times before, including by Middleweight Randy Turpin.. 3. Marciano failed to KO washed up Ezzard Charles the 1st time he fought him.. 4. Marciano took 11 rounds to KO super small, inept, weak, and soft punching Roland LaStarza... 5. Mike Tyson---a heavyweight as tall as Marciano but 35 pounds heavier, more solid, and several times stronger and faster---would have knocked all those guys out in the same round: the 1st round..

Rahman could bench over 500 pounds at the time he knocked out Lewis with one punch.. He could punch a lot harder than Marciano.. Rocky never faced ANY Heavyweight who had remotely close to the combination of height, size, power, strength, and skill that Lennox Lewis possessed.. Mostly Marciano faced little Light Heavyweight challengers no bigger than himself.. Even little 182-pound Floyd Patterson finished off Archie Moore much faster than Rocky did, without getting knocked down.. Rahman was even bigger than Sonny Liston, who crushed Patterson like a roach.

You don't overemphaisize size and strength? What a joke. You have pointed out size several times already in this post and then you did it several times again.
Rahman being a harder puncher than Marciano had got to be one of the dumbest things I have ever heard.

Take away Rahman's one big punch against Lewis and you don't have much. It was once punch that landed perfectly against a over confident Lewis. Only watch Wilfred Benitez fight against Maurice Hope and you would think Benitez was a brutal puncher.
You can do the "why didn't Marciano knockout this guy sooner" with just about anybody. Rahman couldn't Rahman knockout out legends like Zuri Lawrence, Taurus Sykes, Monte Barrett, Al Cole, Jesse Ferguson, Obed Sullivan, or Ross Purrity? He couldn't knockout glass jaw W. Klitschko. Two chances against Oleg Maskeav and he couldn't knock him out. (He actually got knocked out twice himself by flippin Oleg.) All of these guys got stopped multiple times by other people.

Love how you try to belittle Walcott's win over Charles, because Charles was supposedly past his prime. (He wasn't.) Yet over and over in other posts you ignore the stage of a fighters career.

Even by your standards a horrible post. You know little about boxing and less about boxing history. So sorry, the sport didn't start in the 1980s. You don't know what you don't know.

[Tomasino]

Oh please. You don't talk about size being a big deal? In your own words, you said Rahman had a better jab and straight right, and was a much bigger and stronger man. Then you go on about Marciano only weighing 184 pounds. Here is a news flash: Rocky Marciano was a harder puncher than Rahman. Btw-Rahman was not the stronger man. And no way did he have the better jab. Also, there is little to no evidence that Charles was already suffering from ALS. He had good performances following his loss to Walcott.

First, I don't overemphasize size and strength.. To me, brain power, athletic ability, and boxing skill are more important.. otherwise Roy Jones wouldn't have beaten John Ruiz and David Haye wouldn't have so easily beaten a stumble bum giant who was over 100 pounds heavier and 9 inches taller.. Size and strength are still significant factors otherwise Nicolai Valuev wouldn't have finished his career 50-2, knocked out Monte Barrett, beat Larry Donald, and won a version of the Heavyweight Title.. The giant beat a lot of guys who were much better and faster athletes, much smarter strategists, and who had a lot more skill than he had.. But he wouldn't dare fight the K-Bros who were about 70 pounds lighter and 5 and 6 inches shorter, because they would have murdered him -- although he would have made Primo Carnera look like a midget.

Secondly, here's a news flash for you... It took Marciano 9 rounds to KO fat little Don Cockell, who had been knocked out many times before, including by Middleweight Randy Turpin.. 3. Marciano failed to KO washed up Ezzard Charles the 1st time he fought him.. 4. Marciano took 11 rounds to KO super small, inept, weak, and soft punching Roland LaStarza... 5. Mike Tyson---a heavyweight as tall as Marciano but 35 pounds heavier, more solid, and several times stronger and faster---would have knocked all those guys out in the same round: the 1st round..

Rahman could bench over 500 pounds at the time he knocked out Lewis with one punch.. He could punch a lot harder than Marciano.. Rocky never faced ANY Heavyweight who had remotely close to the combination of height, size, power, strength, and skill that Lennox Lewis possessed.. Mostly Marciano faced little Light Heavyweight challengers no bigger than himself.. Even little 182-pound Floyd Patterson finished off Archie Moore much faster than Rocky did, without getting knocked down.. Rahman was even bigger than Sonny Liston, who crushed Patterson like a roach.

You don't overemphaisize size and strength? What a joke. You have pointed out size several times already in this post and then you did it several times again.
Rahman being a harder puncher than Marciano had got to be one of the dumbest things I have ever heard.

Take away Rahman's one big punch against Lewis and you don't have much. It was once punch that landed perfectly against a over confident Lewis. Only watch Wilfred Benitez fight against Maurice Hope and you would think Benitez was a brutal puncher.
You can do the "why didn't Marciano knockout this guy sooner" with just about anybody. Rahman couldn't Rahman knockout out legends like Zuri Lawrence, Taurus Sykes, Monte Barrett, Al Cole, Jesse Ferguson, Obed Sullivan, or Ross Purrity? He couldn't knockout glass jaw W. Klitschko. Two chances against Oleg Maskeav and he couldn't knock him out. (He actually got knocked out twice himself by flippin Oleg.) All of these guys got stopped multiple times by other people.

Love how you try to belittle Walcott's win over Charles, because Charles was supposedly past his prime. (He wasn't.) Yet over and over in other posts you ignore the stage of a fighters career.

Even by your standards a horrible post. You know little about boxing and less about boxing history. So sorry, the sport didn't start in the 1980s. You don't know what you don't know.

I've encountered pea brains like this at work. They can't learn even the simplest of tasks. They always know better and always end up sacked. Moving from dead end job to dead end job, always someone else's fault. I guess he is out of a job just now and that's why we have to endure his vitriolic drivel.