Who Would Win - Calzaghe or Ward?

Boxerbeetle · Post by **Boxerbeetle** » 21 Nov 2016, 15:59

As much as it pains me to say as a massive Calzaghe fan since the very beginning of his career, I'm starting to think that Ward would have beaten him.

Thoughts?

Finn · Post by **Finn** » 21 Nov 2016, 16:23

Calzaghe in his later career around the time of the Lacey and Kessler fights beats Ward imo.

He had the adaptability, handspeed, and counter punching to beat Ward at his own game.

I hoped when Ward won the super six that calzaghe would come out of retirement to try and cement his legacy by facing him.

Stuarty · Post by **Stuarty** » 21 Nov 2016, 16:28

Calzaghe. I'm absolutely convinced Joe would've worked Ward out.

Bard of Boxrec · Post by **Bard of Boxrec** » 21 Nov 2016, 16:32

Calzaghe would have just outworked him like he did Hopkins. Wouldn't have landed much clean, but too busy.

TheLeprechaun · Post by **TheLeprechaun** » 21 Nov 2016, 16:45

Hopkins performance vs calzaghe is so underrated. He caught him with lovely counters all night

ward would have won and Kovalev would certainly have beaten joe

Supremo · Post by **Supremo** » 21 Nov 2016, 16:52

I think Kovalev would have knocked him out and I think Ward would out point him pretty comfortably.

Look at their performances against mutual opponents. Ward dealt with Kessler more comfortably and in my opinion Bhop beat Calzaghe where Kovalev totally outboxed him

olij999 · Post by **olij999** » 21 Nov 2016, 17:05

Sad to say, but I think it would depend on where the fight took place and who the referee was. Ward seems to get away with a remarkable amount of holding and fouling. Either way, having done a fun pile of ironing while watching the Kovalev v Ward fight on replay on Sunday morning, think it would have been less painful to have done it with the TV off - Ward has such a nihilistic style, I can't see myself watching one of his fights again.

Boxerbeetle · Post by **Boxerbeetle** » 21 Nov 2016, 17:16

Supremo wrote:I think Kovalev would have knocked him out and I think Ward would out point him pretty comfortably.

Look at their performances against mutual opponents. Ward dealt with Kessler more comfortably and in my opinion Bhop beat Calzaghe where Kovalev totally outboxed him

To be fair, Hopkins was nearly 50 years old by the time he faced Kovalev.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 21 Nov 2016, 17:20

Supremo wrote:I think Kovalev would have knocked him out and I think Ward would out point him pretty comfortably.

Look at their performances against mutual opponents. Ward dealt with Kessler more comfortably and in my opinion Bhop beat Calzaghe where Kovalev totally outboxed him

Kessler was several years older, past his prime, and riddled with injuries. The version Calzaghe beat was in his prime.

Again Hopkins was several years older by the time he got to Kovalev, and in against a naturally bigger, younger, fresher man.

You are aware of the ageining process right?

Supremo · Post by **Supremo** » 21 Nov 2016, 17:24

Hopkins was in his 40s and well by his prime by the time he fought Calzaghe. I don't think his ability fell off the edge of a cliff in the intervening years between facing both. Their performances against him were night and day.
He had been good enough to beat pascal and cloud and compete with Dawson - around the time he fought Kovalev.
That's as good, if not better, than the likes of Pavlik who he was beating at the time he fought Calzaghe.

There was only 24 months between Calzaghe fighting Kessler and Ward.

Anyway my basis for thinking that Calzaghe would get beaten off both isn't just because of fights with a couple of mutual opponents. Both and more skilled technicians than Calzaghe and hit harder.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 21 Nov 2016, 17:38

Supremo wrote:Hopkins was in his 40s and well by his prime by the time he fought Calzaghe. I don't think his ability fell off the edge of a cliff in the intervening years between facing both. Their performances against him were night and day.
He had been good enough to beat pascal and cloud and compete with Dawson - around the time he fought Kovalev.
That's as good, if not better, than the likes of Pavlik who he was beating at the time he fought Calzaghe.

There was only 24 months between Calzaghe fighting Kessler and Ward.

Anyway my basis for thinking that Calzaghe would get beaten off both isn't just because of fights with a couple of mutual opponents. Both and more skilled technicians than Calzaghe and hit harder.

Hopkins had been in slow decline for some time, there were a lot of fights between Calzaghe and Kovalev, he was almost 50 for god's sake, it's not like he 'fell off a cliff' he met a guy too big, too strong and too fresh and with enough ability to nullify him.

I'd say Calzaghe ward would be razor thin, either man might have wonl, Kessler had been plagued by shoulder injuries following the Calzaghe fight, it was pretty well documented at the time, hard to know how joe would have done against Kovalev, as he never faced off against a career light heavyweight.

TheGman · Post by **TheGman** » 21 Nov 2016, 17:44

Calzaghe,too busy to awkward for ward,ward couldnt deal with the pace of joe imo

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 21 Nov 2016, 17:54

thechump wrote:Calzaghe,too busy to awkward for ward,ward couldnt deal with the pace of joe imo

That's the one thing I Joe's favour, he would be coming forward throwing shots, and he'd be tricky to catch hold of as he had excellent movement.

It could have gone either way, but I slightly favour joe.

Finn · Post by **Finn** » 21 Nov 2016, 19:01

Supremo wrote:I think Kovalev would have knocked him out and I think Ward would out point him pretty comfortably.

Look at their performances against mutual opponents. Ward dealt with Kessler more comfortably and in my opinion Bhop beat Calzaghe where Kovalev totally outboxed him

Ah but calzaghe was really a SMW, and he still beat Bhop at LH. I'd be expecting him to fight Ward at SMW.

It's a big call to say a guy who never seemed to be hurt on the rare occasions he was dropped would be ko'd by someone.

I don't think youre right about Kessler, Kessler wasn't in his prime when he fought Ward and Ward head butted him about 10 times. Calzaghe adapted and comprehensively out boxed him.

Supremo · Post by **Supremo** » 22 Nov 2016, 03:26

Finn wrote:
Supremo wrote:I think Kovalev would have knocked him out and I think Ward would out point him pretty comfortably.

Look at their performances against mutual opponents. Ward dealt with Kessler more comfortably and in my opinion Bhop beat Calzaghe where Kovalev totally outboxed him
Ah but calzaghe was really a SMW, and he still beat Bhop at LH. I'd be expecting him to fight Ward at SMW.

It's a big call to say a guy who never seemed to be hurt on the rare occasions he was dropped would be ko'd by someone.

I don't think youre right about Kessler, Kessler wasn't in his prime when he fought Ward and Ward head butted him about 10 times. Calzaghe adapted and comprehensively out boxed him.

Hopkins was hardly a puncher but put Calzaghe down did he not? And I don't think it's a big call to say that a guy with Kovalevs power would KO someone. If he lands clean then you're out. I think he would land clean on Calzaghe.

nitro5912 · Post by **nitro5912** » 22 Nov 2016, 05:13

Supremo wrote:Hopkins was in his 40s and well by his prime by the time he fought Calzaghe. I don't think his ability fell off the edge of a cliff in the intervening years between facing both. Their performances against him were night and day.
He had been good enough to beat pascal and cloud and compete with Dawson - around the time he fought Kovalev.
That's as good, if not better, than the likes of Pavlik who he was beating at the time he fought Calzaghe.

There was only 24 months between Calzaghe fighting Kessler and Ward.

Anyway my basis for thinking that Calzaghe would get beaten off both isn't just because of fights with a couple of mutual opponents. Both and more skilled technicians than Calzaghe and hit harder.

So 2 years in which he had 3 fights. Plus didn't ward headbutt him all fight causing his eye problems

coneye · Post by **coneye** » 22 Nov 2016, 07:10

Ward easy ,, Slappy did'nt hit hard enough to teach Ward manners ,,

Covfefe · Post by **Covfefe** » 22 Nov 2016, 07:13

coneye wrote:Ward easy ,, Slappy did'nt hit hard enough to teach Ward manners ,,

But he was busy enough to give him nightmares. He had the stamina and the chin to take Ward into deep waters. Until Saturday night I wasn't sure how it would go but now I am. JC wins on points, very similar to the Hopkins fight.

PredatorHayds · Post by **PredatorHayds** » 22 Nov 2016, 07:14

I'd pick Ward to win on points.

He'd make Calzaghe miss and counter him.

Calzaghe had the better workrate but can't see Ward staying in range letting Joe let off his flurrys. Ward is one of the cleverest fighters of a generation.

coneye · Post by **coneye** » 22 Nov 2016, 07:18

PredatorHayds wrote:I'd pick Ward to win on points.

He'd make Calzaghe miss and counter him.

Calzaghe had the better workrate but can't see Ward staying in range letting Joe let off his flurrys. Ward is one of the cleverest fighters of a generation.

THIS

Ian1973 · Post by **Ian1973** » 22 Nov 2016, 07:21

Calzaghe. His sheer speed and volume would be too much for Ward.

davie · Post by **davie** » 22 Nov 2016, 07:40

I've always leaned towards Joe and have seen nothing recently to change my mind on that front.

I must admit to a fair degree of bias and favoritism there however.

I think Joes speed and workrate would have won it. I thought he beat B-hop and the Ward fight would be similar.

It is far from a foregone conclussion however. It's definitely in the 60/40 range. I could see it being the type of rivalry that would require a rubber match and we'd still be disputing who was the better man several decades later.

I think Kovalevs style and physical attributes however might be a problem for Joe, particularly an older lighter punching Joe.
Joe would be well ahead at the midway point but I could see Kovalev getting to him at some point and puttting him down a couple times. He's not as cute as Hopkins and Ward and would have taken punches. As good as Joes chin was I think that would have been a test too far

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 22 Nov 2016, 07:46

Supremo wrote:
Finn wrote:
Supremo wrote:I think Kovalev would have knocked him out and I think Ward would out point him pretty comfortably.

Look at their performances against mutual opponents. Ward dealt with Kessler more comfortably and in my opinion Bhop beat Calzaghe where Kovalev totally outboxed him
Ah but calzaghe was really a SMW, and he still beat Bhop at LH. I'd be expecting him to fight Ward at SMW.

It's a big call to say a guy who never seemed to be hurt on the rare occasions he was dropped would be ko'd by someone.

I don't think youre right about Kessler, Kessler wasn't in his prime when he fought Ward and Ward head butted him about 10 times. Calzaghe adapted and comprehensively out boxed him.
Hopkins was hardly a puncher but put Calzaghe down did he not? And I don't think it's a big call to say that a guy with Kovalevs power would KO someone. If he lands clean then you're out. I think he would land clean on Calzaghe.

Calzaghe was as hard as nails, he was dropped a few times in his career, took some absolutely monster punches too, and despite being dropped a handful of times, never came close to being stopped. Brewer hit him with an absolute belter, Calzaghe went down, got up, and then proceeded to tear into brewer.

Calzaghe was caught against Jones and Hopkins with sneaky counters, but neither time was he hurt.

Boxerbeetle · Post by **Boxerbeetle** » 22 Nov 2016, 08:03

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Supremo wrote:
Finn wrote:
Ah but calzaghe was really a SMW, and he still beat Bhop at LH. I'd be expecting him to fight Ward at SMW.

It's a big call to say a guy who never seemed to be hurt on the rare occasions he was dropped would be ko'd by someone.

I don't think youre right about Kessler, Kessler wasn't in his prime when he fought Ward and Ward head butted him about 10 times. Calzaghe adapted and comprehensively out boxed him.
Hopkins was hardly a puncher but put Calzaghe down did he not? And I don't think it's a big call to say that a guy with Kovalevs power would KO someone. If he lands clean then you're out. I think he would land clean on Calzaghe.
Calzaghe was as hard as nails, he was dropped a few times in his career, took some absolutely monster punches too, and despite being dropped a handful of times, never came close to being stopped. Brewer hit him with an absolute belter, Calzaghe went down, got up, and then proceeded to tear into brewer.

Calzaghe was caught against Jones and Hopkins with sneaky counters, but neither time was he hurt.

Brewer didn't put him down - are you thinking of the Mitchell fight?

Counter-puncher · Post by **Counter-puncher** » 22 Nov 2016, 08:10

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Supremo wrote:
Finn wrote:
Ah but calzaghe was really a SMW, and he still beat Bhop at LH. I'd be expecting him to fight Ward at SMW.

It's a big call to say a guy who never seemed to be hurt on the rare occasions he was dropped would be ko'd by someone.

I don't think youre right about Kessler, Kessler wasn't in his prime when he fought Ward and Ward head butted him about 10 times. Calzaghe adapted and comprehensively out boxed him.
Hopkins was hardly a puncher but put Calzaghe down did he not? And I don't think it's a big call to say that a guy with Kovalevs power would KO someone. If he lands clean then you're out. I think he would land clean on Calzaghe.
Calzaghe was as hard as nails, he was dropped a few times in his career, took some absolutely monster punches too, and despite being dropped a handful of times, never came close to being stopped. Brewer hit him with an absolute belter, Calzaghe went down, got up, and then proceeded to tear into brewer.

Calzaghe was caught against Jones and Hopkins with sneaky counters, but neither time was he hurt.

Hopkins hurt him, he took a couple of rounds to get his legs back properly IMO, not that he was bandylegged from the shot but his legs were definitely stiff and slow from it