Floyd Patterson vs Ray Robinson - 1958

[evrenb]

I never new this, that there was talk of Robinson challenging Patterson for the World Heavyweight title around 1958. Has anyone heard of this before and who would you pick??

[Rexob]

Patterson by 2 round knockout.

[Kalan]

Patterson beat Joey Maxim when he had 13 pro fights and weighed only 168... At least all 11 ringside sportswriters and all the fans thought Patterson won.

As a full blown Heavyweight Patterson could flatten 200-pounders.. Robinson would be a snowflake in Hell.

[elmersalsa]

Floyd Patterson would've had one of the greatest wins of his career and be called an all time great. Too big, strong and way too young for Sugar Ray.

[Kalan]

Floyd Patterson would've had one of the greatest wins of his career and be called an all time great. Too big, strong and way too young for Sugar Ray.

Totally agree, particularly with the part in bold.

NOPE!!! A youthful Patterson would destroy a youthful Robinson... Robinson was never even ready for a talented Light Heavyweight in his life... He was stopped by a very slow and soft punching Light Heavyweight... and after that SRR never made the mistake of trying to fight a Light Heavyweight again.

[Syntax Error]

Patterson by TKO.

Floyd was biggesr, faster, stronger, much younger, way more powerful & better skilled than Robinson '58.

Sugar Ray would have been lucky to hear the bell for Round 10.

[APerno]

.
Patterson by KO/TKO early.

[evrenb]

Thanks for all your opinions....I'm kind of surprised it was being talked about as an actual match at that point...a curious match to say the least...

[elmersalsa]

Floyd Patterson wins because of the weight discrepancy. Not because he had better boxing skills.

[APerno]

At the risk of getting esoteric . . . we are speculating off a common boxing adage: ‘a good big man beats a good small man every time.’

What we have to ask ourselves: ‘does a good big man beat a great small man?’

The difference here is Patterson’s speed not just his size; Patterson probably came close to matching Robinson’s hand speed. That gives only the advantage of ‘boxing skills’ to the smaller man; not enough.

[elmersalsa]

At the risk of getting esoteric . . . we are speculating off a common boxing adage: ‘a good big man beats a good small man every time.’

What we have to ask ourselves: ‘does a good big man beat a great small man?’

The difference here is Patterson’s speed not just his size; Patterson probably came close to matching Robinson’s hand speed. That gives only the advantage of ‘boxing skills’ to the smaller man; not enough.

That's one of the rules of boxing. A great big man beats a great smaller man. That happens 95 or 99% of the time. I like that rule more than "Styles make fights" I never got it. To me is a bunch of bullcrap. You can't beat the guy and that's it. That doesn't mean that you are gonna beat that same fighter all the time. You probably win most of the time, I get that. But every time? I don't buy that!

[Kalan]

If you can beat a guy fairly easily in boxing you can beat him all the time... You have to take it very easy on him in sparring or he won't show up -- and after you beat a guy about 20 times in a row that's probably the last you'll see of him unless you pay him very well.. Ezzard Charles beat Joey Maxim five times because they fought 5 times.. Charles beat Archie Moore 3 X because they fought 3 times.. It's a cinch Ray Robinson wouldn't have risked a fight with a prime Charles

When Patterson came up Charles didn't qualify to fight him... Charles kept losing fights... He never could figure out why he was losing so many fights, but finally he was diagnosed with ALS.., but I'm happy Ezzard didn't fight Patterson because it would have been bad... Really bad.

The guys who beat Robinson, like: Randy Turpin, Gene Fullmer, Carmin Basilio, Ralph Jones, and Paul Pender -- would never have signed to fight Patterson

[Syntax Error]

Patterson by TKO.

Floyd was biggesr, faster, stronger, much younger, way more powerful & better skilled than Robinson '58.

Sugar Ray would have been lucky to hear the bell for Round 10.

I am glad you put that qualifier in Syntax, as I simply could not believe, or accept FP was better skilled per se of the 2 of them.

Absolutely, although Patterson was no slouch in the skill deparment either.

Muhammad Ali cites Patterson was the most skilled fighter he faced & we all know Ali fought the world & his wife, but peak Robinson (1940s) is virtually as good as it gets skillwise.

[Kalan]

I rank Floyd Patterson a better Heavyweight than Ray Robinson was a Middleweight.. Floyd was 6-2 in Heavyweight Title Defenses and Robinson was 3-3 in Middleweight Title Defenses... Patterson beat: Eddie Machen, Jimmy Ellis, George Chuvalo, Oscar Bonavena, Ingemar Johansson X 2, Archie Moore, and Tommy Jackson X 2.. He beat Ellis in anyone's opinion tho ever watched the fight except for the referee.. That stacks up well versus the myriad swingers, slowpokes, plodders, and face first journeymen who Robinson fought...

There's nobody Robinson ever fought who could be called a "brilliant boxer" or a "great puncher" ... Jimmy Ellis and Muhammad Ali were better boxers than anyone Robinson ever faced... Sonny Liston and Ingemar Johansson were better punchers than anyone Robinson faced.

[elmersalsa]

I rank Floyd Patterson a better Heavyweight than Ray Robinson was a Middleweight.. Floyd was 6-2 in Heavyweight Title Defenses and Robinson was 3-3 in Middleweight Title Defenses... Patterson beat: Eddie Machen, Jimmy Ellis, George Chuvalo, Oscar Bonavena, Ingemar Johansson X 2, Archie Moore, and Tommy Jackson X 2.. He beat Ellis in anyone's opinion tho ever watched the fight except for the referee.. That stacks up well versus the myriad swingers, slowpokes, plodders, and face first journeymen who Robinson fought...

There's nobody Robinson ever fought who could be called a "brilliant boxer" or a "great puncher" ... Jimmy Ellis and Muhammad Ali were better boxers than anyone Robinson ever faced... Sonny Liston and Ingemar Johansson were better punchers than anyone Robinson faced.

Try the greats Gene Fullmer and Carmen Basilio at 160lbs. Sugar Ray beat them when he wasn't in his prime.
Robinson beat the great Jake LaMotta four out of five fights. He also beat Georgie Abrams, Randy Turpin and Carl "Bobo" Olson... Those were pretty good and great excellent boxers, Kalan.

Rocky Graziano was a terrific puncher. Sugar Ray stopped him in 4. But, I'll give you this: Graziano was not in his prime.

[elmersalsa]

Floyd Patterson was a very skilled fighter. Was he better skilled than the original Sugar Ray? Probably not, but he's mighty close. Patterson had terrific hand speed in his prime. I like the 1950s version of Floyd more than the 1960s version.

[Kalan]

Try the greats Gene Fullmer and Carmen Basilio at 160lbs. Sugar Ray beat them when he wasn't in his prime.
Robinson beat the great Jake LaMotta four out of five fights. He also beat Georgie Abrams, Randy Turpin and Carl "Bobo" Olson... Those were pretty good and great excellent boxers, Kalan.

Rocky Graziano was a terrific puncher. Sugar Ray stopped him in 4. But, I'll give you this: Graziano was not in his prime.

Fullmer, Garziano, and Basilio were extremely tough, but not good boxers come on! ... Turpin and Olson were wide open. They were disasters looking for a place to happen.. Jose Torres looked up to BoBo because of his tattoos and his personality. But he knew he was going to knock him out right away. "It was my easiest fight. He's wide open." ... Archie Moore said, "Bobo can't box and he can't punch. I'm going to knock him out with the first punch I throw."

Patterson fought some guys who could box better than any of those guys... Ellis and Ali were certainly good -- and Eddie Machen wasn't a bad boxer.

[elmersalsa]

Try the greats Gene Fullmer and Carmen Basilio at 160lbs. Sugar Ray beat them when he wasn't in his prime.
Robinson beat the great Jake LaMotta four out of five fights. He also beat Georgie Abrams, Randy Turpin and Carl "Bobo" Olson... Those were pretty good and great excellent boxers, Kalan.

Rocky Graziano was a terrific puncher. Sugar Ray stopped him in 4. But, I'll give you this: Graziano was not in his prime.

Fullmer, Garziano, and Basilio were extremely tough, but not good boxers come on! ... Turpin and Olson were wide open. They were disasters looking for a place to happen.. Jose Torres looked up to BoBo because of his tattoos and his personality. But he knew he was going to knock him out right away. "It was my easiest fight. He's wide open." ... Archie Moore said, "Bobo can't box and he can't punch. I'm going to knock him out with the first punch I throw."

Patterson fought some guys who could box better than any of those guys... Ellis and Ali were certainly good -- and Eddie Machen wasn't a bad boxer.

Randy Turpin gave Sugar Ray a boxing lesson. He was beating Robinson in the rematch, too. The British man got caught with a fantastic shot, that's all. But, Turpin can fight.

Bobo Olson was very strong. That was one of his attributes. To be a champion in that era required more than just mafia or 2000s HBO's backing. You had to fight.

It seemed that you have never seen fight the great Carmen Basilio. Basilio was not a brute type slow poke type of fighter. He could fight well inside and mid range exchanges. He could do lots of things inside. Boxing is not just to box like Sugar Ray. What about how to fight inside? That is an art in boxing. Basilio could do it better than many. Do you expect him to outbox someone taller and bigger than he on the outside?

The great Gene Fullmer was a strong inside pressure fighter. That was his style. Pressure you to death. He could also box like he did to Basilio at times. To say he wasn't that good is like saying Robinson wasn't any good at all. I don't consider Robinson the most complete boxer. In my view, there were more complete boxers than he was. But, looking at Sugar Ray's accomplishments, they were off the chain. I don't believe he was the best boxer ever. But, he is mighty close at that title. If someone says he was the best ever, it's not a farfetched opinion. I would not argue.

You're right about Rocky Graziano, though. I don't think he was a great boxer. A slow poke fighter? I got to see more films of him. But, I don't think he had excellent boxing skills. I would give you that one.

[Kalan]

Bobo Olson was very strong. That was one of his attributes. To be a champion in that era required more than just mafia or 2000s HBO's backing. You had to fight.

It seemed that you have never seen fight the great Carmen Basilio. Basilio was not a brute type slow poke type of fighter. He could fight well inside and mid range exchanges. He could do lots of things inside. Boxing is not just to box like Sugar Ray. What about how to fight inside? That is an art in boxing. Basilio could do it better than many. Do you expect him to outbox someone taller and bigger than he on the outside?

The great Gene Fullmer was a strong inside pressure fighter. That was his style. Pressure you to death. He could also box like he did to Basilio at times. To say he wasn't that good is like saying Robinson wasn't any good at all. I don't consider Robinson the most complete boxer. In my view, there were more complete boxers than he was. But, looking at Sugar Ray's accomplishments, they were off the chain. I don't believe he was the best boxer ever. But, he is mighty close at that title. If someone says he was the best ever, it's not a farfetched opinion. I would not argue.

You're right about Rocky Graziano, though. I don't think he was a great boxer. A slow poke fighter? I got to see more films of him. But, I don't think he had excellent boxing skills. I would give you that one.

Oh MAN!!! Bobo Olson wasn't strong at all... He looked damned weak to me and fought that way.. Archie Moore, Jose Torres, SRR, and others ran Bobo over like he was school girl who stepped in front of a bus ... There were a lot of terrible world champions in that mafia controlled era... Paul Pender, Graziano, LaMotta and many other slow, hittable, and unskilled swingers... Certainly you had huge underdogs upsetting Robinson and grabbing a world title.

Gene Fullmer was only strong in comparison to Basilio and Robinson.. For me he was weak.. The older Dick Tiger chased Gene around the ring and beat the crap out of him... Tiger was WAY too strong and tough for a younger Fullmer... Fullmer was one of the weakest punchers I've ever seen win a World Title as well... After his rematch with Robinson Fullmer had scored only one (1) KO win in his previous 20 fights... And in his next 6 fights he failed to score a KO... In stark contrast, Gennady Golovkin knocked out his last 22 opponents with ease and has dispatched 33 of 36.

I agree with you on Garziano being unskilled... and about Robinson not being a complete---fighter because Graziano knocked Robbie down... The idea that Robinson is the best ever P4P is the most laughable thing ever... His defense was sorely lacking and unskilled swingers like LaMotta, Artie Levine, Tommy Bell, and Graziano knocked SRR down hard... In contrast the superb all-around boxer-puncher and defender, Gennady Golovkin, has never been down in 386 amateur and professional fights and has a Middle Title Fight record of 18-0 with 18 KO wins... His last opponent was a 36-0 World Champion and GGG dispatched him in 5 rounds... Robinson never fought any World Champion with a record that good.

[Kalan]

Bobo Olson was very strong. That was one of his attributes. To be a champion in that era required more than just mafia or 2000s HBO's backing. You had to fight.

It seemed that you have never seen fight the great Carmen Basilio. Basilio was not a brute type slow poke type of fighter. He could fight well inside and mid range exchanges. He could do lots of things inside. Boxing is not just to box like Sugar Ray. What about how to fight inside? That is an art in boxing. Basilio could do it better than many. Do you expect him to outbox someone taller and bigger than he on the outside?

The great Gene Fullmer was a strong inside pressure fighter. That was his style. Pressure you to death. He could also box like he did to Basilio at times. To say he wasn't that good is like saying Robinson wasn't any good at all. I don't consider Robinson the most complete boxer. In my view, there were more complete boxers than he was. But, looking at Sugar Ray's accomplishments, they were off the chain. I don't believe he was the best boxer ever. But, he is mighty close at that title. If someone says he was the best ever, it's not a farfetched opinion. I would not argue.

You're right about Rocky Graziano, though. I don't think he was a great boxer. A slow poke fighter? I got to see more films of him. But, I don't think he had excellent boxing skills. I would give you that one.

Oh MAN!!! Bobo Olson wasn't strong at all... He looked damned weak to me and fought that way.. Archie Moore, Jose Torres, SRR, and others ran Bobo over like he was school girl who stepped in front of a bus ... There were a lot of terrible world champions in that mafia controlled era... Paul Pender, Graziano, LaMotta and many other slow, hittable, and unskilled swingers... Certainly you had huge underdogs upsetting Robinson and grabbing a world title.

Gene Fullmer was only strong in comparison to Basilio and Robinson.. For me he was weak.. The older Dick Tiger chased Gene around the ring and beat the crap out of him... Tiger was WAY too strong and tough for a younger Fullmer... Fullmer was one of the weakest punchers I've ever seen win a World Title as well... After his rematch with Robinson Fullmer had scored only one (1) KO win in his previous 20 fights... And in his next 6 fights he failed to score a KO... In stark contrast, Gennady Golovkin knocked out his last 22 opponents with ease and has dispatched 33 of 36.

I agree with you on Garziano being unskilled... and about Robinson not being a complete---fighter because Graziano knocked Robbie down... The idea that Robinson is the best ever P4P is the most laughable thing ever... His defense was sorely lacking and unskilled swingers like LaMotta, Artie Levine, Tommy Bell, and Graziano knocked SRR down hard... In contrast the superb all-around boxer-puncher and defender, Gennady Golovkin, has never been down in 386 amateur and professional fights and has a Middle Title Fight record of 18-0 with 18 KO wins... His last opponent was a 36-0 World Champion and GGG dispatched him in 5 rounds... Robinson never fought any World Champion with a record that good.

It's a shame it took Kell Brook 33 of those 36 fights to finally face an unbeaten fighter isn't it? And said fighter? Drum roll,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, the world renowned Shawn Porter.

I notice you still haven't taken up the challenge of posting SRR's full title fight record, because it makes your biased bullshite look moronic. Try losing his first World Title in his 133rd fight 11 years into his career which he immediately avenged. That might help you to get started.

Oh, and by the way, by the time he lost his world title to the guy he couldn't regain it from he had been fighting for 20 years and was 39, whereas the man he lost it to was 30, and had been fighting for 11 years comprising 39 fights.

But don't let that or the millions of other folks who believe Robinson was the G.O.A.T. stop you from trying to convince everyone the man was one step up from a chump.

You're not one step from a chump...you're already there... Like I said before, Yory Boy Campas went 56-0 before he faced a good fighter in Felix Trinidad... If he quit at 56-0 it wouldn't have made him greater than Marciano or Maryweather based on his W/L record... He certainly couldn't box.

Robinson was a great fighter, but he did pad his record. It's what you did in those days.. He fought 150 easily beaten fighters, many of whom he wouldn't hire for sparring partners.. Golovkin could barnstorm around, fighting one of those creampuffs every week and build a record of 236-0 in 4 years.. Robinson did beat some good fighters, but after he won the Middleweight Title he quickly padded his record with 8 cherry-picks in 4 months, before defending his title.

Your record in Actual Title Defenses is the Gold Standard... Robinson's was pretty good in MIddleweight Title Defenses but not as good as Golovkin's

GGG's record in World MIddleweight Title Defenses: 17-0 with 17 KO wins

SRR's record in World MIddleweight Title Defenses: 3-3 with 2 KO wins

GGG is a dynamite puncher and finds it difficult to get the World's best Middleweights into a ring... They're scared... SRR wasn't so scary -- scoring only 2 KO wins in 6 Middleweight Title Defenses.. And guys who saw his effort against Ralph Jones were further reassured they likely wouldn't get stretched.

[gilgamesh]

Patterson would've kicked the sh*t out of Ray Robinson if this had happened.

[elmersalsa]

Oh MAN!!! Bobo Olson wasn't strong at all... He looked damned weak to me and fought that way.. Archie Moore, Jose Torres, SRR, and others ran Bobo over like he was school girl who stepped in front of a bus ... There were a lot of terrible world champions in that mafia controlled era... Paul Pender, Graziano, LaMotta and many other slow, hittable, and unskilled swingers... Certainly you had huge underdogs upsetting Robinson and grabbing a world title.

Gene Fullmer was only strong in comparison to Basilio and Robinson.. For me he was weak.. The older Dick Tiger chased Gene around the ring and beat the crap out of him... Tiger was WAY too strong and tough for a younger Fullmer... Fullmer was one of the weakest punchers I've ever seen win a World Title as well... After his rematch with Robinson Fullmer had scored only one (1) KO win in his previous 20 fights... And in his next 6 fights he failed to score a KO... In stark contrast, Gennady Golovkin knocked out his last 22 opponents with ease and has dispatched 33 of 36.

I agree with you on Garziano being unskilled... and about Robinson not being a complete---fighter because Graziano knocked Robbie down... The idea that Robinson is the best ever P4P is the most laughable thing ever... His defense was sorely lacking and unskilled swingers like LaMotta, Artie Levine, Tommy Bell, and Graziano knocked SRR down hard... In contrast the superb all-around boxer-puncher and defender, Gennady Golovkin, has never been down in 386 amateur and professional fights and has a Middle Title Fight record of 18-0 with 18 KO wins... His last opponent was a 36-0 World Champion and GGG dispatched him in 5 rounds... Robinson never fought any World Champion with a record that good.

It's a shame it took Kell Brook 33 of those 36 fights to finally face an unbeaten fighter isn't it? And said fighter? Drum roll,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, the world renowned Shawn Porter.

I notice you still haven't taken up the challenge of posting SRR's full title fight record, because it makes your biased bullshite look moronic. Try losing his first World Title in his 133rd fight 11 years into his career which he immediately avenged. That might help you to get started.

Oh, and by the way, by the time he lost his world title to the guy he couldn't regain it from he had been fighting for 20 years and was 39, whereas the man he lost it to was 30, and had been fighting for 11 years comprising 39 fights.

But don't let that or the millions of other folks who believe Robinson was the G.O.A.T. stop you from trying to convince everyone the man was one step up from a chump.

You're not one step from a chump...you're already there... Like I said before, Yory Boy Campas went 56-0 before he faced a good fighter in Felix Trinidad... If he quit at 56-0 it wouldn't have made him greater than Marciano or Maryweather based on his W/L record... He certainly couldn't box.

Robinson was a great fighter, but he did pad his record. It's what you did in those days.. He fought 150 easily beaten fighters, many of whom he wouldn't hire for sparring partners.. Golovkin could barnstorm around, fighting one of those creampuffs every week and build a record of 236-0 in 4 years.. Robinson did beat some good fighters, but after he won the Middleweight Title he quickly padded his record with 8 cherry-picks in 4 months, before defending his title.

Your record in Actual Title Defenses is the Gold Standard... Robinson's was pretty good in MIddleweight Title Defenses but not as good as Golovkin's

GGG's record in World MIddleweight Title Defenses: 17-0 with 17 KO wins

SRR's record in World MIddleweight Title Defenses: 3-3 with 2 KO wins

GGG is a dynamite puncher and finds it difficult to get the World's best Middleweights into a ring... They're scared... SRR wasn't so scary -- scoring only 2 KO wins in 6 Middleweight Title Defenses.. And guys who saw his effort against Ralph Jones were further reassured they likely wouldn't get stretched.

Sugar Ray started at lightweight, Kalan. He was a welterweight fighting middleweights way before winning the welterweight crown. GGG has been a middleweight almost his whole career. Why he doesn't step up 15 pounds and challenge Andre Ward or the best 175lbs pounders have to offer? At least Robinson went up and fought Joey Maxim. Put Sugar Ray in this era and nobody beats him in my view, not even GGG.

[Kalan]

You don't see MIddleweights of today beating Robinson???? LOL!!! ... When SRR went 3-3 in MIddleweight Title Defenses against slow, clumsy clunkers???

Several Middleweights today would certainly beat SRR... GGG would crush the slow, feather punching, and no-defense Fullmer in a a couple rounds... Guys like Jacobs, Saunders, Eubank, and Canelo would easily outbox Fullmer---who went 26 straight fights without a KO win through his first 2 Robinson fights.. And SRR only won 1 of 4 fights with Fullmer..

The skilled Kell Brook would certainly destroy the very short and very hittable small Welterweight Basilio---who lost a lot of fights to 2nd raters.. Brook makes a big Middleweight.. He entered the ring in the 170's.. Basilio beat Robinson but do you see him having a chance with Errol Spence??? He'd get killed and you know it... Ralph Jones lost 5 straight fights before he beat Robinson... I don't see Ralph Jones beating any of today's top 5 or 6 Middleweights but he easily beat Robinson.

[elmersalsa]

You don't see MIddleweights of today beating Robinson???? LOL!!! ... When SRR went 3-3 in MIddleweight Title Defenses against slow, clumsy clunkers???

Several Middleweights today would certainly beat SRR... GGG would crush the slow, feather punching, and no-defense Fullmer in a a couple rounds... Guys like Jacobs, Saunders, Eubank, and Canelo would easily outbox Fullmer---who went 26 straight fights without a KO win through his first 2 Robinson fights.. And SRR only won 1 of 4 fights with Fullmer..

The skilled Kell Brook would certainly destroy the very short and very hittable small Welterweight Basilio---who lost a lot of fights to 2nd raters.. Brook makes a big Middleweight.. He entered the ring in the 170's.. Basilio beat Robinson but do you see him having a chance with Errol Spence??? He'd get killed and you know it... Ralph Jones lost 5 straight fights before he beat Robinson... I don't see Ralph Jones beating any of today's top 5 or 6 Middleweights but he easily beat Robinson.

What can I say about from someone that believes that Wilt Chamberlain and Edwin Valero would have been all time greats in boxing. That's like the great Archie Moore said that actor Burt Lancaster would have been a contender in boxing. I'd rather believe The Ol' Mongoose than your statements. SMH!

It's a big disrespect to say the great Gene Fullmer would have get crushed by GGG. I don't buy that even if it was free. Fullmer was one of the last breed of white American great boxers. A super conditioned athlete that can scrap with any tough rider of any era. By the time GGG's career is over, we probably place him in the top 100 best pound per pound boxers ever. He probably would be a top ten middleweight. Maybe top 5. We never know. But with all his KO punching power, I can't envision stopping Gene. I just can't see it. But, I can see him beating the crap of GGG.

[Kalan]

A sure sign that you have no argument is that you're are NOT addressing my arguments at ALL.. Please go through my last post and address my arguments.. For instance, do you think little Carmen Basilio, who lost fights to a lot of 2nd raters, would beat Errol Spence???

NOBODY considered Gene Fullmer a top boxer or a skilled athlete... Most considered him a clumsy, wide open plodder with no snap in his punches.. He certainly lost his share of fights, fighting guys making their pro debut as late as his 15th fight.. Fullmer went dozens of fights without scoring a KO because he loaded everything.. Fullmer was knocked down, knocked out, and beaten to shreds by Dick Tiger, a tough Nigerian who was out-boxed many times by fair boxers -- Tiger was never outboxed by anyone like Fullmer who he fought 3 X.. Gennady Golovkin would be a 20/1 favorite to beat Fullmer.. It would be a ridiculous slaughter and you know it.