Sulaiman on judging

[boxing_rocks]

http://www.worldboxingnews.net/2016/11/ ... -black-eye

Maybe WBC should have their own judge evaluation system and don't sanction fights with poorly rated or not neutral judges.

[Tanzio]

A Sulaiman is going to cleanup boxing

I agree with the bulk of what he says. Everyone does. Words don't mean much in boxing.

[Ilya Muromets]

"2. Neutrality – The panel of judges must always be from neutral countries from both fighters. This has been proven over and over throughout history. There are cases in which a judge favoured the national fighter, and there are cases in which the judge, trying to be too “neutral,” have judged against their national. It is an element which is simple to avoid.:.......



It's in response to the robbery of Kovalev in Las Vegas - but of course nationalistic judges and favoring the local and pleasing the crowd and otherwise crooked and incompetent judging and refereeing - and fighters taking dives - and even worse things like drugging both your fighter and even your opponent - and even worse things like murder...all in the wonderful world of boxing. But especially the judging. It has gotten so bad that I am shocked when the judges render a righteous decision. But this has been going on for a long time. Did he just notice?

[jamesmcdonnell]

More silky talk - little or nothing will change.

Part of the problem is that boxing judges that are approved by the sanctioning bodies are very sparse indeed, there's not enough approved judges for world title fights. I believe the local commission appoints them from a list of judges approved by the sanctioning body, though saying that, who actually knows what the rules are, are there even rules.

Boxing is a shambolic mess.

[Ilya Muromets]

More silky talk - little or nothing will change.
...

Yep.

http://www.newsreportonline.com/inquiry ... ommission/


They are talking about the tragic Abdusalamov case - and NYS boxing commissioner Melvina Lathan was in attendance sitting on her fat ass - and like James Mc. says above, "boxing is a shambolic mess" . I had to look up shambolic but that's what it is - plus very very very corrupt, which it has been since its inception.

[RScarf1]

He says judges must always be from neutral countries, but the WBC uses judges from Mexico. They have done so recently in world title fights. Why does the WBC think they are so righteous? His periodic "The 12th Round" articles are biased just like the judges in Mexico. Open scoring doesn't mean anything. It actually helps the Mexican boxer because then he/she knows that he/she has a lead on the scorecards. It doesn't work. It gives transparency so we all know how the biased judges are scoring during the fight. The WBC also uses judges from other countries, but they are usually biased as well because maybe they are being paid under the table or they feel obliged to score in favor of the Mexican so they are called back for future judging assignments. He rejects any claim of fraud or corruption in the scoring of fights. He is either naive or full of bull crap and I don't think he is naive. Boxing deserves better from the WBC. The BC stands for Bull Crap.

[jamesmcdonnell]

More silky talk - little or nothing will change.
...

Yep.

http://www.newsreportonline.com/inquiry ... ommission/


They are talking about the tragic Abdusalamov case - and NYS boxing commissioner Melvina Lathan was in attendance sitting on her fat ass - and like James Mc. says above, "boxing is a shambolic mess" . I had to look up shambolic but that's what it is - plus very very very corrupt, which it has been since its inception.

I actually think boxing is more shambolic than it is corrupt, at least in the sense of overt pre-meditated corruption. Obviously there are lots of competing vested interests which hold boxing back, but I don't think that 'the fix' is a common problem. It's more the nefarious influence of promoters, governing bodies, managers etc, which cause many judges and refs to favour the house fighter, I'm not sure it's even conscious most of the time, but it definitely happens again and again.

[AntonS]

Yup! Junior Sulaiman will make WBC great again, albeit promoters & combatants rule

[littlepug]

More silky talk - little or nothing will change.
...

Yep.

http://www.newsreportonline.com/inquiry ... ommission/


They are talking about the tragic Abdusalamov case - and NYS boxing commissioner Melvina Lathan was in attendance sitting on her fat ass - and like James Mc. says above, "boxing is a shambolic mess" . I had to look up shambolic but that's what it is - plus very very very corrupt, which it has been since its inception.

thought the whole Abdusalamov situation was disgusting, not a good advert for the sport when thats how we treat our injured boxers, wlad klit was also in the house as it was his promotion, but out of sight out of mind eh ? last i heard Abdusalamov was completely helpess, penniless and living in a 2 bed apartment with his wife and 3 kids.

[tiny_acres]

Boxing is in huge trouble if we expect the alphabet groups to fix it

[jamesmcdonnell]

More silky talk - little or nothing will change.
...

Yep.

http://www.newsreportonline.com/inquiry ... ommission/


They are talking about the tragic Abdusalamov case - and NYS boxing commissioner Melvina Lathan was in attendance sitting on her fat ass - and like James Mc. says above, "boxing is a shambolic mess" . I had to look up shambolic but that's what it is - plus very very very corrupt, which it has been since its inception.

thought the whole Abdusalamov situation was disgusting, not a good advert for the sport when thats how we treat our injured boxers, wlad klit was also in the house as it was his promotion, but out of sight out of mind eh ? last i heard Abdusalamov was completely helpess, penniless and living in a 2 bed apartment with his wife and 3 kids.

It's pretty disgraceful when you consider how much money there is in the sport at the top level, that there's no safety net for injured fighters.

[Ilya Muromets]

More silky talk - little or nothing will change.
...

Yep.

http://www.newsreportonline.com/inquiry ... ommission/


They are talking about the tragic Abdusalamov case - and NYS boxing commissioner Melvina Lathan was in attendance sitting on her fat ass - and like James Mc. says above, "boxing is a shambolic mess" . I had to look up shambolic but that's what it is - plus very very very corrupt, which it has been since its inception.

thought the whole Abdusalamov situation was disgusting, not a good advert for the sport when thats how we treat our injured boxers, wlad klit was also in the house as it was his promotion, but out of sight out of mind eh ? last i heard Abdusalamov was completely helpess, penniless and living in a 2 bed apartment with his wife and 3 kids.

Sad news:

Mago's condition has worsened

http://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/id/1 ... n-worsened

[Ilya Muromets]

More silky talk - little or nothing will change.
...

Yep.

http://www.newsreportonline.com/inquiry ... ommission/


They are talking about the tragic Abdusalamov case - and NYS boxing commissioner Melvina Lathan was in attendance sitting on her fat ass - and like James Mc. says above, "boxing is a shambolic mess" . I had to look up shambolic but that's what it is - plus very very very corrupt, which it has been since its inception.

I actually think boxing is more shambolic than it is corrupt, at least in the sense of overt pre-meditated corruption. Obviously there are lots of competing vested interests which hold boxing back, but I don't think that 'the fix' is a common problem. It's more the nefarious influence of promoters, governing bodies, managers etc, which cause many judges and refs to favour the house fighter, I'm not sure it's even conscious most of the time, but it definitely happens again and again.

Boxing has been a corrupt sport going back to its beginning when it was illegal and consequently run by outlaws. It is a violent sport that attracts the interest of criminals, and it is a very easy sport to fix. You can ask the other guy not try too hard or take a dive by making him an offer he can't refuse, or even easier getting your own guy to do the same. Judges, refs, tv announcers, just a few people to have cooperate, and they are all part of the network anyway. They will do as they are asked to do if they ever want to get work anymore, or worse. Las Vegas itself is a city founded by the mob and run by the mob and its credo is soak the saps, never give a sucker an even break. That applies to boxing too.

[Ilya Muromets]

More silky talk - little or nothing will change.
...

Yep.

http://www.newsreportonline.com/inquiry ... ommission/


They are talking about the tragic Abdusalamov case - and NYS boxing commissioner Melvina Lathan was in attendance sitting on her fat ass - and like James Mc. says above, "boxing is a shambolic mess" . I had to look up shambolic but that's what it is - plus very very very corrupt, which it has been since its inception.

thought the whole Abdusalamov situation was disgusting, not a good advert for the sport when thats how we treat our injured boxers, wlad klit was also in the house as it was his promotion, but out of sight out of mind eh ? last i heard Abdusalamov was completely helpess, penniless and living in a 2 bed apartment with his wife and 3 kids.

Was Wlad actually in attendance? I know it was his show. Horrible horrible thing. They all should have been punished especially the so called doctor. They gave him a piece of paper and said "exit in the back, maybe you might want to go to the hospital, bye bye." They didn't even speak English. They got sent out into a totally unfamiliar city, crowded midtown Manhattan. They couldn't even hail a cab. Mago started throwing up. Finally a stranger let them have the cab he had hailed. They went to the hospital and then they made them wait on line there.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Yep.

http://www.newsreportonline.com/inquiry ... ommission/


They are talking about the tragic Abdusalamov case - and NYS boxing commissioner Melvina Lathan was in attendance sitting on her fat ass - and like James Mc. says above, "boxing is a shambolic mess" . I had to look up shambolic but that's what it is - plus very very very corrupt, which it has been since its inception.

I actually think boxing is more shambolic than it is corrupt, at least in the sense of overt pre-meditated corruption. Obviously there are lots of competing vested interests which hold boxing back, but I don't think that 'the fix' is a common problem. It's more the nefarious influence of promoters, governing bodies, managers etc, which cause many judges and refs to favour the house fighter, I'm not sure it's even conscious most of the time, but it definitely happens again and again.

Boxing has been a corrupt sport going back to its beginning when it was illegal and consequently run by outlaws. It is a violent sport that attracts the interest of criminals, and it is a very easy sport to fix. You can ask the other guy not try too hard or take a dive by making him an offer he can't refuse, or even easier getting your own guy to do the same. Judges, refs, tv announcers, just a few people to have cooperate, and they are all part of the network anyway. They will do as they are asked to do if they ever want to get work anymore, or worse. Las Vegas itself is a city founded by the mob and run by the mob and its credo is soak the saps, never give a sucker an even break. That applies to boxing too.

I think that outright fixes are far less common that people think, there's some interesting writing on the subject, I can't remember where I read it, it was from a former mob boss from the 1920's who was interviewed many years later, and he said that back in the really bad old days, fixes were not common, because it was saved for the occasional huge event - interestingly, the same mob boss said that there were a couple of really huge historical fights which were outright fixes.

I think there are far more subtle and pervasive forms of bias in the sport.

[littlepug]

Yep.

http://www.newsreportonline.com/inquiry ... ommission/


They are talking about the tragic Abdusalamov case - and NYS boxing commissioner Melvina Lathan was in attendance sitting on her fat ass - and like James Mc. says above, "boxing is a shambolic mess" . I had to look up shambolic but that's what it is - plus very very very corrupt, which it has been since its inception.

thought the whole Abdusalamov situation was disgusting, not a good advert for the sport when thats how we treat our injured boxers, wlad klit was also in the house as it was his promotion, but out of sight out of mind eh ? last i heard Abdusalamov was completely helpess, penniless and living in a 2 bed apartment with his wife and 3 kids.

Was Wlad actually in attendance? I know it was his show. Horrible horrible thing. They all should have been punished especially the so called doctor. They gave him a piece of paper and said "exit in the back, maybe you might want to go to the hospital, bye bye." They didn't even speak English. They got sent out into a totally unfamiliar city, crowded midtown Manhattan. They couldn't even hail a cab. Mago started throwing up. Finally a stranger let them have the cab he had hailed. They went to the hospital and then they made them wait on line there.

wlad was there at ringside

[Ilya Muromets]

I actually think boxing is more shambolic than it is corrupt, at least in the sense of overt pre-meditated corruption. Obviously there are lots of competing vested interests which hold boxing back, but I don't think that 'the fix' is a common problem. It's more the nefarious influence of promoters, governing bodies, managers etc, which cause many judges and refs to favour the house fighter, I'm not sure it's even conscious most of the time, but it definitely happens again and again.

Boxing has been a corrupt sport going back to its beginning when it was illegal and consequently run by outlaws. It is a violent sport that attracts the interest of criminals, and it is a very easy sport to fix. You can ask the other guy not try too hard or take a dive by making him an offer he can't refuse, or even easier getting your own guy to do the same. Judges, refs, tv announcers, just a few people to have cooperate, and they are all part of the network anyway. They will do as they are asked to do if they ever want to get work anymore, or worse. Las Vegas itself is a city founded by the mob and run by the mob and its credo is soak the saps, never give a sucker an even break. That applies to boxing too.

I think that outright fixes are far less common that people think, there's some interesting writing on the subject, I can't remember where I read it, it was from a former mob boss from the 1920's who was interviewed many years later, and he said that back in the really bad old days, fixes were not common, because it was saved for the occasional huge event - interestingly, the same mob boss said that there were a couple of really huge historical fights which were outright fixes.

I think there are far more subtle and pervasive forms of bias in the sport.

I think both.

[Ilya Muromets]

I think that outright fixes are far less common that people think, there's some interesting writing on the subject, I can't remember where I read it, it was from a former mob boss from the 1920's who was interviewed many years later, and he said that back in the really bad old days, fixes were not common, because it was saved for the occasional huge event - interestingly, the same mob boss said that there were a couple of really huge historical fights which were outright fixes.

I think there are far more subtle and pervasive forms of bias in the sport.

I know about some of them. I was just an amateur boxer but I had some old time NYC trainers who had been in the business for a long time. They told me some stories.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I think that outright fixes are far less common that people think, there's some interesting writing on the subject, I can't remember where I read it, it was from a former mob boss from the 1920's who was interviewed many years later, and he said that back in the really bad old days, fixes were not common, because it was saved for the occasional huge event - interestingly, the same mob boss said that there were a couple of really huge historical fights which were outright fixes.

I think there are far more subtle and pervasive forms of bias in the sport.

I know about some of them. I was just an amateur boxer but I had some old time NYC trainers who had been in the business for a long time. They told me some stories.

One I heard rumoured was Marciano v Walcott, which is odd, given how it ended.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Boxing has been a corrupt sport going back to its beginning when it was illegal and consequently run by outlaws. It is a violent sport that attracts the interest of criminals, and it is a very easy sport to fix. You can ask the other guy not try too hard or take a dive by making him an offer he can't refuse, or even easier getting your own guy to do the same. Judges, refs, tv announcers, just a few people to have cooperate, and they are all part of the network anyway. They will do as they are asked to do if they ever want to get work anymore, or worse. Las Vegas itself is a city founded by the mob and run by the mob and its credo is soak the saps, never give a sucker an even break. That applies to boxing too.

I think that outright fixes are far less common that people think, there's some interesting writing on the subject, I can't remember where I read it, it was from a former mob boss from the 1920's who was interviewed many years later, and he said that back in the really bad old days, fixes were not common, because it was saved for the occasional huge event - interestingly, the same mob boss said that there were a couple of really huge historical fights which were outright fixes.

I think there are far more subtle and pervasive forms of bias in the sport.

I think both.

I think the biggest problem is the collusion between promoter and networks, they effectively are the sport, the boxing commissions work with the promoters who bring the most money, and skim off the top, but the promoter and the networks are the ones who put up all the money. They have very powerful vested interests, and their influence unduly affects the sport.