NOW THE DUST HAS SETTLED - CALZAGHE V LACY

Wrists · Post by **Wrists** » 06 Mar 2006, 15:58

I have deliberately waited for a couple of days before writing this as I have been on a high and wanted my ramblings to be rational rather than the up a height version I would have given yesterday

People on here will know I am a Calzaghe believer and I have had good crack with the likes of J and jamesmc about the virutes of Joe etc etc etc

I know hindsight is great but I always believed Calzaghe was too good for Lacy and I am glad I was right.

I think sometimes people's dislike or frustration with a fighter sometimes makes them overlook their skills as a fighter - I think many on here have been guilty of that with Joe.

I made a concious effort to look at this fight totally impartially and every time I came up with the same conclusion - Joe wins every time.

I asked the question how does Lacy beat Joe?? - Many on here said Joe was a faded fighter - on the back of what?? Many say the 2nd Veit fight was proof that Joe was on the slide, to me this was borne of frustration that Joe was fighting a guy he had beaten rather than a rational view of the fight.

People said that if Salem could knock Joe down and Mitchell the same then Lacy would KO him - again on what basis, Lacy's record is built up of knockouts against fighters 1 even 2 levels down from anyone Calzaghe had fought, a win over a shot Robin Reid does not legend make yet people reacted that this was the second coming of Tyson.

Joe (and I know hindsight is great) had the proven chin, proven boxing skills had beaten better fighters and had the experience and home advantage (although joes beats Lacy anywhere)

I could see no other outcome

Some of the stuff written about Joe has been shameful and I am so glad he rammed a lot of critics rubbish down there throats (I only mean about 0.5% of people on here when i say that)

Joe was nothing short of SENSATIONAL and I now hope he gets the crdit he deserves as apart from PBF, Winky and maybe Barrera Joe is the next best fighter in the sport.

In my mind the only guy (and if people read old threads they will see I have always said this) who stands a chance against Calzaghe is Tarver and I would make Joe the favourite right now.

Thanks Joe - brilliant fight, brilliant fighter

Cheers

Wrists

PS. Intelligent comments only please lol!!

lvlarc · Post by **lvlarc** » 06 Mar 2006, 16:04

Nice post

I just downloaded the showtime version to watch as ITV were cutting to commercial breaks in between rounds and this is what Calzaghe said in corner of 2nd round.

"He cant punch shit, he cant punch shit, he aint fornicate all hes shit"

If you aint seen showtime version you should get it

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 06 Mar 2006, 16:08

Hand-selected, limited opponent - like all the others JC has fought in the past 10 years. Doesn't tell much.

Cheers

P

Wrists · Post by **Wrists** » 06 Mar 2006, 16:09

Good stuff!!

Apologies to Manny pacquiao!!

Joe is 5 pfp not 4!!!

1. PBF
2. Winky
3. Manny
4. Barrera
5. Calzaghe
6. Hatton
7. Taylor
8. Tarver
9. Morales
10. Hopkins

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 06 Mar 2006, 16:10

1. PBF
2. Winky
3. Manny
4. Barrera
55. Calzaghe
6. Hatton
7. Taylor
8. Tarver
9. Morales
10. Hopkins

About right....

mattyp151 · Post by **mattyp151** » 06 Mar 2006, 16:10

Wrists wrote:Good stuff!!

Apologies to Manny pacquiao!!

Joe is 5 pfp not 4!!!

1. PBF
2. Winky
3. Manny
4. Barrera
5. Calzaghe
6. Hatton
7. Taylor
8. Tarver
9. Morales
10. Hopkins

Still not seeing how a win over the obviously limited Lacy propels Joe to #5 P4P when Lacy wasn't on many people's lists.

Wrists · Post by **Wrists** » 06 Mar 2006, 16:11

P - bit harsh to say hand selected

Lacy was the best available and I agree was over hyped but was the best fighter available to Joe

should move up to 175 nothing to prove at 168 now

fight

Tarver
Woods
Erdei
the guy who beat Briggs (cant spell his name)

only go to 168 to fight kessler

Wrists · Post by **Wrists** » 06 Mar 2006, 16:13

40-0 champion for nearly 9 years

just beaten the fighter recognised as 'the man' at his weight

thats why he is no. 5 pfp

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 06 Mar 2006, 16:13

Wrists wrote:P - bit harsh to say hand selected

Lacy was the best available and I agree was over hyped but was the best fighter available to Joe

The best available was Kessler.

Lacy was the one beltholder available whose style was taylor-made for JC. Which is why Warren selected him.

should move up to 175 nothing to prove at 168 now

Everything still to prove at 168. But JC will move to 175 to avoid Kessler.

P

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 06 Mar 2006, 16:15

Wrists wrote:40-0 champion for nearly 9 years

just beaten the fighter recognised as 'the man' at his weight

thats why he is no. 5 pfp

No. 55 perhaps.

mattyp151 · Post by **mattyp151** » 06 Mar 2006, 16:15

Wrists wrote:P - bit harsh to say hand selected

Lacy was the best available and I agree was over hyped but was the best fighter available to Joe

should move up to 175 nothing to prove at 168 now

fight

Tarver
Woods
Erdei
the guy who beat Briggs (cant spell his name)

only go to 168 to fight kessler

He has stuff to prove at 168. There are still two other guys who claim major titles, and he's talking about trying to unify for 9 years, well, here ya go. The worst move for him would be to move up to LHW and abandon the division he's been on top of for 8 years only to leave work to be done behind.

Erdei has a fight coming in June, Adamek has a mandatory with Briggs I believe, Tarver is getting in with Hopkins in June, and Woods is not even worth the effort at LHW, and would do nothing for Joe's career. If Joe were to fight any of them it wouldn't be until at least November. However, he's sitting there with Kessler and Beyer waiting for their next fights...it's too simple to see what he should do.

Wrists · Post by **Wrists** » 06 Mar 2006, 16:15

Why can't people gave credit where its due!!

80% of boxing people picked LACY and Joe spanked the granny out of him

yet people again will not gave the man credit

who has Kessler beaten??

Joe is done at 168 simple as

let me guess?? - Bet you thought Hatton 'hugged' his way to victory against Tsyzu??

Wrists · Post by **Wrists** » 06 Mar 2006, 16:17

Fair enough Matty - take on board what you say

My point is Joe has 3/4 fights left before he quits

his legacy is better when he beats Tarver, Johnson etc

not Kessler or Beyer (to me Beyer is an awful fight)

But can see where you are coming from................ to a degree

lvlarc · Post by **lvlarc** » 06 Mar 2006, 16:17

Mine would be someting like this.

1. Pacman
2. PBF
3. Castillo
4 Calzaghe
5 Winner of Wright Vs Taylor
6 Hatton
7 Barrera
8. Tarver
9. Hopkins
10 Morales

Wrists · Post by **Wrists** » 06 Mar 2006, 16:19

Castillo - decent shout

just outside my top 10 but a great fighter

Anyone else still think Froch beats Joe??

Jaime Garza · Post by **Jaime Garza** » 06 Mar 2006, 16:20

Surely, if the art of boxing is to hit and not get hit Calzaghe was near pefection. Bearing in mind his age and the injuries he has had I would say that i dont know of a fighter active toady who has ever put in a single performance as good as that. You are only as good as your last fight. For me Calzaghe is no1 pound for pound.

mattyp151 · Post by **mattyp151** » 06 Mar 2006, 16:21

Wrists wrote:Fair enough Matty - take on board what you say

My point is Joe has 3/4 fights left before he quits

his legacy is better when he beats Tarver, Johnson etc

not Kessler or Beyer (to me Beyer is an awful fight)

But can see where you are coming from................ to a degree

His legacy won't be helped by Tarver as much as it would by totally unifying the class he's been in since day 1. No one likes Tarver, honest to god, no one, so I don't think he carries the respect that would cement a legacy. Johnson has a heart of gold and is a true professional, but he's been beaten 10 times, so it's not like he's thought of as a World Beater either. I just think that since Joe has staked his claim at 168, he should finish the work he started.

I typed my top 10 somewhere, I'll jsut have to find it.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 06 Mar 2006, 16:21

Wrists wrote:Why can't people gave credit where its due!!
80% of boxing people picked LACY and Joe spanked the granny out of him

I didn't for my part. Lacy looked too obviously like a copy of Mitchell. Big, strong, one-dimensional.

yet people again will not gave the man credit

For beating a hand-selected, taylor-made, over-hyped opponent?

Well, I give him a little bit credit. But he has to do far more to convince me - fighting someone with a style that does NOT suit him would be a starter.

who has Kessler beaten??

Mundine in Australia for starters.

Joe is done at 168 simple as [/quote]

He is not.
If he moves to 175 now it's obvious that he avoids Kessler.

let me guess?? - Bet you thought Hatton 'hugged' his way to victory against Tsyzu??

Hatton beat the best and most dangerous man in his weighclass. And fired Warren in order to get his hands on the real challenges. Totally different stoy.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 06 Mar 2006, 16:29

lvlarc_uk wrote:Mine would be someting like this.

1. Pacman
2. PBF
3. Castillo
44 Calzaghe
5 Winner of Wright Vs Taylor
6 Hatton
7 Barrera
8. Tarver
9. Hopkins
10 Morales

Joe at # 44? So high?

lvlarc · Post by **lvlarc** » 06 Mar 2006, 16:30

You are a funny guy I'll give you that

Wrists · Post by **Wrists** » 06 Mar 2006, 16:30

Lacy was the most dangerous in his weight class - this is not my opinion but the opinion of the vast majority

I ask again who has Kessler beaten?? - please dont give me Mundine he is not great at all!!

Lacy was not hand picked - he was the media proclaimed 'man' at 168

I accept Hattons win is better - my point was you dont seem to give credit where its due

bet you think Vitali was robbed against Lennox??

mattyp151 · Post by **mattyp151** » 06 Mar 2006, 16:36

Wrists wrote:Lacy was the most dangerous in his weight class - this is not my opinion but the opinion of the vast majority

I ask again who has Kessler beaten?? - please dont give me Mundine he is not great at all!!

Lacy was not hand picked - he was the media proclaimed 'man' at 168

I accept Hattons win is better - my point was you dont seem to give credit where its due

bet you think Vitali was robbed against Lennox??

Lacy certainly was the most dangerous, but dangerous doesn't equal the best. After Saturday, it is now painfully obvious where he lacks in terms of boxing talents. The vast majority, I'll agree, said he was dangerous, but he obviously was easily neutralized when fought correctly.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 06 Mar 2006, 16:36

Wrists wrote:Lacy was the most dangerous in his weight class - this is not my opinion but the opinion of the vast majority

It's not my opinion and never was

I ask again who has Kessler beaten?? - please dont give me Mundine he is not great at all!!

I give you exactly that. Mundine in Australia. In my books this is more than beating Lacy in Wales.

Lacy was not hand picked - he was the media proclaimed 'man' at 168

He was. Joe's hand-picked opponnent # 41.

Are you guys blind? Don't you know after umteenth years how Warren matchmaking works? If they had thought Lacy could beat JC, the fight would never have come about. In fact, I have a certain grudging respect for how FW has handled this. Wait ten long years until a beltholder comes a long who JC will surely beat, and never lose patience in this entire period.

I accept Hattons win is better - my point was you dont seem to give credit where its due
bet you think Vitali was robbed against Lennox??

No. The fight had to be stopped, but it was a pity. Lennox-Vitali was the best heavyweight fight in years, and it will take a long time till we get a similar one.

More generally, LL - like Hatton - was a great champion who went for the real challenges.

Wrists · Post by **Wrists** » 06 Mar 2006, 16:41

You can argue all you want - Lacy WAS NOT handpicked he was the best fight out there at the weight and Joe sapnked him end off

give credit where its due instead of sounding bitter cos a non american put on a masterclass

if that was winky or PBF you would be on here barely able to contain yourself

KO Artist · Post by **KO Artist** » 06 Mar 2006, 16:45

Mattyp151 wrote:
Wrists wrote:Lacy was the most dangerous in his weight class - this is not my opinion but the opinion of the vast majority

I ask again who has Kessler beaten?? - please dont give me Mundine he is not great at all!!

Lacy was not hand picked - he was the media proclaimed 'man' at 168

I accept Hattons win is better - my point was you dont seem to give credit where its due

bet you think Vitali was robbed against Lennox??
Lacy certainly was the most dangerous, but dangerous doesn't equal the best. After Saturday, it is now painfully obvious where he lacks in terms of boxing talents. The vast majority, I'll agree, said he was dangerous, but he obviously was easily neutralized when fought correctly.

Mke your mind up. On 27th Feb you said this about the matchup

"Calzaghe also hasn't fought a fighter as good as Lacy yet either. He suits his style now, but I bet once the first good shot from Jeff catches Joe C., he'll change his tune real quick. I don't think this fight comes too early at all. He's always been a fighter, and won't sit there and take time off when he doesn't need too. Calzaghe has been fighting so-so fighters as of late, not that Lacy is blowing people out of the water with his challenges, but I think Joe is ripe for the picking. He's been on top long enough, and he's already said he's thinking about going to LHW after this fight. That way, he's already setting up an excuse on no rematch, win or lose. He loses, he'll say he was to caught up in the possible weight class change, and he wins, he'll say he already stated he's moving up, so there will be no rematch."

Stop making excuses for Calzaghes brilliance and scour the gyms of the US to find a challenger who belongs in the same ring as JC

For Lacy's sake there better not be a rematch. He deserves to keep his faculties.