Marciano vs Wilt Chamberlain

[keithmoonhangover]

One guy is an undefeated boxing legend, the other is Rocky Marciano.

Who you got and why?

[BoxBuzz]

Rocky has the advantage size wise.....no way Wilt can reach him unless he's humped way over, making him a sitting duck for the ol' Suzy Q.

Rocky would just stay in side the bird cage, and skeletor would be tied into knots.

[Kalan]

Marciano had an amateur career of 9-4... and a perfectly choreographed pro career when everything was perfectly managed and controlled by the mob... He never fought a very good prime Heavyweight did him??? And never fought a big one over 210.. Chamberlain went 290 and was super fast.

So if Chamberlain had 6 months to train with the world’s greatest trainer, and 16 Marciano sized sparring partners -- so he always had fresh swingers to brutalize -- you’d have to give it to Wilt to win easily.. The difficulty Rocky would have reaching Wilt’s chin Would be brutal – and one lightning fast right hand crusher from Wilt would split Marciano’s little head like a melon.

The gloves they used in the 50’s were 8 ounces.. When you custom craft 8 oz gloves for a size 23 fist there’s less thickness of padding covering the much larger striking surface of the fists.. The smaller the fist, the more padding on the knuckles if they’re custom made gloves.. Floyd Patterson revealed.. “When Sonny Liston hit me it was like nothing I ever felt in my life.. It felt almost like a bare fist smashing my head off.”
Chamberlain’s fists were 5 sizes larger than Liston’s---who needed custom made gloves because his hands were so damned big.

[davie]

One guy is an undefeated boxing legend, the other is Rocky Marciano.

Who you got and why?

Why?
Just why?

Did Buzz pay you to start this thread?

[Kalan]

Rocky has the advantage size wise.....no way Wilt can reach him unless he's humped way over, making him a sitting duck for the ol' Suzy Q.

Rocky would just stay in side the bird cage, and skeletor would be tied into knots.

He would be singing tweety birds inside that spinning bird cage... and feathers would fill the air...

Chamberlain was only 14 inches taller than Marciano... Rocky wasn't 2 feet tall so that Wilt would have to bend over to reach him with his 101" reach... How does a tall guy smash his opponent with a liver shot??? Since the liver is a couple feet down??? How did Bob Foster cold cock Dick Tiger who was 8 inches shorter??? BuzzBox you're so ridiculous sometimes I think you never put your brain into gear.

[gilgamesh]

I think the Wilt Chamberlain joke has run it's course

[Kalan]

It certainly was NOT a joke for Wilt Chamberlain.. Wilt had an unbelievable ego...the 20,000 and all that.. When Wilt told the media he'd love to fight Ali and win the Heavyweight Boxing Championship of the World, he KNEW it would be a major story and taken seriously.. He KNEW he as the only athlete in the world outside of Boxing who'd be taken extremely seriously if he made such a challenge.. He KNEW the press would run with the story and Ali would be forced to respond.

Wilt didn't wake up one morning and say "I want to fight Ali." Other people: friends, strangers, and many professional athletes such as Jimmy Brown and Bill Russell suggested the idea to Chamberlain for many years.. Folks would say, "Wilt, with your phenomenal height, weight, reach, size, power, strength, reflexes, and speed, I bet you could be Heavyweight Champion of the World." NFL great Jimmy Brown in particular thought it would be a great idea, and people often suggested that Brown could be Heavyweight Champion. But Brown would say, “Not me. My right wrist gives me problems from stiff arming so many tacklers, otherwise I’d check it out -- but I bet Wilt Chamberlain could beat any man alive in a fist fight. He’s probably the best athlete in the world. He’s so damned big, strong, fast, and tough that I don’t see anybody who could possibly beat him.”

Many big guys only got into Boxing on the suggestion of others, but Chamberlain was an actual fan of Boxing. But he could never get anyone to box with him more than once, even Floyd Patterson. Obviously if you’re going to hurt people you have to pay them. But if you get a big enough fight you get a million in training expenses so Wilt could set up an elaborate camp and get all the sparring he needed. Jack Kent Cooke, who owned the Lakers would front the training expenses, but it needed to be the 6 mo nths of the off season. Cooke knew it would be big for the Lakers as well, especially if Wilt won, and he knew Chamberlain was hide-bound to do it. Floyd Patterson's trainer Cus D'Amato, and other top trainers were set to train Chamberlain.. A contract was negotiated and drawn up.. and Ali and Chamberlain had plenty of copies.. Wilt signed.. All that was needed was Ali's signature.

Ali and Wilt did a well received promotional tour and everything was shaping up.. Then came what you see in the video below.. Ali refused to sign..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s

[davie]

Right I'm going to try this another way, it's destined to fail but I can only try, for the sake of the forum.

Kalan, I'm making a direct appeal to you.
People continue to bait you over Wilt, we've pleaded with them not to (I've been guilty myself, it's just too damn easy) but people seem intent on dragging this shit out over and over for their own amusement.

So Kalan, can I ask you, please stop biting to every mention of Wilt Chamberlain?
Please!
For the sake of the board.
Just let it slide, they're only looking for a response and you're playing into their evil hands.
I'm asking because the argument is nonsensical.
But even if I'm to play devils advocate here and say you're probably right, Wilt beats them all, can't you just stop and think.....
"there is no other way I can frame this argument, no other angle I can come at this from.
I've proven them wrong so many times. I've pointed out the obvious over and over and over. I've typed a million words and drummed it in to them time and again.
He's bigger!
He's stronger !
He has an advantage in reach and great athleticism!
He likes boxing more than Muhammad Ali!
What can these dullards not understand?"

It's maybe us, maybe we just don't see it and we never will. Maybe we do not have that vision to see outside the box and understand the greatness that could have been Wilt the heavyweight champion of the world.
We have been conditioned and brainwashed into thinking what HBO wants us to think.

It's maybe one of these arguments you just have to drop because us mere mortals will never be able to understand no matter how many times you try to bash it through our thick skulls.

So when someone starts the inevitable Foreman/Frazier/Norton/Holmes vs Wilt thread next month, just walk on by Kalan. It's either the work of a devious internet troll or some unenlightened soul who just hasn't got the insight you have into the sport.

But whatever the case may be.... Give it a fornicating rest will you?

[Kalan]

Why don't YOU give it a rest if you don't like it??? ... I would ignore it if I were you davie.

But since you're so interested, the fact IS Boxing is NOT like any other sport... It's NOT a merit based sport like other sports -- otherwise Gennady Golovkin would have gotten the top Middleweights in the world into a ring 6 or 7 years ago... Gary Russell would have gotten Santa Cruz, Cuellar, Mares, Frampton, and Selby into a ring by now... Lomachenko would have no problem lining up the other 130-pound champions... Rigondeaux would have gotten the top super bantams into a ring... Kovalev would still be LHW Champion and would have gotten Chickenson into a ring several years ago

But in Boxing you don't have to fight anyone... You DON'T have to fight the most logical or publicly demanded opponents.. This is one thing Chamberlain DIDN'T consider when he took up the task of trying to get Ali into a ring... He thought public pressure would force Ali to take the fight and the whole thing would steamroll until Ali as forced to sign the contract that their legal teams negotiated... He never expected this (see video) to go on for many weeks without any results... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s

[keithmoonhangover]

and 16 Marciano sized sparring partners.

I think 15 is enough.

[keithmoonhangover]

Marciano had an amateur career of 9-4....

Well said Kalan. Wilt didn't lose a single second of a single round as an amateur.

[BitPlayer]

Marciano because he's, ya know, a boxer.

[Kalan]

Right... And not a skilled one... And not a big one... And not a tall one...Certainly not an athletic one... Not a fast one... And not an evasive one...

And with 6 months of training could Wilt Chamberlain become skilled enough to take advantage of all those negative traits Rocky had??? ... Of course... One smashing right would do it... I was a raw novice with only maybe 50 rounds of sparring, and only a couple months of working the mitts, the bags, and shadow boxing to get some kind of defense, movement, footwork, and punching form going before that.

I sparred with a Light Heavyweight who had over 40 pro fights.. He started calling me names and started beating the holy crap out of me.. I knocked him stiff with a quick left hook.. I didn't expect him to go down like that, but that's what happens when you rip a shot like you've been taught and you hit something.. Everybody said it was an accident, but I absorbed his best and he couldn't take mine., Next time we boxed he said, "Lets work real light okay??? I'm a fking Light Heavyweight dude." He's right. That wouldn't happen with a big Heavyweight, a novice couldn't hang.

So if you take an impossibly talented athlete who's 7'1" X 290 and teach him who to box, move, defend, step, and rip shots like a pro for 6 months -- and match him with a short, slow, squat, clumsy, wide open and not too clever swinger like Rocky who never really fought anybody in his career??? And who's only 5'11 X 184??? ... For me, the boxer may not even show up on fight night.. "Ahh my hand. I think it's broken. I hate this ... but we'll have to call it off."

Just like Ali came to his senses as we see here ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s

[Tomasino]

And so the insanity begins anew

[keithmoonhangover]

Right... And not a skilled one... And not a big one... And not a tall one...Certainly not an athletic one... Not a fast one... And not an evasive one...

A successful boxer is a skilled one. If you win then you're skilled, no matter what your style is. Marciano had fantastic boxing skills. There are no points for artistic merit.

Obviously Wilt had far superior boxing skills than Marciano, so please accept my apologies if I have not made that clear.

[Controversial]

Right... And not a skilled one... And not a big one... And not a tall one...Certainly not an athletic one... Not a fast one... And not an evasive one...

Kalan, name some fighters you think could beat Chamberlain.

[gp.]

Right... And not a skilled one... And not a big one... And not a tall one...Certainly not an athletic one... Not a fast one... And not an evasive one...

Kalan, name some fighters you think could beat Chamberlain.

Too Tall Jones. Long Tall Sally. Officer Hightower from the Police Academy movies.

[Tomasino]

Right... And not a skilled one... And not a big one... And not a tall one...Certainly not an athletic one... Not a fast one... And not an evasive one...

Kalan, name some fighters you think could beat Chamberlain.

Too Tall Jones. Long Tall Sally. Officer Hightower from the Police Academy movies.

Hightower is chronicly underrated on this forum man.

[keithmoonhangover]

Right... And not a skilled one... And not a big one... And not a tall one...Certainly not an athletic one... Not a fast one... And not an evasive one...

Kalan, name some fighters you think could beat Chamberlain.

I'm guessing Joshua and the Klitschkos.

[Kalan]

Right... And not a skilled one... And not a big one... And not a tall one...Certainly not an athletic one... Not a fast one... And not an evasive one...

Kalan, name some fighters you think could beat Chamberlain.

Somebody would beat him.. There had to be a couple in history who could do it..

With only 6 months to train and what the Ali contract called for??? AJ maybe could beat him... Lewis would need to be on his P's and Q's. Because right hands got to LL and jabs could also rip Lewis because he wasn't used to fighting big fast guys... I think Wilt Chamberlain smashes Nic Valuev in a battle of a stumbling slowpoke vs a super athlete. I don't see NV lasting a round... David Haye is very fast. The same height as Ali but bigger and stronger with savage punching power. A defense 10 X better and trains much harder. But I think he'd be too reluctant to engage and get outpointed... Wladimir wouldn't come in. Wlad has no balls. He'd give the fight away like he did with Fury... Fury might beat Wilt, but he's a mental and emotional basketcase. Fury doesn't take care of himself and doesn't train. He's a born boxer with natural instincts, but soft mentally and physically. He has no strength for a man his size. Fury needs a shrink and he's a waste of air... George Foreman was in unbelievable shape for his Frazier fight. He was ripped to shreds and hands were quick. He was sharp on the draw. What if George trained consistently. Didn't get fat between fights. Had the mentality of a boxer and developed his jab in his 20's rather than his 40's? Didn't take 10 years off. Foreman might have been able to deal with anybody if he had someone like Jack Blackburn for a coach from day one.

[BoxBuzz]

Kalan the long winded appeals of those begging you to speak no more of Chamberlain, is the only thing funnier than your exuberance on the issue.

Now I'm here to moderate (and of course my importance can not be overstated).....and one of the most effective ways of moderation is to ask all of you who hate this subject, to simply bypass it on the road of life.

Those interested, by all means drop by and have your chuckles.

Those who imagine it to be interesting enough to comment on....please have your civil say.


Now....if Kalan was threatening someone or imposing harm, I'd be right there, putting the brakes on.
But it sounds like the only damage that could emanate from this, is that someone could be bored to death, or laugh themselves into a hernial crises.
Or worry themselves into a frenzy over the potential harm Wilt MAY have presented to the best boxers of his day.

So, No harm, no damage, and let's not get into the business of being brain police. Frank Zappa would be unhappy.


And since this is merely imagining the hypothetical, we are safely out of the bounds of those on the warpath of "fake news".


If you fall into the group of people who MUST READ things they don't like.....I'm afraid I can't protect you from yourself.

Remember....this is a boxing forum....I advise you to protect yourself at all times.

[Kalan]

Right... And not a skilled one... And not a big one... And not a tall one...Certainly not an athletic one... Not a fast one... And not an evasive one...

A successful boxer is a skilled one. If you win then you're skilled, no matter what your style is. Marciano had fantastic boxing skills. There are no points for artistic merit.

Obviously Wilt had far superior boxing skills than Marciano, so please accept my apologies if I have not made that clear.

A lot of sportswriters who watched Marciano get hit with tons of punches weren't impressed... In fact boxers boxers like Archie Moore and Joe Walcott said the same thing before they fought him. Rocky was very tough, could absorb a lot of punches, and he could hit. He outlasted 2-pack a day smoker Walcott, who was an old man. Walcott had been beaten 16 times already. I never saw any "fantastic skills" that Marciano had. I saw somebody hittable, slow, clumsy, who loaded his punches, and who washed up Walcott, Charles, and Moore tagged up in the early rounds before running out of gas with the pace Rocky set. He was able to walk through their shots.

Frazier walked through everything anyone threw -- until he met Foreman... It's a matter of size, strength, and punching power... Foreman was no master.

[Kalan]

Kalan the long winded appeals of those begging you to speak no more of Chamberlain, is the only thing funnier than your exuberance on the issue

And all these funnies are often interrupted by your inane and witless comments BussBox... Have some respect and grow a brain... Even a small one

This is a serious issue.. MANY fighters are sold a bill of goods.. MANY boxers never got the fights they deserve and sign for.. Gennady Golovkin has been chasing Lineal Middleweight Champions Martinez, Cotto, Canelo, for going on 7 years.. Champions: Quillin, Jacobs, Saunders, etc. also refused to fight GGG.. He has yet to land a top Middleweight - though he's the acknowledged best Middleweight in the world... Chamberlain was SERIOUS about fighting Ali... He signed the negotiated contract -- and was shined on... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s

So shut up with your stupid BS... because you don't know what you're talking about.

[BoxBuzz]

Kalan the long winded appeals of those begging you to speak no more of Chamberlain, is the only thing funnier than your exuberance on the issue

1. This is a serious issue.. 2. Chamberlain was SERIOUS about fighting Ali... 3.He signed the negotiated contract -- and was shined on... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s

4. So shut up with your stupid BS... 5. because you don't know what you're talking about.

1. I'm not sure this is all that serious of an issue, but that's just my take.

2. Chamberlain MAY have been serious about fighting Ali, it's as clear as mud, However his father's concern for his reckless suggestion was VERY SERIOUS indeed.

3. One signature on an incomplete contract does not a contract make.......seriously. And yes, it was shiny in as much as he made much ballyhoo about it.

4. Don't tell ME to shut up with MY BS......you run a significant risk of hurting my feelings. And we want to make this a comfortable place for people to have and share their opinions.

5. Nonsense, We are talking about Wilt and his potential as a boxer. Because you often bring it up.

[Kalan]

Kalan the long winded appeals of those begging you to speak no more of Chamberlain, is the only thing funnier than your exuberance on the issue

1. This is a serious issue.. 2. Chamberlain was SERIOUS about fighting Ali... 3.He signed the negotiated contract -- and was shined on... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s

4. So shut up with your stupid BS... 5. because you don't know what you're talking about.

1. I'm not sure this is all that serious of an issue, but that's just my take.

2. Chamberlain MAY have been serious about fighting Ali, it's as clear as mud, However his father's concern for his reckless suggestion was VERY SERIOUS indeed.

3. One signature on an incomplete contract does not a contract make.......seriously. And yes, it was shiny in as much as he made much ballyhoo about it.

4. Don't tell ME to shut up with MY BS......you run a significant risk of hurting my feelings. And we want to make this a comfortable place for people to have and share their opinions.

5. Nonsense, We are talking about Wilt and his potential as a boxer. Because you often bring it up.

I don't bring it up at ALL... YOU guys bring it up as if it WASN'T something Chamberlain didn't try massively to get signed, sealed, and delivered -- as I've proven by the above video where Ali punked out and wouldn't sign the contract.. And the nonsense about his father is a damned lie you made up.. If his father did object what the Hell difference would that make??? Your dad doesn't live your life... Ali posed NO threat to Chamberlain... The only guy in danger was Ali... Ali was the only 1 of those 2 men whose head was badly pummeled and pounded to the detriment of his health and life. Never happened to Wilt.. And stop saying it was a suggestion you moron.. A contract was drawn up and Ali and Wilt did promotional appearances on TV... You DON'T do those things without a fight in the offing... Chamberlain was a serious man.. Ali was a 4-flusher.

Boxing was something Wilt was approached about many times... something Chamberlain thought about and explored with D'Amato, Patterson, and other Boxing people... and something he ACTED on because he was very confident he could be Heavyweight Champion... Chamberlain was used for his celebrity and publicity potential... He was mislead by Ali and others into thinking the fight was really going to happen ... and he was shined on...