Marciano vs Wilt Chamberlain

[Controversial]

Right... And not a skilled one... And not a big one... And not a tall one...Certainly not an athletic one... Not a fast one... And not an evasive one...

Kalan, name some fighters you think could beat Chamberlain.

Somebody would beat him.. There had to be a couple in history who could do it..

With only 6 months to train and what the Ali contract called for??? AJ maybe could beat him... Lewis would need to be on his P's and Q's. Because right hands got to LL and jabs could also rip Lewis because he wasn't used to fighting big fast guys... I think Wilt Chamberlain smashes Nic Valuev in a battle of a stumbling slowpoke vs a super athlete. I don't see NV lasting a round... David Haye is very fast. The same height as Ali but bigger and stronger with savage punching power. A defense 10 X better and trains much harder. But I think he'd be too reluctant to engage and get outpointed... Wladimir wouldn't come in. Wlad has no balls. He'd give the fight away like he did with Fury... Fury might beat Wilt, but he's a mental and emotional basketcase. Fury doesn't take care of himself and doesn't train. He's a born boxer with natural instincts, but soft mentally and physically. He has no strength for a man his size. Fury needs a shrink and he's a waste of air... George Foreman was in unbelievable shape for his Frazier fight. He was ripped to shreds and hands were quick. He was sharp on the draw. What if George trained consistently. Didn't get fat between fights. Had the mentality of a boxer and developed his jab in his 20's rather than his 40's? Didn't take 10 years off. Foreman might have been able to deal with anybody if he had someone like Jack Blackburn for a coach from day one.

I see. So basically your saying Chamberlain would've been one of the greatest HWs in boxing history, maybe even the greatest? Wow.

[Kalan]

He was arguably the greatest athlete in history... Nobody dominated the record book or dominated both ends of the court in an NBA season except Wilt... It's rare for a guy to be the top scorer and rebounder in a single game much less a season.. So why not? He had a lot of assets and attributes.

[keithmoonhangover]

1. This is a serious issue.. 2. Chamberlain was SERIOUS about fighting Ali... 3.He signed the negotiated contract -- and was shined on... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s

4. So shut up with your stupid BS... 5. because you don't know what you're talking about.

1. I'm not sure this is all that serious of an issue, but that's just my take.

2. Chamberlain MAY have been serious about fighting Ali, it's as clear as mud, However his father's concern for his reckless suggestion was VERY SERIOUS indeed.

3. One signature on an incomplete contract does not a contract make.......seriously. And yes, it was shiny in as much as he made much ballyhoo about it.

4. Don't tell ME to shut up with MY BS......you run a significant risk of hurting my feelings. And we want to make this a comfortable place for people to have and share their opinions.

5. Nonsense, We are talking about Wilt and his potential as a boxer. Because you often bring it up.

I don't bring it up at ALL... YOU guys bring it up as if it WASN'T something Chamberlain didn't try massively to get signed, sealed, and delivered -- as I've proven by the above video where Ali punked out and wouldn't sign the contract.. And the nonsense about his father is a damned lie you made up.. If his father did object what the Hell difference would that make??? Your dad doesn't live your life... Ali posed NO threat to Chamberlain... The only guy in danger was Ali... Ali was the only 1 of those 2 men whose head was badly pummeled and pounded to the detriment of his health and life. Never happened to Wilt.. And stop saying it was a suggestion you moron.. A contract was drawn up and Ali and Wilt did promotional appearances on TV... You DON'T do those things without a fight in the offing... Chamberlain was a serious man.. Ali was a 4-flusher.

Boxing was something Wilt was approached about many times... something Chamberlain thought about and explored with D'Amato, Patterson, and other Boxing people... and something he ACTED on because he was very confident he could be Heavyweight Champion... Chamberlain was used for his celebrity and publicity potential... He was mislead by Ali and others into thinking the fight was really going to happen ... and he was shined on...

Kalan.

Have you got a copy of the 'contract'? Do you have any way of proving that Wilt wasn't flapping around some random piece of paper?

[Controversial]

He was arguably the greatest athlete in history... Nobody dominated the record book or dominated both ends of the court in an NBA season except Wilt... It's rare for a guy to be the top scorer and rebounder in a single game much less a season.. So why not? He had a lot of assets and attributes.

Well of course in fantasy land anything is possible however to give that theory credibility he would have needed to prove he had ability as a boxer and he couldn't.

[keithmoonhangover]

He was arguably the greatest athlete in history... Nobody dominated the record book or dominated both ends of the court in an NBA season except Wilt... It's rare for a guy to be the top scorer and rebounder in a single game much less a season.. So why not? He had a lot of assets and attributes.

Would Michael Jordan make a great boxer also?

[BoxBuzz]

He was arguably the greatest athlete in history... Nobody dominated the record book or dominated both ends of the court in an NBA season except Wilt... It's rare for a guy to be the top scorer and rebounder in a single game much less a season.. So why not? He had a lot of assets and attributes.

Would Michael Jordan make a great boxer also?

Yes. And In this picture, Michael shows proof of same. No such documentation exists in the case of W.C.

[Kalan]

He was arguably the greatest athlete in history... Nobody dominated the record book or dominated both ends of the court in an NBA season except Wilt... It's rare for a guy to be the top scorer and rebounder in a single game much less a season.. So why not? He had a lot of assets and attributes.

Would Michael Jordan make a great boxer also?

Hell NO... He had only a few attributes for Boxing.. 6'6" 220-pounds, super fast, great reflexes, a pretty fair thinker and strategist, very hard driven to be great, and fairly dedicated and goal oriented... But I suspect that would all come apart because he was so small and skinny... Probably with a super weak chin. And look at those skinny arms. I think he'd be a Jimmy Young hitter running around the ring, jabbing and grabbing and stinking the joint out. One shot from Chamberlain and the skinny little noodle would be on life support... MJ would never make it...

Huge 6'9" forward, Horace Grant, threatened to beat the shit out of Jordan in the locker room... Jordan wimped off like a coward.

[BoxBuzz]

This just in from Mike Tyson.

"The idea that W.C. would defeat Ali in a boxing match is ludicrisp."

[keithmoonhangover]

He was arguably the greatest athlete in history... Nobody dominated the record book or dominated both ends of the court in an NBA season except Wilt... It's rare for a guy to be the top scorer and rebounder in a single game much less a season.. So why not? He had a lot of assets and attributes.

Would Michael Jordan make a great boxer also?

Hell NO... He had only a few attributes for Boxing.. 6'6" 220-pounds, super fast, great reflexes, a pretty fair thinker and strategist, very hard driven to be great, and fairly dedicated and goal oriented... But I suspect that would all come apart because he was so small and skinny... Probably with a super weak chin. And look at those skinny arms. I think he'd be a Jimmy Young hitter running around the ring, jabbing and grabbing and stinking the joint out. One shot from Chamberlain and the skinny little noodle would be on life support... MJ would never make it...

Huge 6'9" forward, Horace Grant, threatened to beat the poo out of Jordan in the locker room... Jordan wimped off like a coward.

You can tell by looking at a guy, how good his chin is? Wow! No there's a talent.

[keithmoonhangover]

1. I'm not sure this is all that serious of an issue, but that's just my take.

2. Chamberlain MAY have been serious about fighting Ali, it's as clear as mud, However his father's concern for his reckless suggestion was VERY SERIOUS indeed.

3. One signature on an incomplete contract does not a contract make.......seriously. And yes, it was shiny in as much as he made much ballyhoo about it.

4. Don't tell ME to shut up with MY BS......you run a significant risk of hurting my feelings. And we want to make this a comfortable place for people to have and share their opinions.

5. Nonsense, We are talking about Wilt and his potential as a boxer. Because you often bring it up.

I don't bring it up at ALL... YOU guys bring it up as if it WASN'T something Chamberlain didn't try massively to get signed, sealed, and delivered -- as I've proven by the above video where Ali punked out and wouldn't sign the contract.. And the nonsense about his father is a damned lie you made up.. If his father did object what the Hell difference would that make??? Your dad doesn't live your life... Ali posed NO threat to Chamberlain... The only guy in danger was Ali... Ali was the only 1 of those 2 men whose head was badly pummeled and pounded to the detriment of his health and life. Never happened to Wilt.. And stop saying it was a suggestion you moron.. A contract was drawn up and Ali and Wilt did promotional appearances on TV... You DON'T do those things without a fight in the offing... Chamberlain was a serious man.. Ali was a 4-flusher.

Boxing was something Wilt was approached about many times... something Chamberlain thought about and explored with D'Amato, Patterson, and other Boxing people... and something he ACTED on because he was very confident he could be Heavyweight Champion... Chamberlain was used for his celebrity and publicity potential... He was mislead by Ali and others into thinking the fight was really going to happen ... and he was shined on...

Kalan.

Have you got a copy of the 'contract'? Do you have any way of proving that Wilt wasn't flapping around some random piece of paper?

Well Mr Kalan?

[Syntax Error]

Would Michael Jordan make a great boxer also?

Hell NO... He had only a few attributes for Boxing.. 6'6" 220-pounds, super fast, great reflexes, a pretty fair thinker and strategist, very hard driven to be great, and fairly dedicated and goal oriented... But I suspect that would all come apart because he was so small and skinny... Probably with a super weak chin. And look at those skinny arms. I think he'd be a Jimmy Young hitter running around the ring, jabbing and grabbing and stinking the joint out. One shot from Chamberlain and the skinny little noodle would be on life support... MJ would never make it...

Huge 6'9" forward, Horace Grant, threatened to beat the poo out of Jordan in the locker room... Jordan wimped off like a coward.

You can tell by looking at a guy, how good his chin is? Wow! No there's a talent.

It's no different to deciding that because Wilton was athletic & a phenomenal basketballer who once knocked out Clyde Lovellette that he had the beating of Muhammad Ali in a boxing match with just six months training having never boxed in his life.

[Kalan]

I don't bring it up at ALL... YOU guys bring it up as if it WASN'T something Chamberlain didn't try massively to get signed, sealed, and delivered -- as I've proven by the above video where Ali punked out and wouldn't sign the contract.. And the nonsense about his father is a damned lie you made up.. If his father did object what the Hell difference would that make??? Your dad doesn't live your life... Ali posed NO threat to Chamberlain... The only guy in danger was Ali... Ali was the only 1 of those 2 men whose head was badly pummeled and pounded to the detriment of his health and life. Never happened to Wilt.. And stop saying it was a suggestion you moron.. A contract was drawn up and Ali and Wilt did promotional appearances on TV... You DON'T do those things without a fight in the offing... Chamberlain was a serious man.. Ali was a 4-flusher.

Boxing was something Wilt was approached about many times... something Chamberlain thought about and explored with D'Amato, Patterson, and other Boxing people... and something he ACTED on because he was very confident he could be Heavyweight Champion... Chamberlain was used for his celebrity and publicity potential... He was mislead by Ali and others into thinking the fight was really going to happen ... and he was shined on...

Kalan.

Have you got a copy of the 'contract'? Do you have any way of proving that Wilt wasn't flapping around some random piece of paper?

Well Mr Kalan?

Why would I be walking around with the Chamberlain vs Ali title fight contract??? Don't be an idiot... The contract was negotiated and drawn up by their respective legal teams of contract lawyers, which I wasn't a part of... Are Chamberlain and Ali going to do a promotional tour and appear on TV shows together hyping a fight -- without a fight in the offing??? Wilt sure wouldn't.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s That's proof.

[Kalan]

Why do I suspect Michael Jordan wasn't a tough guy??? "Huge 6'9" forward, Horace Grant, threatened to beat the poop out of Jordan in the locker room... Jordan wimped off like a coward." If you're a tough guy you stand up to a bully... If you think you'll get murdered you wimp off like MJ did.

[keithmoonhangover]

Kalan.

Have you got a copy of the 'contract'? Do you have any way of proving that Wilt wasn't flapping around some random piece of paper?

Well Mr Kalan?

Why would I be walking around with the Chamberlain vs Ali title fight contract??? Don't be an idiot... The contract was negotiated and drawn up by their respective legal teams of contract lawyers, which I wasn't a part of... Are Chamberlain and Ali going to do a promotional tour and appear on TV shows together hyping a fight -- without a fight in the offing??? Wilt sure wouldn't.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s That's proof.

Oh, so you can't prove it was a real contract? Oh dear.

[Kalan]

I don't think you require absolute proof. Are the birthers ever going to believe Obama was born in America??? You're just being a jerk like they are.

The evidence is there but all you do is close your eyes... Chamberlain wouldn't have done a promotional tour with Ali running his mouth non-stop if he wasn't promised a fight... There's all kinds of celebrities interviewing them... They're measuring their reaches... They're talking about the contract... They're talking about the fight... Howard Cosell is comparing the size of their hands and fists and Chamberlain's are twice as big... and Chamberlain is going to go through the whole Dog & Pony Show without assurances from people that the fight is actually going to happen??? Check it out. Chamberlain was getting tired of being screwed around with tons of hot air for several weeks waiting for Ali to sign the contract. Ali wasn't signing because he didn't want to end up a corpse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s

[keithmoonhangover]

I don't think you require absolute proof.

Yes sir, I do. You haven't got any have you? You've got two people talking.

Answer me this..... Is it possible that it was nothing more than a publicity stunt? Answer honestly.

[Kalan]

NOPE!!!! ... Wilt Chamberlain was NOT into publicity stunts... He was into accomplishments like being the only player in NBA History to score 100 points in a game... and being the only player in NBA History to pull down 55 rebounds in a game... basically out-rebounding the whole other team... and scoring the most foul shots in a game... and racking up the most assists in a season -- which is the only time a center ever did that.

Their teams of lawyers who negotiated and drew up the contract had to be paid... The money for the promotional tour and TV appearances had to be paid for -- and the travel expenses for Chamberlain, Ali and their entourages... Nobody fronts money for things like that, or engages in efforts like that if they think the whole thing is a scam on TV viewers... readers... Boxing fans around the world... and Basketball fans around the world... Their fight was touted as being real and Chamberlain thought all along it was real... But obviously Chamberlain started to suspect it was all a bunch of hogwash and Ali would never risk getting into a ring with a monster like him. That's why he kept asking, How long??? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s

[keithmoonhangover]

Their teams of lawyers who negotiated and drew up the contract had to be paid...

Do you have a copy of the bill for the services of the lawyers that drew up this alleged 'contract'?

[Kalan]

You would ask a flower for a certificate to prove it came out of the earth... You would ask the sun for papers to prove it's made from hydrogen and helium... You heard the lawyer at the beginning of the video say he had a signed contract and that the fight was actually going to happen... Do you need copies of the Magna Carta.. The Constitution.. The Emancipation Proclamation.. and Barack Obama's long form birth certificate???

[lillywhite14]

[keithmoonhangover]

You would ask a flower for a certificate to prove it came out of the earth... You would ask the sun for papers to prove it's made from hydrogen and helium... You heard the lawyer at the beginning of the video say he had a signed contract and that the fight was actually going to happen... Do you need copies of the Magna Carta.. The Constitution.. The Emancipation Proclamation.. and Barack Obama's long form birth certificate???

I don't need any of them, just some proof of there being a contract.

Please answer...... is it at possible that it was just a publicity stunt?

[Kalan]

You would ask a flower for a certificate to prove it came out of the earth... You would ask the sun for papers to prove it's made from hydrogen and helium... You heard the lawyer at the beginning of the video say he had a signed contract and that the fight was actually going to happen... Do you need copies of the Magna Carta.. The Constitution.. The Emancipation Proclamation.. and Barack Obama's long form birth certificate???

I don't need any of them, just some proof of there being a contract.

Please answer...... is it at possible that it was just a publicity stunt?

You know what??? Chamberlain and Ali hyping a phony fight all over the press and the media with Dog & Pony Shows just frustrates a lot of fans who think the fight is actually going to happen... Fans were calling all over asking where they could get tickets... "The fight is not scheduled yet, sorry. No tickets are available." But you don't have Chamberlain asking Ali to sign the contract and producing pens out of his pockets, if he isn't starting to get frustrated, and thinking that Ali is full of gas and never did intend to sign any contract to fight him...

Boxing is a disorganized piece of crap. I'll tell you that... Deserving fighters wait for years and years because logical opponents simply side step them.

[Kalan]

And you can read Chamberlain's autobiography WILT which is still in print from the 1970's... He goes into detail about the terms of the painstakingly negotiated contract such as the money and the 6 months to train... and Ali refusing to ever sign what he agreed to in negotiations.

[Kalan]

Ali never refuted a word of what Chamberlain said in his book about the contract and Ali's refusing to sign it.

[BoxBuzz]

Without going into a lot of details here, I'm going to call BS on your assessment skills.

Your "judgment" on things like Valero being one of the greats, Wilt being able to easily defeat Ali, and in your writings you often give serious credence to "swan song" fights, such as Ali-Holmes, Tyson-Holmes, McBride-Tyson....(just to name a few) as helpful in developing a benchmark for judgement of fighters careers, pretty much puts you out of the game in "assessing" if this fight ever had legs.

This proposed fight was just to stir up some drama, and give some writers something to talk about....particularly in Wilt's pursuit of a fatter contract.



However for the record, your take is the following.....Great Big Famous Basketball player humiliates Undisputed Boxing Champion, by chasing him down, and having him cower in fear over the idea of signing to fight him.


Most peoples take would be the following....Big Smart Basketball player, AND Boxing champion conspire together to grab some headlines, and stir interest in both of their careers toward making more money in their chosen professions. No such fight was ever seriously entertained, and IF such a fight was ever going to happen...Wilt would have HAD to get some skin in the game. And sign a contract that was rather tilted toward the champions wishes/wants/desires....because he was the champion, and also the most famous person on the planet. Wilt never really wanted the fight, like you say, he was a pragmatist, and milked it to up his NBA contract numbers. He also upped his brand by being in the same room as Muhammad on a few occasions.

And seriously, you'd have to pay Ali a lot in that case, because when he wins, he gets laughed at, and if he loses he gets laughed at. Sort of a win/win for Wilt only.

It would go down as a "brand destroying moment" in the mold of "Foreman vs The Bums"

There may be some other scenarios one might be able to imagineer, but the one YOU have signed on to is just a bridge to far to have credibility.