Marciano vs Wilt Chamberlain

Kalan
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Re: Marciano vs Wilt Chamberlain

Post by Kalan »

BoxBuzz wrote:Without going into a lot of details here, I'm going to call BS on your assessment skills.

Your "judgment" on things like Valero being one of the greats, Wilt being able to easily defeat Ali, and in your writings you often give serious credence to "swan song" fights, such as Ali-Holmes, Tyson-Holmes, McBride-Tyson....(just to name a few) as helpful in developing a benchmark for judgement of fighters careers, pretty much puts you out of the game in "assessing" if this fight ever had legs.

This proposed fight was just to stir up some drama, and give some writers something to talk about....particularly in Wilt's pursuit of a fatter contract.



However for the record, your take is the following.....Great Big Famous Basketball player humiliates Undisputed Boxing Champion, by chasing him down, and having him cower in fear over the idea of signing to fight him.


Most peoples take would be the following....Big Smart Basketball player, AND Boxing champion conspire together to grab some headlines, and stir interest in both of their careers toward making more money in their chosen professions. No such fight was ever seriously entertained, and IF such a fight was ever going to happen...Wilt would have HAD to get some skin in the game. And sign a contract that was rather tilted toward the champions wishes/wants/desires....because he was the champion, and also the most famous person on the planet. Wilt never really wanted the fight, like you say, he was a pragmatist, and milked it to up his NBA contract numbers. He also upped his brand by being in the same room as Muhammad on a few occasions.

And seriously, you'd have to pay Ali a lot in that case, because when he wins, he gets laughed at, and if he loses he gets laughed at. Sort of a win/win for Wilt only.

It would go down as a "brand destroying moment" in the mold of "Foreman vs The Bums"

There may be some other scenarios one might be able to imagineer, but the one YOU have signed on to is just a bridge to far to have credibility.
Buzzbox, your assessment skills are worse than miserable... Armstrong was beaten many times because he led with his face... Nobody ever came close to beating Valero.. Nobody lasted the distance with him in 27 professional fights, including 8 World Championship fights in 2 divisions.. Valero easily dominated and stopped 25-1 Tony DeMarco, after DeMarco slashed a savage 3-inch cut on his brow with an elbow. A cut that had Valero bleeding like a stuck pig.. Armstrong's record after 27 fights against nobodies was pretty poor because he was wide open.. and he was matched with scores of patsies.. When he fought somebody like Ray Robinson, Beau Jack, or guys of that quality, he got pummeled ... hence 21 losses.

As far as swan song fights go.. Tyson-Douglas wasn't swan song.. and Ali-Norton wasn't swan song.. Fights like Tyson-McBride are made because when your abilities decline you fight super weak opposition to get easy wins.. The Tyson folks offered McBride the fight.. McBride's wasn't looking for Tyson

You specialize on making up scenarios that never exist anywhere except in your disjointed mind... The idea of Wilt and Ali conspiring to grab headlines is a non-starter. Wilt and Ali were natural rivals and didn't like each other. Both made extremely uncomplimentary statements about the other in their books, Wilt ripping Ali for an amazing lack of intelligence in his book, and Ali calling Wilt an "Uncle Tom" in his book...

Chamberlain had more than one career.. He was an actor, commercial pitchman, film producer, businessman, and a member of the Volleyball Hall of Fame, because he was also outstanding in that sport.. But after about a thousand people mentioned the idea of him being an unbeatable boxer.. Wilt began to explore the idea.. After talking to a number of Boxing professionals who said he was a natural and couldn't miss, he told the media he would love to fight Muhammad Ali and win the Heavyweight Championship of the World. He also said, "As immodest as this sounds, with enough training and boxing practice, I don't think anyone could beat me. Boxing appeals to me because it's an individual sport. I get tired of having 3 to 5 guys converge on me when I'm on the Basketball court. I've determined the best course for me is going straight for Muhammad Ali and knock him out. That's what I intend to do."

The strategy worked. The press went straight to Ali and wanted his comments on Chamberlain challenging him. Ali said he would welcome the fight and that's when he made up the "timber" line.. Ali was prone to making exaggerated statements. He also said he would put Liston into orbit with a punch, and as he passed in front of the moon we'd see "The eclipse of the Sonny" ... Everything went better than Chamberlain ever hoped so far as publicity and public interest -- until it actually came down to Ali signing the negotiated contract to fight him.. Ali simply wouldn't sign because he didn't want to get killed.. Cus D'Amato warned Chamberlain, "To get any top guy to fight you will be very hard. You need to low key it." It didn't work.. Ali was scared to death.
Controversial
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Re: Marciano vs Wilt Chamberlain

Post by Controversial »

Did Chamberlain apply for a boxing licence?
Kalan
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Re: Marciano vs Wilt Chamberlain

Post by Kalan »

Yes... He had to get one for the Ali fight obviously... Not that it's tough to get one.. I've seen some horrendously fat blobs get licenses to box.. Guys who could never be a professional athlete in any other sport are sometimes in demand opponents in Boxing.. They're a walking win for somebody.
keithmoonhangover
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Re: Marciano vs Wilt Chamberlain

Post by keithmoonhangover »

Kalan wrote:Yes... He had to get one for the Ali fight obviously... Not that it's tough to get one.. I've seen some horrendously fat blobs get licenses to box.. Guys who could never be a professional athlete in any other sport are sometimes in demand opponents in Boxing.. They're a walking win for somebody.
Where is this licence? Do you have a copy?
Controversial
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Re: Marciano vs Wilt Chamberlain

Post by Controversial »

That Cosell footage was from 1967 shortly before Ali took his 3 year exile from boxing. So was there two fights planned as I thought one fell through because Ali lost to Frazier which was in 1971.
hhaehre
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Re: Marciano vs Wilt Chamberlain

Post by hhaehre »

Could it be that the contract Wilt was flapping around was in fact not a contract, but rather the massive dental bill he incurred when Clyde Lovellette knocked all of his teeth out?
Kalan
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Re: Marciano vs Wilt Chamberlain

Post by Kalan »

hhaehre wrote:Could it be that the contract Wilt was flapping around was in fact not a contract, but rather the massive dental bill he incurred when Clyde Lovellette knocked all of his teeth out?
You're an A-Hole... Lovellette blind sided Wilt with an elbow smash... He didn't knock all his teeth out.. didn't put him down... Chamberlain paid Lovellette back by knocking him out with one punch.. It was face-to-face.. not a cheap shot like the A-hole Lovellette loved to deliver.
keithmoonhangover
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Re: Marciano vs Wilt Chamberlain

Post by keithmoonhangover »

keithmoonhangover wrote:
Kalan wrote:Yes... He had to get one for the Ali fight obviously... Not that it's tough to get one.. I've seen some horrendously fat blobs get licenses to box.. Guys who could never be a professional athlete in any other sport are sometimes in demand opponents in Boxing.. They're a walking win for somebody.
Where is this licence? Do you have a copy?

Kalan?
keithmoonhangover
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Re: Marciano vs Wilt Chamberlain

Post by keithmoonhangover »

hhaehre wrote:Could it be that the contract Wilt was flapping around was in fact not a contract, but rather the massive dental bill he incurred when Clyde Lovellette knocked all of his teeth out?
:OhYes:
Kalan
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Re: Marciano vs Wilt Chamberlain

Post by Kalan »

keithmoonhangover wrote:
keithmoonhangover wrote:
Kalan wrote:Yes... He had to get one for the Ali fight obviously... Not that it's tough to get one.. I've seen some horrendously fat blobs get licenses to box.. Guys who could never be a professional athlete in any other sport are sometimes in demand opponents in Boxing.. They're a walking win for somebody.
Where is this licence? Do you have a copy?

Kalan?
Getting a boxing license is the easiest thing in the world... But why would I have a copy of Wilt Chamberlain's boxing license you dumb ass???
keithmoonhangover
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Re: Marciano vs Wilt Chamberlain

Post by keithmoonhangover »

Kalan wrote:
keithmoonhangover wrote:
keithmoonhangover wrote:
Where is this licence? Do you have a copy?

Kalan?
Getting a boxing license is the easiest thing in the world... But why would I have a copy of Wilt Chamberlain's boxing license you dumb ass???
To prove that he had one. If you can't produce one, then I will have to assume that he didn't have one. :shame:
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Re: Marciano vs Wilt Chamberlain

Post by Controversial »

Kalan wrote:

Kalan, that Cosell footage was from 1967 shortly before Ali took his 3 year exile from boxing. So was there two fights planned as I thought one fell through because Ali lost to Frazier which was in 1971. So was there a contract for both fights or just the one in 1967?
Syntax Error
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Re: Marciano vs Wilt Chamberlain

Post by Syntax Error »

Page 3! :oo

Only another 70 pages to go! :brick: :brick: :witzend:
Seamus
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Re: Marciano vs Wilt Chamberlain

Post by Seamus »

Fat Toney could stay out of the gym for 6 months and he'd still box Chambermaid's ears off, because, and this always important to remember...... he's was an actual boxer.
keithmoonhangover
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Re: Marciano vs Wilt Chamberlain

Post by keithmoonhangover »

Syntax Error wrote:Page 3! :oo

Only another 70 pages to go! :brick: :brick: :witzend:
:OhYes:
keithmoonhangover
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Re: Marciano vs Wilt Chamberlain

Post by keithmoonhangover »

Seamus wrote:Fat Toney could stay out of the gym for 6 months and he'd still box Chambermaid's ears off, because, and this always important to remember...... he's was an actual boxer.
:stop: :roll:
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Re: Marciano vs Wilt Chamberlain

Post by hhaehre »

Kalan wrote:
hhaehre wrote:Could it be that the contract Wilt was flapping around was in fact not a contract, but rather the massive dental bill he incurred when Clyde Lovellette knocked all of his teeth out?
You're an A-Hole... Lovellette blind sided Wilt with an elbow smash... He didn't knock all his teeth out.. didn't put him down... Chamberlain paid Lovellette back by knocking him out with one punch.. It was face-to-face.. not a cheap shot like the A-hole Lovellette loved to deliver.
To be honest, I don't think Wilt could take it in the mouth. A couple of quick Ali jabs to the teeth and he'd have flashbacks to the maiming he suffered at the hands of the mighty Clyde Lovellette. I smell a 'no mas' in the making.
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Re: Marciano vs Wilt Chamberlain

Post by BoxBuzz »

Wilt's body language in the discussion/ confrontation was not that of a person who was overly confident.
Kalan
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Re: Marciano vs Wilt Chamberlain

Post by Kalan »

Here's some body language for you Image

Who has the bigger and better body for smashing the other guys' head off????
Kalan
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Re: Marciano vs Wilt Chamberlain

Post by Kalan »

Arms twice as long and twice as big... Fist twice as huge... And a brain 10 X as smart... Ali even failed the minimum requirement IQ for the armed services
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Re: Marciano vs Wilt Chamberlain

Post by hhaehre »

Kalan wrote:Arms twice as long and twice as big... Fist twice as huge... And a brain 10 X as smart... Ali even failed the minimum requirement IQ for the armed services
Yes, Wilt was in fact so smart that he chickened out of the Ali fight. He followed the sage advise of his dad and instead worked his free throw percentage up from a respectable 37% to a whopping 39%!!! Wilt simply had the biggest brain out there. Also he didn't have any teeth, because big Clyde Lovellette had knocked them all out.
Kalan
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Re: Marciano vs Wilt Chamberlain

Post by Kalan »

hhaehre wrote:
Kalan wrote:Arms twice as long and twice as big... Fist twice as huge... And a brain 10 X as smart... Ali even failed the minimum requirement IQ for the armed services
Yes, Wilt was in fact so smart that he chickened out of the Ali fight. He followed the sage advise of his dad and instead worked his free throw percentage up from a respectable 37% to a whopping 39%!!! Wilt simply had the biggest brain out there. Also he didn't have any teeth, because big Clyde Lovellette had knocked them all out.
And you're a stupid hateful ass who doesn't know shat from shinola... Chamberlain holds the record for most foul shots ever made in a game -- hitting a very high percentage of them in his 100 point game -- which no other NBA player ever approached his record 100 points... He certainly had plenty of teeth and knocked Clyde Lovellette out with one shot..

In fact, Bill Russell wrote in his book that he told Chamberlain, "Thank you Wilt. Lovellette had it coming for a long time." Russell also said, "The referees didn't call a foul on Chamberlain or throw him out of the game. Because everybody hated Lovellette, who had a reputation as a cheap shot artist." Russell also wrote, "Everybody found out what they wanted to know. Wilt can punch." After which Lovellette quit the NBA rather than face Chamberlain again.
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Re: Marciano vs Wilt Chamberlain

Post by Controversial »

Kalan wrote:Here's some body language for you Image

Who has the bigger and better body for smashing the other guys' head off????
Kalan, as you well know the Howard Cosell interview you keep posting with Ali, Chamberlain and the alleged "contract" was in March 1967. A few days after this TV event the unbeaten Ali defended his world title against Zora Folley. The following month in April 1967 Ali's refused induction into the army and had his title and boxing licence removed. He stayed in exile for 3.5 years.

There was another fight planned in 1971 after Ali returned to boxing however Ali got beat by Frazier. He wasn't a world champ anymore so any fight with Chamberlain would've been an exhibition anyway. Where is the contract that Ali allegedly refused to sign in 1971 as all the evidence says Chamberlain didn't sign anything and walked out the press conference when Ali started shouting 'timbeeeer'.

These two incidents happened 4 years apart but seem to be getting rolled into one.
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Re: Marciano vs Wilt Chamberlain

Post by Tomasino »

Controversial wrote:
Kalan wrote:Here's some body language for you Image

Who has the bigger and better body for smashing the other guys' head off????
Kalan, as you well know the Howard Cosell interview you keep posting with Ali, Chamberlain and the alleged "contract" was in March 1967. A few days after this TV event the unbeaten Ali defended his world title against Zora Folley. The following month in April 1967 Ali's refused induction into the army and had his title and boxing licence removed. He stayed in exile for 3.5 years.

There was another fight planned in 1971 after Ali returned to boxing however Ali got beat by Frazier. He wasn't a world champ anymore so any fight with Chamberlain would've been an exhibition anyway. Where is the contract that Ali allegedly refused to sign in 1971 as all the evidence says Chamberlain didn't sign anything and walked out the press conference when Ali started shouting 'timbeeeer'.

These two incidents happened 4 years apart but seem to be getting rolled into one.

I predict this will take Kalan around 10 hours to respond as he desperately reads up on the situation, knowing he's caught himself up in a web of lies and deceit.
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Re: Marciano vs Wilt Chamberlain

Post by Controversial »

Tomasino wrote:
I predict this will take Kalan around 10 hours to respond as he desperately reads up on the situation, knowing he's caught himself up in a web of lies and deceit.
This is the third time I've asked, still no reply.
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