Who is no.1 heavyweight

[wesshaw1985]

Fury ain't #1 if he doesn't want to fight.

As it stands today, 12 months on from beating Wlad, Fury is number 1 in the division. There is simply no debating it.
If Fury is still "retired" come January 1st 2018 then I will happily reconsider my selection...

So Fury has to be inactive for 27 months before you'd consider removing him from contention?

27 months? He fought Wlad on the 28th of November. That's 25 months effectively, 2 years give or take.
Anyway, what is the rush to take him out of the running and move somebody else into his spot?
Wouldn't you prefer that your chosen fighter beats Fury to become THE man in the division rather than get the spot through a default?

[gilgamesh]

As it stands today, 12 months on from beating Wlad, Fury is number 1 in the division. There is simply no debating it.
If Fury is still "retired" come January 1st 2018 then I will happily reconsider my selection...

So Fury has to be inactive for 27 months before you'd consider removing him from contention?

27 months? He fought Wlad on the 28th of November. That's 25 months effectively, 2 years give or take.
Anyway, what is the rush to take him out of the running and move somebody else into his spot?
Wouldn't you prefer that your chosen fighter beats Fury to become THE man in the division rather than get the spot through a default?

I'd like to see Joshua or whoever knock Fury out yes, but they don't have to beat him to become The Man. Fury has already given up his status as The man without a fight.

Truth is. He knows he was lucky when he beat Wlad, and just happened to be in the ring the night Wlad decided not to fight and give his title up. He knows he won't be that lucky as the defending Champion and a knockout loss was just around the corner. So he dove into a pile of cocaine. That way even if he loses now he can blame it on the drugs, but the truth is, he just wasn't good enough.

[wesshaw1985]

So Fury has to be inactive for 27 months before you'd consider removing him from contention?

27 months? He fought Wlad on the 28th of November. That's 25 months effectively, 2 years give or take.
Anyway, what is the rush to take him out of the running and move somebody else into his spot?
Wouldn't you prefer that your chosen fighter beats Fury to become THE man in the division rather than get the spot through a default?

I'd like to see Joshua or whoever knock Fury out yes, but they don't have to beat him to become The Man. Fury has already given up his status as The man without a fight.

Truth is. He knows he was lucky when he beat Wlad, and just happened to be in the ring the night Wlad decided not to fight and give his title up. He knows he won't be that lucky as the defending Champion and a knockout loss was just around the corner. So he dove into a pile of cocaine. That way even if he loses now he can blame it on the drugs, but the truth is, he just wasn't good enough.

don't let your hatred of Tyson Fury cloud your judgement my friend.
"lucky" or not, Tyson beat Wlad and became number 1 in the division.
12 months on, he is still number 1 in the division.
Joshua beating a Molina, Wilder beating an Arreola and Parker beating a Ruiz jr doesn't put them anywhere near the top of the tree. Simply a fact...

[gilgamesh]

My judgment isn't clouded. If one of my favorite fighters beat his best opponent in a non-fight and then retired amid a haze of Cocaine without defending the title I'd say the same thing about him.

Fury is the Lineal Heavyweight Champion still, but if he has no intention of defending it that doesn't amount to much. He basically disgraced the Heavyweight Championship by winning it in one of the worst fights ever, and then dropping it like a coward.

[Rob3_142]

As it stands today, 12 months on from beating Wlad, Fury is number 1 in the division. There is simply no debating it.
If Fury is still "retired" come January 1st 2018 then I will happily reconsider my selection...

So Fury has to be inactive for 27 months before you'd consider removing him from contention?

27 months? He fought Wlad on the 28th of November. That's 25 months effectively, 2 years give or take.
Anyway, what is the rush to take him out of the running and move somebody else into his spot?
Wouldn't you prefer that your chosen fighter beats Fury to become THE man in the division rather than get the spot through a default?

I'd prefer the 'divisions number one fighter' to be a licensed boxer, and having any visible ambition to step in a boxing ring to defend his status. But I don't see any of those things. It's not fair to keep number one status out of reach of every active heavyweight.

[wesshaw1985]

My judgment isn't clouded. If one of my favorite fighters beat his best opponent in a non-fight and then retired amid a haze of Cocaine without defending the title I'd say the same thing about him.

Fury is the Lineal Heavyweight Champion still, but if he has no intention of defending it that doesn't amount to much. He basically disgraced the Heavyweight Championship by winning it in one of the worst fights ever, and then dropping it like a coward.

what ABC heavyweight championship has he disgraced exactly?
Wlad was the man in the division 12 months ago, undefeated for 11 and a half years.
Fury went to Germany and beat him via decision in his own backyard.
Unorthodox and sometimes not fun to watch? Yes. Cowardly? I don't think so.
Suppose he could have spent the last 12 months having a couple of defences against cans like Molina or Breazeale to gain some of your respect.
Some people cant win, the fact remains Tyson Fury did what nobody else could do and he is THE man at heavyweight to beat...

[gilgamesh]

You can't disgrace ABC Championships any more than they already disgrace themselves.

[gilgamesh]

My judgment isn't clouded. If one of my favorite fighters beat his best opponent in a non-fight and then retired amid a haze of Cocaine without defending the title I'd say the same thing about him.

Fury is the Lineal Heavyweight Champion still, but if he has no intention of defending it that doesn't amount to much. He basically disgraced the Heavyweight Championship by winning it in one of the worst fights ever, and then dropping it like a coward.

what ABC heavyweight championship has he disgraced exactly?
Wlad was the man in the division 12 months ago, undefeated for 11 and a half years.
Fury went to Germany and beat him via decision in his own backyard.
Unorthodox and sometimes not fun to watch? Yes. Cowardly? I don't think so.
Suppose he could have spent the last 12 months having a couple of defences against cans like Molina or Breazeale to gain some of your respect.
Some people cant win, the fact remains Tyson Fury did what nobody else could do and he is THE man at heavyweight to beat...

I'd never have been a fan of Fury, but I'd at least have respected him if he fought the Wlad rematch and beat him again. He knew he was lucky when he beat Wlad, and that Wlad didn't come anywhere near giving his best effort that night whereas Fury couldn't have done any better. I don't believe Fury would've gotten lucky against Wlad twice, and he probably didn't believe he could either which is why he chose the Cocaine.

[Tanzio]

My judgment isn't clouded. If one of my favorite fighters beat his best opponent in a non-fight and then retired amid a haze of Cocaine without defending the title I'd say the same thing about him.

Fury is the Lineal Heavyweight Champion still, but if he has no intention of defending it that doesn't amount to much. He basically disgraced the Heavyweight Championship by winning it in one of the worst fights ever, and then dropping it like a coward.

Now gil, you're being insensitive to The Snowman's fragile mental state. We should take that into serious consideration whenever we speak of him. Talking candidly about his Hoover-like capacity for inhaling blow may cause The Snowman mental anguish.

Suggesting that he is no longer the HW king of the hill because he voluntarily surrendered said hill is not just inconsiderate of The Snowman's psychological coordinates, it could send a decent percentage of an entire nation into clinical depression. I don't know about you, gil, but I would prefer to avoid being the cause of such angst.

[wesshaw1985]

So Fury has to be inactive for 27 months before you'd consider removing him from contention?

27 months? He fought Wlad on the 28th of November. That's 25 months effectively, 2 years give or take.
Anyway, what is the rush to take him out of the running and move somebody else into his spot?
Wouldn't you prefer that your chosen fighter beats Fury to become THE man in the division rather than get the spot through a default?

I'd prefer the 'divisions number one fighter' to be a licensed boxer, and having any visible ambition to step in a boxing ring to defend his status. But I don't see any of those things. It's not fair to keep number one status out of reach of every active heavyweight.

I agree, if Joshua or any other heavyweight builds a resume to compare then yes Fury will have to step up or step aside.
If Joshua gets past Wlad next year then he moves to number 2 in the division in my eyes. Add 2 of Haye/Ortiz/Wilder/Parker to your resume and we are into 2018 and you will have moved past Tyson Fury.
But dont try to claim Fury is irrelevant and fast track somebody else into his position because you prefer there personality. Its neither fair nor honest...

[gilgamesh]

My judgment isn't clouded. If one of my favorite fighters beat his best opponent in a non-fight and then retired amid a haze of Cocaine without defending the title I'd say the same thing about him.

Fury is the Lineal Heavyweight Champion still, but if he has no intention of defending it that doesn't amount to much. He basically disgraced the Heavyweight Championship by winning it in one of the worst fights ever, and then dropping it like a coward.

Now gil, you're being insensitive to The Snowman's fragile mental state. We should take that into serious consideration whenever we speak of him. Talking candidly about his Hoover-like capacity for inhaling blow may cause The Snowman mental anguish.

Suggesting that he is no longer the HW king of the hill because he voluntarily surrendered said hill is not just inconsiderate of The Snowman's psychological coordinates, it could send a decent percentage of an entire nation into clinical depression. I don't know about you, gil, but I would prefer to avoid being the cause of such angst.

Considering another Brit fighter who is significantly more exciting to watch seems next in line to claim the throne I think the entire nation will get over it soon enough.

[wesshaw1985]

My judgment isn't clouded. If one of my favorite fighters beat his best opponent in a non-fight and then retired amid a haze of Cocaine without defending the title I'd say the same thing about him.

Fury is the Lineal Heavyweight Champion still, but if he has no intention of defending it that doesn't amount to much. He basically disgraced the Heavyweight Championship by winning it in one of the worst fights ever, and then dropping it like a coward.

Now gil, you're being insensitive to The Snowman's fragile mental state. We should take that into serious consideration whenever we speak of him. Talking candidly about his Hoover-like capacity for inhaling blow may cause The Snowman mental anguish.

Suggesting that he is no longer the HW king of the hill because he voluntarily surrendered said hill is not just inconsiderate of The Snowman's psychological coordinates, it could send a decent percentage of an entire nation into clinical depression. I don't know about you, gil, but I would prefer to avoid being the cause of such angst.

Considering another Brit fighter who is significantly more exciting to watch seems next in line to claim the throne I think the entire nation will get over it soon enough.

do you consider watching Joshua knock over cans exciting to watch?
was there something masterful I missed in any of these performances or was the opposition simply not upto the task? vs. Martin for a version of the World Title was a joke, he took his money and lay down.

Wilder has beaten exactly the same calibre of opponent only more of them, as has Ortiz. Parker beating Takam maybe the best of the bunch.

They are all neck and neck vying for the top spot, behind Wlad and definitely behind Mr. Fury...

[gilgamesh]

I consider it more exciting than winning a staring contest for the Heavyweight Title yeah. I haven't been too critical of Joshua's fairly weak opposition yet because he's still got less than 20 Pro fights, and is being fast tracked.

He's fighting Wlad next with still less than 20 fights to his credit. Not too many fighters take that big of a fight that early in their career.

Joshua vs Wlad will probably be tedious if Wlad has his way for a few rounds, but I guarantee you Joshua isn't just gonna stand there all night and let Wlad stare at him without trying to knock him out.

[wesshaw1985]

I consider it more exciting than winning a staring contest for the Heavyweight Title yeah. I haven't been too critical of Joshua's fairly weak opposition yet because he's still got less than 20 Pro fights, and is being fast tracked.

He's fighting Wlad next with still less than 20 fights to his credit. Not too many fighters take that big of a fight that early in their career.

Joshua vs Wlad will probably be tedious if Wlad has his way for a few rounds, but I guarantee you Joshua isn't just gonna stand there all night and let Wlad stare at him without trying to knock him out.

#2 Wlad vs. #6 Joshua it will certainly be an interesting fight...

[gilgamesh]

I consider it more exciting than winning a staring contest for the Heavyweight Title yeah. I haven't been too critical of Joshua's fairly weak opposition yet because he's still got less than 20 Pro fights, and is being fast tracked.

He's fighting Wlad next with still less than 20 fights to his credit. Not too many fighters take that big of a fight that early in their career.

Joshua vs Wlad will probably be tedious if Wlad has his way for a few rounds, but I guarantee you Joshua isn't just gonna stand there all night and let Wlad stare at him without trying to knock him out.

#2 Wlad vs. #6 Joshua it will certainly be an interesting fight...

Where is Joshua ranked #6? I currently have him #3 and figure you'd have a hard time putting 3 other guys over him. I don't even have Wlad ranked anymore at the moment due to a year of inactivity.

[wesshaw1985]

I consider it more exciting than winning a staring contest for the Heavyweight Title yeah. I haven't been too critical of Joshua's fairly weak opposition yet because he's still got less than 20 Pro fights, and is being fast tracked.

He's fighting Wlad next with still less than 20 fights to his credit. Not too many fighters take that big of a fight that early in their career.

Joshua vs Wlad will probably be tedious if Wlad has his way for a few rounds, but I guarantee you Joshua isn't just gonna stand there all night and let Wlad stare at him without trying to knock him out.

#2 Wlad vs. #6 Joshua it will certainly be an interesting fight...

Where is Joshua ranked #6? I currently have him #3 and figure you'd have a hard time putting 3 other guys over him.

#1 Fury
#2 Wlad
#3 Povetkin
#4 Ortiz
#5 Wilder
#6 Joshua
Pulev and Parker could also be argued. Chisora and Takam are arguably better than anybody Ortiz/Wilder/Joshua has beaten...

[Boxerbeetle]

Fury has been an absolute embarrassment to himself this year. He dropped the belts instead of defending them like a champion, then couldn't even manage to keep his boxing licence. He's proven himself to be too mentally weak to be considered no. 1 at heavyweight.

[Rexob]

Haters will hate.

[wesshaw1985]

Fury has been an absolute embarrassment to himself this year. He dropped the belts instead of defending them like a champion, then couldn't even manage to keep his boxing licence. He's proven himself to be too mentally weak to be considered no. 1 at heavyweight.

he mentally held it together long enough to dethrone Wlad over 12 rounds in Germany.
Thus making him #1 at heavyweight...

[gilgamesh]

#2 Wlad vs. #6 Joshua it will certainly be an interesting fight...

Where is Joshua ranked #6? I currently have him #3 and figure you'd have a hard time putting 3 other guys over him.

#1 Fury
#2 Wlad
#3 Povetkin
#4 Ortiz
#5 Wilder
#6 Joshua
Pulev and Parker could also be argued. Chisora and Takam are arguably better than anybody Ortiz/Wilder/Joshua has beaten...

Who's rankings are these?

I can't see having Ortiz over Joshua at the moment with the way he's looked lately, but his win over Bryant Jennings is definitely better than any of Joshua's wins. His career just keeps being halted by too many insignificant fights. Wilder is a joke of a titleholder, afraid of the entire Top 10.

[wesshaw1985]

Where is Joshua ranked #6? I currently have him #3 and figure you'd have a hard time putting 3 other guys over him.

#1 Fury
#2 Wlad
#3 Povetkin
#4 Ortiz
#5 Wilder
#6 Joshua
Pulev and Parker could also be argued. Chisora and Takam are arguably better than anybody Ortiz/Wilder/Joshua has beaten...

Who's rankings are these?

I can't see having Ortiz over Joshua at the moment with the way he's looked lately, but his win over Bryant Jennings is definitely better than any of Joshua's wins. His career just keeps being halted by too many insignificant fights. Wilder is a joke of a titleholder, afraid of the entire Top 10.

These are my rankings, as I see them today.

Wilder has beaten exactly the same level of opposition as Joshua, hes just beaten more of them. Same as Ortiz.
Today, Ortiz beats both Wilder and Joshua imo and with that win over Jennings he goes ahead of them. Wilder has beaten more scrubs than Joshua, so he goes ahead of Joshua but only just...

[Rob3_142]

27 months? He fought Wlad on the 28th of November. That's 25 months effectively, 2 years give or take.
Anyway, what is the rush to take him out of the running and move somebody else into his spot?
Wouldn't you prefer that your chosen fighter beats Fury to become THE man in the division rather than get the spot through a default?

I'd prefer the 'divisions number one fighter' to be a licensed boxer, and having any visible ambition to step in a boxing ring to defend his status. But I don't see any of those things. It's not fair to keep number one status out of reach of every active heavyweight.

I agree, if Joshua or any other heavyweight builds a resume to compare then yes Fury will have to step up or step aside.
If Joshua gets past Wlad next year then he moves to number 2 in the division in my eyes. Add 2 of Haye/Ortiz/Wilder/Parker to your resume and we are into 2018 and you will have moved past Tyson Fury.
But dont try to claim Fury is irrelevant and fast track somebody else into his position because you prefer there personality. Its neither fair nor honest...

Hey come on now, I'm not trying to fast track anyone. I'm just saying I don't personally recognise Fury in the rankings because he's exceeded 12 months of inactivity, has no fights scheduled, and more importantly has no boxing license. This is no reflection on Fury's achievements prior to this, and/or him as a person. The moment he won that fight in Germany, I recognised him as top of the ladder, and lauded his achievement. Rest assured it went very quickly downhill from there. From a purely boxing perspective, when he cancelled the second fight with Klitschko, I removed him as my #1.

[gilgamesh]

Well your rankings are understandable I just don't have Fury or Wlad ranked anymore due to inactivity. Wladimir definitely gets reinstalled as #1 if he beats Joshua in April. Joshua definitely rises to #1 if he beats Wlad.

I figure it may be the last we see of Wlad regardless of how it goes. The only thing Wlad might consider sticking around for if he were to beat Joshua would be a Fury rematch, though he may have already moved on from that.

[Boxerbeetle]

Haters will hate.

Unfortunately it seems like Tyson hates himself and is intent on sabotaging his own career. Lots of boxing fans ate humble pie after the Klitschko result, but his behaviour seems to confirm it was a fluke and he doesn't think he can do it again.

[wesshaw1985]

I'd prefer the 'divisions number one fighter' to be a licensed boxer, and having any visible ambition to step in a boxing ring to defend his status. But I don't see any of those things. It's not fair to keep number one status out of reach of every active heavyweight.

I agree, if Joshua or any other heavyweight builds a resume to compare then yes Fury will have to step up or step aside.
If Joshua gets past Wlad next year then he moves to number 2 in the division in my eyes. Add 2 of Haye/Ortiz/Wilder/Parker to your resume and we are into 2018 and you will have moved past Tyson Fury.
But dont try to claim Fury is irrelevant and fast track somebody else into his position because you prefer there personality. Its neither fair nor honest...

Hey come on now, I'm not trying to fast track anyone. I'm just saying I don't personally recognise Fury in the rankings because he's exceeded 12 months of inactivity, has no fights scheduled, and more importantly has no boxing license. This is no reflection on Fury's achievements prior to this, and/or him as a person. The moment he won that fight in Germany, I recognised him as top of the ladder, and lauded his achievement. Rest assured it went very quickly downhill from there. From a purely boxing perspective, when he cancelled the second fight with Klitschko, I removed him as my #1.

removed Fury as #1 and replaced him with whom?