When a Fighter legs "Go"

[Caractacus]

What are the usuall reasons ?
just ageing and the legs are the first thing to "go" in a fighters arsenal ?
or is it actually loosing stength in the Hips ?
what are the theories and what famous fights did a fighters legs "go" and never came back ?

[gilgamesh]

Well years of jogging adds up to damage on the knees as you age, getting knocked down in fights and falling awkwardly as has been known to happen to fighters probably isn't doing your legs any favor, and just all around stiffer bones as you age too.

Hips might have something to do with it too.

[APerno]

I am facing my 62nd birthday - you lose everything. - They say the last thing to go is a fighter's punch, the first thing his legs. I suspect my general reflexes are all much slower than they use to be . . . and I feel my lower back gives out before my actual leg muscles do . . . and I don't mean lifting things either, but just from general moving about.

[Counter-puncher]

Clearest example I ever saw was Rafa Marquez between the first and third Vasquez fights. His legs were clearly not the same in the third fight.

[APerno]

They say Corbett was out boxing Jefferies again in 1903 when (Corbett claimed) his legs just left him. It was his last fight.

[Caractacus]

yeah, I got sick a few years ago (potassium level fell really really low)
and as a result I lost about 90 percent of the strength I had in my hips
but my legs feel strong still.
really affected my side to side movement tho.

[Caractacus]

Joe Louis legs went out on him before the Marciano fight,
and they tried to improve Louis's loss of leg strength by putting weights on his shoes when he did his roadwork.

[Caractacus]

I am facing my 62nd birthday - you lose everything. - They say the last thing to go is a fighter's punch, the first thing his legs. I suspect my general reflexes are all much slower than they use to be . . . and I feel my lower back gives out before my actual leg muscles do . . . and I don't mean lifting things either, but just from general moving about.

I think reflexes go first.
I remember when I use to take a shower if the bar of soap bar slipped out its holder at chest level I could always catch it before it fell into the tubb,
but after about 35, you see it slip out,but your body doesnt re-act fast enough to catch it anymore,and you wonder why u couldnt react when u saw the bar slip.

[sweetviolenturge]

Am I correct in assuming that I'm the first former pro fighter to reply to the question at hand?
OK, If you want a visual aid as to when a fighter's legs are suddenly just "gone", all you'll need to do is find a copy of Bernard Hopkin's bout w/ Smith from this past weekend & compare it to his previous fight w/ Kovalev & you'll notice the difference.
Hopkin's still had his legs against Kovalev. Had he not, Kovalev would have KO'd him in about three or four rounds, but because he still had them, he was still able to access survival mode & drop a one-sided decision.
It's apparent right from the opening seconds of Hopkin's bout this weekend that his legs were, indeed, "gone". "How?" you may ask, because he plodded out of his corner rather than bounced out. There was no spring to his steps, meaning that his legs were dead & heavy. And his hips were tight, meaning that he couldn't slip & avoid punches like he used to.
That Hopkins was able to get by on simple guile & experience until the eighth round against as big of a puncher as Smith was impressive in it's own right.

As for what it feels like to be in the ring when your legs are gone, it's feels like as soon as the bell rings for the first round, your legs suddenly feel as if they've been hampered by having just done a couple hundred squats. They're heavy, trembly & lifeless. And the idea of having to use them to get out of range of your opponents punches is sometimes more taxing than simply staying there & taking them.
And, yeah, the hips are very much involved when it comes to slipping shots & making an opponent miss, so nice, young, energetic, loose hips = good. Bad, old, worn out, tight hips = Bad.

[lazboy]

Am I correct in assuming that I'm the first former pro fighter to reply to the question at hand?
OK, If you want a visual aid as to when a fighter's legs are suddenly just "gone", all you'll need to do is find a copy of Bernard Hopkin's bout w/ Smith from this past weekend & compare it to his previous fight w/ Kovalev & you'll notice the difference.
Hopkin's still had his legs against Kovalev. Had he not, Kovalev would have KO'd him in about three or four rounds, but because he still had them, he was still able to access survival mode & drop a one-sided decision.
It's apparent right from the opening seconds of Hopkin's bout this weekend that his legs were, indeed, "gone". "How?" you may ask, because he plodded out of his corner rather than bounced out. There was no spring to his steps, meaning that his legs were dead & heavy. And his hips were tight, meaning that he couldn't slip & avoid punches like he used to.
That Hopkins was able to get by on simple guile & experience until the eighth round against as big of a puncher as Smith was impressive in it's own right.

As for what it feels like to be in the ring when your legs are gone, it's feels like as soon as the bell rings for the first round, your legs suddenly feel as if they've been hampered by having just done a couple hundred squats. They're heavy, trembly & lifeless. And the idea of having to use them to get out of range of your opponents punches is sometimes more taxing than simply staying there & taking them.
And, yeah, the hips are very much involved when it comes to slipping shots & making an opponent miss, so nice, young, energetic, loose hips = good. Bad, old, worn out, tight hips = Bad.

This is interesting. How old when you start to notice it or is it just relative? I always remember hearing that after 30 the body slowly begins to deteriorate but with all the new science training and more up to date human body info this is probably out of date. Yea Hopkins is a great example, his legs ruined any power he had. Also i watched Leonard - Terry Norris recently. His legs were just so slow and awkward.

Back on Hopkins though, surely he would have felt it in sparring, maybe not so much on the bag because that's stationary. I wonder how his sparring did go. Maybe thats why he was trying to intimidate smith so much in the presser or maybe he was in denial.

[sweetviolenturge]

I still had some life left in my legs well into my thirties, but then, around 38, I took a couple three years off from any sort of heavy training. But, then I was offered an exhibition match with another 40-something former pro, so I began training again at 42 & early on, while just moving around the ring doing some shadowboxing I realized something was def "up" because there was no bounce left in my thighs or calves. For so many years, even if I'd gotten out of condition, I could always glide around the ring for a round or two. But, that time it felt like the ring's padding was fornicating quicksand & I was gasping for oxygen about a minute or two.
It was awful but inevitable.

As for when it must have first hit B-Hop, I'm convinced that he knew going into the bout.
But, fighters are often delusional by nature, so he probably thought that they ( his legs ) would come back to him when the bell rang for the first round. Then, when that ( obviously ) didn't occur, he likely figured that he could still get away with going through the motions for ten rounds & come away with a decision win.
Which, had he chosen a more run of the mill opponent he'd have no doubt done so, but his ego chose his fate & rather than taking on someone along the the lines of a Tommy Karpency whom he may have been able to eek out a disputed nod over in his final go, but instead Hopkins chose a young, hungry, KO puncher coming off of his biggest victory as a pro, a KO1 over a fighter that Hopkins would likely be an underdog to if he & Fonfara to meet.

[lazboy]

I still had some life left in my legs well into my thirties, but then, around 38, I took a couple three years off from any sort of heavy training. But, then I was offered an exhibition match with another 40-something former pro, so I began training again at 42 & early on, while just moving around the ring doing some shadowboxing I realized something was def "up" because there was no bounce left in my thighs or calves. For so many years, even if I'd gotten out of condition, I could always glide around the ring for a round or two. But, that time it felt like the ring's padding was effing quicksand & I was gasping for oxygen about a minute or two.
It was awful but inevitable.

As for when it must have first hit B-Hop, I'm convinced that he knew going into the bout.
But, fighters are often delusional by nature, so he probably thought that they ( his legs ) would come back to him when the bell rang for the first round. Then, when that ( obviously ) didn't occur, he likely figured that he could still get away with going through the motions for ten rounds & come away with a decision win.
Which, had he chosen a more run of the mill opponent he'd have no doubt done so, but his ego chose his fate & rather than taking on someone along the the lines of a Tommy Karpency whom he may have been able to eek out a disputed nod over in his final go, but instead Hopkins chose a young, hungry, KO puncher coming off of his biggest victory as a pro, a KO1 over a fighter that Hopkins would likely be an underdog to if he & Fonfara to meet.

Good chat mate, good info.

Yes Hopkins and his ego, truth came out in the ring. Shame about the ending though if he'd only been punched out not pushed out.....haha

[littlepug]

I still had some life left in my legs well into my thirties, but then, around 38, I took a couple three years off from any sort of heavy training. But, then I was offered an exhibition match with another 40-something former pro, so I began training again at 42 & early on, while just moving around the ring doing some shadowboxing I realized something was def "up" because there was no bounce left in my thighs or calves. For so many years, even if I'd gotten out of condition, I could always glide around the ring for a round or two. But, that time it felt like the ring's padding was effing quicksand & I was gasping for oxygen about a minute or two.
It was awful but inevitable.

As for when it must have first hit B-Hop, I'm convinced that he knew going into the bout.
But, fighters are often delusional by nature, so he probably thought that they ( his legs ) would come back to him when the bell rang for the first round. Then, when that ( obviously ) didn't occur, he likely figured that he could still get away with going through the motions for ten rounds & come away with a decision win.
Which, had he chosen a more run of the mill opponent he'd have no doubt done so, but his ego chose his fate & rather than taking on someone along the the lines of a Tommy Karpency whom he may have been able to eek out a disputed nod over in his final go, but instead Hopkins chose a young, hungry, KO puncher coming off of his biggest victory as a pro, a KO1 over a fighter that Hopkins would likely be an underdog to if he & Fonfara to meet.

hopkins must of known his legs were gone its impossible not to, i recently started training again at the age of 43 after having my last pro fight in 1999 and christ my legs are weak as eff, they will get stronger as i get fitter but i can tell they are effectively "gone"

[Kalan]

What are the usuall reasons ?
just ageing and the legs are the first thing to "go" in a fighters arsenal ?
or is it actually loosing stength in the Hips ?
what are the theories and what famous fights did a fighters legs "go" and never came back ?

Your legs could "go" at 30 or they could go at 80.. I have an 85-year-old friend who likes to run high hurdles.. He's really lean with a lot of bounce in his legs. You might take him for 60, but not 85. His kids look older than him and they're jealous. They missed the youth gene or whatever it is. He might be one of those guys who lives to 110 or more. It's the way the genes line up when a unique egg unites with a unique sperm. You could be tall, short, dumb, smart, athletic or non-athletic, beautiful or not so good looking, hard driven or a lazy ass. You have a free will though. You can love cigarettes but give them up completely. You can be a naturally violent person who controls his temper very well. Each person is driven to different pursuits by his own unique genetic makeup.. Sometimes people get involved in work they're not cut out for but eventually do very well.. The plasticity of the brain will adapt to an environment and make a lot of changes if it's driven hard enough by human will. But each individual body only has a certain potential you can't push it beyond.

[Caractacus]

What are the usuall reasons ?
just ageing and the legs are the first thing to "go" in a fighters arsenal ?
or is it actually loosing stength in the Hips ?
what are the theories and what famous fights did a fighters legs "go" and never came back ?

Your legs could "go" at 30 or they could go at 80.. I have an 85-year-old friend who likes to run high hurdles.. He's really lean with a lot of bounce in his legs. You might take him for 60, but not 85. His kids look older than him and they're jealous. They missed the youth gene or whatever it is. He might be one of those guys who lives to 110 or more. It's the way the genes line up when a unique egg unites with a unique sperm. You could be tall, short, dumb, smart, athletic or non-athletic, beautiful or not so good looking, hard driven or a lazy ass. You have a free will though. You can love cigarettes but give them up completely. You can be a naturally violent person who controls his temper very well. Each person is driven to different pursuits by his own unique genetic makeup.. Sometimes people get involved in work they're not cut out for but eventually do very well.. The plasticity of the brain will adapt to an environment and make a lot of changes if it's driven hard enough by human will. But each individual body only has a certain potential you can't push it beyond.

How old were you when you'r legs went ?
(and I still say the problem still has more to do with the hips)

[Caractacus]

could hardly even believe that this was "the Sniper" when I first seen this clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8Or_cL5tHc

[Bodyshot3]

I don't understand the technicalties to be frank but it does appear to be a fighter-by-fighter thing and seems actually quite unpredictable.

Benn suddenly went from being a guy who could get straight up from being hit by a truck and immediately swarm forward and use his legs and hips to deliver vicious power shots.

But suddenly all that recovery and drive from below deserted him and overnight he was clumping around after Malinga!

In his prime, Benn was very swift across the ring and was generating a great deal of his venom with shots that came from down low.

Conversely, Nigel's bete noire Eubank was never 'leggy' even when he was chancing his arm up against cruiserweights and a veteran with many miles on the clock; but he was not the feared/explosive puncher Nigel was.

I can remember Eubank moving well and asking questions of a very fast, prime Calazaghe for example. His legs were really working.

Using these two as a comparison might be too limiting and other factors contributed to their decline; but I think that Eubank was perhaps the wiser trainer and Benn's ball-breakng runs up mountains in Tenerife were great at the time but hastened his decline.

[Kalan]

What are the usuall reasons ?
just ageing and the legs are the first thing to "go" in a fighters arsenal ?
or is it actually loosing stength in the Hips ?
what are the theories and what famous fights did a fighters legs "go" and never came back ?

Your legs could "go" at 30 or they could go at 80.. I have an 85-year-old friend who likes to run high hurdles.. He's really lean with a lot of bounce in his legs. You might take him for 60, but not 85. His kids look older than him and they're jealous. They missed the youth gene or whatever it is. He might be one of those guys who lives to 110 or more. It's the way the genes line up when a unique egg unites with a unique sperm. You could be tall, short, dumb, smart, athletic or non-athletic, beautiful or not so good looking, hard driven or a lazy ass. You have a free will though. You can love cigarettes but give them up completely. You can be a naturally violent person who controls his temper very well. Each person is driven to different pursuits by his own unique genetic makeup.. Sometimes people get involved in work they're not cut out for but eventually do very well.. The plasticity of the brain will adapt to an environment and make a lot of changes if it's driven hard enough by human will. But each individual body only has a certain potential you can't push it beyond.

How old were you when you'r legs went ?
(and I still say the problem still has more to do with the hips)

My legs never went... I can still sprint, jump, and swing dance all night whenever I want in my 70's... But obviously different joints break down on different people... Some guys have bad feet... Some bad hands... Some bad knees... For some the hips joints could be a problem... Many have back problems... Shoulder problems have wrecked a lot of boxers' careers... Vernon Forrest had ongoing issues with his left shoulder and elbow... Kostya Tszyu's left shoulder went and he retired at 36.

When people say "The legs go first" That's not true. Anything can go first. Many boxers used to jump rope on wooden floors instead of a rubber mat... Some jump in the ring which is good, because it's padded... Many boxers in the old days ran for miles in the morning on streets, sidewalks, and generally unforgiving surfaces for years and years... And they'd run real slow---which means your feet hit the ground harder with each step.. You should run fast like at least a mile every 6 minutes -- so your feet get a better workout and you don't hit the ground as hard with each stride... If you can only run 1 mile that's perfectly okay but do it at a very hard pace... Build it up slowly until you can run 5 miles at a 6 minute per mile pace, but it takes a few years... you don't start out fighting 12-round fights so you don't have to run that far in the beginning... But don't run slow for an hour on streets and sidewalks if you want great legs 15 years later.

[Caractacus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGbpucWLfpE

[lazboy]

Speaking of fighters who's legs are shot or close to it. In my humble opinion. Vlad klit, Adonis Stevenson Is looking weary, Luis Ortiz doesn't have much in them. There was one other notable fighter but I can't remember now.

[Caractacus]

Muhammad Ali looked pretty good moving around in the ring against Rocky Marciano
in THE SUPERFIGHT (1969)
but he looked like he lost a lot of his ring movement just over a year later when he fought Oscar Bonavena in December 1970.

[Kalan]

Ali didn't lose any movement at all... Look at the Jimmy Ellis fight because at 220 he moved really well... What Ali lost was not his legs but his brain... He got hit so much that it had a detrimental effect on his motor skills -- so the more he got ht, the more he got hit, so to speak.

[jaclem3]

to see a fighter execute when his legs, if not gone, were damn near a part of his past, look at joe walcott in the first marciano fight. brilliant boxing and punching while his back was near or on the ropes.

chalkey wright was famous for boxing off the ropes. i've never seen him on film, though. i'm just going on reputation and quotes from men who fought him.

archie moore started training when he was younger for the days when he could no longer glide around the ring, and it served him well.

[Kalan]

Walcott was anything but a brilliant boxer... He got hit with straight shots down the pipe... Jack Fox and Abe Simon got him too... He got knocked out a few times... He could have gotten up from his 1st Marciano knockdown in the rematch.. He was watching the referee following the count closely and waited for "10" to get up... He did a Charles Martin. But he was cashing out... They had the car warmed up and he was getting out of there.

[jaclem3]

i said walcott gave brilliant exhibition of boxing while on the ropes in the first marciano fight, which is correct. i did not comment on his over all career, but i agree with you about that.