Primo Carnera, How good?

Crease · Post by **Crease** » 07 Mar 2006, 09:18

In your opinion boys, how good was the late great, Primo Carnera?

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 07 Mar 2006, 12:53

Not Good. Take a read at this...
http://www.boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... mo+carnera

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 07 Mar 2006, 15:03

dammit boxy...i knew you'd beat me to it. :x

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 08 Mar 2006, 00:52

I think hes a bit underated after seeing him on film. he had decent skills for a big man. also, ur not a bad fighter if you can outboint a guy like tommy loughran. prime carnera actually beat some pretty good heavies of 20s and 30s.

did sharkey run into the punch on purpose? quite possibly, but it did seem to have a lot of force behind it.

i think carnera was better than willard

sockdolager · Post by **sockdolager** » 08 Mar 2006, 07:29

Do you guys think Carnera was better than Valuev is now? I know that he was involved in a lot of fixed fights, but it would seem that he posessed some skill.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 08 Mar 2006, 07:33

sockdollanger wrote:Do you guys think Carnera was better than Valuev is now? I know that he was involved in a lot of fixed fights, but it would seem that he posessed some skill.

way better

sockdolager · Post by **sockdolager** » 08 Mar 2006, 07:40

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
sockdollanger wrote:Do you guys think Carnera was better than Valuev is now? I know that he was involved in a lot of fixed fights, but it would seem that he posessed some skill.
way better

if he was "way better" than Valuev, why is he given such a bad rap? There is no way he is the worst HW champ of all time! Valuev has got to be up there though!

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 08 Mar 2006, 22:09

Carnera will forever be one of the most under-rated Heavyweights in history---and by and large it is warranted.

Here was a man standing in excess of 6'5" and weighing anywhere from 250-275 pounds, when most heavyweights rarely exceeded 220. He was quite a sight to see in those days, he was a major attraction wherever he went.

Carnera did very well in Europe, but it was his "tank town" tours all over the United States that made him famous---he was being constantly shown with much smaller men to exaggerate his height (i.e. 6'8" to 6'10"), and of course fight men who were either over the hill or 2nd rate---so he would make them look like push overs.

His 85" reach and gigantic fists (15" around) helped him immensely, as did his weight. He was a very lumbering man, but he knew how to use his size to his advantage. In an era when people didnt have great knock out records, Carnera was quite the man to watch as he dropped most of his opponents.

His career was built on hype, because he was so damn big. He was the epitomy of the word GIANT in those days. It was hard to tell if he was any good, considering the mixed bag of nobodies, pretenders and former contenders he faced early on.

I would say it wasn't until 1930-31 that the "Ambling Alp" showed he could fair good against the much better fighters, but still came short of beating men like Jack Sharkey.

It was his win over Ernie Schaaf that put Carnera into title contention, and greater noteriety as Schaaf died from brain injuries sustained from the fight (which are now believed to have been from his previous match with Max Baer)----and this is where the controversy comes.

When he faced Jack Sharkey for the title, there was rumors even then that the "Boston Gob" would go into the tank for the giant Italian. Myself, I do not know if this is true, I think it was more or less a lucky punch and that Sharkey was on the downside anyways---but myself, I think it's considered a dive, because of how easy Sharkey beat Carnera before.

Carnera made two defenses, against Uzcudun and Loughran. Loughran is easily one of the better Light Heavyweights of all time---but it is my belief that Carnera wasn't really affected by his punches, as Loughran wasn't known for his big punching prowess, so Carnera had no reason to be afraid of him, so he picked his shots.

Unfortunately, I think Carnera will be forever remembered for the Baer fight. Knocked down eleven times, four in the first round. Whatever Carnera had before, was ultimately lost---much like Tyson's aura of invincibility was gone after losing to Buster Douglas.

After the loss to Baer, Carnera became a movie star and kept fighting off and on until 1946. His last memorable bout was against Joe Louis, who was a rising contender---and was knocked out in 6 bloody rounds by the Brown Bomber.

Carnera later became a professional wrestler, going undefeated in 365 bouts---until Argentine Rocca defeated him. Despite the Hollywood roles and wrestling, Carnera died penniless.

Leaving a record of 88-15 (70). As an interesting bit of side not information, Carnera sued MGM for the movie THE HARDER THEY FALL, saying the movie, whose plot centered around a giant dumb lumbering Heavyweight who won the title by a dive from the champion, was ripping off his life story and defaming his name---he didnt win the court battle.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 08 Mar 2006, 22:12

I think Max Baer was in that Movie.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 09 Mar 2006, 03:08

..max baer played a character based a lot on himself.....but nastier. lou nova played a part based on ernie schaff. the movie is based on the novel by budd schulberg, which indded was inspired by the carnera story. the book, however, is not the attack on boixing that the movie is.the mivie ends with the press agent, played by bogart, writes a story that begins with boxing eithe rbeibng banned or controlled by congress ..i forget which...and schullberg complained about this. he remained aboxing fan and wrote about it from time to time and even ahjd a controlling interest ina few fighters. i say "remained" in the past tense, as i haven't read anything about him lately, but he may still be a follower

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 09 Mar 2006, 14:33

Never have I been so close to dismantling a thread based on no boxing content. However I know my thoughts about Primo are opinion only and should never cloud my judgement when acting as a moderator.

I went back and looked at the record and found that indeed a Heavyweight named Primo Carnera did participate in the sport of boxing so technically this is not an "off topic" thread which means I can not touch it, harm it, lock it or delete it. In fact it is my sworn duty as a member of the Moderator's union, to uphold it's right to exist and keep it out of harms way.

As long as this stays civil and on topic there is literally nothing I can do about it....I'm totaly powerless.

Damn

Where are the trolls when you need them?

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 09 Mar 2006, 14:38

..correction to my movie post..it was pat comisky, not lou nova, who played the ernie schaff based character. while i'm here....add that jersey joe walcott had a role in the movie.

both comisky and jersey joe....at that point in their retired careers could have beaten carnera. in fact, the actor (a wrestler) who played the part of the carnera character, could have beaten carnera. bnox buzz could have beaten carnera.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 09 Mar 2006, 14:40

Thank you Jaclem for that vote of confidence....I think.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 09 Mar 2006, 17:02

...buzz..you think..therefore you are...

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 09 Mar 2006, 18:22

Well it's just that you can pick 5 names out of the phone book at random and 4 of them are likely going to be able to......well never mind.

TheRiverCityHippy · Post by **TheRiverCityHippy** » 10 Mar 2006, 14:24

after his boxing career ended didnt he go back to italy in the 40`s and fight against the germans and the fascist regime of mussolini?
i`m sure i read somewhere on arriving home he took to the hills and joined a french resistance type outfit ( but an italian one, if you catch my drift) that blew up railway tracks, telephone poles, breaking lines of communication....that kind of thing.
i think he lived to a fair old age too.

THE DANCING MASTER · Post by **THE DANCING MASTER** » 10 Mar 2006, 16:43

I always Carnera was a bit underrated and somewhat better than he has ever been given credit for. If nothing else he had courage. He kept getting up against Baer.

Jaclem, I believe the words were "professional boxing in this country should be outlawed if it takes an act of Congress to do it." I'll watch my DVD of it this weekend to verify.

Primo was also in On The Waterfront.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 11 Mar 2006, 03:10

..dancing master....the words you quote from the movie sound right to me. i don't own it and haven't seen it in many years, but i'm sure you have them nailed. thanks.