28.06.1950. Rocky Graziano vs Jake La Motta

[klompton]

lol at praising chris eubanks work rate. the reason he has as many losses, and close/controversial decisions is specifically because his work rate often sucked. If Steve Collins beat Eubank on nothing but activity and grit what would LaMotta do to him??? LaMotta took shits that were better fighters than Steve fornicating Collins.

[elmersalsa]

Of what I have seen of The Raging Bull, the great Jake LaMotta, he was a great fighter watching him on videotape. He wasn't just a brute guy. Rocky Graziano was a brute. A guy like Graziano could never beat someone like LaMotta ten out of ten times. LaMotta was clearly better.

[Kalan]

You just spouted a ton of BULLCRAP... I never said Tyson sucked... He was a great fighter and would have murdered Ali and any champ from the 1950's.

I didn't say Lewis was in perfect condition... But he had months to train for a Heavyweight Championship Fight -- Vitali Klitschko had 2 weeks

I never said Frazier wasn't any good... I said he was short, fat, easy to hit, and was quickly destroyed by the only big, tall, powerful, and rock-solidly trained Heavyweight he ever faced... He was a snowball in Hell v Foreman... However he did beat a lot of undersized challengers and was a good fighter.

Robinson DID fight weak comp... Fullmer was a plodding light hitter... Basilio was a little short guy... Paul Pender was built like Mr Rogers... LaMotta leaned in with his head and was very easy to hit.. LaMotta barely won his fight previous to Robinson by a miracle KO with 13 seconds to go.

Vitali Klitschko was never floored and never behind on points after any fight... That's not drivel -- what other retired Heavyweight Champion can say that?

You spout a lot of nonsense... Consecutive Title Defenses has always been one of the Gold Standard stats for judging a boxer's ATG career.

Just wanted to follow up with Kalan's recent claim that he never said Tyson sucked or that Lewis was in perfect condition for the Klitschko fight. (Read above what is in bold.)
On the Vitali Klitscho vs Mike Tyson thread (December 23) he said these things. Play attention below to what he wrote that is in bold:

"Tyson sucked... 42-1 underdog Buster Douglas.. Who was a lot shorter and smaller than Vitali Klitschko, but dwarfed Mike Tyson. He beat the living crap out Tyson and put him out with brutal smashes... Tyson was as short as the flabby little Frazier and he couldn't avoid those punches... Douglas was so big and long and fast, that all he had to do was throw and he hit Mike right in the face... He was big and strong enough to get Mike out.

You can't compare Vitali to big, stiff, slow guys like Michael Grant... Tomasz Adamek easily out boxed a 38-year-old Grant and beat him -- but Vitali Klitschko won every minute of every round from Adamek and stopped him -- so there's no comparison... Lewis did beat Grant by fouling the poo out of him and holding and hitting like crazy. He destroyed him quickly but should have been DQ'd ... He could't do that to Vitali who completely out-boxed Lewis and was winning on all scorecards after 6 rounds... The fight should have gone to the scorecards because those cuts were slashed opened by foul blows... Lewis was in perfect vs Vital condition... He averaged over 250 for his final 6 fights and deliberately added weight to be much stronger."




Kalan has been caught in a blatant lie. Why should believe anything that he says?

Kalan caught telling porky pies.... oh dear. You have three choices Mr Kalan.

1. Admit your guilt and take it like a man.
2. Admit that you are nothing more than a troll.
3. Behave like a child and never mention it again.

You're a troll... You do nothing but bitch and moan and save every comment I ever made... Tyson sucked for only a few fights.. A lot of guys suck for 1 or 2 fights even though they're a great fighter... Tyson was great and sucked very few times.. I thought Lewis was in real good condition for Vitali.. You could see his abs.. no fat hanging anywhere on his body.. just big and strong.. Perfect was only a slight exaggeration. I can't believe I said that, but it's not what I meant.. A lot of people use the word perfect when they mean good, as in "All right..perfect.. I'll see you in 2 hours"

[Tomasino]

Just wanted to follow up with Kalan's recent claim that he never said Tyson sucked or that Lewis was in perfect condition for the Klitschko fight. (Read above what is in bold.)
On the Vitali Klitscho vs Mike Tyson thread (December 23) he said these things. Play attention below to what he wrote that is in bold:

"Tyson sucked... 42-1 underdog Buster Douglas.. Who was a lot shorter and smaller than Vitali Klitschko, but dwarfed Mike Tyson. He beat the living crap out Tyson and put him out with brutal smashes... Tyson was as short as the flabby little Frazier and he couldn't avoid those punches... Douglas was so big and long and fast, that all he had to do was throw and he hit Mike right in the face... He was big and strong enough to get Mike out.

You can't compare Vitali to big, stiff, slow guys like Michael Grant... Tomasz Adamek easily out boxed a 38-year-old Grant and beat him -- but Vitali Klitschko won every minute of every round from Adamek and stopped him -- so there's no comparison... Lewis did beat Grant by fouling the poo out of him and holding and hitting like crazy. He destroyed him quickly but should have been DQ'd ... He could't do that to Vitali who completely out-boxed Lewis and was winning on all scorecards after 6 rounds... The fight should have gone to the scorecards because those cuts were slashed opened by foul blows... Lewis was in perfect vs Vital condition... He averaged over 250 for his final 6 fights and deliberately added weight to be much stronger."




Kalan has been caught in a blatant lie. Why should believe anything that he says?

Kalan caught telling porky pies.... oh dear. You have three choices Mr Kalan.

1. Admit your guilt and take it like a man.
2. Admit that you are nothing more than a troll.
3. Behave like a child and never mention it again.

You're a troll... You do nothing but bitch and moan and save every comment I ever made... Tyson sucked for only a few fights.. A lot of guys suck for 1 or 2 fights even though they're a great fighter... Tyson was great and sucked very few times.. I thought Lewis was in real good condition for Vitali.. You could see his abs.. no fat hanging anywhere on his body.. just big and strong.. Perfect was only a slight exaggeration. I can't believe I said that, but it's not what I meant.. A lot of people use the word perfect when they mean good, as in "All right..perfect.. I'll see you in 2 hours"

Kalan, this is getting to be seriously pathetic. You come on here, insult the memebers of the forum personally, you attempt to insult our intelligence and, most pointless of all, you insult the great fighters we log on here to discuss. Why? What do you hope to gain out of this charade, day by day?

Obviously you enjoy telling lies and antagonising people or you wouldn't be on here doing it. But the question is, why? You seek to use Anthony Joshua's rather abysmal fight record to elevate him to ATG status, but nobody else on the forum is interested in this view, because we all know Joshua has fought absolutely nobody. Why?

I dislike your online persona. Everybody does. I've not seen a poster so disliked and disregarded as you on this forum. My advice is for you to delete this account, and never log in to boxrec forum again. You will feel better in yourself by doing this. You could spend your free time actually watching fights and learning the basics of boxing, in a few years you might be able to hold your own in a boxing debate, instead of this tragic waste of time you have indulged in.

I wish you all the best for your education and mental health. Good bye.

[Kalan]

Mental health is something that eludes you Tomasino.. FO you dingleberry

[Tomasino]

Mental health is something that eludes you Tomasino.. FO you dingleberry

Probably your most intelligent post. I wish you all the best for the new year, hopefully it's a better one for you than 2016.

[Kalan]

Yeah... here's mud in your eye... and what's that brown stuff on your nose?

[Tomasino]

Yeah... here's mud in your eye... and what's that brown stuff on your nose?

Are you still here?

[sugarramos]

I think lammotta by UD or TKO I think he would smother rocky and out work him for 15 rounds

[Nile4000]

Being that both are childhood friends, the fight would be hindered psychologically, and would be a snoozefest, which LaMotta would win by split decision over Graziano.

[540771]

Rocky Graziano was rated by the Ring Magazine (2022)as the 21st hardest puncher of all time. Jake LaMotta was not listed in this category of the 100 hardest punchers of all time. Of Rocky's 67 victories 52 were by KO or TKO (78%). Of Jake LaMotta's 83 victories 30 were by KO or TKO (36%). LaMotta was a better boxer and was tough, and both men were emotional fighters. I think Graziano's heavier punches would shake LaMotta and interfere with his overall strategy. Both men would slug it out and both had great endurance. A bout between the two was scheduled for 1950, but never happened. In 1950 Lamotta was vulnerable to to a hard puncher like Graziano. LaMotta suffered two TKOs in 1951, one by Sugar Ray Robinson, and the other by Bob Murphy. Rocky would score a TKO in the later rounds.

[klompton]

Had Graziano fought the level of competition that Jake fought his KO% would be anemic and hed have a hell of a lot more losses. Jake took punches from Bon Satterfield who hit WAY harder than Graziano. Graziano wouldnt dent Jake and more to the point Graziano ducked two fights with Jake, he knew something his fans didnt.

[Caractacus]

At some point Rocky Graziano just lost his "demon" in fighting.
Another fight that Jake La Motta really wanted around that time was to fight Rocky Marciano.

[Caractacus]

-Tale of the Tape-
( from June 1949)

Jake LaMotta--------------Rocky Graziano

age 26 yrs

height- 5 ft 7.5" ------height- 5ft 8 and one-fourth inches

weight-160 lbs ------weight-157 lbs

neck-16.5" inches---------16 inches

reach-68 inches---------68 and one-half inches

biceps-13 inches--------13.5 inches
forearm- 11 inches ------11.5 inches
Fist-11.5 inches----------9 inches

chest(normal)-41 inches--------38.5 inches
chest(expanded)-45-----------40 and one-third inches'

waist-33"---------31 and one-fourth inches
thigh-22"---------21 and one-third inches
calf--14 and one-fourth inches------14 and three-fourth inches
ankle-9.5"------9 and three-fourth inches

[cfang]

Rocky has no chance against jake. One thing this thread reminded me was how annoying kalan was lol.


quote=Caractacus post_id=5967947 time=1701985023 user_id=101691]
-Tale of the Tape-
( from June 1949)

Jake LaMotta--------------Rocky Graziano

age 26 yrs

height- 5 ft 7.5" ------height- 5ft 8 and one-fourth inches

weight-160 lbs ------weight-157 lbs

neck-16.5" inches---------16 inches

reach-68 inches---------68 and one-half inches

biceps-13 inches--------13.5 inches
forearm- 11 inches ------11.5 inches
Fist-11.5 inches----------9 inches

chest(normal)-41 inches--------38.5 inches
chest(expanded)-45-----------40 and one-third inches'

waist-33"---------31 and one-fourth inches
thigh-22"---------21 and one-third inches
calf--14 and one-fourth inches------14 and three-fourth inches
ankle-9.5"------9 and three-fourth inches
[/quote]

[Caractacus]

Reportedly Jake LaMotta use to always get the best of Rocky Graziano,
when they had street fights when were both "yoots" back in Brooklyn NYC.

[Caractacus]

Graziano wrote in his autobiography, that he was never the same after the third Zale fight,all of the "poison" in his system
that made him such a fierce fighter, suddenly left when he was knocked out bu Sugar Ray Robinson in 1952.

[Ambling Alp II]

Rocky has no chance against jake. One thing this thread reminded me was how annoying kalan was lol.

There used to be so many knowledgeable people on this Forum. Some left because of people like Kalan. It used to be a lot of fun.

[Expug]

Let’s get it back on track. I got Jake winning fairly easily. Rocky is always dangerous with that big right hand. But , Jake had that chin could withstand a helluva lot. But, I got him winning by out working Rocky over the haul. Also Jake’s defense was a bit underrated. He rolled with a lot of those shots. Little more clever than folks give him credit for.

[Ambling Alp II]

If I was around at the time, I'm sure I would have been rooting for Graziano. He was a good guy and LaMotta was.... despicable. As for what would happened: Agree that Graziano had the bigger punch, but it probably would not have been enough to stop LaMotta. On the other hand, LaMotta didn't have much power and probably would not have been able to stop Graziano. Assuming this is a 10-round fight it would almost for sure have gone the distance, unless one of them got cut. Best guess is that LaMotta wins 6 out 10 rounds to take the decision. Would have been very fun to watch.

[Caractacus]

I was surprised with the "Tale of the Tape"
figured LaMotta would be physically just a bit bigger then Graziano, but he wasn't.
while coming up the ranks, Graziano fought some blown-up welterweights.
but Jake Lamotta fought opponents much bigger then himself.
The question is, if Graziano had landed some of his right hands on LaMotta (flush)
would it have knocked La Motta out ?
( I don't think so)

[Caractacus]

The real reason that it never happened was because they both had the same trainer at Stillman's gym in NYC ,
Al Salvini.
Graziano approached him for the proposed LaMotta fight,
but Salvini told him ,sorry but that he was gonna be in LaMotta's corer,so Graziano dropped out of it.

[klompton]

The real reason that it never happened was because they both had the same trainer at Stillman's gym in NYC ,
Al Salvini.
Graziano approached him for the proposed LaMotta fight,
but Salvini told him ,sorry but that he was gonna be in LaMotta's corer,so Graziano dropped out of it.

This untrue for so many reasons. First, Bimstein was Grazianos chief trainer. LaMotta used Silvani as corner man but he was strictly a hired gun. LaMotta was primarily self trained and for the purse that a Graziano fight would have brought he would have dumped Silvani and gotten another cornerman. LaMotta wantes that fight bad. But, Graziano broke his hand in what several contemporaries at the time said was a deliberate attempt to get out of the match.

[Caractacus]

well, that is what I had read .
Would you like the source ?

[surf-bat]

The real reason that it never happened was because they both had the same trainer at Stillman's gym in NYC ,

In all honesty, it's doubtful that Graziano's people ever would have allowed him anywhere near Jake. Click on the link and check out the rankings from the time he appears in 1945 to when he becomes champion. How many contenders did he fight? Not too many. He was an exciting fighter, no doubt. But his ascension is a case study in steering clear of risks. I don't think Rocky was afraid. But his management sure was.


https://boxrec.com/wiki/index.php/The_R ... ght--1940s