Big heavyweights vs Smaller great heavyweights.

[Boxerbeetle]

I'd suggest we all (the forum users who know boxing) just ignore this loser Kalan from now on.

Yes it's tempting to poke him with a stick, he always reacts the way you expect and posts some hilariously uninformed rubbish but it's clogging the forum up with pure bullshit and I'm now seeing people try their best to find common ground with him, only for him to insult them and post more dog poo.

It's just a suggestion

He's a complete idiot, worst poster on the entire forum. And I'm including bnovelist in that.

[Kalan]

LMFAO... Tomasino...the dumbest turd who ever inhabited a toilet -- who replies to every post I write. Not with content -- but the jibberish of a 2-year-old.

[Kalan]

Anthony Joshua greater than Smokin' Joe? My ass!

Oh my goodness... Antony Joshua is only 6'6" X 245.. undefeated while winning all his fights by KO.. and a Heavyweight Champion... How big was Smokin'?

A lot of idiots made Frazier a 4/1 favorite to beat the 6'3" X 217 George Foreman---who was easy to hit by a good boxer... Too bad Smokin' wasn't one.

[keithmoonhangover]

Anthony Joshua greater than Smokin' Joe? My ass!

Oh my goodness... Antony Joshua is only 6'6" X 245.. undefeated while winning all his fights by KO.. and a Heavyweight Champion... How big was Smokin'?

A lot of idiots made Frazier a 4/1 favorite to beat the 6'3" X 217 George Foreman---who was easy to hit by a good boxer... Too bad Smokin' wasn't one.

But as has been proven on this forum, size isn't everything.

Joshua is unbeaten, but who has he beaten that's as good as Ali was then Frazier beat him?

[elmersalsa]

Anthony Joshua greater than Smokin' Joe? My ass!

Oh my goodness... Antony Joshua is only 6'6" X 245.. undefeated while winning all his fights by KO.. and a Heavyweight Champion... How big was Smokin'?

A lot of idiots made Frazier a 4/1 favorite to beat the 6'3" X 217 George Foreman---who was easy to hit by a good boxer... Too bad Smokin' wasn't one.

Kalan, you're away from reality. Anthony Joshua could be super man in your eyes. He is not impressive. Nobody cares about him.

[Kalan]

Anthony Joshua greater than Smokin' Joe? My ass!

Oh my goodness... Antony Joshua is only 6'6" X 245.. undefeated while winning all his fights by KO.. and a Heavyweight Champion... How big was Smokin'?

A lot of idiots made Frazier a 4/1 favorite to beat the 6'3" X 217 George Foreman---who was easy to hit by a good boxer... Too bad Smokin' wasn't one.

Kalan, you're away from reality. Anthony Joshua could be super man in your eyes. He is not impressive. Nobody cares about him.

A 100% KO ratio is impressive if you happen to be the world's greatest Heavyweight... You're so biased you have no grasp on reality... YOU don't care about anybody but Americans who fought 20 or more years ago when there was no international competition... If those clowns were around today they'd get smashed... Why do you think a punching bag like Frazier got dribbled around like a basketball by the hittable Foreman for 2 rounds -- and then dispatched so easily??? Smokin' was a 4/1 favorite wasn't he??? ... Why did he fight like a 100/1 long-shot??? He was no athlete I'll tell you that.

Frazier trying to compete with athletes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPk2zl5s6xM

[elmersalsa]

Oh my goodness... Antony Joshua is only 6'6" X 245.. undefeated while winning all his fights by KO.. and a Heavyweight Champion... How big was Smokin'?

A lot of idiots made Frazier a 4/1 favorite to beat the 6'3" X 217 George Foreman---who was easy to hit by a good boxer... Too bad Smokin' wasn't one.

Kalan, you're away from reality. Anthony Joshua could be super man in your eyes. He is not impressive. Nobody cares about him.

A 100% KO ratio is impressive if you happen to be the world's greatest Heavyweight... You're so biased you have no grasp on reality... YOU don't care about anybody but Americans who fought 20 or more years ago when there was no international competition... If those clowns were around today they'd get smashed... Why do you think a punching bag like Frazier got dribbled around like a basketball by the hittable Foreman for 2 rounds -- and then dispatched so easily??? Smokin' was a 4/1 favorite wasn't he??? ... Why did he fight like a 100/1 long-shot??? He was no athlete I'll tell you that.

Frazier trying to compete with athletes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPk2zl5s6xM

Anthony Joshua is not a great fighter, Kalan.

Smokin' Joe was already on the downside when he fought Big George. I never believe that that was Smokin' Joe of FOTC. Put Foreman that night and Smokin' Joe would have crucified him.

[Kalan]

Frazier wouldn't do crap to a super ripped 217-pound Foreman on ANY night Frazier ever lived... He was too little, short, fat, weak, wide open, and ate too many punches... Frazier couldn't even stop, floor, or hurt the wide open punching bag, the 203-pound tyro, Oscar Bonavena - who you couldn't miss.

In fact Bonavena floored Frazier twice... Foreman was the only big, tall, strong, rock-solid great puncher Frazier EVER fought... Name another one.

[BoxBuzz]

Swimming is a skill that is typically paid for. Parents with young kids with future athletic possibilities in their moms and pops eyes will often get them started with that experience. So my guess is that those roody poo "athletes" that you want to tout in that video are simply athletes who as youngsters probably had a few years swimming lessons.

Joe swims like a guy who's mom and day MIGHT not have had the extra dough in their account for such frivolities.


At times you are lame brain. But I like it better when you make sense. Try doing that more often, if you can find the time.

[Kalan]

Swimming is a skill that is typically paid for. Parents with young kids with future athletic possibilities in their moms and pops eyes will often get them started with that experience. So my guess is that those roody poo "athletes" that you want to tout in that video are simply athletes who as youngsters probably had a few years swimming lessons.

Joe swims like a guy who's mom and day MIGHT not have had the extra dough in their account for such frivolities.


At times you are lame brain. But I like it better when you make sense. Try doing that more often, if you can find the time.

BuzzBox you're ALWAYS a lame brain... It doesn't cost anything to join the swimming team in school... It's not parents paying for frivolities... a pair of trunks and you can swim.. Municipal pools are cheap as hell.. It costs a Hell of a lot more to outfit a football team and every school seems to have time for that.. Football may not be frivolous, but doesn't do your brain a lot of good.. Many of those athletes never swam competitively.. They learned for the competition..

Johnny Bench, in the 2nd heat, had the fastest 25 meters, but he had terrible technique and ran out of gas. Nobody taught him that stroke I'll tell you that.. Frazier didn't do much better in the rest of the competition... He finished last among all the athletes tied with 40-year-old Johnny Unitas.

[keithmoonhangover]

Oh my goodness... Antony Joshua is only 6'6" X 245.. undefeated while winning all his fights by KO.. and a Heavyweight Champion... How big was Smokin'?

A lot of idiots made Frazier a 4/1 favorite to beat the 6'3" X 217 George Foreman---who was easy to hit by a good boxer... Too bad Smokin' wasn't one.

Kalan, you're away from reality. Anthony Joshua could be super man in your eyes. He is not impressive. Nobody cares about him.

A 100% KO ratio is impressive if you happen to be the world's greatest Heavyweight... You're so biased you have no grasp on reality... YOU don't care about anybody but Americans who fought 20 or more years ago when there was no international competition... If those clowns were around today they'd get smashed... Why do you think a punching bag like Frazier got dribbled around like a basketball by the hittable Foreman for 2 rounds -- and then dispatched so easily??? Smokin' was a 4/1 favorite wasn't he??? ... Why did he fight like a 100/1 long-shot??? He was no athlete I'll tell you that.

Frazier trying to compete with athletes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPk2zl5s6xM

But Joshua isn't the world's greatest heavyweight. He hasn't beaten the best in the world and only has the IBF strap because the world has gone mad, much like a certain poster on here.

[elmersalsa]

If size means nothing how come Evander Holyfield who according to almost everyone on this forum is an ATG fighter, can beat Tyson, Moorer, Bowe, Bean Rahman, Saverese, and Ruiz, yet he can't beat Lewis who according to most on here isn't an ATG but he is however bigger than Vander?

I'll leave out Valuev, on the basis Holy was well past it, and there is still reason to believe he was robbed.

The great Evander Holyfield was through by 1998

[keithmoonhangover]

If size means nothing how come Evander Holyfield who according to almost everyone on this forum is an ATG fighter, can beat Tyson, Moorer, Bowe, Bean Rahman, Saverese, and Ruiz, yet he can't beat Lewis who according to most on here isn't an ATG but he is however bigger than Vander?

Bean? Seriously?

[matthewcb]

In the modern era, Hide either did very well or fell apart against the bigger men.
He got crushed by Bowe (after a decent start) and by Vitali but stopped the much bigger Tony Tucker early.

Again, I was quite surprised that Hide was sometimes not outweighed by as much as I thought he often was at the time.
He was not that much lighter than Bentt for example and actually came in against Vitali at a fairly hefy 221lbs.

I think Hide admitted himself that he used to cheat weigh-ins and carry weights etc. to appear 'bulked up'.

The fact he could fairly easily make cruiserweight in his late 30s indicates he was never a 'true' heavyweight.

[jezzamundo]

If size means nothing how come Evander Holyfield who according to almost everyone on this forum is an ATG fighter, can beat Tyson, Moorer, Bowe, Bean Rahman, Saverese, and Ruiz, yet he can't beat Lewis who according to most on here isn't an ATG but he is however bigger than Vander?

Bean? Seriously?

He'll do as an example, along with the rest.


So again if he a great little un how come he couldn't beat an " ordinary " big un? Cake and eat it springs to mind. Either Lewis was nothing special who managed to beat an ATG through sheer size, or he was an ATG himself. Which is it?

Let me put it to you in simple terms.

The thread says BIG heavies v GREAT heavies. The contention being that size makes little or no difference.

So was a so called ( on the internet ) GREAT heavy unable to beat a big ( but not considered GREAT ) heavy due to the difference in size, or is it possible the detractors were wrong in their evaluation of the big heavy?

I can answer that for you easily - Lennox Lewis is an ATG heavyweight. However, the rematch was close - closer than the scorecards - any that was a prime Lewis against a clearly post-prime Holyfield. The reason Lewis won was a combination of his size, skills and Evander's somewhat diminished abilities.

[Ambling Alp II]

You are confused with that? You may be the only person on earth who thinks Holyfield was close to his prime when he fought Lewis.
He was clearly past his best (though not shot) when he beat Tyson. He looked awful in the Bean fight and really didn't outclass him at all. By the time of the first Lewis fight, he was two and half years older than he was for the first Tyson fight. He looked totally shot.

[elmersalsa]

I agree with Ambling Alp on that. And he and I don't agree very much in almost nothing. But, anyone that thinks that the great Evander Holyfield was in his prime in the Lennox Lewis fights doesn't know what he's talking about.

Put both of them in 1992 and Holyfield wins by NASTY KNOCKOUT! Simple as that. I can't even picture myself seeing Holyfield losing to TWO GOOFY-GOOFY BUMS like Oliver McCall and Hasim Rahman in his prime. Let alone lose by knockout. By one shot.

[jezzamundo]

He'll do as an example, along with the rest.


So again if he a great little un how come he couldn't beat an " ordinary " big un? Cake and eat it springs to mind. Either Lewis was nothing special who managed to beat an ATG through sheer size, or he was an ATG himself. Which is it?

Let me put it to you in simple terms.

The thread says BIG heavies v GREAT heavies. The contention being that size makes little or no difference.

So was a so called ( on the internet ) GREAT heavy unable to beat a big ( but not considered GREAT ) heavy due to the difference in size, or is it possible the detractors were wrong in their evaluation of the big heavy?

I can answer that for you easily - Lennox Lewis is an ATG heavyweight. However, the rematch was close - closer than the scorecards - any that was a prime Lewis against a clearly post-prime Holyfield. The reason Lewis won was a combination of his size, skills and Evander's somewhat diminished abilities.

Aah, so Lewis is an ATG Heavyweight after all? That will do for me.

Though I am somewhat confused with the belief that Vander was prime ( or very close to it ) when he humiliated Tyson, yet knocking Moorer over 5 times on the way to an 8 round stoppage, then outclassing Bean in the 21 months between Tyson 2 and Lewis somehow diminished his skills. Especially when he was 35 in those 2 fights but a whopping 36 when he faced Lewis.

I believe Holyfield was slightly past his best when he beat Tyson. He looked good against Moorer but poor against Bean. He looked shot in the first Lewis fight, but in the 2nd he gave his last great performance, though he certainly wasn't as good a fighter as he was for the second Bowe fight, for instance.

I agree with Ambling Alp on that. And he and I don't agree very much in almost nothing. But, anyone that thinks that the great Evander Holyfield was in his prime in the Lennox Lewis fights doesn't know what he's talking about.

Put both of them in 1992 and Holyfield wins by NASTY KNOCKOUT! Simple as that. I can't even picture myself seeing Holyfield losing to TWO GOOFY-GOOFY BUMS like Oliver McCall and Hasim Rahman in his prime. Let alone lose by knockout. By one shot.

Everyone knows Holyfield had a much better chin than Lennox Lewis. Lewis lost to McCall via a questionable stoppage, but that was before Emmanuel Steward and he had yet to reach the peak of his abilities. Against Rahman, Lewis was out of shape, under-prepared and was winning the fight before having a defensive lapse and allowing Rahman to land a huge punch that would have stopped most heavyweights. Lewis showed the gulf in class between them in the rematch.

[Kalan]

I agree with Ambling Alp on that. And he and I don't agree very much in almost nothing. But, anyone that thinks that the great Evander Holyfield was in his prime in the Lennox Lewis fights doesn't know what he's talking about.

Put both of them in 1992 and Holyfield wins by NASTY KNOCKOUT! Simple as that. I can't even picture myself seeing Holyfield losing to TWO GOOFY-GOOFY BUMS like Oliver McCall and Hasim Rahman in his prime. Let alone lose by knockout. By one shot.

LMAO.. Holy couldn't KO Vaughn Bean who Vitali Klitschko knocked out.. He couldn't stop John Ruiz or He's not going to stop Lewis.. He couldn't stop the wide open John Ruiz or extremely punchable Riddick Bowe.. He ducked Lewis for many years before finally fighting him ... and then he fought out of a shell.. He gave both Lewis fights away to stay upright and conscious.. If he tried to fight he'd have been knocked cold.

[keithmoonhangover]

I agree with Ambling Alp on that. And he and I don't agree very much in almost nothing. But, anyone that thinks that the great Evander Holyfield was in his prime in the Lennox Lewis fights doesn't know what he's talking about.

Put both of them in 1992 and Holyfield wins by NASTY KNOCKOUT! Simple as that. I can't even picture myself seeing Holyfield losing to TWO GOOFY-GOOFY BUMS like Oliver McCall and Hasim Rahman in his prime. Let alone lose by knockout. By one shot.

LMAO.. Holy couldn't KO Vaughn Bean who Vitali Klitschko knocked out.. He couldn't stop John Ruiz or He's not going to stop Lewis.. He couldn't stop the wide open John Ruiz or extremely punchable Riddick Bowe.. He ducked Lewis for many years before finally fighting him ... and then he fought out of a shell.. He gave both Lewis fights away to stay upright and conscious.. If he tried to fight he'd have been knocked cold.

The madness returns.

[IKSRTFO]

I agree with Ambling Alp on that. And he and I don't agree very much in almost nothing. But, anyone that thinks that the great Evander Holyfield was in his prime in the Lennox Lewis fights doesn't know what he's talking about.

Put both of them in 1992 and Holyfield wins by NASTY KNOCKOUT! Simple as that. I can't even picture myself seeing Holyfield losing to TWO GOOFY-GOOFY BUMS like Oliver McCall and Hasim Rahman in his prime. Let alone lose by knockout. By one shot.

LMAO.. Holy couldn't KO Vaughn Bean who Vitali Klitschko knocked out.. He couldn't stop John Ruiz or He's not going to stop Lewis.. He couldn't stop the wide open John Ruiz or extremely punchable Riddick Bowe.. He ducked Lewis for many years before finally fighting him ... and then he fought out of a shell.. He gave both Lewis fights away to stay upright and conscious.. If he tried to fight he'd have been knocked cold.

Vitali couldn't KO Chris Byrd neither

[IKSRTFO]

Tyson vs nearly everyone he beat. He was shorter than over 90% of his opponents and most weight the same as him or more.