A 10 cent analysis of Crease’s tournament results

[APerno]

A 10 cent analysis of Crease’s tournament results

Welterweights: 22 participants = a perfect score of 220

1. Sugar Ray Robinson 216 of 220 (98.8%)
2. Sugar Ray Leonard/Henry Armstrong 167 of 220 (75.9%)
3.
4. Emile Griffith 112 of 220 (50.1%)
5. Thomas Hearns 69 of 220 (31.3%)
6.
7.
8.
9.
10. Floyd Mayweather Jr. 42 of 220 (19.1%)

Middleweights: 23 participants = a perfect score of 230

1. Harry Greb 196 of those 230 (85.2%)
2. Carlos Monzon 181 of 230 (78.6)
3.
4. Marvin Hagler 165 of 230 (71.7%)
5. Stanley Ketchel 100 0f 230 (43.4%)
6.
7.
8.
9.
10. Charlie Burley 26 of 230 (11.3%)

Lightheavyweights: 22 participants = a perfect score of 220

1. Archie Moore 180 of 220 (81.8%)
2. Ezzard Charles 179 of 220 (81.3%)
3.
4. Michael Spinks 131 of 220 (59.5%)
5. Sam Langford 91 of 220 (41.3%)
6.
7.
8.
9.
10. Billy Conn 50 of 220 (22.7%)

Heavyweights: 30 participants = a perfect score of 300

1. Muhammad Ali 282 of the 300 (94.0%)
2. Joe Louis 270 of 300 (90.0%)
3.
4. George foreman 170 of 300 (56.6%)
5. Jack Johnson 135 of 300 (45.0%)
6.
7.
8.
9.
10. Jack Dempsey 73 of 300 (24.0%)


so say the numbers . . . so say us


The separation between 4th and 5th place seems to be the dividing line between the ‘great’ and the ‘merely great’

Of the 4th place finishers, Hagler at MW is the closest to the top of his weight class with a 72%, to Greb’s 85% (or a 13% point spread)

Of the 4th place finishers, Griffith at WW is the furthest away from the top by a whopping 49.7% spread (50.1% for Emile and 98.8% for SRR)

Hagler again, as a 4th place finisher, tops his 5th place rival by the largest margin with a 28% point spread (71.7% for Hagler and 43.4% for Ketchel)

Archie Moore and Ezzard Charles (LHW) are the closest one-two finishers with 81.8% to 81.3% respectfully; or by one vote

SRR and SRL (WW) has the greatest percentage spread among the one-two finishers with 98.8% to 75.9% respectfully, or a 22.9% spread

10th place finishers tend to be 1/4th as great their top finisher, except among the MW where Burley is only a paltry 1/10th as great as Greb

Sugar Ray Robinson is the ‘top finisher’ with the highest percentage score, a whopping 98.8%

Ali is the only other ‘top finisher’ at plus 90% (94%)

HW had the most number of participants with 30, while WW and LHW had the lowest with 22

WW is the only division to result in ties (multiple ties), which is odd considering it is the division with the greatest one-two spread; with the rest of the division being tight


and into my opinion and questions


There seems to be no WTF moments among the top five finishers for any weight class; i.e. we seem to be in tune with the general consensus

We tend to lean to the old time greats over the recently great (I wonder what the mean age of the participants is? )

Anyone know which fighter has the earliest fight date; which has the most recent?

I was personally surprised to see Greb above Monzon; I don’t necessarily disagree, just surprised by it

The drop off in participation comes as no surprise and will likely continue to diminish as we get into the lower weight classes.

When we get down to the Flyweights I am not going to try and list the Thai fighters’ names; I am just going to list them as: Thailand Fighter 1 (1967); Thailand Fighter 2 (1988)


And once again, a thank you to Crease (and all) for giving me something to do

[Ambling Alp II]

That is a lot to chew on !
I'm not surprised Greb was rated so high; he gets a lot of respect on this forum. So does Ezzard Charles for that matter.

There has long been an irrational anti-Leonard sentiment by some on the Forum; however enough people realize how great he was. He should be a slam dunk for #2; outside of Robinson he has the most major wins at the weight class. Ross, Armstrong, Gavilan etc. all lost more. Leonard also had several nice wins on his way up.

There are certain gaps as you have noted; middleweight has long been an argument between the top 4 and then there is a bit of a dropoff.
Not surprising that more people voted for heavyweight; it has always been the weight class that people seem to like to talk about the most. It will be interesting to see how many people vote for the lower weight classes.

[BoxBuzz]

What you have not seen is always the greatest mystery....So Greb wins....

I imagine if we could see him in action for a few hours of tape, he would not have landed at top.


Nothing beats the imagination. And yes the written accounts are impressive......but the minds eye is always a bit more fascinating than what the camera shows you.


I saw Monzon up close.....I'm not overly surprised he turned out to be a ruthless murderer. He had ice in his veins, and enjoyed a fight like no one I have ever seen. Not sure he even wanted KO's. I want to review some tapes to look for any sign of disappointment in him, body language wise, when he KO'd someone. Seems to me the end of the fight, was the part he liked the least.

[keithmoonhangover]

A 10 cent analysis of Crease’s tournament results

Welterweights: 22 participants = a perfect score of 220

1. Sugar Ray Robinson 216 of 220 (98.8%)
2. Sugar Ray Leonard/Henry Armstrong 167 of 220 (75.9%)
3.
4. Emile Griffith 112 of 220 (50.1%)
5. Thomas Hearns 69 of 220 (31.3%)
6.
7.
8.
9.
10. Floyd Mayweather Jr. 42 of 220 (19.1%)

Middleweights: 23 participants = a perfect score of 230

1. Harry Greb 196 of those 230 (85.2%)
2. Carlos Monzon 181 of 230 (78.6)
3.
4. Marvin Hagler 165 of 230 (71.7%)
5. Stanley Ketchel 100 0f 230 (43.4%)
6.
7.
8.
9.
10. Charlie Burley 26 of 230 (11.3%)

Lightheavyweights: 22 participants = a perfect score of 220

1. Archie Moore 180 of 220 (81.8%)
2. Ezzard Charles 179 of 220 (81.3%)
3.
4. Michael Spinks 131 of 220 (59.5%)
5. Sam Langford 91 of 220 (41.3%)
6.
7.
8.
9.
10. Billy Conn 50 of 220 (22.7%)

Heavyweights: 30 participants = a perfect score of 300

1. Muhammad Ali 282 of the 300 (94.0%)
2. Joe Louis 270 of 300 (90.0%)
3.
4. George foreman 170 of 300 (56.6%)
5. Jack Johnson 135 of 300 (45.0%)
6.
7.
8.
9.
10. Jack Dempsey 73 of 300 (24.0%)


so say the numbers . . . so say us


The separation between 4th and 5th place seems to be the dividing line between the ‘great’ and the ‘merely great’

Of the 4th place finishers, Hagler at MW is the closest to the top of his weight class with a 72%, to Greb’s 85% (or a 13% point spread)

Of the 4th place finishers, Griffith at WW is the furthest away from the top by a whopping 49.7% spread (50.1% for Emile and 98.8% for SRR)

Hagler again, as a 4th place finisher, tops his 5th place rival by the largest margin with a 28% point spread (71.7% for Hagler and 43.4% for Ketchel)

Archie Moore and Ezzard Charles (LHW) are the closest one-two finishers with 81.8% to 81.3% respectfully; or by one vote

SRR and SRL (WW) has the greatest percentage spread among the one-two finishers with 98.8% to 75.9% respectfully, or a 22.9% spread

10th place finishers tend to be 1/4th as great their top finisher, except among the MW where Burley is only a paltry 1/10th as great as Greb

Sugar Ray Robinson is the ‘top finisher’ with the highest percentage score, a whopping 98.8%

Ali is the only other ‘top finisher’ at plus 90% (94%)

HW had the most number of participants with 30, while WW and LHW had the lowest with 22

WW is the only division to result in ties (multiple ties), which is odd considering it is the division with the greatest one-two spread; with the rest of the division being tight


and into my opinion and questions


There seems to be no WTF moments among the top five finishers for any weight class; i.e. we seem to be in tune with the general consensus

We tend to lean to the old time greats over the recently great (I wonder what the mean age of the participants is? )

Anyone know which fighter has the earliest fight date; which has the most recent?

I was personally surprised to see Greb above Monzon; I don’t necessarily disagree, just surprised by it

The drop off in participation comes as no surprise and will likely continue to diminish as we get into the lower weight classes.

When we get down to the Flyweights I am not going to try and list the Thai fighters’ names; I am just going to list them as: Thailand Fighter 1 (1967); Thailand Fighter 2 (1988)


And once again, a thank you to Crease (and all) for giving me something to do

And Kalan saw them all live.

[davie]

And Kalan saw them all live.

And they'll all be behind Valero on the p4p list in May

[Seamus]

Look's like the forum rates Armstrong higher at Weltereight than Lightweight, which seems strange to me.

[keithmoonhangover]

I'd like to say thanks to Crease for doing these tournaments.

[davie]

Look's like the forum rates Armstrong higher at Weltereight than Lightweight, which seems strange to me.

Is that an indication of how strong we think is resume is at the weights or how strong we feel the weight class is round about him?

Of course it all probably hinges on the fact that he made several Welterweight defences while weighing 135lbs.
Some will attribute them to his WW credentials (I do)
Some will class those as great feats for a lightweight