President Obama should pardon Jack Johnson

gp.
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Re: President Obama should pardon Jack Johnson

Post by gp. »

golden oldie wrote:
Caractacus wrote: He was high profile person doing it,that was probably the main reason.
There was a movement in America nationwide around that time to get rid of all vice.
and he had the bad timing of being caught up in it.
Or perhaps because he was a high profile black guy, who was quite outspoken about the women he would or wouldn't mix with, and white America couldn't stomach that.

Evidently, even from this thread, a lot of them still can't. Which is the one good reason for pardoning him.
BroughtonRulesRefuge
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Re: President Obama should pardon Jack Johnson

Post by BroughtonRulesRefuge »

Badhusker wrote:Like John McCain said, this is an egregious (shocking, appalling, horrendous) act of racism, and history should be corrected. The sad thing is, there are still plenty of racist people here in the U.S. that feel Johnson got what he deserved. Some are downright racist, some are just stupid, and most are both. There was not another black person to fight for the championship after Johnson until Joe Louis about 20 years later.
- Wrong again as is your way. The IBU stripped JJ for not fighting legit contenders before JJ got beat up by Battling Jim Johnson in Paris in what passes as a title fight today, but not on French soil. Later Sam Langford almost KOed Joe Jeannette in a classic for the now split title that the French recognized. No surprise you ain't clamoring to rectify that transgression in the historical record that two of the most honorable black fighters to ever strap on the gloves fought for a title few know or care to recognize.

Oh, an now if GW Dumb and O'Billary don't pardon JJ, then they default to racist is it? That's really rich given you, your hero TUE 49-0, and others of your ilk skewering Manny all these years with racist slurs and lies.

Usual dummies can't follow the timeline: 6-25-1910 Mann Act passed. Johnson had a kidnapping complaint filed against him in 1912, so he married the 18 year old prostitute to kill the case after his wife killed herself. In between per Unforgivable Blackness link I previously provided, "Agents soon traced Johnson's former companion Belle Schreiber to a whorehouse in the nation's capital. Schreiber's memory of dates and places seemed encyclopedic, and her bitterness at Johnson's treatment of her made her just the witness investigators were looking for. Within days, the federal grand jury had issued seven Mann Act indictments, charging Johnson with transporting Schreiber from Pittsburgh to Chicago on October 15, 1910, for the purpose of prostitution and debauchery. Johnson was arrested on November 7" Transcripts show he claimed to be making $2500/wk, or about $11,000/month, 4x more/month than 99% of the pro baseball players earned in a year, so how was he earning this steady King's Ransom when most his money came through boxing purses? See Ms Belle's testimony.

In short, JJ was the posterboy of what the Mann Act targeted. Now, worse criminals have been pardoned by presidents and so it will be in the future. Don't matter to me save Congressional Approval was achieved by hiding it in a 1000 page education bill so history teachers can start teaching the Howard Sackler's Great White Hope fantasy, and it's appropriate to note Sackler died while working on a farcical play about the Alaskan Goldrush that surely should become part of school history lessons if JJ is pardoned.

Yeah, let JJ into the noble civil rights movement history when 90% of his friends where white and JJ having sworn off "colored" women. Yeah, let's skip over him skipping out on his contract with the English National Sporting Club who financed his trip to Australia for the Burns challenge with the provision that he return to England to face Sam Langford, a huge fight at the time. Not only does Wiki butcher their time line of Mann Act violations, but they eliminated that as a young man he was common law married to the "colored" Mary Austin, perhaps unwilling to go into those sordid details whatever they were. Yeah, and he's buried next to his exwife whom he beat so badly that she killed herself. Sweet end for a serial woman beater, but then you and your ilk seem to fancy modern serial woman beaters, but be clear, Johnson didn't need a pair of 300lb goons for assistance like sissy TUE, JJ was the real deal.

And let'em teach the story about how white cops saved JJ from the beating of his life after the Louis loss to Schmeling when he sauntered into Harlem flashing the money he made on Schmeling while bragging about giving tips to Schmeling. Or how he'd been thrown out of 3 Louis camps before that fight to prevent him spreading his poison. Not the brightest move, nor was claiming he threw the Willard fight, nor going against Louis in the press everytime he fought.

You modern revisionists ignore your own tragic legacy that has given us 24 consecutive years of 3 US presidents who couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag to save their wives, the first two being draft dodgers, but they could start wars they couldn't finish with millions of casualties, deaths, displacements, uncounted orphans, easily a trillion of dollars of death and destruction and counting with 100 years or more of the same. The kicker is they're already blowing up Europe. Soon mass gun murders in the US to look like child's play compared to what's coming, and who to thank?

Thank yourselves for wanting to pardon JJ while all the above was happening on YOUR watch. It's all on you. If the past can be judged, so can the present and you fail horribly on both accounts. And I ain't the one who dished out the punishment in JJ's day, and I ain't the one that will be his ultimate judge. I just know what I know about the guy. See ABOVE/\
Caractacus
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Re: President Obama should pardon Jack Johnson

Post by Caractacus »

Perhaps that is why they closed Storyville too ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storyville,_New_Orleans
APerno
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Re: President Obama should pardon Jack Johnson

Post by APerno »

gp. wrote:
Caractacus wrote:
APerno wrote:

Does it matter that Johnson's conviction, under the Mann Act, was a deliberate 'fishing expedition' on the part of the prosecutor; 'expedition' in the sense that they went after the man, and then only discovered he committed the particular crime? - That is not out brand of justice; we don't want our government going after people; we want them to prosecute crimes.
He was high profile person doing it,that was probably the main reason.
There was a movement in America nationwide around that time to get rid of all vice.
and he had the bad timing of being caught up in it.

Don't be absurd.
What? Explain! - You have never heard the phrase: "in America we don't investigate people, we investigate crimes" ? - I guess maybe you're part of the problem we have with . . .
Caractacus
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Re: President Obama should pardon Jack Johnson

Post by Caractacus »

APerno wrote:
gp. wrote:
Caractacus wrote: He was high profile person doing it,that was probably the main reason.
There was a movement in America nationwide around that time to get rid of all vice.
and he had the bad timing of being caught up in it.

Don't be absurd.
What? Explain! - You have never heard the phrase: "in America we don't investigate people, we investigate crimes" ? - I guess maybe you're part of the problem we have with . . .
C'mon do you honestly think that Dylan Roof is NOT Insane either ?
Of course they were not going to find him so because that would have allowed him to get off the hook for what he did so to speak,
and they desperatly want him to be an example.
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Re: President Obama should pardon Jack Johnson

Post by Badhusker »

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:
Badhusker wrote:Like John McCain said, this is an egregious (shocking, appalling, horrendous) act of racism, and history should be corrected. The sad thing is, there are still plenty of racist people here in the U.S. that feel Johnson got what he deserved. Some are downright racist, some are just stupid, and most are both. There was not another black person to fight for the championship after Johnson until Joe Louis about 20 years later.
- Wrong again as is your way. The IBU stripped JJ for not fighting legit contenders before JJ got beat up by Battling Jim Johnson in Paris in what passes as a title fight today, but not on French soil. Later Sam Langford almost KOed Joe Jeannette in a classic for the now split title that the French recognized. No surprise you ain't clamoring to rectify that transgression in the historical record that two of the most honorable black fighters to ever strap on the gloves fought for a title few know or care to recognize.

Oh, an now if GW Dumb and O'Billary don't pardon JJ, then they default to racist is it? That's really rich given you, your hero TUE 49-0, and others of your ilk skewering Manny all these years with racist slurs and lies.

Usual dummies can't follow the timeline: 6-25-1910 Mann Act passed. Johnson had a kidnapping complaint filed against him in 1912, so he married the 18 year old prostitute to kill the case after his wife killed herself. In between per Unforgivable Blackness link I previously provided, "Agents soon traced Johnson's former companion Belle Schreiber to a whorehouse in the nation's capital. Schreiber's memory of dates and places seemed encyclopedic, and her bitterness at Johnson's treatment of her made her just the witness investigators were looking for. Within days, the federal grand jury had issued seven Mann Act indictments, charging Johnson with transporting Schreiber from Pittsburgh to Chicago on October 15, 1910, for the purpose of prostitution and debauchery. Johnson was arrested on November 7" Transcripts show he claimed to be making $2500/wk, or about $11,000/month, 4x more/month than 99% of the pro baseball players earned in a year, so how was he earning this steady King's Ransom when most his money came through boxing purses? See Ms Belle's testimony.

In short, JJ was the posterboy of what the Mann Act targeted. Now, worse criminals have been pardoned by presidents and so it will be in the future. Don't matter to me save Congressional Approval was achieved by hiding it in a 1000 page education bill so history teachers can start teaching the Howard Sackler's Great White Hope fantasy, and it's appropriate to note Sackler died while working on a farcical play about the Alaskan Goldrush that surely should become part of school history lessons if JJ is pardoned.

Yeah, let JJ into the noble civil rights movement history when 90% of his friends where white and JJ having sworn off "colored" women. Yeah, let's skip over him skipping out on his contract with the English National Sporting Club who financed his trip to Australia for the Burns challenge with the provision that he return to England to face Sam Langford, a huge fight at the time. Not only does Wiki butcher their time line of Mann Act violations, but they eliminated that as a young man he was common law married to the "colored" Mary Austin, perhaps unwilling to go into those sordid details whatever they were. Yeah, and he's buried next to his exwife whom he beat so badly that she killed herself. Sweet end for a serial woman beater, but then you and your ilk seem to fancy modern serial woman beaters, but be clear, Johnson didn't need a pair of 300lb goons for assistance like sissy TUE, JJ was the real deal.

And let'em teach the story about how white cops saved JJ from the beating of his life after the Louis loss to Schmeling when he sauntered into Harlem flashing the money he made on Schmeling while bragging about giving tips to Schmeling. Or how he'd been thrown out of 3 Louis camps before that fight to prevent him spreading his poison. Not the brightest move, nor was claiming he threw the Willard fight, nor going against Louis in the press everytime he fought.

You modern revisionists ignore your own tragic legacy that has given us 24 consecutive years of 3 US presidents who couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag to save their wives, the first two being draft dodgers, but they could start wars they couldn't finish with millions of casualties, deaths, displacements, uncounted orphans, easily a trillion of dollars of death and destruction and counting with 100 years or more of the same. The kicker is they're already blowing up Europe. Soon mass gun murders in the US to look like child's play compared to what's coming, and who to thank?

Thank yourselves for wanting to pardon JJ while all the above was happening on YOUR watch. It's all on you. If the past can be judged, so can the present and you fail horribly on both accounts. And I ain't the one who dished out the punishment in JJ's day, and I ain't the one that will be his ultimate judge. I just know what I know about the guy. See ABOVE/\
Wow you have some really deep seated issues involving hate on more than one level. I'm glad you were able to vent. All of the above happened on my watch? My hero is 49-0 TUE? Others of my ilk made racist slurs about Pacquiao? Its not healthy to hate so much.
You seem to know so much you must have lived during that time. Go ahead and edit Wiki so it reads how you want. All this time I am sure you are also assuming I am black, but I am not.
gp.
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Re: President Obama should pardon Jack Johnson

Post by gp. »

APerno wrote:
gp. wrote:
Caractacus wrote: He was high profile person doing it,that was probably the main reason.
There was a movement in America nationwide around that time to get rid of all vice.
and he had the bad timing of being caught up in it.

Don't be absurd.
What? Explain! - You have never heard the phrase: "in America we don't investigate people, we investigate crimes" ? - I guess maybe you're part of the problem we have with . . .

I really can't follow your post, did you think it was a reply to you rather than to Caractacus? The absurdity is the suggestion that he was investigated because he was "high profile" and not because he was "black and high profile".

I don't know what problem you have with.........
APerno
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Re: President Obama should pardon Jack Johnson

Post by APerno »

gp. wrote:
APerno wrote:
gp. wrote:

Don't be absurd.
What? Explain! - You have never heard the phrase: "in America we don't investigate people, we investigate crimes" ? - I guess maybe you're part of the problem we have with . . .

I really can't follow your post, did you think it was a reply to you rather than to Caractacus? The absurdity is the suggestion that he was investigated because he was "high profile" and not because he was "black and high profile".

I don't know what problem you have with.........
My apologies, yes I misunderstood - and yes Caractacus is being absurd it was all about his blackness - I am really sorry about that.
APerno
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Re: President Obama should pardon Jack Johnson

Post by APerno »

golden oldie wrote:Of course self promoting egotistical morons will edit ANYTHING to suit their own agendas. The Mann Act DEFINITELY DID come into effect on 25th June 1910. The problem with the argument of those folks who think Johnson deserved everything he got is,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
This time, the woman, another alleged prostitute named Belle Schreiber, ( who was responsible for his conviction and sentence ) with whom he had been involved in 1909 and 1910, testified against him.
I won't bore anyone with the rest of the moralistic garbage because it isn't worthy of discussion. Suffice to say the filthy American racist scum convicted the guy for something that allegedly happened before they passed their ridiculous law.

But perish the thought that they might just have done it because he was black guy, with a " flashy lifestyle " who consorted with white women. I mean the authorities could never even dream of discriminating against someone could they? :roll: :roll:

The history of the law itself is a sad one - came into existence in reaction to a (fictitious) fear of an international white slavery market that never existed; was then misused by angry spouses seeking satisfaction from cheating husbands across state lines; and finally was then used to solve a perplexing 'social problem' - what to do with an 'upptiy ni**er' - it was not a good law; it was a stupid law enforced by moral and racial bigots.
gp.
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Re: President Obama should pardon Jack Johnson

Post by gp. »

APerno wrote:
gp. wrote:
APerno wrote:
What? Explain! - You have never heard the phrase: "in America we don't investigate people, we investigate crimes" ? - I guess maybe you're part of the problem we have with . . .

I really can't follow your post, did you think it was a reply to you rather than to Caractacus? The absurdity is the suggestion that he was investigated because he was "high profile" and not because he was "black and high profile".

I don't know what problem you have with.........
My apologies, yes I misunderstood - and yes Caractacus is being absurd it was all about his blackness - I am really sorry about that.
Cheers, no problem at all.
Caractacus
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Re: President Obama should pardon Jack Johnson

Post by Caractacus »

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:
Badhusker wrote:Like John McCain said, this is an egregious (shocking, appalling, horrendous) act of racism, and history should be corrected. The sad thing is, there are still plenty of racist people here in the U.S. that feel Johnson got what he deserved. Some are downright racist, some are just stupid, and most are both. There was not another black person to fight for the championship after Johnson until Joe Louis about 20 years later.
- Wrong again as is your way. The IBU stripped JJ for not fighting legit contenders before JJ got beat up by Battling Jim Johnson in Paris in what passes as a title fight today, but not on French soil. Later Sam Langford almost KOed Joe Jeannette in a classic for the now split title that the French recognized. No surprise you ain't clamoring to rectify that transgression in the historical record that two of the most honorable black fighters to ever strap on the gloves fought for a title few know or care to recognize.

Oh, an now if GW Dumb and O'Billary don't pardon JJ, then they default to racist is it? That's really rich given you, your hero TUE 49-0, and others of your ilk skewering Manny all these years with racist slurs and lies.

Usual dummies can't follow the timeline: 6-25-1910 Mann Act passed. Johnson had a kidnapping complaint filed against him in 1912, so he married the 18 year old prostitute to kill the case after his wife killed herself. In between per Unforgivable Blackness link I previously provided, "Agents soon traced Johnson's former companion Belle Schreiber to a whorehouse in the nation's capital. Schreiber's memory of dates and places seemed encyclopedic, and her bitterness at Johnson's treatment of her made her just the witness investigators were looking for. Within days, the federal grand jury had issued seven Mann Act indictments, charging Johnson with transporting Schreiber from Pittsburgh to Chicago on October 15, 1910, for the purpose of prostitution and debauchery. Johnson was arrested on November 7" Transcripts show he claimed to be making $2500/wk, or about $11,000/month, 4x more/month than 99% of the pro baseball players earned in a year, so how was he earning this steady King's Ransom when most his money came through boxing purses? See Ms Belle's testimony.

In short, JJ was the posterboy of what the Mann Act targeted. Now, worse criminals have been pardoned by presidents and so it will be in the future. Don't matter to me save Congressional Approval was achieved by hiding it in a 1000 page education bill so history teachers can start teaching the Howard Sackler's Great White Hope fantasy, and it's appropriate to note Sackler died while working on a farcical play about the Alaskan Goldrush that surely should become part of school history lessons if JJ is pardoned.

Yeah, let JJ into the noble civil rights movement history when 90% of his friends where white and JJ having sworn off "colored" women. Yeah, let's skip over him skipping out on his contract with the English National Sporting Club who financed his trip to Australia for the Burns challenge with the provision that he return to England to face Sam Langford, a huge fight at the time. Not only does Wiki butcher their time line of Mann Act violations, but they eliminated that as a young man he was common law married to the "colored" Mary Austin, perhaps unwilling to go into those sordid details whatever they were. Yeah, and he's buried next to his exwife whom he beat so badly that she killed herself. Sweet end for a serial woman beater, but then you and your ilk seem to fancy modern serial woman beaters, but be clear, Johnson didn't need a pair of 300lb goons for assistance like sissy TUE, JJ was the real deal.

And let'em teach the story about how white cops saved JJ from the beating of his life after the Louis loss to Schmeling when he sauntered into Harlem flashing the money he made on Schmeling while bragging about giving tips to Schmeling. Or how he'd been thrown out of 3 Louis camps before that fight to prevent him spreading his poison. Not the brightest move, nor was claiming he threw the Willard fight, nor going against Louis in the press everytime he fought.

You modern revisionists ignore your own tragic legacy that has given us 24 consecutive years of 3 US presidents who couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag to save their wives, the first two being draft dodgers, but they could start wars they couldn't finish with millions of casualties, deaths, displacements, uncounted orphans, easily a trillion of dollars of death and destruction and counting with 100 years or more of the same. The kicker is they're already blowing up Europe. Soon mass gun murders in the US to look like child's play compared to what's coming, and who to thank?

Thank yourselves for wanting to pardon JJ while all the above was happening on YOUR watch. It's all on you. If the past can be judged, so can the present and you fail horribly on both accounts. And I ain't the one who dished out the punishment in JJ's day, and I ain't the one that will be his ultimate judge. I just know what I know about the guy. See ABOVE/\

are you a Puffesor at a college or somethin' ?
zojo
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Re: President Obama should pardon Jack Johnson

Post by zojo »

Mike Tyson started a Change.org petition

https://www.change.org/p/president-bara ... ck-johnson
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