Vitali Klitschko vs. Mike Tyson prime for prime

[man]

Are you even aware Douglas's mother died during his training camp for the Tyson fight?

EXACTLY what obvious, and severe problems did Tyson have in his private life around this time, that he didn't have before? Are you seriously going to tell us that Tyson suddenly became a dope smoking, woman chasing drunken psycho between July 89, and February 90? Next you will be trying to tell us sexually assaulting Teddy Atlas's 11 year old niece was perfectly normal, or how about going back to Brooklyn even after he was a world champion and mugging people because he liked the buzz it gave him.

The guy was loony tunes from the day he was born ffs. Spare the pathetic excuses just because Douglas beat the living crap out of him.

dude, whatever you are on, maybe
reduce the dosis just a bit ...

you seem to make the case that mike
tyson, youngest heavy weight champion
of all time, was prime when he lost to
buster douglas, who had one other title
fight in his career and was seen by the
bookmakers going into the night as
42:1 underdog.

here is what i think. you have no idea
what you are talking about.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Tyson was definitely in his prime.

[man]

Tyson was definitely in his prime.

you mean he was close to his very best
that very night?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Tyson was definitely in his prime.

you mean he was close to his very best
that very night?

I'd say he was. I don't think he ever had a day that could beat Douglas that night.

[Ambling Alp II]

Tyson was in his prime. Was it his best fight? Of course not. However, that was pretty much his own fault.
He fought well enough in spots that he still would have gotton away with an uninspiring against many opponents.
However, Douglas fought a truly great fight, so Tyson lost.

[Chuck1052]

Mike Tyson had only a few prime years. While Jim Jacobs was alive, Tyson had a strong management team with Jacobs and Bill Cayton as his co-managers. Kevin Rooney may have not been the most accomplished boxing trainer in the world, but he made Tyson buckle down and get fully prepared for his bouts. As a result, Tyson was a force to be reckoned with at the time. After Jacobs died, Tyson no longer had such a strong management team with only Cayton in the picture, which also meant that Rooney's days as his trainer were numbered. Linking up with Don King as his promoter also didn't help.

It is obvious that Tyson wasn't fully prepared at the time he fought Buster Douglas. What really stood out to me was that Tyson was getting hit with so many punches by Douglas that he would have blocked in previous bouts. It is my understanding that Tyson's trainers generally were "yes-men" after Tyson and Rooney parted. That may have been one reason why Tyson never recaptured the form of his prime years afterwards.

I would choose a vintage Tyson over a vintage Vitali Klitschko by a stoppage.

- Chuck Johnston

[GPTM1403]

If it was Wlad I'd pick Tyson by KO and probably before 8th but Vitali I've always liked more. Seems to have a much stronger chin and be more adept at having a brawl as well as a boxer and had the big punch to back it up. I'd probably say his reach, toughness and skills make it slightly in his favour.

[Ambling Alp II]

Vitali wasn't tough, he didn't have good skills and he didn't have a big punch.

[elmersalsa]

Vitali wasn't tough, he didn't have good skills and he didn't have a big punch.

Well, he wasn't tough, but, he had some skills. But not enough great skills to beat someone like the great Mike Tyson. He ain't knocking out Tyson with one punch, either. Neither he had the NECESSARY SPEED to beat someone like Iron Mike.

[elmersalsa]

If it was Wlad I'd pick Tyson by KO and probably before 8th but Vitali I've always liked more. Seems to have a much stronger chin and be more adept at having a brawl as well as a boxer and had the big punch to back it up. I'd probably say his reach, toughness and skills make it slightly in his favour.

Of course Vitali was tough, and had more bottle than Tyson. The Lewis fight alone proved that. There is no way Vitali would sit on his ass and quit against the likes of a fat Danny Williams. Plus 41 stoppages out of 45 wins is apparently a non puncher to Tyson fanboys. Not to mention the guys he stopped that had never been stopped previously.

Why do you bring the Danny Williams fight against Iron Mike? Wasn't Tyson already WASHED UP? Do you think Williams beats a prime Tyson?

[elmersalsa]

Of course Vitali was tough, and had more bottle than Tyson. The Lewis fight alone proved that. There is no way Vitali would sit on his ass and quit against the likes of a fat Danny Williams. Plus 41 stoppages out of 45 wins is apparently a non puncher to Tyson fanboys. Not to mention the guys he stopped that had never been stopped previously.

Why do you bring the Danny Williams fight against Iron Mike? Wasn't Tyson already WASHED UP? Do you think Williams beats a prime Tyson?

I am not interested in excuses, he signed to fight and took the money, then after a few shots quit on his ass. Vitali Klitchko NEVER looked like doing that.

Was Tyson in his prime, though? Answer the question.

[Ambling Alp II]

Vitali wasn't tough, he didn't have good skills and he didn't have a big punch.

Well, he wasn't tough, but, he had some skills. But not enough great skills to beat someone like the great Mike Tyson. He ain't knocking out Tyson with one punch, either. Neither he had the NECESSARY SPEED to beat someone like Iron Mike.

No he really didn't have skills. He didn't have a good jab, upper cut, hook, head movement, or footwork.

But yes I agree with you that Tyson would have beat easily. Klitschko never beat anyone worth mentioning.
That people have to bring up fights with Danny Williams shows they have no real argument.

Tyson is overrated by some people. However, he was light years better than Klitschko.

[Ambling Alp II]

I and others have addressed that he was never behind on the officials scorecards. Leaving the absurd scoring of the Byrd fight aside, it is an obscure rule that doesn't matter at all what the scorecards say if you can't finish the fight.

0-2 against opponents that matter. Could not go the distance either time.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Botha was dominating Tyson, he gets no such love.

[Kalan]

I and others have addressed that he was never behind on the officials scorecards. Leaving the absurd scoring of the Byrd fight aside, it is an obscure rule that doesn't matter at all what the scorecards say if you can't finish the fight.

0-2 against opponents that matter. Could not go the distance either time.

The scoring of VK's Byrd fight wasn't absurd... He was well ahead, but was injured... If you're badly injured in a way that has nothing to do with legal punches being thrown you come out of the game -- just as players in Football, Basketball, and Baseball don't continue with serious injuries... Marcel Cerdan, Harry Wills, Harry Greb, Bernard Hopkins, Sonny Liston, and many other fighters suffered seriously injured shoulders or arms and couldn't continue in those fights... Some were ahead and some were behind, but it doesn't matter if you're unfortunate enough to suffer a serious injury and have to quit.

Vitali Klitschko was 45-2... Lennox Lewis was 41-2-1... Mike Tyson was 50-6 and none of them ever lost by decision... But I'm not going to say Mike Tyson was 0-6 and could never go the distance in any of those losses... But Mike got outboxed AND outpunched ... That never happened to Vitali Klitschko who had the best winning ratio of the 3.