Jess Willard vrs Jack Johnson/100th Anniversary

[klompton]

Willard was the most inactive Heavyweight Champion in the History of Boxing. He got rich with personal appearances but hated the sport of Boxing with a passion. In the more than 4 years between his fights with Johnson and Dempsey, Jess fought only one exhibition match with Frank Moran. That fight is now listed as a 10-round World Title Fight but years ago it wasn't and no winner was declared.

Nonsense. Willards bout with Frank Moran was a real fight. Not an exhibition. The only difference is that by New York State Law decisions were not allowed to be rendered officially. Instead people relied on a consensus of what the newspaper experts said. This was one of the biggest, if not biggest fights of all time financially to this point. That doesn't happen for exhibitions. Had Moran knocked Willard out the title would have changed hands.

Willard's fight with Johnson was scheduled for 45 rounds, an unheard of distance. Johnson claimed the unusual length was to give promoters and managers enough time to give his wife papers promising a lenient prison stay and various prison privileges (including positions of Athletic Director, and Boxing Coach and staging boxing matches within the prison) at such time as Johnson entered the United States and was arrested. He was a fugitive from justice for violating the Mann Act. His wife needed time to read and okay the documents. Johnson claimed he got a signal from his wife after the 25th round, that she had in her possession all the promised documents and had read them all. In the 26th round Johnson delivered his end of the bargain. He claimed he took a right from Willard and faked a KO loss, shading his eyes from the sun with his forearm during the count as a message of defiance.

Ridiculous. Why would the length of the fight give people time to negotiate Johnson's surrender??? Were negotiations going on in a back room as the fight was taking place?? No. 45 rounds was not unheard of. In fact Johnson's bouts with Jeffries and Flynn for the title were also scheduled for 45 rounds, as was his first fight with Flynn that was a non title fight. Johnson wasn't arrested on charges of violating the Mann act for another five years and that came after a lot of negotiations going back and forth between Federal Marshalls based in the USA and Johnson who was now living across the border in Mexico.

Willard's Title Fight with Dempsey was scheduled for 12 rounds. He was very poorly trained and took 4 years worth of punishment in 9 minutes.

The Willard-Dempsey fight was scheduled for 12 rounds because that was the duration allowed by rules adopted by the Toledo Boxing Commission in 1918.


Get your facts straight.

[Caractacus]

This past April 5 marked the 100th anniversary of Jess Willard becoming the undisputed Heavyweight Champion of the World

Willard was the most inactive Heavyweight Champion in the History of Boxing.

well you gotta remember like Joe Louis,
a World War was going on during his title reign.
World War One began 28.July.1914 to 11.November 1918
(the United States did not enter it until 7.May.1915
with the sinking of the Luisitania
(over 16 million people died as a result of World War I )

[klompton]

How was Willard the most inactive champion in history?? That title could easily go to Jack Dempsey. He won his title in July 1919 and didn't defend it until September 1920. Then from July 1921 he didn't defend it until July 1923. Then from September 1923 he didn't defend until September 1926. He never once defended against anyone considered his top challenger. I don't think you can say that about any other HW champion in history.

[APerno]

How was Willard the most inactive champion in history?? That title could easily go to Jack Dempsey. He won his title in July 1919 and didn't defend it until September 1920. Then from July 1921 he didn't defend it until July 1923. Then from September 1923 he didn't defend until September 1926. He never once defended against anyone considered his top challenger. I don't think you can say that about any other HW champion in history.

I believe in '23 Firpo was considered the top challenger; and the same for Tunney in '26; Wills had lost his luster in '25 after being handled by, and then DQed against Sharkey. - I am not saying that Dempsey didn't hand pick his opponents, he and Rickard definitely did; but other than Wills, Dempsey wasn't actually ducking anyone, there was just slim pickings around for heavyweights. - Willard, between Johnson and Dempsey had only one defense, NWS decision over Frank Moran. He tried for a second defense against Fred Fulton in 1918, but the war (and Willard's big mouth) got in the way and the fight was canceled; but two defenses in four years is an 'inactive' champ.

[klompton]

No, Firpo was not considered the top contender for Dempsey. That honor belonged to Harry Wills. Even Firpo admitted to the press a month before the fight that he felt Wills was the top contender and would have preferred to have Wills go first so Firpo could continue to improve.

Tunney was not considered the top contender either, thats why the New York State Athletic Commission refused to allow the fight in New York and Dempsey and Rickard was forced to take his show to Philadelphia. Wills wouldnt lose his status as the #1 until Sharkey beat him after Dempsey lost to Tunney. You are mistaken in saying that fight took place in '25, it didnt.

You cant fault Willard for not fighting during the war, that was out of his hands. He tried to defend during that period. Dempsey simply held the championship hostage fighting no hopers. Miske was dying and Dempsey knew it, admitting it was a charity case, he had already knocked out Bill Brennan, Carpentier as a joke, Gibbons got his title shot by losing his HW title elimination bout in one sided fashion to a middleweight, Firpo was a crude medis creation brought here and hyped specifically by Rickard to play the exotic and get slaughtered in the process. Dempsey's reign is the biggest sham in sports history. Its on par with the black sox scandal. The idea that "besides Wills" Dempsey wasnt actually ducking anyone is comical considering Wills was his top contender at least as early as 1920 and was spoken of as a top opponent earlier than that. But, yeah, other than avoiding his top contender for 7 years his record is stellar except for all those no hopers he defended against...

[APerno]

No, Firpo was not considered the top contender for Dempsey. That honor belonged to Harry Wills. Even Firpo admitted to the press a month before the fight that he felt Wills was the top contender and would have preferred to have Wills go first so Firpo could continue to improve.

Tunney was not considered the top contender either, thats why the New York State Athletic Commission refused to allow the fight in New York and Dempsey and Rickard was forced to take his show to Philadelphia. Wills wouldnt lose his status as the #1 until Sharkey beat him after Dempsey lost to Tunney. You are mistaken in saying that fight took place in '25, it didnt.

You cant fault Willard for not fighting during the war, that was out of his hands. He tried to defend during that period. Dempsey simply held the championship hostage fighting no hopers. Miske was dying and Dempsey knew it, admitting it was a charity case, he had already knocked out Bill Brennan, Carpentier as a joke, Gibbons got his title shot by losing his HW title elimination bout in one sided fashion to a middleweight, Firpo was a crude medis creation brought here and hyped specifically by Rickard to play the exotic and get slaughtered in the process. Dempsey's reign is the biggest sham in sports history. Its on par with the black sox scandal. The idea that "besides Wills" Dempsey wasnt actually ducking anyone is comical considering Wills was his top contender at least as early as 1920 and was spoken of as a top opponent earlier than that. But, yeah, other than avoiding his top contender for 7 years his record is stellar except for all those no hopers he defended against...

You don't have to use such words as 'comical'

The Wills argument is true, but once you get by Wills, who is Dempsey really ducking? (Some argue Sharkey) - the Firpo and Tunney fights were highly anticipated fights, fans thought them worthy opponents - Willard can be blamed for his own lack of defenses. Below is a reprint of a post I wrote several months ago regarding Willard's political stupidity. It is likely you will not like it . . .but give it a read, it is mostly taken from a Boxing Illustrated article and some from Sammons' Beyond the Ring; Willard made quite a mess of things. The story is worth the read.

.................................................

The day after President Wilson called for a declaration of war against the Hun (April 2nd, 1917), the reigning heavyweight champ, Jess Willard saw an opportunity for a little free press and wired the War Department declaring his readiness to do his duty and serve his country. If Willard believed that he could make such an announcement and not follow through, he was sadly mistaken. The next day the Army wired the big Kansan that they were ready to accept his offer and offered a commission in the Army Reserves.

Not surprisingly Willard who was about to embark on a circus tour for $1000 a week did not appear for induction, instead released a second statement that he had already been rejected by the Army, in Chicago, for being “too big.” But the Army chose not to let the matter go and Captain F.R. Kenny, who was in charge of recruitment for the Windy City, assured the press that he had the authority to wave such a restriction and was ready to receive Willard. With the situation now becoming a national embarrassment Big Jess decided to go silent on the matter and went on-tour with the circus (as a celebrity rodeo cowboy,) but the press and public were not about to forget or forgive the ruse.

The following year, spring 1918, (with the war still on) Willard, who had not fought since defending against Frank Moran back in 1916, announced he was ready to defend his title against Fred Fulton, “The Minnesota Plasterer,” but the press and public would have no part of it; no one had forgotten Willard’s bogus grand-standing and a ‘stop the fight until the boys come home’ protest got legs under it.

To add injury to insult, promoter J.C. Miller announced that the big fight would be in Colorado on July 4th, Independence Day. With this (very stupid) announcement, public outcry reached such a fevered pitch that a bill calling for the fight to be stopped actually reached the floor of Congress. But before Congress could act, the Governor of Colorado announced that no such fight would take place in his State, and the fight was off.

A second attempt to make the fight in Fulton’s home State of Minnesota was also thwarted when newspapers began printing ‘cut-out / mail-in’ ballots for its readers to ‘vote for or against the fight.’ The ballots were pre-addressed to Governor Burnquist of Minnesota, and when Saint Paul became inundated with ‘no votes’ the politically minded governor quickly pulled back his offer and the fight was dead.

It would take the end of the war and two years’ worth of distant before the public and press would relent and let Willard off the hook, by then Dempsey had dispatched Fulton in 23 seconds and was the new presumptive challenger. Willard-Dempsey then took place, as we all know, on July 4th, 1919.

[Ambling Alp II]

Dempsey should have fought Wills. He should have been more active and defended it more often. However, he was hardly the worst.

Look a the title reigns of Corbett and Fitzsimmons. Johnson's title reign is comparable to Dempsey's. Look at Braddock's. Even Frazier only defended his title against Ron Stander and Terry Daniels in a 22-month period of time.

[Caractacus]

yes,but you got to put it in perspective.
THE DIDNT HAVE 24-7 Entertaintment saturation for the masses back then like they do know.
people couldnt just take time off and go to a sporting event and sleep in the day afterwards.
America had a work ethic and more important things to do then fawn over celebritities
like they do now.

[Caractacus]

Dempsey never ducked anyone that was his manager's job.

[APerno]

Dempsey should have fought Wills. He should have been more active and defended it more often. However, he was hardly the worst.

Look a the title reigns of Corbett and Fitzsimmons. Johnson's title reign is comparable to Dempsey's. Look at Braddock's. Even Frazier only defended his title against Ron Stander and Terry Daniels in a 22-month period of time.

Dempsey should have definitely fought Wills - but it was never going to happen, not with the prevailing 'nativist' temperament that dominated the 1920s; just ten years earlier the more liberal minded 'progressive period' still could not bring itself to accept a black champion - no way does the reactionary '20s do so - yes Wills got 'jobbed' - but it just wasn't going to happen.

Dempsey was fine in his number of defenses, that is fine until 1924 when he just stopped, much in the same manner as the old timers, Sullivan, Corbett, and Fitzsimmons, Dempsey just sat on the title to his convenience, Dempsey should have defend at least another three times.

[APerno]

How come BoxRec does not have a pic of Jess Willard?

http://boxrec.com/boxer/10602

[klompton]

The apologists out in full force for Dempsey I see.

Again, there doesnt have to be anyone else that Dempsey avoided. Avoiding your #1 for the duration of your career is as bad as it gets when instead you are defending against a dying man, 3 light heavies, a guy you had already knocked out, and a guy your promoter bamboozled the public into thinking was a real contender. Its absolute bullshit that A. A Wills match couldnt have been staged and B. That Dempsey was not complicit in avoiding Wills. Blame Kearns all you want but for the last year and a half of his reign Kearns was out as Dempsey's manager. Thats an often forgotten fact. Its also a fact that Dempsey, with Kearns nowhere to be found, drew the color line the day after he won the championship while riding a train back to Salt Lake City. You guys can make excuses all you want but Dempsey's reign was abysmal. Dont even talk to me about being fine as far as the number of defenses is concerned. Its not about the number of defenses its about quality and his quality was garbage. Hell, you can easily make the case he ducked Greb. His first two defenses had been beaten by Greb collectively five times in the year before he defended against them, his third title defense ducked Greb numerous times himself and wouldnt even spar with him, his fourth title defense actually lost a heavyweight title elimination bout to Greb in one sided fashion, his fifth title defense had been offered a Greb fight earlier in the year and refused asking instead for an easier opponent, and his sixth title defense Greb had defeated three times. Indeed, promoters had tried numerous times from 1918 until 1925 to match Greb and Dempsey only to come away frustrated by Dempsey's (not Greb's) refusals. So yeah, you could easily make the case that aside from Wills Greb certainly deserved a shot as much as Carpentier and Firpo and certainly more than Brennan, Miske, and Gibbons.

Again, you cant pretend Willard was as inactive as Dempsey. He tried to fight during the war years. He was prevented from it by public opinion. His inactivity was enforced, Dempsey's was volountary. Furthermore, what champions defended their titles during the war? Kilbane? Leonard, O'Dowd, Levinsky? Nope. It was frowned upon then while the public was literally begging Dempsey to defend and the commissions where threatening to strip him.

Im not sure what some post about Willard's political ineptitude has to do with anything in a post about Dempsey. After all Willard wasnt the one who publicized a fake job at a naval shipyard by inviting the press to take pictures of Dempsey in a pair of brand new coveralls and patent leather shoes. Willard wasnt the one who went on trial for being a slacker. I think we better watch who casts the first stone in relation to Jack Dempsey's war record.

[Chuck1052]

In regards to Jess Willard possibly going out of his way to avoid serving in the U.S. Armed Forces during World War I, it should be pointed out that he had a wife and five children when the U.S. was fighting during the war. At time, all of Willard's children were under ten years of age. As a result, I would think that Willard would have not had any trouble getting an exemption if he applied for one.

Up to the time that Jack Dempsey stopped Willard to become the world heavyweight champion during 1919, it was much more difficult to get a world heavyweight title bout staged in the United States for the most part because of the strong anti-boxing groups. That is one reason why a number of early world heavyweight champions had some lengthy inactive periods during their reigns.

- Chuck Johnston

[APerno]

In regards to Jess Willard possibly going out of his way to avoid serving in the U.S. Armed Forces during World War I, it should be pointed out that he had a wife and five children when the U.S. was fighting during the war. At time, all of Willard's children were under ten years of age. As a result, I would think that Willard would have not had any trouble getting an exemption if he applied for one.

Up to the time that Jack Dempsey stopped Willard to become the world heavyweight champion during 1919, it was much more difficult to get a world heavyweight title bout staged in the United States for the most part because of the strong anti-boxing groups. That is one reason why a number of early world heavyweight champions had some lengthy inactive periods during their reigns.

- Chuck Johnston

No doubt the anti-boxing people jumped on the opportunity, but Willard caused (in my opinion) his own problems, first by trying to grab a little free press, and then exasperating the problem by trying to blow it off with a quip when called on it. - Willard seems a strange cat, even your BoxRec anecdotes identify Willard as constantly claiming injury (which turn out to be questionable) every time he needs to justify a bad performance. I think according to BoxRec there are four or five times he makes such a claim. - and while you are correct about the anti-boxing movement, Jack Dempsey was able to fight 25 times in that same period (from the declaration of war on 04/17 until Armistice Day 11/11/18), including fighting Fulton, in July of 1918, (the same fight they would not let Willard have) - so there were plenty of other fights going on, but the public was particularly ticked-off with Willard.

[Caractacus]

yeah,but how many exhibitions did Jack Dempsey do while he was still champion ?
probably a whole bunch.

[Chuck1052]

As difficult it could be to stage professional boxing bouts in the United States from the 1880s to 1919, to do so was child's play compared to staging one with the world heavyweight championship at stake under the same circumstances. One reason is that anti-boxing groups really came out in force when there was even a rumor of a world heavyweight championship bout was being scheduled, something that boxing people knew well. Another thing to keep in mind is that U.S. anti-boxing groups were really strong when the U.S. entered World War I on the side of the Allies during 1917. That same year, professional boxing was banned in the state of New York, a big blow because Jess Willard successfully defended his world heavyweight title in a bout with Frank Moran in New York City during 1916. In other words, comparing Jack Dempsey's twenty-five bouts with Willard having no bouts during the war is like comparing apples and oranges.

- Chuck Johnston

[APerno]

As difficult it could be to stage professional boxing bouts in the United States from the 1880s to 1919, to do so was child's play compared to staging one with the world heavyweight championship at stake under the same circumstances. One reason is that anti-boxing groups really came out in force when there was even a rumor of a world heavyweight championship bout was being scheduled, something that boxing people knew well. Another thing to keep in mind is that U.S. anti-boxing groups were really strong when the U.S. entered World War I on the side of the Allies during 1917. That same year, professional boxing was banned in the state of New York, a big blow because Jess Willard successfully defended his world heavyweight title in a bout with Frank Moran in New York City during 1916. In other words, comparing Jack Dempsey's twenty-five bouts with Willard having no bouts during the war is like comparing apples and oranges.

- Chuck Johnston

I recognize your point about a championship fight getting much more attention, and therefore more resistance, but I guess we will have to agree to disagree here, I will stand on the argument that had Willard not tried to play the public about enlisting, he would have gotten the Fulton fight when he wanted it.

. . .and why would the start of WWI in Europe be relevant? Merely a side show until the dough-boys got there [duck] .

a second thought - doesn't Dempsey-Fulton count as 'apple to apple' - it was a big fight?

and Golden Oldie you realize I am teasing about the war . . .

[Chuck1052]

More than moral outrage, there were laws restricting or outlawing professional boxing in the United States. Such boxing laws were usually enacted at the local or state levels with the federal government generally keeping its nose out of it. But there was the federal law prohibiting the interstate transportation of fight films. In addition, a federal law was enacted to prevent a world heavyweight bout between Jim Corbett and Bob Fitzsimmons from taking place in any U.S. territory during the 1890s. At the time, there were a number of U.S. territories such as New Mexico, Arizona and Alaska were going through a phase before eventually gaining statehood.

- Chuck Johnston

[Chuck1052]

As difficult it could be to stage professional boxing bouts in the United States from the 1880s to 1919, to do so was child's play compared to staging one with the world heavyweight championship at stake under the same circumstances. One reason is that anti-boxing groups really came out in force when there was even a rumor of a world heavyweight championship bout was being scheduled, something that boxing people knew well. Another thing to keep in mind is that U.S. anti-boxing groups were really strong when the U.S. entered World War I on the side of the Allies during 1917. That same year, professional boxing was banned in the state of New York, a big blow because Jess Willard successfully defended his world heavyweight title in a bout with Frank Moran in New York City during 1916. In other words, comparing Jack Dempsey's twenty-five bouts with Willard having no bouts during the war is like comparing apples and oranges.

- Chuck Johnston

I recognize your point about a championship fight getting much more attention, and therefore more resistance, but I guess we will have to agree to disagree here, I will stand on the argument that had Willard not tried to play the public about enlisting, he would have gotten the Fulton fight when he wanted it.

. . .and why would the start of WWI in Europe be relevant? Merely a side show until the dough-boys got there [duck] .

a second thought - doesn't Dempsey-Fulton count as 'apple to apple' - it was a big fight?

and Golden Oldie you realize I am teasing about the war . . .

The bout between Jack Dempsey and Fred Fulton was far from being on the same level as a world heavyweight title bout. In fact, a world heavyweight title bout was in a class by itself, especially during that time.

- Chuck Johnston

[Ambling Alp II]

There were many places that outlawed boxing in the United States during the late 19th Century to 1920s. However, there were many places that allowed it. Willard could have fought somebody, somewhere. Next to baseball, boxing was the second popular sport in the United State. It was wildly popular in many places.
However, many heavyweight champions were reluctant to defend their title.

Corbett had one successful title defense in 5 years as champion.
Fitzsimmons didn't make his first (and unsuccessful) defense until two years after he won the title.
Johnson defended the title 7 times in 7 years, against relatively weak competition.

Burns defended it a lot but not against particularly strong competition.
Jeffries defended against tough competition but only about once a year.

Dempsey's title reign was comparable to Johnson's. Not quite as often, but against better competition.

Willard could have defended his title against someone, somewhere. He would have if the risk vs reward would have been great enough.

[Chuck1052]

Take a look at the following places where world heavyweight title bouts took place during a period of about 20 years until 1917. I also listed reasons why I think that world heavyweight title bouts were much less likely to be staged in such places while the United States was fighting in World War I on the side of the Allies:

1. The metropolitan area of New York City- During 1917, a law was passed which prohibited professional boxing in the state of New York.

2. Paris, France- France was very much involved in World War I from 1914 to 1918, which essentially shut down the fight game in the country during that time.

3. The metropolitan area of San Francisco- During the November 1914 election, a majority of the California voters cast their ballots in favor of a proposition which essentially prohibited professional boxing in the state of California.

4. Sydney, Australia- As a British Commonwealth at the time, Australia was very much involved in World War I from 1914 to 1918. While quite a few professional boxing shows were taking place in Australia during the war, major heavyweight bouts ceased to take place there and all the top heavyweights had left the commonwealth by the time the war had begun.

5. Reno, Nevada- After the governor of California stepped in to prevent the scheduled world heavyweight title bout between Jack Johnson and Jim Jeffries from being held in San Francisco during 1910, Tex Rickard, a promoter of the bout, resorted to what could be called his Plan B, staging the bout in Reno, Nevada. No other bout came close to drawing as much attention as the bout between Johnson and Jeffries before World War I. Even though Reno was a very small city and was located far from any major population center, the bout drew the biggest gate ever up to that time and the movie rights of the bout were very lucrative for the fighters and the promoters. After that bout took place, a federal law prohibiting the interstate transportation of boxing films. In addition, it remained a huge gamble to stage a world heavyweight boxing bout in such a remote place, especially when the financial success of the bout was much more dependent on the gate receipts during World War I than it would be during 1910.

6. Detroit, Michigan- During 1900, Jim Jeffries fought John Finnegan, an extremely obscure opponent, in a world heavyweight title bout in Detroit. I don't know enough about Detroit and the state of Michigan to make an evaluation about their viability to be venues for a world heavyweight bout during World War I.

7. Las Vegas, New Mexico- During 1912, Jack Johnson fought Fireman Jim Flynn in a world heavyweight title bout in Las Vegas, New Mexico, another very small city far from a major population center. According to reports, the promotion turned out to be a financial flop with Johnson taking a reduced purse.

8. Havana, Cuba- During 1915, Jack Johnson finally lost the world heavyweight title in a bout with Jess Willard in Havana, Cuba. It appears that the bout drew a large crowd. However, would that many Americans travel to Cuba to see a world heavyweight title bout after the U.S. entered World War I? I would think that a lot of Americans would have to attend such a bout in Cuba for it to be a financial success.

Taking a look at the sports scene in the United States after the country entered World War I on the side of the Allies during 1917, one finds it generally was tough time for the athletes, team owners and promoters, especially in 1918. Major League Baseball especially had a very difficult time during 1918 with a significantly smaller attendance. Although there was quite a bit of boxing activity on a small scale in the U.S., it seemed that there weren't that many important bouts taking place in the country during 1917 and 1918.

I am not saying that it was absolutely impossible for Jess Willard to have a title defense during 1917 or 1918. But it is obvious that it would have been far more difficult for him to do so at the time than it would have been before and afterwards.

- Chuck Johnston

[Caractacus]

Jess Willard defends the title March.25.1916 Madison Square Garden New York City .
(after this fight prize fighting was once again made illegal in the state of New York)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpZdSNB93Mo

[Caractacus]

also you may want to factor in the 1918-1919 Influenza pandemic that happened during Jess Willard's title reign
which reportly infected almost 30 percent of the US population
and almost 700,000 people died from it in the USA alone.
(estimated beween 50-100 million people died from it around the world)

[Caractacus]

also Jess Willard went to Hollywood to star in a silent movie
"The Challenge of Chance "
which was released 18.June1919
just two weeks before his fight with Dempsey in Toledo Ohio.
It was a western and was 70 minutes in length.
( and here is a link to an old Lobbycard of the film as proof)

http://www.josportsinc.com/catalog/view.php?id=16274

[Caractacus]

I remember reading somewhere that Willard knocked Jack Johnson's golden teeth loose during the fight,
and Johnson swallowed them instead of spatting them out on the canvas for the sun to shine
on them because he didnt want to give the haters the satisfaction of seeing that.