What do BoxRec Forum goers make of career of Gerry Cooney?

[Joe Speck]

I was in College when Cooney was star. It was impossible the media attention he generated. Talking it on both the boxing side as well as the general.
In retrospect, I'll be interested to read the take fans are left with concerning the man's whole career.
He was awesome standing there for a little while!

[SaadOffTheDeck]

He made a lot of money. Decent offensive fighter with power, pourous defense was his biggest problem. Chaplin was his best win.

[Caractacus]

There have been a couple of lengthy threads here about him from a few years ago,will try and bump them up for you.

[APerno]

Larry Merchant called Holmes over Cooney his most satisfying outcome; he felt that Cooney was an upstart (my word, not his) who hadn't earned his shot, and that the Holmes victory was a 'redemption of professionalism' (his words, not mine). I don't agree with Merchant, but I can see his point.

[Tony1244]

Power a bit overrated. He had good power but not devastating power like the rumor mill stated.

Boxing ability a bit underrated. He couldn't box as well as Holmes but he may have won 3-4 against Larry by boxing which surprised just about everybody.

I thought at the time that he was just a big lug with amazing power who couldn't box much. I was wrong because I bought into the hype. Now that we have youtube, you can see he was a decent boxer. Watch the Malik Dozer and Leroy Boone fights. The later is on youtube, not sure about the former. He financially benefited from the white hope hype. He had drug and alcohol issues which came out later.

Good guy from a screwed up middle class background.

[Caractacus]

Power a bit overrated. He had good power but not devastating power like the rumor mill stated.

Boxing ability a bit underrated. He couldn't box as well as Holmes but he may have won 3-4 against Larry by boxing which surprised just about everybody.

I thought at the time that he was just a big lug with amazing power who couldn't box much. I was wrong because I bought into the hype. Now that we have youtube, you can see he was a decent boxer. Watch the Malik Dozer and Leroy Boone fights. The later is on youtube, not sure about the former. He financially benefited from the white hope hype. He had drug and alcohol issues which came out later.

Good guy from a screwed up middle class background.

working class (there is a difference)

[Joe Speck]

He made a lot of money. Decent offensive fighter with power, pourous defense was his biggest problem. Chaplin was his best win.

I would pick Eddie Lopez as Cooney's best win. Norton and Lyle wins each ar very deceitful. Worth nothing. The Jimmy Young win in retrospect looks good. 2 1/2 years past Young's prime. He yet has eight years until his career ended. I remember the Dino Denis match for Cooney's coming out. His last 'W', which came against Eddie Gregg was good match for him to take. 24-1-1 entry. Not a spectacular record & yet, solid at club level. Phil Brown (23-0-2) a good entry for him.

[elmersalsa]

Overrated boxer that got hyped too quickly for a heavyweight world championship fight. In the fight with the great Larry Holmes, it was a fight between a real professional against an upstart amateur. A complete mismatch.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

He made a lot of money. Decent offensive fighter with power, pourous defense was his biggest problem. Chaplin was his best win.

I would pick Eddie Lopez as Cooney's best win. Norton and Lyle wins each ar very deceitful. Worth nothing. The Jimmy Young win in retrospect looks good. 2 1/2 years past Young's prime. He yet has eight years until his career ended. I remember the Dino Denis match for Cooney's coming out. His last 'W', which came against Eddie Gregg was good match for him to take. 24-1-1 entry. Not a spectacular record & yet, solid at club level. Phil Brown (23-0-2) a good entry for him.

George would school Eddie.

[Tony1244]

Good honest pro who did his best, but was found to be lacking against class opposition. Not too much wrong with that.

Funny how you lambasted SRL for ducking a few people and/or waiting for them to get older, but Cooney, who I also liked very much ducked Witherspoon, Tubbs, Weaver, Dokes, Page, and Shavers to name a few. Just saying...

[GPTM1403]

Massively overhyped at start of his career, through no fault of his own, which he has admitted since he never handled properly, was and still is probably underrated now because of the hype. He lost to Holmes, one of the best champions ever, but showed more ability than most figured he had. Ultimately in another age (especially more recently) he'd probably have picked up a world title of some sort and worse than him have held a share of the title but then it also seems that he never really wanted it more than his problems stopped him wanting it, if that makes sense. He wasn't anywhere near as good as the hype but wasn't as bad as the negative views he now gets and like I say, worse than him have held shares of world title.

[Tony1244]

Good honest pro who did his best, but was found to be lacking against class opposition. Not too much wrong with that.

Funny how you lambasted SRL for ducking a few people and/or waiting for them to get older, but Cooney, who I also liked very much ducked Witherspoon, Tubbs, Weaver, Dokes, Page, and Shavers to name a few. Just saying...

Oh come on please. Whoever rated Cooney as anything other than a " great white hope "? There is no comparison between him and Leonard in ability, or even marketability.

If you mean SRL is way ahead of Cooney in ability we agree. However if, yeah its a big IF, if Cooney had beaten Holmes in good fashion, Cooney would have surpassed SRL in marketability by miles.

[Tony1244]

Oh come on please. Whoever rated Cooney as anything other than a " great white hope "? There is no comparison between him and Leonard in ability, or even marketability.

If you mean SRL is way ahead of Cooney in ability we agree. However if, yeah its a big IF, if Cooney had beaten Holmes in good fashion, Cooney would have surpassed SRL in marketability by miles.

I think we both know that Cooney couldn't possibly have beaten Holmes as long as his ass pointed downwards.

Cooney was a bit of a mystery at the time. The oddsmakers had the fight a pickem' I believe.

[Joe Speck]

He made a lot of money. Decent offensive fighter with power, pourous defense was his biggest problem. Chaplin was his best win.

I would pick Eddie Lopez as Cooney's best win. Norton and Lyle wins each ar very deceitful. Worth nothing. The Jimmy Young win in retrospect looks good. 2 1/2 years past Young's prime. He yet has eight years until his career ended. I remember the Dino Denis match for Cooney's coming out. His last 'W', which came against Eddie Gregg was good match for him to take. 24-1-1 entry. Not a spectacular record & yet, solid at club level. Phil Brown (23-0-2) a good entry for him.

George would school Eddie.

I'm only looking at each of their records. Here/there who/what/when. Your pick of George Chapin to ~school~ Eddie Lopez is really Nobel wisdom!
Facts are that pretty much they are in same neighborhood. Like Larry Middleton and Henry Clark are in same neighborhood. Some would say Bob Foster and Billy Conn same neighborhood. Just like Rocky Graziano and Marcel Cerdan are NOT in same neighborhood.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I watched them both fight several times, Lopez never did anything like dominate page over 22 rounds. Not that George was a god, just a level higher. Clearly

[Joe Speck]

I watched them both fight several times, Lopez never did anything like dominate page over 22 rounds. Not that George was a god, just a level higher. Clearly

So..what you write..I stop to contemplate it. Hmm...would Lynn Ball play rank beside your pick here? Then, getting into the nitty gritty here I see Lynn once defeated George (SD-10,3-21-82).
Putting the two fighters side be side and refining it yeah..I could see it ranking George Chapin higher.
He's 35 (dob 00-00-1951) when last match came. tKo-4 loss v. Jesse Ferguson 14-4-0 then. Let's say Chapin past his prime or washed by then. One match prior he took W-10 v. Proud Kilimanjaro (22-1-0). Good win on any date. But one bout prior there he L-UD10 v Melvin Epps a 10-11-1 fighter. Just before Epps was when Chapin fought G.Cooney and what your calling his "top win". That was tKo-2 (2:51) loss. Prior there Chapin W-tKo7 useful Tom Fischer. Fischer 34-7-0 at the time. Sometime earlier Chapin fought Ernie Shavers. Bio gives it out as Shavers (38) bad out of shape. Chapin wins Dq-9 (10) but it may as well been decision win Chapin no mistake. Just prior to Shavers he is in against the raising David Bey. 8-0 then. LtKo-4 (10). And just prior to Bey was the Lynn Ball confrontation. Bio on fight says he has Ball down o e time. Still it's loss. Prior to the Lynn Ball meeting is against one Don Spellman a 11-4-1 fighter W-UD10. Spellman, by the way..retired 15(5)-5(0)-1. Prior to Spellman..Chapin L-UD10 v. Michael Dokes (22-0-1). Prior to that was the second v Greg Page. 1981. He fights Cooney in '84.
Prior to Page II he is in against another legend world v Coetzee who's 23-2-0 then..L-UD10. And prior there he picks Draw-10 v Jimmy Abbott (16-1-0 and star in S.A.) and prior to Abbott was first Greg Page match. 1ST is MD-10, 2nd is SD-12.
Prior to Page Chapin gained a great degree of world cross over noteriety with the loss he put to Bobick. WRTD-6 the record book calls that one. I think Duane was cut. In the same time line vacinity he had both Larry Alexander (13-6-1) as well as Wendell Bailey (12-2-0) go the distance against him (W-UD12 both). Neither fighter what Duane was. Bailey not 1/2 what Duane was. Alexander not 3/5ths what Duane was.
Early, Mike Koranicki split two fights with George C. (ea. 10 round matches).
That "The Animal" took G.Cooney to 8-round distance did a lot for Lopez's career really.
The Bobick AND the Page matches put Chapin on the maps in very unique way. And..Page was someone we always knew he was destined for greatness. His whole career shocking and sad really. But in the end really, who's rated better him or Tony Tucker? Tucker! And Tucker figures close in this picture too if you comb it close.
All in all I think that Lopez the more strength WIN for GC talking the scope of his whole career.
Their careers beside one another yeah..could rate Chapin greater. If they fought could see Chapin winning. But, it!s any 24/6 given!

[ClivePatrickLyons]

Cooney was a world class fighter who got a lot out of his career probably more so money wise then ring achievement he was billed as the great white hope against Larry Holmes when he was the Challenger they both got $10 million each in the early 80's he probably didn't get everything out of his talent but sure did out of his hype he got some big fight's later against Michael Spinks and a come-backing George Foreman.

[HomicideHenry]

Larry Holmes probably said it best of Gerry.... (more or less) that had it been anyone else fighting him for the world championship, Gerry Cooney would have been heavyweight champion of the world.... I think had Cooney fought the likes of Gerrie Coetzee, Mike Weaver, etc. he would have been the champion. Of course quite a few would disagree with me and their arguments are sound enough: after all, who had Cooney really defeated to warrant such an assumption?

However, he demonstrated the kind of heart and desire, combined with impressive punching power and size (for the era anyways) to have overcome many a man who had greater pedigrees (wins) than him. Unfortunately, following the Holmes fight, Cooney spiraled out of control and became a mentally and emotionally frail man, and this did not benefit him as a fighter at all. The Cooney who fought Holmes, without question, would have defeated Michael Spinks. The Cooney that appeared before The Spinks Jinx, however, was a shell of a man who was once the highest paid contender in the sports history (up until that time anyways).

I'd of liked to have seen him tested a bit more. I'd of liked to of seen the Tyson-Cooney fight that was much talked about, but never happened. There's alot of things I'd of liked to have seen. But, it is what it is. Everything you ever needed to know about Cooney's worth is in the Holmes fight, and no matter how many detractors there are who talk down "The Great White Hope" as nothing more than hype: he still went thirteen competitive hard fought rounds with arguably the second best heavyweight of all time (for me, personally, I think Larry is actually #1 because he's the only guy I can think of who had the best chance of beating any version of Ali in a series of fights).

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I watched them both fight several times, Lopez never did anything like dominate page over 22 rounds. Not that George was a god, just a level higher. Clearly

So..what you write..I stop to contemplate it. Hmm...would Lynn Ball play rank beside your pick here? Then, getting into the nitty gritty here I see Lynn once defeated George (SD-10,3-21-82).
Putting the two fighters side be side and refining it yeah..I could see it ranking George Chapin higher.
He's 35 (dob 00-00-1951) when last match came. tKo-4 loss v. Jesse Ferguson 14-4-0 then. Let's say Chapin past his prime or washed by then. One match prior he took W-10 v. Proud Kilimanjaro (22-1-0). Good win on any date. But one bout prior there he L-UD10 v Melvin Epps a 10-11-1 fighter. Just before Epps was when Chapin fought G.Cooney and what your calling his "top win". That was tKo-2 (2:51) loss. Prior there Chapin W-tKo7 useful Tom Fischer. Fischer 34-7-0 at the time. Sometime earlier Chapin fought Ernie Shavers. Bio gives it out as Shavers (38) bad out of shape. Chapin wins Dq-9 (10) but it may as well been decision win Chapin no mistake. Just prior to Shavers he is in against the raising David Bey. 8-0 then. LtKo-4 (10). And just prior to Bey was the Lynn Ball confrontation. Bio on fight says he has Ball down o e time. Still it's loss. Prior to the Lynn Ball meeting is against one Don Spellman a 11-4-1 fighter W-UD10. Spellman, by the way..retired 15(5)-5(0)-1. Prior to Spellman..Chapin L-UD10 v. Michael Dokes (22-0-1). Prior to that was the second v Greg Page. 1981. He fights Cooney in '84.
Prior to Page II he is in against another legend world v Coetzee who's 23-2-0 then..L-UD10. And prior there he picks Draw-10 v Jimmy Abbott (16-1-0 and star in S.A.) and prior to Abbott was first Greg Page match. 1ST is MD-10, 2nd is SD-12.
Prior to Page Chapin gained a great degree of world cross over noteriety with the loss he put to Bobick. WRTD-6 the record book calls that one. I think Duane was cut. In the same time line vacinity he had both Larry Alexander (13-6-1) as well as Wendell Bailey (12-2-0) go the distance against him (W-UD12 both). Neither fighter what Duane was. Bailey not 1/2 what Duane was. Alexander not 3/5ths what Duane was.
Early, Mike Koranicki split two fights with George C. (ea. 10 round matches).
That "The Animal" took G.Cooney to 8-round distance did a lot for Lopez's career really.
The Bobick AND the Page matches put Chapin on the maps in very unique way. And..Page was someone we always knew he was destined for greatness. His whole career shocking and sad really. But in the end really, who's rated better him or Tony Tucker? Tucker! And Tucker figures close in this picture too if you comb it close.
All in all I think that Lopez the more strength WIN for GC talking the scope of his whole career.
Their careers beside one another yeah..could rate Chapin greater. If they fought could see Chapin winning. But, it!s any 24/6 given!

Have you watched any of the fights? Or are you just using the data base?

Edit: I should say that I have a soft spot for George being from Baltimore and the Shavers fight was my first live card. I just ask if you watched the fights because he was robbed twice against Page and competitive, though clearly beaten, against Coetzee & Dokes. Though I must say, my definitive statement about the Cooney win could well be off base. George was pretty much done at the time.

[pound per pound]

Larry Holmes probably said it best of Gerry.... (more or less) that had it been anyone else fighting him for the world championship, Gerry Cooney would have been heavyweight champion of the world.... I think had Cooney fought the likes of Gerrie Coetzee, Mike Weaver, etc. he would have been the champion. Of course quite a few would disagree with me and their arguments are sound enough: after all, who had Cooney really defeated to warrant such an assumption?

However, he demonstrated the kind of heart and desire, combined with impressive punching power and size (for the era anyways) to have overcome many a man who had greater pedigrees (wins) than him. Unfortunately, following the Holmes fight, Cooney spiraled out of control and became a mentally and emotionally frail man, and this did not benefit him as a fighter at all. The Cooney who fought Holmes, without question, would have defeated Michael Spinks. The Cooney that appeared before The Spinks Jinx, however, was a shell of a man who was once the highest paid contender in the sports history (up until that time anyways).

I'd of liked to have seen him tested a bit more. I'd of liked to of seen the Tyson-Cooney fight that was much talked about, but never happened. There's alot of things I'd of liked to have seen. But, it is what it is. Everything you ever needed to know about Cooney's worth is in the Holmes fight, and no matter how many detractors there are who talk down "The Great White Hope" as nothing more than hype: he still went thirteen competitive hard fought rounds with arguably the second best heavyweight of all time (for me, personally, I think Larry is actually #1 because he's the only guy I can think of who had the best chance of beating any version of Ali in a series of fights).

A very good post. Regarding Cooney's hype, he won the New York Golden Gloves at heavyweight, which at the time meant something.

As Don King pointed out 100 times, he was also Irish, and White.

His Amateur career included a huge KO in Madison Square Garden over the Russian team.

Cooney's biggest problem in retrospect was his wonder twin management team that did not develop him properly, just an all right trainer who never developed his right hand, and personal issues outside the ring after he lost to Holmes. Had Cooney fought someone else in 1982, and waited another year, Holmes would have been 34, and who knows.

But he faced a still prime version of Larry Holmes and likely won 4-5 rounds overcoming an early knockdown to make a fight of it until round 10 when he started to tire.

Holmes was actually hurt in round four by a body shot, and even Larry admitted the bell rang at a good time for him.

[Joe Speck]

Saad: thanks for all that. No...I will watch films yes I will but haven't looked at any of them in question. Yes, data. I'm very very very keen on the data. Too, current fights. One can read multiple sources and basically get what the picture is. I don't misread.
Henry, you say Cooney-Tyson was possible? Not certain I ever heard that before. What? GC banking on taking him when he was yet green? Maybe Gerry could win in the real time with psychology Etc plus Tyson yet very very green. That's for being hopeful GC fan.

[Joe Speck]

LB4LB, that 13 month lay off prior to face off against Larry no help either.
Gerry's management dug TOO deep to find death names. Lyle, great name and at decrepit part of his career. Norton, "bad".
I guess they did the best they thought. He did have an incredible whole career looking at it from the bank and the boxer himself. Who knows what would of come if they threw the wrong foe into his path. Renaldo Snipes; Carl "The Truth" Williams..so many to choose.

[Controversial]

Awful prep for the Holmes fight, he fought 2 rounds in two years prior to fighting for the title and one of those rounds lasted 54 seconds.

[Badhusker]

I watched Cooney a few times. Good heavyweight but not great with decent names on resumes but at the end of their careers. The one thing that sticks in my mind is what George Foreman said about the hardest he had ever got hit was by Cooney.

[Nile4000]

I think Gerry was a good fighter, but like Tony Ayala Jr, a quite bit overrated in terms of his accomplishments and potential. The Holmes loss truly put a tremendous toll on him, and psychologically, probably never recovered. In truth, maybe Gerry didn't have the heart for the sport, but there were several others prospects out there that you could say the same. Unlike Ayala, seems to be a real, cool person. In addition, his managers should have found anyway they could of to fight Mike Weaver instead of Larry Holmes, because, at minimum, he may have become a world champ, even though I felt it would be 50/50 chance against Weaver.