Fighters who never got props for beating a great or taking their title

[handsofstone]

Sorry for the poo title thread, I couldn't quite word it proper

There's a few great/good fighters who never really got the kudos they deserved because they beat a well loved and long standing champion, a lot of the time a fighter would beat an ageing champ so already the knives would be out, other times the new champ would go on to have an excellent career but struggle for the acceptance,fame and credit they'd earned

Going way back Marvin Hart was criticised for only winning James J Jeffries old vacant belt as Jeffries was the undefeated,undisputed champ who'd beat Fitzsimmons and Corbett,so Hart wasn't really accepted like Jeffries plus Hart's reign wasn't that long

Then you had Tunney in Dempsey's shadow, Holmes in Ali's and Bugner in Cooper's

Why did Saddler never get the same adulation as Pep despite beating him 3 times out of 4? Was it because he beat a great champ?

[handsofstone]

Sorry I thought I posted this in Boxing History

[dookus]

Why did Saddler never get the same adulation as Pep despite beating him 3 times out of 4? Was it because he beat a great champ?

All their fights came after Pep's plane crash, after which he was never quite the same fighter. And probably a bit of racial prejudice.

[littlepug]

What about terry Norris taking apart an aging sugar ray ? it was a great display from Norris but I suppose each person will rank it differently depending on how much they think ray had left at that point, I would like to think that ray still had a little left at that point but not enough to contain a fireball like norris

[davie]

I'd also say the rest of Pep career is significantly better than Saddlers. Saddler gets plenty of props for the win but he's not a greater fighter than Pep.
Sometimes one man just has the measure of someone, the way styles mesh or the timing of the encounters

Jermaine Taylor wasn't greater than Hopkin, Tarver wasn't greater than RJJ and Ezzard wasn't greater than Archie Moore (IMO) but they deserve credit for the wins

[TheLeprechaun]

I don't think Lewis got enough credit for the Vitali win.

It's become one of my favorite fights that. I love watching a great fighter with his back against the wall, losing a fight, and having to use all his greatness to turn it around and win. Lewis has a rough first 2 rounds, got clobbered with klitschkos best right hand in round two, and still kept coming and pressuring. Too much heart for Vitali that night. Steward is the corner telling him to keep the pressure on and you knew Lewis was going to do what Manny advised. Lewis won the fight fair and square. Vitalis face was horrid and that monster uppercut he took in the last round is one of my favorite punches ever landed. I thought Vitali was holding on in the last 10 seconds of the round and wouldnt have done 12 with Lewis that night. Or any night for that matter.

The way Lewis approached that fight made me a huge fan. He didn't really know how hard Vitali hit but he was more than prepared to come forward and if he had to take some to land some he would.

Even though he was fat and old, I'd take that Lewis over any heavyweight today.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Saddler was violently dirty. That being said, he has better wins than pep by a significant margin. Douglas doesn't get nearly enough credit for kicking Tyson's ass. It's all about distractions, women, Rooney, bad rice, blah, blah, blah. Asswhipping

[TheGman]

I don't think Lewis got enough credit for the Vitali win.

It's become one of my favorite fights that. I love watching a great fighter with his back against the wall, losing a fight, and having to use all his greatness to turn it around and win. Lewis has a rough first 2 rounds, got clobbered with klitschkos best right hand in round two, and still kept coming and pressuring. Too much heart for Vitali that night. Steward is the corner telling him to keep the pressure on and you knew Lewis was going to do what Manny advised. Lewis won the fight fair and square. Vitalis face was horrid and that monster uppercut he took in the last round is one of my favorite punches ever landed. I thought Vitali was holding on in the last 10 seconds of the round and wouldnt have done 12 with Lewis that night. Or any night for that matter.

The way Lewis approached that fight made me a huge fan. He didn't really know how hard Vitali hit but he was more than prepared to come forward and if he had to take some to land some he would.

Even though he was fat and old, I'd take that Lewis over any heavyweight today.

And lewis wasnt meant to fight vitali that night,vital came in with two weeks notice. There is no way vitali would of beat lennox lewis,like u say, that night or any other night and again as you say lewis took some heavy shots that night against a guy who had a better knockout percentage than earnie shavers but still people say lewis couldnt take a shot. Lewis was the best heavyweight from about 94/95-2002/3 but still doesnt get any credit cause he got knocked out twice or because he fought in the olympics for canada but fought for britain in the pro's or because he is canadian and not american. Imo lewis jab was better than holmes jab. His uppercuts against justin fortune in ireland was better than the vitali one tho. Lewis beat every man he fought and all bar 1 (bowe) of the guys around im his era

[mickey1975]

Lewis was a great fighter, but will always have getting sparked by two fringe world class fighters against him. And I think he classes himself as Jamaican.

[Matt W]

Saddler was violently dirty. That being said, he has better wins than pep by a significant margin. Douglas doesn't get nearly enough credit for kicking Tyson's ass. It's all about distractions, women, Rooney, bad rice, blah, blah, blah. Asswhipping

This. Never has a fighter had more apologists than Tyson. He was undoubtedly a fantastic fighter but there are so many excuses made for his defeats, a benefit that isn't afforded other fighters i.e. Lewis whose (avenged) defeats seem to be held against him more. As for the excuses themselves, well, preparation is rarely perfect and it is how you cope with them that determines true greatness. Didn't train? Well, that's all part of being a world champion and is no more an excuse than a glass jaw is. Anyway, Ali apparently took training lightly for Frazier 3 thinking Joe was shot. Distracted by women? Hell, he had gonorrhoea when he fought Berbick!!! Tyson was always a womaniser, as was Ali. In the end, whatever excuses are made it's the record that stands in history and Tyson's tells the story, a fantastic attacking fighter that feel just short of the all time greats, who failed to avenge his defeats (and I'd happily discount all of those after Holyfield as a fighter that was way past his best) and whose defeats were comprehensive and showed the way to beat him.