Prime Holyfield (1988-1992)- undisputed CW/HW champion 2017 ?

[amwsnw]

Holyfield fought very weak comp at Cruiser. His main weapon was the top of his head -- and he later got knocked out by a Middleweight Champion.

Usyk is a very slick southpaw who doesn't need dirty stuff... He's never lost and it looks like nobody could compete with him... I don't rank Holyfield up there with Haye, Usyk, and Toney -- EH was a little too easy to hit -- but he's definitely among the Top-10 Cruiserweights of all time.

In a Heavyweight matchup, Joshua would crush Holy like a roach... You thought Foreman-Frazier was a stompfest??? Pity poor Mr. Evan Fields.

Joshua beat Holyfield - classic!! Holy would have too much speed, and if aj landed on him which is highly unlikely he would receive 5 in return which would slow him immensely. usyk- mmmm, not quite in the real deals league but interesting thoughts. And tones at cruiser v a prime Holyfield I think would've taken way too much punishment. Remember your talking prime holy.

[jezzamundo]

He hurt old George more than anyone else. Floored mercer, Tyson, qawi & bowe with one punch. I don't know of any other fighter that did that to any of them past wlad with ancient mercer.

I agree he hurt old George more than anyone - but it took a hell of a lot of flush shots to do it. The Mercer KD and Tyson KO are impressive, no doubt. Qawi was really a natural light heavyweight, though he was tough and highly skilled and I think Bowe's chin is overrated - he never faced an elite puncher. I tend to think that for a heavyweight, Holyfield has 7/10 power. Shavers or Foreman would be a 10, Wlad or Lewis would be a 9, Bowe would be an 8.

[ValMar]

He hurt old George more than anyone else. Floored mercer, Tyson, qawi & bowe with one punch. I don't know of any other fighter that did that to any of them past wlad with ancient mercer.

I agree he hurt old George more than anyone - but it took a hell of a lot of flush shots to do it. The Mercer KD and Tyson KO are impressive, no doubt. Qawi was really a natural light heavyweight, though he was tough and highly skilled and I think Bowe's chin is overrated - he never faced an elite puncher. I tend to think that for a heavyweight, Holyfield has 7/10 power. Shavers or Foreman would be a 10, Wlad or Lewis would be a 9, Bowe would be an 8.

Jezzamundo, an excellent observation !
...Although, I think Holyfield's power was 8/10...Something like present-day Parker...

[Bard of Boxrec]

Can't believe I've had to read through yet another AIDS thread of people who don't understand the fact that size can be overcome by skills.

I may be dreaming but I'm sure someone even said Wlad would beat Holy, and even that Fury would beat Holy

[Rexob]

Can't believe I've had to read through yet another AIDS thread of people who don't understand the fact that size can be overcome by skills.

I may be dreaming but I'm sure someone even said Wlad would beat Holy, and even that Fury would beat Holy

Fury would beat Holyfield

[ValMar]

Can't believe I've had to read through yet another AIDS thread of people who don't understand the fact that size can be overcome by skills.

I may be dreaming but I'm sure someone even said Wlad would beat Holy, and even that Fury would beat Holy

Fury would beat Holyfield

Just now it would be a very interesting and competitive match.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

He hurt old George more than anyone else. Floored mercer, Tyson, qawi & bowe with one punch. I don't know of any other fighter that did that to any of them past wlad with ancient mercer.

I agree he hurt old George more than anyone - but it took a hell of a lot of flush shots to do it. The Mercer KD and Tyson KO are impressive, no doubt. Qawi was really a natural light heavyweight, though he was tough and highly skilled and I think Bowe's chin is overrated - he never faced an elite puncher. I tend to think that for a heavyweight, Holyfield has 7/10 power. Shavers or Foreman would be a 10, Wlad or Lewis would be a 9, Bowe would be an 8.

All of those guys hit harder, put vitali at a 6 and we're good.

[Enlightened-One]

He hurt old George more than anyone else. Floored mercer, Tyson, qawi & bowe with one punch. I don't know of any other fighter that did that to any of them past wlad with ancient mercer.

Are you referring to Evander Holyfield?

In terms of the “old” Foreman, I reckon Alex Stewart busted him up much more than Evander Holyfield did. And let’s not forget that the “young” version of “Big” George was troubled deeply by the likes of Ron Lyle, Jimmy Young and Muhammad Ali.

[Rexob]

Can't believe I've had to read through yet another AIDS thread of people who don't understand the fact that size can be overcome by skills.

I may be dreaming but I'm sure someone even said Wlad would beat Holy, and even that Fury would beat Holy

Fury would beat Holyfield

Just now it would be a very interesting and competitive match.

Don't be daft.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Yeah, fury is in no kind of condition to deal with the real right now. Not even fair to ask tubby to try.

[ValMar]

Fury would beat Holyfield

Just now it would be a very interesting and competitive match.

Don't be daft.

I was not serious, of course, but....
...Prime Holyfield was two or three levels above prime Cunningham...
...Post-prime Cunningham dropped Fury...
...And, can you imagine what prime Holyfield would do with Fury ?
I can....

[Rexob]

Fury was still learning against Cunningham, the Fury who beat klit would have beat Holyfield, he would have boxed his ears off. Hopefully we will see Fury again just to show the non believers like yourself, what he is about.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

You obviously don't rate holyfield at all. Fury looked better against Cunningham. He was woeful against wlad.

[ValMar]

Fury was still learning against Cunningham, the Fury who beat klit would have beat Holyfield, he would have boxed his ears off. Hopefully we will see Fury again just to show the non believers like yourself, what he is about.

I would like to see Tyson Fury boxing again, ASAP. Really...

[Blodhemn]

All of those guys hit harder, put vitali at a 6 and we're good.

Eh, Vitali's right hand was a pretty serious weapon, especially earlier in his career. If that shot is a 6, then Holyfield is a 4.

[Bard of Boxrec]

Fury was still learning against Cunningham, the Fury who beat klit would have beat Holyfield, he would have boxed his ears off. Hopefully we will see Fury again just to show the non believers like yourself, what he is about.

Ah, the classic 'but he was still developing!' argument.

Apparently all he had to do to become Willie Pep since he got decked by Cunningham was fight the murderer's row of Christian Hammer, joey Abell and a shop worn Chisora. Being in with those guys sure teaches a guy how to fight better. And the acid test to prove his mission to fistic wizardry was complete, was against a guy who threw no punches

[danconnollyeire]

He would win against Daffy Duck, and proved it against Valuev, where the 43 year old Holyfield showed a better performance as Daffy Duck in his prime right after. I think he would also easely win against Stiverne, and against Wilder, and against Parker he has a fair chance. On the other side, that's really about it, I can't see him winning against Klitschko, AJ, Ortiz, Fury, or name them and he would be an underdog against Povetkin.

Absolutely no chance Holyfield is an underdog against Povetkin - he's at least a whole level ahead of the Russian. I'd have him favourite over all the other heavyweights you've mentioned too, though we don't really know how good AJ is yet, so it's possible I could change my mind on him in the future.

We're talking about a 210 ish pound guy vs 250 ish pound guys, that's like a cruiserweight vs a super middleweight. You can't beat that difference.

Why not? Froch would beat most CWs

[Rexob]

You obviously don't rate holyfield at all. Fury looked better against Cunningham. He was woeful against wlad.

Don't get me wrong Holyfield was one of the best ever a brilliantly talented cruiserweight taking on all the heavy and beating most, was some record.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

You obviously don't rate holyfield at all. Fury looked better against Cunningham. He was woeful against wlad.

Don't get me wrong Holyfield was one of the best ever a brilliantly talented cruiserweight taking on all the heavy and beating most, was some record.

Why would he lose to a slow clumsy guy that barely punches.

[asdfjkl]

Absolutely no chance Holyfield is an underdog against Povetkin - he's at least a whole level ahead of the Russian. I'd have him favourite over all the other heavyweights you've mentioned too, though we don't really know how good AJ is yet, so it's possible I could change my mind on him in the future.

We're talking about a 210 ish pound guy vs 250 ish pound guys, that's like a cruiserweight vs a super middleweight. You can't beat that difference.

Why not? Froch would beat most CWs

I have no clue who Frog is, but fact remainst that a top welterweight won't beat a top cruiserweight, simple as that.

[jezzamundo]

We're talking about a 210 ish pound guy vs 250 ish pound guys, that's like a cruiserweight vs a super middleweight. You can't beat that difference.

Why not? Froch would beat most CWs

I have no clue who Frog is, but fact remainst that a top welterweight won't beat a top cruiserweight, simple as that.

I don't think anyone disagrees that a top welterweight won't beat a top cruiserweight, but it's clear that the difference size makes is bigger at lower weights. A 250lb heavyweight vs a 210lb heavyweight is far less of an advantage than a 200lb cruiserweight vs a 160lb middleweight and I would argue less of an advantage than a 200lb cruiserweight vs a 175lb light heavyweight.

[ValMar]

Why not? Froch would beat most CWs

I have no clue who Frog is, but fact remainst that a top welterweight won't beat a top cruiserweight, simple as that.

I don't think anyone disagrees that a top welterweight won't beat a top cruiserweight, but it's clear that the difference size makes is bigger at lower weights. A 250lb heavyweight vs a 210lb heavyweight is far less of an advantage than a 200lb cruiserweight vs a 160lb middleweight and I would argue less of an advantage than a 200lb cruiserweight vs a 175lb light heavyweight.

You are right ! 100 %..........

[asdfjkl]

I have no clue who Frog is, but fact remainst that a top welterweight won't beat a top cruiserweight, simple as that.

I don't think anyone disagrees that a top welterweight won't beat a top cruiserweight, but it's clear that the difference size makes is bigger at lower weights. A 250lb heavyweight vs a 210lb heavyweight is far less of an advantage than a 200lb cruiserweight vs a 160lb middleweight and I would argue less of an advantage than a 200lb cruiserweight vs a 175lb light heavyweight.

You are right ! 100 %..........

Well, Daffy Duck vs Wladimir Klitschko showed me about the opposite, but appearantly many people looked at it in a completely different way as I did and think Daffy is simply not that good in boxing.

[jezzamundo]

I don't think anyone disagrees that a top welterweight won't beat a top cruiserweight, but it's clear that the difference size makes is bigger at lower weights. A 250lb heavyweight vs a 210lb heavyweight is far less of an advantage than a 200lb cruiserweight vs a 160lb middleweight and I would argue less of an advantage than a 200lb cruiserweight vs a 175lb light heavyweight.

You are right ! 100 %..........

Well, Daffy Duck vs Wladimir Klitschko showed me about the opposite, but appearantly many people looked at it in a completely different way as I did and think Daffy is simply not that good in boxing.

Wlad has proven to be very good at making his size an issue. Some here incorrectly stated that all the Klits have is size - if that were true, then guys like Breazeale and Jameel McCline would be dominant champs. Against Povetkin, Wlad used his size and skills in combination with illegal tactics to make it a one-sided fight. Haye's relative lack of size was certainly a disadvantage against Wlad, but Wlad's athleticism, jab and power were also major factors. Still, Haye did better than most of Wlad's larger pponents in going the distance and winning some rounds.

[Bard of Boxrec]

You are right ! 100 %..........

Well, Daffy Duck vs Wladimir Klitschko showed me about the opposite, but appearantly many people looked at it in a completely different way as I did and think Daffy is simply not that good in boxing.

Wlad has proven to be very good at making his size an issue. Some here incorrectly stated that all the Klits have is size - if that were true, then guys like Breazeale and Jameel McCline would be dominant champs. Against Povetkin, Wlad used his size and skills in combination with illegal tactics to make it a one-sided fight. Haye's relative lack of size was certainly a disadvantage against Wlad, but Wlad's athleticism, jab and power were also major factors. Still, Haye did better than most of Wlad's larger opponents in going the distance and winning some rounds.

It was Haye's style that was his downfall against Wlad rather than his size. Haye's ambush, pot shot tactics and low output were comfortable for Wlad, whose achilles heel was always pressure.