Middleweights: Marcel Cerdan vs Sugar Ray Robinson

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 30 May 2007, 10:40

Two complete fighting machines in action. Who wins?

jimglen · Post by **jimglen** » 30 May 2007, 11:28

back and forth with Robinson 'out-pointing' Marcel more times than not in a series of fights.

In Cerdan's victories he 'may' even be able to put Robinson out for a count as he would have been one if not the hardest puncher Ray faced and he was unrelenting, cagey and never a backward step...

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 30 May 2007, 16:55

Robinson wins a decision. This would probably be fairly competitive and exciting.

'Rocket'Rigby · Post by **'Rocket'Rigby** » 31 May 2007, 16:21

Ambling Alp wrote:This would probably be fairly competitive and exciting.

Up until the 4th or 5th round, before Robinson found that extra gear he had to propell him into terrorizing Cerdan and finishing him off before the 9th...

Rocket
______
Molon Labe!

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 31 May 2007, 21:33

Sim take on this....

http://www.boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... highlight=

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 31 May 2007, 23:25

dammit box buzz....it took me 10 minutes to download this and it turns out to be a post of your own...which explains why you recommended it. all i saw was a bunch of numbers, which i didn't bother to interpret, assuming that was even possible.

as for the fight, i've always thought that would have been a good one...with robinson winning but having go all out to do so....when he was middleweight champion and past his prime....before he won the title it wouldn't have been as tough..

..ahhh....someone here said cerdan would be the hardest puncher robinson ever faced. no way....no way at all....

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 01 Jun 2007, 11:34

Jaclem wrote:dammit box buzz....it took me 10 minutes to download this and it turns out to be a post of your own...which explains why you recommended it. all i saw was a bunch of numbers, which i didn't bother to interpret, assuming that was even possible.

as for the fight, i've always thought that would have been a good one...with robinson winning but having go all out to do so....when he was middleweight champion and past his prime....before he won the title it wouldn't have been as tough..

..ahhh....someone here said cerdan would be the hardest puncher robinson ever faced. no way....no way at all....

Ok, I will bite. Who are the fighters that Robinson fought that hit harder than Cerdan?

Alabama_Man · Post by **Alabama_Man** » 02 Jun 2007, 13:52

Marcel's biggest win was against Zale who was shot and a bum himself. SRR would wipe the floor with this guy.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 03 Jun 2007, 02:11

..artie levine hit three times harder than cerdan...so that should count as three right there.......graziano was an over rated puncher, but compare his first two fights with zale with zale and cerdan....and rocky is the harder puncher....more...but now i have to take my doberman out for his late night jaunt....

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 04 Jun 2007, 12:54

artie levine hit three times harder than cerdan... so that should count as three right there.......

Hard to argue with that compelling logic.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 04 Jun 2007, 14:48

.thank you alp....it's always nice to have another intellectual agree with my reasoning..

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 04 Jun 2007, 16:09

That had to be one of the best lines ever on this forum.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 20 Sep 2007, 07:34

Did Levine srop Robinson and did he deserve the decision in their fight?

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 20 Sep 2007, 13:19

.....robinson won because he kayoed levine in the 10th. however, most reports say he got a long count when artie knocked him down. sugar ray said he "reached up to block a punch" (paraphrased) and then found himself on the canvas. i don't know how long the count was..probably no more than a few seconds, but robinson was definitely close to being knocked out. but....he did come back to kayo the bigger and stronger levine.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 21 Sep 2007, 04:21

Jaclem wrote:.....robinson won because he kayoed levine in the 10th. however, most reports say he got a long count when artie knocked him down. sugar ray said he "reached up to block a punch" (paraphrased) and then found himself on the canvas. i don't know how long the count was..probably no more than a few seconds, but robinson was definitely close to being knocked out. but....he did come back to kayo the bigger and stronger levine.

Thanks, I read a anecdote recently by a writer who claimed Levine should have won the fight.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 21 Sep 2007, 16:57

I think the Cerdan that fought LaMotta and Zale probably wouldn't have pulled a victory over Robinson. I only say this because the French swore up and down that Cerdan was already on the downside when he danced circles around Zale for the Middleweight title.

The only knock against Cerdan is, despite his magnificent record, it wasn't chalk full of top ranked contenders, it was mostly fighters of the Euro-level. Had he made a break through to the US earlier, he very well could have defeated more highly regarded men and we would have had a better analysis of him.

But to be honest, I think a Cerdan-Papp or Cerdan-Burley fight would have been more interesting.

theone · Post by **theone** » 23 Sep 2007, 22:51

This is a very good matchup. Robinson said levine hit him the hardest, he should of also said - levine should have a KO over him. Anyways I see ray winning a close fight. Cerdan could fight. MAD - MIKE -

I actually have a taped interview Robinson had with ABC in the 70's where he claims Graziano was either the hardest puncher he ever faced or had hit him the hardest in his career. I'm leaning towards the hardest puncher he ever faced. I'll dig through the crates and try to find the tape.
I do vividly remember him saying that Lamotta' was his toughest opponent and the best fighter he ever faced bar none. I guess he didn't say Armstrong because he was past his prime when they met.

sugarramos · Post by **sugarramos** » 22 Jan 2017, 11:32

tony would go the distance but take a bad beating
tony is a great fighter but in order to beat sugar ray Robinson you need the work rate of Carmen basilio and Jake lammotta or the unorthodox style of randy turpin and gene fulmer and still you will take a lot of punishment of beating ray. tony shuffles toward his opponent then lunges at his opponent with a combination or left hook however sugar ray Robinsons footwork and reflexes would see these attacks coming and he would evade dance backward pumping out his fast jab.
later in the fight ray starts using his great speed to catch Zale with flashy combination that take there tole on Zale.
Zale will keep ray working and put him through a tough fight but when the smoke clears ray wins the fight by UD.

Kalan · Post by **Kalan** » 23 Jan 2017, 06:05

Alabama_Man wrote:Marcel's biggest win was against Zale who was shot and a bum himself. SRR would wipe the floor with this guy.

Zale was a bum because Cerdan stopped him??? How about Ralph Jones who was carrying a 5-fight losing streak into his fight with Robinson... and then beat Robinson with ease??? Cerdan would mop the floor with Fullmer, Basilio, and Turpin -- all of whom beat Robinson.

scartissue · Post by **scartissue** » 23 Jan 2017, 11:01

theone wrote:
This is a very good matchup. Robinson said levine hit him the hardest, he should of also said - levine should have a KO over him. Anyways I see ray winning a close fight. Cerdan could fight. MAD - MIKE -
I actually have a taped interview Robinson had with ABC in the 70's where he claims Graziano was either the hardest puncher he ever faced or had hit him the hardest in his career. I'm leaning towards the hardest puncher he ever faced. I'll dig through the crates and try to find the tape.
I do vividly remember him saying that Lamotta' was his toughest opponent and the best fighter he ever faced bar none. I guess he didn't say Armstrong because he was past his prime when they met.

Theone, you're half-right. I remember the show because I saw it live back in the day. It was called 'The way it was' or something like that, hosted by Curt Gowdy where they brought two athletes in showing a game or a fight with the two rivals present discussing it. I think you recall Rocky because it was Robinson and Rocky discussing their fight. But Gowdy asked Ray who was the hardest puncher he ever faced and Ray said, "Hey Rock, do you remember a guy named Artie Levine? Artie dropped me and when my head cleared I heard the ref say '5'. I thought, what, did he start the count at 5?"

I'm sure the segment is on youtube. Haven't seen it since it aired (I think in '75), but now my interest is piqued.

Chuck1052 · Post by **Chuck1052** » 23 Jan 2017, 13:11

Sugar Ray Robinson probably would win in a bout with Marcel Cerdan by clear margin. But I doubt if Cerdan's management would have their charge face Robinson unless the latter was the world middleweight champion.

- Chuck Johnston

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 25 Jan 2017, 05:48

I think it would have been a very close fight. Both great fighters. Marcel Cerdan had a tremendous body attack. He applied lots of pressure. Sugar Ray was as fast as hell and very strong. He was not a great inside fighter. But he could take a lot of punishment and had a great chin. He hit harder than Cerdan, a good puncher himself. Robinson on points. In a three-fight series, I would not dismiss Cerdan obtaining at least a victory.

Middleweights: Marcel Cerdan vs Sugar Ray Robinson

Middleweights: Marcel Cerdan vs Sugar Ray Robinson

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