littlepug wrote:
jackson didnt need to finish anyone it was uaually over with one punch, dont know what hearns and tyson getting beat has to do with their finishing and as for joshua Please lets wait till he has fought someone who can fight back before we start judging his (limited at the minute) skills
Exactly what I was thinking, you can't guage someones finishing in a defeat.
And for me, how good someone is at "finishing" is how you put someone away once they're hurt. It's difficult to tell with Jackson as he never had anyone to put away as they were often sprawled on the canvas. It's perhaps an unfair judgement, but I don't think one punch knockout artists qualify
Kalan wrote:Julian Jackson was a good finisher... So was Aaron Pryor.. Gennady Golovkin knocked out more title challengers in a row than anyone else... Marciano knocked old Light Heavyweight Archie more down numerous times before stopping him - so he wasn't that fabulous a finisher... Beterbiev is a bigger Light Heavyweight than Rocky was -- and he crushes you with a shot.. If David Haye gets you going he finishes you ruthlessly -- one of the most savage finishers ever.
Archie Moore didn't look like a good finisher in his 3 Ezzard Charles fights. He got stopped and Ezzard didn't... Hearns tried to stop massive underdog Iran Barkley -- and he got stopped... Mike Tyson was knocked out 5 times - often by underdogs... Ruben Olivares is the best finisher on the list, but was stopped by Arguello... However Arguello was overpowered and canned twice by Aaron Pryor.. Anthony Joshua is a great finisher.. Chris Eubank is developing into a brutal and heartless finisher.. Louis's best fight was versus Max Baer. He had pinpoint power for that one.
The list needs rethinking though.
Who goes out and who goes in? Happy to edit based on intelligent suggestions...so Haye and Joshua don't near make it on
littlepug wrote:
jackson didnt need to finish anyone it was uaually over with one punch, dont know what hearns and tyson getting beat has to do with their finishing and as for joshua Please lets wait till he has fought someone who can fight back before we start judging his (limited at the minute) skills
Exactly what I was thinking, you can't guage someones finishing in a defeat.
And for me, how good someone is at "finishing" is how you put someone away once they're hurt. It's difficult to tell with Jackson as he never had anyone to put away as they were often sprawled on the canvas. It's perhaps an unfair judgement, but I don't think one punch knockout artists qualify
One punch artists definitely qualify. The end result is a knock out (finish) so that's what we are looking for.
Haye only had 10 fights when he fought Thompson who had 38 fights... It was a premature matchup... Haye wasn't ever close to being stopped again, but Iron Mike was stopped 5 times...and hit the floor a few times.
Foreman only scored 1 KO in his last 7 fights...fighting guys who weren't any good... George couldn't get Ali and Young out -- and Mike Tyson would ice both very much the way he did Michael Spinks... You saw what Gerry Cooney did to Jimmy Young -- and you saw what Michael Spinks did to Cooney... Even though I know Cooney's career was smoked when he met Spinks -- the younger Spinks bro was still a good boxer ... and undefeated when he met Tyson.
Kalan wrote:Foreman only scored 1 KO in his last 7 fights...fighting guys who weren't any good... George couldn't get Ali and Young out -- and Mike Tyson would ice both very much the way he did Michael Spinks... You saw what Gerry Cooney did to Jimmy Young -- and you saw what Michael Spinks did to Cooney... Even though I know Cooney's career was smoked when he met Spinks -- the younger Spinks bro was still a good boxer ... and undefeated when he met Tyson.
You say George couldn't get Ali out as if Ali was some sort bum.
Ali had a chin from the ages & a heart to match.
Nobody ever KOd Ali; not even when he was ancient & in the early stages of Parkinson's, so it was unlikely that even George Foreman would have taken out a still living Ali.
There were a lot of great finishers. Joe Louis was the best in my opinion.
But I also have to mention Lennox Lewis. I'm not saying he was among top-3 or top-5 finishers of all time, but he was one of the most underrated finishers in my opinion, because of his more cautious style. Even early Lewis was pretty good finisher, as was evident in his fights against Ruddock and Bruno, athough he couldn't finish Tucker and Jackson (for a long time after knocking him down in the first round) because he telegraphed his punches too much. But prime Lewis has become really great finisher. He was less agressive than pre-Steward version, but way more effective. Prime Lewis finished EVERY opponent, whom he hurt, right away or in the the very short period of time - Golota, Briggs, Grant, Botha, Rahman (well, he KO'ed Rahman with one-two, so he didn't need to finish him) and Tyson.
Keko wrote:Kalan, Tyson after 2000 I do not even take into account.
I do.. You take a boxer's whole career into account.. It seems to me that Tyson's 3 losses to Douglas and Holyfield came well before 2000.. I thought Mike was impressive finishing off Alex Stewart, I'll say that.. Stewart wasn't real good and MIke could take a lot of chances.. A year later Foreman couldn't get Stewart out no way.. George took a storm of incoming swings to the head.. Stewart wasn't landing sheet on Mike because he had too many gloves in his face..
But guys who can finish off good boxers are few and far between.. James Toney did a brilliant job on Michael Nunn and nobody else ever got him out of there.
Boxing Writer wrote:There were a lot of great finishers. Joe Louis was the best in my opinion.
But I also have to mention Lennox Lewis. I'm not saying he was among top-3 or top-5 finishers of all time, but he was one of the most underrated finishers in my opinion, because of his more cautious style. Even early Lewis was pretty good finisher, as was evident in his fights against Ruddock and Bruno, athough he couldn't finish Tucker and Jackson (for a long time after knocking him down in the first round) because he telegraphed his punches too much. But prime Lewis has become really great finisher. He was less agressive than pre-Steward version, but way more effective. Prime Lewis finished EVERY opponent, whom he hurt, right away or in the the very short period of time - Golota, Briggs, Grant, Botha, Rahman (well, he KO'ed Rahman with one-two, so he didn't need to finish him) and Tyson.
If you knock a guy dead with a shot... That's a great finish... He wasn't going anywhere and you got him out anyway -- because you hit him real good.
If he gets up and you finish him off that's also a great finish, but not as dramatic... As far as Tyson goes, Lewis softened him up before applying the finish.
Boxing Writer wrote:There were a lot of great finishers. Joe Louis was the best in my opinion.
But I also have to mention Lennox Lewis. I'm not saying he was among top-3 or top-5 finishers of all time, but he was one of the most underrated finishers in my opinion, because of his more cautious style. Even early Lewis was pretty good finisher, as was evident in his fights against Ruddock and Bruno, athough he couldn't finish Tucker and Jackson (for a long time after knocking him down in the first round) because he telegraphed his punches too much. But prime Lewis has become really great finisher. He was less agressive than pre-Steward version, but way more effective. Prime Lewis finished EVERY opponent, whom he hurt, right away or in the the very short period of time - Golota, Briggs, Grant, Botha, Rahman (well, he KO'ed Rahman with one-two, so he didn't need to finish him) and Tyson.
If you knock a guy dead with a shot... That's a great finish... He wasn't going anywhere and you got him out anyway -- because you hit him real good.
If he gets up and you finish him off that's also a great finish, but not as dramatic... As far as Tyson goes, Lewis softened him up before applying the finish.
Again, the definition is subjective, but for me a good "finisher" is someone who gets someone out of there once they're hurt. How you close them down, assess the damage, decision making etc. then get on top of them and close the show
Just being a big puncher and dropping folk with one punch isn't quite the same thing. But then that's just how I define the term
Yes... Zarate at 118 was one of the best finishers.
Is a guy who gets flattened with one shot finished??? ... Pretty much... And if you have an extremely high KO ratio you're also finishing off guys who get up from knockdowns a little shaky, and desperately try to ward off the stoppage... You have to rip through and around gloves, arms, shoulders, and elbows with hooks, uppercuts and body shots, and get them out without expending yourself.. Golovkin is very good at this.
But if you go after the KO too hard you can exhaust yourself.. Sometimes you can get a guy to throw more and harder by telling him he can't punch worth a crap, though it doesn't usually work... Ray Mercer tried this with Tommy Morrison "Keep putting them in there Tommy. I almost felt that one. I think you can do better than that one." And Joey Maxim had a few words for Ray Robinson.. "I can't feel your punches Ray. You're not breaking popcorn."
Kalan wrote:Yes... Zarate at 118 was one of the best finishers.
Is a guy who gets flattened with one shot finished??? ... Pretty much... And if you have an extremely high KO ratio you're also finishing off guys who get up from knockdowns a little shaky, and desperately try to ward off the stoppage... You have to rip through and around gloves, arms, shoulders, and elbows with hooks, uppercuts and body shots, and get them out without expending yourself.. Golovkin is very good at this.
But if you go after the KO too hard you can exhaust yourself.. Sometimes you can get a guy to throw more and harder by telling him he can't punch worth a crap, though it doesn't usually work... Ray Mercer tried this with Tommy Morrison "Keep putting them in there Tommy. I almost felt that one. I think you can do better than that one." And Joey Maxim had a few words for Ray Robinson.. "I can't feel your punches Ray. You're not breaking popcorn."
I see some Wilfredo Gomez, my favorite fighter of all time, in GGG, which may be why I like him so much as well. Both are great at cutting off the ring, good at tempting opponents into an exchange if necessary while being skilled enough to quickly respond, and both having the power and stamina to take opponents out quickly or pound them into submission with a battering ram assortment of punches. Both great finisher, IMO
But I do like the way Salvador Sanchez finished off Gomez... He didn't let him off the hook... Gomez was undefeated in 33 fights and Sanchez wasted him...He didn't grab inside when the shorter Gomez got close -- he stayed right with Gomez on the inside and used his superior inside game and inside defense which he practiced all the time.
Then when Sanchez fought the much taller and rangier Patrick Ford he boxed him from the outside...and beat him good at his own game... He didn't stop Ford but that fight finished the kid as a top prospect.. Ford lost several in a row and he was pretty much done as a boxer after that.. This is why I always say you don't have to get knocked out to get ruined by a much more experienced boxer.. If you lack the fights and rounds to match up with a great fighter don't go there.. Get the fights you need first.
Syntax Error wrote:Mike Tyson - if he had you going, you were gone.
I can only think of Douglas who survived & that was in the 8th when Tyson was tired.
The 10th was when Douglas should have been tired from punching Tyson's face in ... But that's when Buster stepped it up and canned Mike’s ass emphatically.
Hagler wasn't that spectacular a KO guy IMO... He finished the chinny Hearns and that's the one that gives him the reputation.
But Hagler never got the smaller Leonard or Duran going... And he never got old Benny Briscoe, or beaten up Marcos Geraldo going... Geraldo had been knocked out 10 times before... Rodrigo Valdes smashed a young Benny Briscoe out with a tremendous left hook at 1:31 of this video.. Start it about 1:25
