Muhammad Ali vs. Alvin 'Blue' Lewis - 'Last Great Fight'

[Dart340]

You realize you're being complimentary of Ali, right Duce?

I wonder how long it will be before funsobanjo or somebody else accuses you of "lying" in this thread?

[evrenb]

Didn't blue lewis deck Ali in sparring?

[elmersalsa]

Didn't blue lewis deck Ali in sparring?

The Skinny,

Al 'Blue' Lewis, busted Muhammad Ali's ribs in a 1971 sparring session at the 5th Street Gym in
Miami Beach.

Mr. Lewis was then abruptly fired on the spot.

Fighters who turned down bouts with 'Blue' Lewis, in order starting from 1968.
* George Chuvalo
* Joe Frazier
* Jimmy Ellis
* Sonny Liston
* Buster Mathis
* Henry Cooper
* Danny McAlinden
* Floyd Patterson
* Oscar Bonavena {1972 rematch}
* Ken Norton
* Jeff Merritt
* Ron Lyle
* Joe Bugner
* Jerry Quarry
* Jack Bodell
* Jose Luis Garcia
* Ron Stander
* Earnie Shavers

Damn!, he was ducked by everybody!!!

[BoxBuzz]

Paydirt!

It appears that through an honest effort, crystal clear logic, and the power of the typed word, you now have a greater appreciation of the finer subtleties of the sweet science.

My work here is done.

[funso banjo baby]

You realize you're being complimentary of Ali, right Duce?

I wonder how long it will be before funsobanjo or somebody else accuses you of "lying" in this thread?

who are you Dart340 ?

are you in love with me too ?

its funny how many of you miss me so much ?


and why is it always me who gets singled out?

there are lots of other people who think il duce's constant posting of completely pointless ballox is wearing very thin.

[ronnyrains]

BIg 'BLUE' fell into boxing purgatory, he was too good to risk "your spot!" like those List 18, (Just ask the good people of Buenos Aires) and not a big enough name to get those big fights, mostly because no one would fite him , It made no sense to fight "Blue!" Leotis Martin scored two big wins early over Lewis, And lewis did obtain a Top Ten ranking by both THE RING and WBA at separate times during his career, and Knocked out Highly over rated No.2 Eduardo corletti in One in 1968!

[BoxBuzz]

A case of the "Blues"?

[Tomasino]

Oh look, boxbuzz bumped another Douche thread up. What a great guy. Really interesting thread too

[Keko]

Didn't blue lewis deck Ali in sparring?

The Skinny,

Al 'Blue' Lewis, busted Muhammad Ali's ribs in a 1971 sparring session at the 5th Street Gym in
Miami Beach.

Mr. Lewis was then abruptly fired on the spot.

Fighters who turned down bouts with 'Blue' Lewis, in order starting from 1968.
* George Chuvalo
* Joe Frazier
* Jimmy Ellis
* Sonny Liston
* Buster Mathis
* Henry Cooper
* Danny McAlinden
* Floyd Patterson
* Oscar Bonavena {1972 rematch}
* Ken Norton
* Jeff Merritt
* Ron Lyle
* Joe Bugner
* Jerry Quarry
* Jack Bodell
* Jose Luis Garcia
* Ron Stander
* Earnie Shavers

Damn!, he was ducked by everybody!!!

For Ellis, Quarry and Patterson no such data that was. Anyway, it is quite a list.Blue Alvin true warrior.

[BoxBuzz]

Oh look, boxbuzz bumped another Douche thread up. What a great guy. Really interesting thread too

Not to you...you don't even know who Blue is.......and don't pretend you do.

But authors are not the issue here.......Don't fear the Douche.....

in this case the content interested me.

I'd do the same if you tossed something into the record that might be worth chewin' on. Though Kalan might not like it and get after me for it.

Blue was a guy who sort of disgruntled the power brokers.....too good to risk your talent on, too good to ignore.....but not good enough or flashy enough to get his genuine just options.

[klompton]

More BS from Duce and sanctioned by an admin no less...

[BoxBuzz]

More BS from Duce and sanctioned by an admin no less...

odd response.......I wonder what you're referring to.

I don't think Lewis was top shelf, and I don't think that list is accurate.

But I do think that Lewis is an interesting study. Nothing more nothing less.

Perhaps this topic should be locked, and all those who contributed be forced to take the "walk of shame"?

But then.....that would include both of us.

[Caractacus]

who were the sparring partners for Al "Blue" lewis ?
and did he have trouble finding any ?

[BoxBuzz]

Well of course he was a long term sparring partner for Ali. That can't be all bad.


or can it?

[hhascup]

Here what it says in Ali book The Greatest. The day before I'm scheduled to leave for Atlanta, my last day to train for the Quarry fight, I'm in the gym and my sparring partner, Blue Lewis, is pounding my stomach like he would a medicine ball. I've been away from gyms for forty-two months, and Quarry will go for the body. Blue lets me know that a sledge hammer is coming; he telegraphs it, but I can't move.

Once I heard Jersey Joe Walcott and Joe Louis, who could knock down mules, talk of blows that had knocked them down, and Jersey Joe said, "When one comes out of the blue, you can get over it quick. No hangover. But the one you see coming, but still can't get away from, goes down on tape and you play it back at funny times. When you're dreaming. Or just walking down the street."

Now I see a blow like that coming. It starts out for the pit of my stomach, but suddenly curves and crashes into my ribs. The pain is like a terrible toothache shooting through bones, up the spine, up the back of my head. I hang there, my back against the ropes, while he sends telegrams of more to come crushing into my side. Then I slide slowly down the ropes to the canvas. On the way down, out of the corner of my eye, I see some startled faces, wide eyes, the crowd in the gym rushing up to the ring: "Is he hurt?" ... "Is he faking?" ... "Did you see that?"

I stretch out on the canvas and feel Bundini's arms lifting my shoulders, his mouth on my ear. "You sure make it look real, Champ." He is trying to laugh. "You all right?"

He's seen me go through this act a dozen times just to liven up the gym-but now he is not sure what it is. I know what it is.

I remember pulling myself slowly up by the ropes and winking at the crowd. Some of them wink back like they're in on the joke, and laugh. Somehow I finish the workout and even include a round of shadowboxing. Then Angelo pushes the crowd back from the ring and I follow him into the dressing room.

In the crowd is Arthur Burke, a lawyer who's waiting to take me over to Miami to file the deposition in the suit against me-the deposition I put off to test myself in Angelo's gym. Burke's never been around prizefighters before and he tries to follow me into the dressing room, but Angelo pushes everybody out. Only the closest members of the crew can come in. When the door shuts, they huddle around. They were quiet outside because reporters were looking. Now they scream:

"Why'd you do it? Why'd you let a sparring partner hit you like that?"

"My God! Somebody get the doctor!" "If the rib's broke ... "

"It's his way, The Champ's way." Bundini is resigned. "The way he gets in shape. He trains that way."

I see Blue sticking his long head through the door like a horse looking in the barn, as much pain and regret on his face as in my ribs. "I didn't know you weren't ready. You told me throw 'em in hard." . 1 shake my fist at his head. "If you didn't, I'd get another sparring partner."

Blue. I've known him since the Golden Gloves. No ordinary sparring partner, he's one of the hardest hitters, one of a number of little-known fighters who have almost no chance of becoming known because no manager will let a "name" fighter get in the ring with them. Although now and then someone makes a mistake. Like South America's Heavyweight Champion, Oscar Bonavena, will do when he takes Blue for a "soft touch," accepts a fight with him in Buenos Aires, is knocked down three times in four rounds before the referee "disqualifies" Blue-so Oscar can make more money in America.

When Blue leaves I step into the shower stall, but the pain comes down so hard I double over until Angelo steers me to the dressing table. "Doctor's on the way. Lie down, stretch out."

I try to get up, but the pain makes me close my eyes. When I open them, I see Dr. Pacheco bending down, feeling my side.

Chris is shaking his head. "If we postpone, God knows when we'll get this far again. We got to keep it out of the newspapers, too."

"You're making too much out of it," I say.

The doctor straightens up. "We can't tell a thing until we get the x-rays. The papers don't have to know. You don't have to tell them. The Champ's the one that's got to know."

"Quarry'll know before morning," Bundini says.

It's a strange thing about secrets in a fighter's camp. It's easy to keep the press from picking things up, but the spy systems inside camps are another matter. Quarry'll know all about the rib long before we face each other in the ring. In fact, he will tell me he counted on it.

"What's it all about?" Angelo walks around, shaking his head as though some deep supernatural mystery is at work. "The same thing happened before the second Liston fight. You let Jimmy Ellis smash you in the same spot two days before that fight, and we were scared to death. You don't even remember it."

[Kalan]

Didn't blue lewis deck Ali in sparring?

The Skinny,

Al 'Blue' Lewis, busted Muhammad Ali's ribs in a 1971 sparring session at the 5th Street Gym in
Miami Beach.

Mr. Lewis was then abruptly fired on the spot.

Fighters who turned down bouts with 'Blue' Lewis, in order starting from 1968.
* George Chuvalo
* Joe Frazier
* Jimmy Ellis
* Sonny Liston
* Buster Mathis
* Henry Cooper
* Danny McAlinden
* Floyd Patterson
* Oscar Bonavena {1972 rematch}
* Ken Norton
* Jeff Merritt
* Ron Lyle
* Joe Bugner
* Jerry Quarry
* Jack Bodell
* Jose Luis Garcia
* Ron Stander
* Earnie Shavers

Damn!, he was ducked by everybody!!!

Obviously he wasn't ducked by everyone because he had 36 fights - but certain name Heavyweights passed on Blue because he was big, tall, strong, and he could hit. What I remember was his 3 fights with Bob Stallings. He did better with all 3 fights. He was another one like Jeff Merritt, who if he only learned how to box and defend himself better and developed a real jab, would have been good.. Blue had Bonavena out.. If that fight were in the United States he would have won it because it was a chickenshat DQ. Bonavena was a sitting duck for Lewis.

I see repeats of guys like Blue in Heavyweights today---in guys like Dominic Breazeale.. He's very big, tall, strong, and athletic, but probably headed for his 2nd loss. His jab, footwork and defense aren't progressing well.. You have to make progress with every fight. If your skills aren't world class you really have to work overtime to bring them up.. Once you take a couple losses, losing becomes a slippery slope and you never hit the big money.

[klompton]

A lot of people talking a lot of nonsense about a guy they know next to nothing about on a thread started by the biggest liar this forum has ever seen. Blue Lewis wasnt ducked and was mediocre as mediocre gets. So all of these guys ducked him but werent afraid to fight guys who were better and had better records? Lewis can lose to guys like stallings and a shot ohalloran and never notch a single big win but all of these contenders and champs ducked him? Gtfo. How stupid and gullible do you have to be to believe this shit.

As for his knockdown of Ali its on film and like most of Alis knockdowns in sparring it was nothing more than Ali playing for the crowd. Ive got probably half a dozen different films of Ali getting "dropped" in sparring and every single one is him play acting. In this one Ali is laying on the ropes letting Lewis his him in the stomach. All of sudden in very melodramatic fashion he pitches face first on the canvas and then starts rolling around and falling backwards etc. The audience is eating it up. He did that all of the time in sparring and Lewis was not fired afterwards. All of this is just pure nonsense.

As for the Bonavena fight, there has been so much bullshit written about that. Lewis was not ahead, had not dropped bonavena, and the stoppage was only controversial to lewis' manager who was the only guy who complained about it. Bonavena had dropped Lewis and was way ahead on points, which Lewis admitted in the post fight interview. They went into a clinch and when they came out Bonavena had a bad cut that was spurting blood. He was sent to his corner for thr doctor to take a look and was unable to continue the ref ruled that it was a headbutt so lewis was dqd. It was the right call and even if it had been sent to the cards under modern rules Lewis would have lost.

Quit trying to build some journeyman up to something he wasnt on the backs of better fighters reputations.

If you guys actually did some real reading instead of listening to a complete moron who also happens to be a well proven liar and reading a bunch of nonsense written in an Ali book that has now been shown to have been almost totally fictionalized (And not even written by Ali btw) youd go a lot further toward making some sense.

[klompton]

More BS from Duce and sanctioned by an admin no less...

odd response.......I wonder what you're referring to.

I don't think Lewis was top shelf, and I don't think that list is accurate.

But I do think that Lewis is an interesting study. Nothing more nothing less.

Perhaps this topic should be locked, and all those who contributed be forced to take the "walk of shame"?

But then.....that would include both of us.

You trying to be cute ran its course long ago. Everyone here knows youre half an admin and half a troll. The fact that you let il duce spew his bullshit so long before people took it out of your ineffectual hands and sent him packing and that you routinely bump his old threads is enough for me to call you out on further sanctioning his nonsense.

[Tomasino]

Oh look, boxbuzz bumped another Douche thread up. What a great guy. Really interesting thread too

Not to you...you don't even know who Blue is.......and don't pretend you do.

But authors are not the issue here.......Don't fear the Douche.....

in this case the content interested me.

I'd do the same if you tossed something into the record that might be worth chewin' on. Though Kalan might not like it and get after me for it.

Blue was a guy who sort of disgruntled the power brokers.....too good to risk your talent on, too good to ignore.....but not good enough or flashy enough to get his genuine just options.

Yawn, ok doki duce/buzz/kalan, just you mind take your medication

[punchoutsb]

A lot of people talking a lot of nonsense about a guy they know next to nothing about on a thread started by the biggest liar this forum has ever seen. Blue Lewis wasnt ducked and was mediocre as mediocre gets. So all of these guys ducked him but werent afraid to fight guys who were better and had better records? Lewis can lose to guys like stallings and a shot ohalloran and never notch a single big win but all of these contenders and champs ducked him? Gtfo. How stupid and gullible do you have to be to believe this poo.

As for his knockdown of Ali its on film and like most of Alis knockdowns in sparring it was nothing more than Ali playing for the crowd. Ive got probably half a dozen different films of Ali getting "dropped" in sparring and every single one is him play acting. In this one Ali is laying on the ropes letting Lewis his him in the stomach. All of sudden in very melodramatic fashion he pitches face first on the canvas and then starts rolling around and falling backwards etc. The audience is eating it up. He did that all of the time in sparring and Lewis was not fired afterwards. All of this is just pure nonsense.

As for the Bonavena fight, there has been so much bullshit written about that. Lewis was not ahead, had not dropped bonavena, and the stoppage was only controversial to lewis' manager who was the only guy who complained about it. Bonavena had dropped Lewis and was way ahead on points, which Lewis admitted in the post fight interview. They went into a clinch and when they came out Bonavena had a bad cut that was spurting blood. He was sent to his corner for thr doctor to take a look and was unable to continue the ref ruled that it was a headbutt so lewis was dqd. It was the right call and even if it had been sent to the cards under modern rules Lewis would have lost.

Quit trying to build some journeyman up to something he wasnt on the backs of better fighters reputations.

If you guys actually did some real reading instead of listening to a complete moron who also happens to be a well proven liar and reading a bunch of nonsense written in an Ali book that has now been shown to have been almost totally fictionalized (And not even written by Ali btw) youd go a lot further toward making some sense.

[BoxBuzz]

Oh look, boxbuzz bumped another Douche thread up. What a great guy. Really interesting thread too

Not to you...you don't even know who Blue is.......and don't pretend you do.

But authors are not the issue here.......Don't fear the Douche.....

in this case the content interested me.

I'd do the same if you tossed something into the record that might be worth chewin' on. Though Kalan might not like it and get after me for it.

Blue was a guy who sort of disgruntled the power brokers.....too good to risk your talent on, too good to ignore.....but not good enough or flashy enough to get his genuine just options.

Yawn, ok doki duce/buzz/kalan, just you mind take your medication

In this case it happens that I tend to agree with Klompton. I enjoy the give and take.
The IDEA that Lewis might have been perhaps better than he was, may possibly be laid at the doorstep of his career as an ongoing part of the Ali entourage. I'm not overly devoted to that thought....but it does make some sense to me.

And Thumbalina.....please don't let the idea of a few conversations put too much fear up your skirt. Zappa wrote a good song about folks like you...."Who are the brain police"? Seems certain ideas really push your buttons. If you think Duce, buzz and Kalan have a lot in common, that's fine. I'm beginning to have the same thoughts about you and Pee Wee Herman. Just hope I don't have to sit next to you in my next outing to a theatre.

[Tomasino]

Not to you...you don't even know who Blue is.......and don't pretend you do.

But authors are not the issue here.......Don't fear the Douche.....

in this case the content interested me.

I'd do the same if you tossed something into the record that might be worth chewin' on. Though Kalan might not like it and get after me for it.

Blue was a guy who sort of disgruntled the power brokers.....too good to risk your talent on, too good to ignore.....but not good enough or flashy enough to get his genuine just options.

Yawn, ok doki duce/buzz/kalan, just you mind take your medication

In this case it happens that I tend to agree with Klompton. I enjoy the give and take.
The IDEA that Lewis might have been perhaps better than he was, may possibly be laid at the doorstep of his career as an ongoing part of the Ali entourage. I'm not overly devoted to that thought....but it does make some sense to me.

And Thumbalina.....please don't let the idea of a few conversations put too much fear up your skirt. Zappa wrote a good song about folks like you...."Who are the brain police"? Seems certain ideas really push your buttons. If you think Duce, buzz and Kalan have a lot in common, that's fine. I'm beginning to have the same thoughts about you and Pee Wee Herman. Just hope I don't have to sit next to you in my next outing to a theatre.

Don't worry old guy, I don't frequent the porno theatres your so fond of.

Btw, I've had pms from a few regulars who agree with my assessment of you and your personalities

[BoxBuzz]

Ah...you and your fellow wizards hard at work.

Well it's a good bet that this foray into hypotheticals is better than whatever else you likely are doing in your spare time. So don't stop on my account.

Let me know when you've got it fully sorted. Take your time.....convene the covenant early and often.

I think Saad shares your suspicions as well, so perhaps you can share your torches and pitchforks!

[gilgamesh]

This thread seems like it starts off already in the middle of a discussion

[Caractacus]

I thought the video stores killed of the Porno theaters back beginning in the mid-1980's.
I remember one in my hometown called the Chelsea where you would see people in line wearing raincoates
dark sunglasses and red clothes and that was during the afternnoon.
they always had such a sleazy atmosphere in and around them ,
inside you felt like it was some kind of portal ante chamber to the entrance of Hell or something.
If you want to remember what they were like back then check out the movie THE HOWLING
there at the beginning.