What part of these isles are you from?

[davie]

Well we get like 50,000 people here during TT fortnight, population's less than 90,000, bet Britain doesn't get more than half its population descending on it at any one time.


Also that thing's a boat lift not a water wheel

A wheels a wheel.

It's not called the Falkirk boat lift

I watched a program about it being built, pretty cool to be fair.

You know that way, you drove by it every day when it was being built, seen it every day since and can visit it anytime you want, so you are not in the least bit interested or fascinated by it.
Yet people travel from all over to see it

[ALI]

I'm a Fife'r, born and bread on the coast in one of the villages between Kincardine and Dunfermline. I've been living abroad for over 10 years, but as the old saying goes, ye kin tak a fifer oot eh fife, bit ye canny tak fife oot a fifer! I must admit though, it took moving abroad for me to learn how to speak proper English

I was a Pars fan growing up during the glory days of Jim Leishmans reign but i lost all interest in football in my late teens.

I never cared for the sectarian side of the old firm, hate it with a passion, a serious black mark on our society.

[Supremo]

I never cared for the sectarian side of the old firm, hate it with a passion, a serious black mark on our society.

Is it? What problems does it actually cause? People singing songs about each other. Sectarianism is a total myth.

[Tomasino]

I never cared for the sectarian side of the old firm, hate it with a passion, a serious black mark on our society.

Is it? What problems does it actually cause? People singing songs about each other. Sectarianism is a total myth.

Wee Mark Scotts family would argue against you. thats an extreme case but I mind it affected me at the time. I've seen loads of violence and family fall outs over this pish. To say it's a myth is a bit bizarre.

[ALI]

I never cared for the sectarian side of the old firm, hate it with a passion, a serious black mark on our society.

Is it? What problems does it actually cause? People singing songs about each other. Sectarianism is a total myth.

I'm struggling to work out what part of Scotland you could have grown up in that allowed you to form such a nieve opinion?

[Emmseegee]

Definitely no myth although quite often exagerated. It is however very easily avoided by those who want nothing to do with it.

[handsofstone]

I don't even live in West Coast of Scotland but the scheme I live in, Lochee is a big Catholic area,my local is on the high street,its only a wee street but it has about 10 boozers and half of them are Celtic pubs ,the other half are neither,you wouldn't get away with wearing a Rangers top in this end which I find baffling seeing as Rangers and Celtic are based in a city miles away, sectarianism is definitely not a myth, although it is boring as fvck

[davie]

Definitely no myth although quite often exagerated. It is however very easily avoided by those who want nothing to do with it.

Depends where you live and where you work but it can be very difficult to avoid

[dalcumly]

Anywhere in the UK where there is an Irish population you will have the possibility of sectarianism. It doesn't matter if its Lochee in Dundee ( Lochee Harp is a dead giveaway) or Liverpool ,Leeds or Coventry.
At every Rangers game I see buses from Corby, Blackpool and Liverpool. At every Celtic game I see buses from Dublin, Belfast and Dundalk and all parts of the UK. I should perhaps also point out it is not really about religion because almost everyone involved hasn't been inside a church since they were christened.Its pure and simply about a united ireland, and those who oppose it.The traditions of Celtic and Rangers are deep and have existed for over a century. People who this hasn't touched, find it bizarre, even more so when it involves sport.

I've previously reacted in this thread and I did this because Tomasino posted a video clip which showed one half of the old firm to be morons - and the ones shown are morons. I could quite easily have shown other clips of Celtic supporters in similar vein, who were just as moronic. I won't be saying any more on this issue, and I regret perhaps having provoked it when at an attempt at humour by mentioning the Rangers slogan WATP resulted in a tit for tat scenario.

[davie]

Anywhere in the UK where there is an Irish population you will have the possibility of sectarianism. It doesn't matter if its Lochee in Dundee ( Lochee Harp is a dead giveaway) or Liverpool ,Leeds or Coventry.
At every Rangers game I see buses from Corby, Blackpool and Liverpool. At every Celtic game I see buses from Dublin, Belfast and Dundalk and all parts of the UK. I should perhaps also point out it is not really about religion because almost everyone involved hasn't been inside a church since they were christened.Its pure and simply about a united ireland, and those who oppose it.The traditions of Celtic and Rangers are deep and have existed for over a century. People who this hasn't touched, find it bizarre, even more so when it involves sport.

I've previously reacted in this thread and I did this because Tomasino posted a video clip which showed one half of the old firm to be morons - and the ones shown are morons. I could quite easily have shown other clips of Celtic supporters in similar vein, who were just as moronic. I won't be saying any more on this issue, and I regret perhaps having provoked it when at an attempt at humour by mentioning the Rangers slogan WATP resulted in a tit for tat scenario.

Fair play.

What I would say, without trying to provoke further debate, is what frustrates me is Scottish people with no stake in Ireland's unity or otherwise, not only taking an interest, but spewing bile at each other over it.

Equally, as you point out, many slinging sectarian insults at one another over religions they don't even follow, believe or practice

[Supremo]

I never cared for the sectarian side of the old firm, hate it with a passion, a serious black mark on our society.

Is it? What problems does it actually cause? People singing songs about each other. Sectarianism is a total myth.

I'm struggling to work out what part of Scotland you could have grown up in that allowed you to form such a nieve opinion?

I stay in a place that would be regarded as one of the most sectarian/Orange towns in Scotland. It's a myth.
Mixed marriages are the norm, sectarian killings are generally non existent, there are no large employers that routinely adopt discriminatory recruitment practices(apart from the catholic education system) - it's all hype.
What it comes down to is folk blowing off a bit of steam at the fitba singing nasty songs about each other- load of pish. An easy target for politicians to grandstand and pontificate about to show the world how righteous they are.

[Supremo]

Anywhere in the UK where there is an Irish population you will have the possibility of sectarianism. It doesn't matter if its Lochee in Dundee ( Lochee Harp is a dead giveaway) or Liverpool ,Leeds or Coventry.
At every Rangers game I see buses from Corby, Blackpool and Liverpool. At every Celtic game I see buses from Dublin, Belfast and Dundalk and all parts of the UK. I should perhaps also point out it is not really about religion because almost everyone involved hasn't been inside a church since they were christened.Its pure and simply about a united ireland, and those who oppose it.The traditions of Celtic and Rangers are deep and have existed for over a century. People who this hasn't touched, find it bizarre, even more so when it involves sport.

I've previously reacted in this thread and I did this because Tomasino posted a video clip which showed one half of the old firm to be morons - and the ones shown are morons. I could quite easily have shown other clips of Celtic supporters in similar vein, who were just as moronic. I won't be saying any more on this issue, and I regret perhaps having provoked it when at an attempt at humour by mentioning the Rangers slogan WATP resulted in a tit for tat scenario.

Fair play.

What I would say, without trying to provoke further debate, is what frustrates me is Scottish people with no stake in Ireland's unity or otherwise, not only taking an interest, but spewing bile at each other over it.

Equally, as you point out, many slinging sectarian insults at one another over religions they don't even follow, believe or practice

There has been mass migration back and forwards between Scotland and Ireland and Scotland and Ulster for centuries.
Large proportions of Scottish people's family histories are strongly linked to Ireland/Ulster so of course they're going to have an interest in its goings on.

[davie]

what frustrates me is Scottish people with no stake in Ireland's unity or otherwise,

There has been mass migration back and forwards between Scotland and Ireland and Scotland and Ulster for centuries.
Large proportions of Scottish people's family histories are strongly linked to Ireland/Ulster so of course they're going to have an interest in its goings on.

Yes there has been, which therefore disqualifies those people from my statement above. I'm talking about people with absolutely no reason to care about the troubles of Ireland, of which there are many.
Not everyone is Scotland has a link, I personally have experienced many who have voluntarily stuck their noses in to this debate with absolutely no connection to it other than the football team they support.

But even then.... "My great granny came over from Ireland/ulster" isn't why many of them apparently give a hoot, it's just a reason to hate a group of people, just like the supposed religious divide they allow to separate them, religions in which few of them actually believe

[Tomasino]

Anywhere in the UK where there is an Irish population you will have the possibility of sectarianism. It doesn't matter if its Lochee in Dundee ( Lochee Harp is a dead giveaway) or Liverpool ,Leeds or Coventry.
At every Rangers game I see buses from Corby, Blackpool and Liverpool. At every Celtic game I see buses from Dublin, Belfast and Dundalk and all parts of the UK. I should perhaps also point out it is not really about religion because almost everyone involved hasn't been inside a church since they were christened.Its pure and simply about a united ireland, and those who oppose it.The traditions of Celtic and Rangers are deep and have existed for over a century. People who this hasn't touched, find it bizarre, even more so when it involves sport.

I've previously reacted in this thread and I did this because Tomasino posted a video clip which showed one half of the old firm to be morons - and the ones shown are morons. I could quite easily have shown other clips of Celtic supporters in similar vein, who were just as moronic. I won't be saying any more on this issue, and I regret perhaps having provoked it when at an attempt at humour by mentioning the Rangers slogan WATP resulted in a tit for tat scenario.

Tomasino has never posted a video clip on any subject, never mind this waste of time... I'm not one side or the other, I find all bigots to be utterly pathetic. I've already stated that I've no knowledge of Scottish football past my school days in the 90s because I removed myself from the bigotry

I simply asked you what WATP meant. You were unable to form a coherent response.

[Supremo]

what frustrates me is Scottish people with no stake in Ireland's unity or otherwise,

There has been mass migration back and forwards between Scotland and Ireland and Scotland and Ulster for centuries.
Large proportions of Scottish people's family histories are strongly linked to Ireland/Ulster so of course they're going to have an interest in its goings on.

Yes there has been, which therefore disqualifies those people from my statement above. I'm talking about people with absolutely no reason to care about the troubles of Ireland, of which there are many.
Not everyone is Scotland has a link, I personally have experienced many who have voluntarily stuck their noses in to this debate with absolutely no connection to it other than the football team they support.

But even then.... "My great granny came over from Ireland/ulster" isn't why many of them apparently give a hoot, it's just a reason to hate a group of people, just like the supposed religious divide they allow to separate them, religions in which few of them actually believe

Northern Irealand is part of our country. Everyone has a right to concern themselves with the affairs of fellow UK nation. The vast vast majority of those who are Catholics in Scotland have Irish ancestry.

[davie]

There has been mass migration back and forwards between Scotland and Ireland and Scotland and Ulster for centuries.
Large proportions of Scottish people's family histories are strongly linked to Ireland/Ulster so of course they're going to have an interest in its goings on.

Yes there has been, which therefore disqualifies those people from my statement above. I'm talking about people with absolutely no reason to care about the troubles of Ireland, of which there are many.
Not everyone is Scotland has a link, I personally have experienced many who have voluntarily stuck their noses in to this debate with absolutely no connection to it other than the football team they support.

But even then.... "My great granny came over from Ireland/ulster" isn't why many of them apparently give a hoot, it's just a reason to hate a group of people, just like the supposed religious divide they allow to separate them, religions in which few of them actually believe

Northern Irealand is part of our country. Everyone has a right to concern themselves with the affairs of fellow UK nation. The vast vast majority of those who are Catholics in Scotland have Irish ancestry.

There's concerning yourself with an issue, then there's concerning yourself with an issue.

Scottish people hating/abusing/attacking other Scottish people who happen to disagree with them on Irish politics is fornicating stupid.
Singing songs glorifying terrorism, celebrating them. Folk going on marches, flying banners and flags, people with tattoos about this shit. It's mental and unjustifiable. That's not just having an interest or an opinion

My name is McKenzie, (McK not Mac) I quite possibly have Irish ancestry on my fathers side. My mother was from a catholic family, good chance there's some on her side too.
I have an interest in what happen in Ireland but not enough to hold a strong opinion let alone hate another human being who happens to disagree with what I might think (not that I hold a view that either side could disagree with)
And I can assure you, my ancestry would have absolutely zero bearing on any opinion I might hold, none what so ever

[dalcumly]

Tomasino

I apologise , it was Daretbg who posted the clip, and you responded that you'd like to execute those involved.

[Supremo]

Yes there has been, which therefore disqualifies those people from my statement above. I'm talking about people with absolutely no reason to care about the troubles of Ireland, of which there are many.
Not everyone is Scotland has a link, I personally have experienced many who have voluntarily stuck their noses in to this debate with absolutely no connection to it other than the football team they support.

But even then.... "My great granny came over from Ireland/ulster" isn't why many of them apparently give a hoot, it's just a reason to hate a group of people, just like the supposed religious divide they allow to separate them, religions in which few of them actually believe

Northern Irealand is part of our country. Everyone has a right to concern themselves with the affairs of fellow UK nation. The vast vast majority of those who are Catholics in Scotland have Irish ancestry.

There's concerning yourself with an issue, then there's concerning yourself with an issue.

Scottish people hating/abusing/attacking other Scottish people who happen to disagree with them on Irish politics is effing stupid.
Singing songs glorifying terrorism, celebrating them. Folk going on marches, flying banners and flags, people with tattoos about this poo. It's mental and unjustifiable. That's not just having an interest or an opinion

My name is McKenzie, (McK not Mac) I quite possibly have Irish ancestry on my fathers side. My mother was from a catholic family, good chance there's some on her side too.
I have an interest in what happen in Ireland but not enough to hold a strong opinion let alone hate another human being who happens to disagree with what I might think (not that I hold a view that either side could disagree with)
And I can assure you, my ancestry would have absolutely zero bearing on any opinion I might hold, none what so ever

Unjustifiable?? Who the fornicate are you tell anyone what causes or beliefs they can march in protest at or support?

[davie]

Northern Irealand is part of our country. Everyone has a right to concern themselves with the affairs of fellow UK nation. The vast vast majority of those who are Catholics in Scotland have Irish ancestry.

There's concerning yourself with an issue, then there's concerning yourself with an issue.

Scottish people hating/abusing/attacking other Scottish people who happen to disagree with them on Irish politics is effing stupid.
Singing songs glorifying terrorism, celebrating them. Folk going on marches, flying banners and flags, people with tattoos about this poo. It's mental and unjustifiable. That's not just having an interest or an opinion

My name is McKenzie, (McK not Mac) I quite possibly have Irish ancestry on my fathers side. My mother was from a catholic family, good chance there's some on her side too.
I have an interest in what happen in Ireland but not enough to hold a strong opinion let alone hate another human being who happens to disagree with what I might think (not that I hold a view that either side could disagree with)
And I can assure you, my ancestry would have absolutely zero bearing on any opinion I might hold, none what so ever

Unjustifiable?? Who the eff are you tell anyone what causes or beliefs they can march in protest at or support?

I didn't tell anyone what they can cannot support or what they can or cannot march about,
I said it's mental and unjustifiable. In my opinion that is exactly what it is.

My experience of these type of people, on either side of the divide, is that they have chosen to involve themselves in it because, a) they have been indoctrinated in it by their family/surroundings, b) the team they support.

There is very little justifiable reason for the legacy of bile that has plagued this country for decades, all based around the troubles of another country.
Christ, people never got themselves as hot and bothered about their own country's independence referendum as they did about the same issue across the Irish sea

[Cholo_cws]

Born in west Lothian, now in the South of England

Similar-ish. Born in East Lothian. Live in Kent.

I see myself as British first and foremost. I've got English parents and I left Scotland when I was four but in sporting matters I chose to support the country of my birth - from around the time Dalglish put one through Clemence's legs at Hampden.

[ALI]

Is it? What problems does it actually cause? People singing songs about each other. Sectarianism is a total myth.

I'm struggling to work out what part of Scotland you could have grown up in that allowed you to form such a nieve opinion?

I stay in a place that would be regarded as one of the most sectarian/Orange towns in Scotland. It's a myth.
Mixed marriages are the norm, sectarian killings are generally non existent, there are no large employers that routinely adopt discriminatory recruitment practices(apart from the catholic education system) - it's all hype.
What it comes down to is folk blowing off a bit of steam at the fitba singing nasty songs about each other- load of pish. An easy target for politicians to grandstand and pontificate about to show the world how righteous they are.

Letting of steam at the fitba???? I dont care where you live, you are talkin sh*t mate. I know plenty of Protestants and Catholics that eat, sleep and breath it, that literally hate the opposite team/religion with a passion. To call it a myth you are either on the wind up, or, just plain nieve.

[Emmseegee]

Personally for me I find the marches/walks to be one of my biggest pet hates. Id ban them, both sides. Either ban them or put them into arenas such as The SECC and let people pay in to watch.

Its ridiculous that these things are still allowed to plague or streets.

People have the right to march, protest and freedom of speech etc but these are pointless, outdated and have no place in society if you ask me.

[Supremo]

How is hating a fitba team sectarianism? It's just footballing rivalry. It is built up to be some big societal issue yet the only issue folk seem to mention is football. We had a summit because McCoist and Lennon squared up to each other- FFS what an over reaction.

[Supremo]

Personally for me I find the marches/walks to be one of my biggest pet hates. Id ban them, both sides. Either ban them or put them into arenas such as The SECC and let people pay in to watch.

Its ridiculous that these things are still allowed to plague or streets.

People have the right to march, protest and freedom of speech etc but these are pointless, outdated and have no place in society if you ask me.

the battle of the Boyne had a huge influence of the development of the country. If it hadn't have been won the country would have taken a completely different course of events- that's worth celebrating.

Do you also object to those who march in bannockburn to celebrate the anniversary of that battle?

One Scotland, many cultures.....unless you're an Orangeman.

[Emmseegee]

Unless you are an orangeman? Missing the part where I said Id ban both sides of it? Also said it could be held in arenas etc instead of on the streets.

Id rather see them discuss it in schools and educate people with books etc instead of walking around streets banging drums at 9am on saturday mornings. There are many great historic events that dont seem to need regular public displays in an attempt to remain relevant.

If any of these walks had any meaning to me or were close to my heart id rather see it being controlled better instead of having football fans following it around as an excuse for a drinking session. Theres no doubt that its only the minority that tarnish these events but I will never change my opinion that they are outdated.