Did Zora Folley take a fall?

[davie]

Just watched Ali vs Folley and the stoppage looked slightly suspicious.

He goes down in the 4th, lands flat on his face and lays unmoving for a few seconds, then starts to spring up, looks to his corner for some reason, the gets up at 9.
For a man seemingly unconscious he got up on solid legs and flew at Ali.
Then in the 7th he goes down, again not to a huge blow, lays unmoving again the springs up and flails about and gets counted out
Unusual behaviour, we've seen enough guys out cold to know how it looks when someones out.

Did anyone else think it was suspicious, he never seemed to get tagged hard either time

[evrenb]

Just watched Ali vs Folley and the stoppage looked slightly suspicious.

He goes down in the 4th, lands flat on his face and lays unmoving for a few seconds, then starts to spring up, looks to his corner for some reason, the gets up at 9.
For a man seemingly unconscious he got up on solid legs and flew at Ali.
Then in the 7th he goes down, again not to a huge blow, lays unmoving again the springs up and flails about and gets counted out
Unusual behaviour, we've seen enough guys out cold to know how it looks when someones out.

Did anyone else think it was suspicious, he never seemed to get tagged hard either time

Definitely nothing suspicious...I have seen him behave like that before. A strange quirk...but definitely nothing dodgy...

[BoxBuzz]

That sort of debilitating kd is not terribly uncommon......except of course if Liston falls and gets up fast.
Then it's a conspiracy cuz Liston could not be buzzed.

So maybe the Foley thing was under the same scam?


Zora Sold me a Chevy Van from Lou Grubb Chevrolet in Phoenix AZ......

He liked to to talk boxing (especially to a paying customer) hes said Ali caught him a couple of times out of nowhere and it absolutely dimmed his lights...and what you saw was what he got. Zora was a honorable a man as you could ever meet. He tried to shake it off. According to him it was pretty instinctive to pop back up as soon as possible if there's any thing left tickin'.

But he felt he was pretty fully compromised at that moment.

[Kalan]

Just watched Ali vs Folley and the stoppage looked slightly suspicious.

He goes down in the 4th, lands flat on his face and lays unmoving for a few seconds, then starts to spring up, looks to his corner for some reason, the gets up at 9.
For a man seemingly unconscious he got up on solid legs and flew at Ali.
Then in the 7th he goes down, again not to a huge blow, lays unmoving again the springs up and flails about and gets counted out
Unusual behaviour, we've seen enough guys out cold to know how it looks when someones out.

Did anyone else think it was suspicious, he never seemed to get tagged hard either time

Folley had a glass chin... Light Heavyweight Doug Jones, Aljandro Lavorente, and Sonny Liston all knocked him cold easier than Ali did it. I watched the fight live because it was on network television for free. It wasn't a big fight and Folley wasn't given a good chance. I remember the Folley-Bonavena fight. Bonavena looked like a clumsy lout trying to hit Folley. He got beaten as easy as Jimmy Ellis beat him.

The funniest thing I've ever seen was Bonavena when he was miles ahead of the inept Karl Mildenberger. He danced around doing his Ali routine ... and looked like a pregnant elephant doing an imitation of a ballerina.

[Ambling Alp II]

Well it was the heavyweight championship of the world when there was only one champion. The challenger was the number one contender. So I am going out on a limb and say it was a big fight.
And no, Folley didn't take a dive.

[davie]

seems fair enough guys, it just looked unusual to me

[evrenb]

seems fair enough guys, it just looked unusual to me

I agree it looks unusual...especially the part when he is on the canvas and comically lays his head on the canvas...like he was pretending...it is an odd reaction.

[BoxBuzz]

Just watched Ali vs Folley and the stoppage looked slightly suspicious.

He goes down in the 4th, lands flat on his face and lays unmoving for a few seconds, then starts to spring up, looks to his corner for some reason, the gets up at 9.
For a man seemingly unconscious he got up on solid legs and flew at Ali.
Then in the 7th he goes down, again not to a huge blow, lays unmoving again the springs up and flails about and gets counted out
Unusual behaviour, we've seen enough guys out cold to know how it looks when someones out.

Did anyone else think it was suspicious, he never seemed to get tagged hard either time

Folley had a glass chin... Light Heavyweight Doug Jones, Aljandro Lavorente, and Sonny Liston all knocked him cold easier than Ali did it. I watched the fight live because it was on network television for free. It wasn't a big fight and Folley wasn't given a good chance. I remember the Folley-Bonavena fight. Bonavena looked like a clumsy lout trying to hit Folley. He got beaten as easy as Jimmy Ellis beat him.

The funniest thing I've ever seen was Bonavena when he was miles ahead of the inept Karl Mildenberger. He danced around doing his Ali routine ... and looked like a pregnant elephant doing an imitation of a ballerina.

Kalan. What do you mean by the highlighted statement? Did you disagree with the outcome of the second Folley Bonavena fight? It was very close.

I assume you are talking about their first encounter.

[dalcumly]

I have great respect for Folley, and indeed, Eddie Machen. The Folley who took on Ali was a shell of his former self and for him it was a good pay day. Folley put up no resistance and went down easily when he felt he'd done enough to justify the bout. Folley from 1960, when he knocked out Henry Cooper with a vicious overhand right would have given Ali a tough fight.
Eddie Machen was very similar.
I think they both died in similar circumstances in the early 1970's, and I thought at the time that the facts revealed, gave me cause for concern. I wonder how fully both deaths were investigated??

[Kalan]

Just watched Ali vs Folley and the stoppage looked slightly suspicious.

He goes down in the 4th, lands flat on his face and lays unmoving for a few seconds, then starts to spring up, looks to his corner for some reason, the gets up at 9.
For a man seemingly unconscious he got up on solid legs and flew at Ali.
Then in the 7th he goes down, again not to a huge blow, lays unmoving again the springs up and flails about and gets counted out
Unusual behaviour, we've seen enough guys out cold to know how it looks when someones out.

Did anyone else think it was suspicious, he never seemed to get tagged hard either time

Folley had a glass chin... Light Heavyweight Doug Jones, Aljandro Lavorente, and Sonny Liston all knocked him cold easier than Ali did it. I watched the fight live because it was on network television for free. It wasn't a big fight and Folley wasn't given a good chance. I remember the Folley-Bonavena fight. Bonavena looked like a clumsy lout trying to hit Folley. He got beaten as easy as Jimmy Ellis beat him.

The funniest thing I've ever seen was Bonavena when he was miles ahead of the inept Karl Mildenberger. He danced around doing his Ali routine ... and looked like a pregnant elephant doing an imitation of a ballerina.

Kalan. What do you mean by the highlighted statement? Did you disagree with the outcome of the second Folley Bonavena fight? It was very close.

I assume you are talking about their first encounter.

Their 1st encounter ya ninny... Because their 2nd encounter ended with Folley having won exactly 2 of his last 7 fights... Ya dig?? One loss was to Brian London, so you know that Folley was beyond washed up... But in his day Zora beat Bonavena as easily as Jimmy Ellis beat him.

[klompton]

Folley had a glass chin... Light Heavyweight Doug Jones, Aljandro Lavorente, and Sonny Liston all knocked him cold easier than Ali did it. I watched the fight live because it was on network television for free. It wasn't a big fight and Folley wasn't given a good chance. I remember the Folley-Bonavena fight. Bonavena looked like a clumsy lout trying to hit Folley. He got beaten as easy as Jimmy Ellis beat him.

The funniest thing I've ever seen was Bonavena when he was miles ahead of the inept Karl Mildenberger. He danced around doing his Ali routine ... and looked like a pregnant elephant doing an imitation of a ballerina.

Kalan. What do you mean by the highlighted statement? Did you disagree with the outcome of the second Folley Bonavena fight? It was very close.

I assume you are talking about their first encounter.

Their 1st encounter ya ninny... Because their 2nd encounter ended with Folley having won exactly 2 of his last 7 fights... Ya dig?? One loss was to Brian London, so you know that Folley was beyond washed up... But in his day Zora beat Bonavena as easily as Jimmy Ellis beat him.

It was only Bonavenas 9th fight, it was Folleys 80th. So the first fight Bonavena was very very green and the second Folley was very shot. If they meet in their primes im not sure Folley beats Bonavena. Folley had a lazy defensive style and Bonavena was big, strong, aggressive, and awkward. That wouldnt play well into Folleys style.

[BoxBuzz]

Folley had a glass chin... Light Heavyweight Doug Jones, Aljandro Lavorente, and Sonny Liston all knocked him cold easier than Ali did it. I watched the fight live because it was on network television for free. It wasn't a big fight and Folley wasn't given a good chance. I remember the Folley-Bonavena fight. Bonavena looked like a clumsy lout trying to hit Folley. He got beaten as easy as Jimmy Ellis beat him.

The funniest thing I've ever seen was Bonavena when he was miles ahead of the inept Karl Mildenberger. He danced around doing his Ali routine ... and looked like a pregnant elephant doing an imitation of a ballerina.

Kalan. What do you mean by the highlighted statement? Did you disagree with the outcome of the second Folley Bonavena fight? It was very close.

I assume you are talking about their first encounter.

Their 1st encounter ya ninny... Because their 2nd encounter ended with Folley having won exactly 2 of his last 7 fights... Ya dig?? One loss was to Brian London, so you know that Folley was beyond washed up... But in his day Zora beat Bonavena as easily as Jimmy Ellis beat him.

Hey you called me a name.....I'm sure there are several people here who suspect I'm not a ninny. So I won't take offense. But man that's a pretty sloppy observation about someone as succinct as myself.

This can only serve to call your judgment further into question.

I do believe that the second encounter ended up a split decision. So he appeared to be ALMOST up to the challenge.
Now.....do these words appear to be the words of a ninny? I suggest you walk that back a bit, or I'm going to have my feelings hurt.
and then how will you feel?

[Caractacus]

Their 1st encounter ya ninny... Because their 2nd encounter ended with Folley having won exactly 2 of his last 7 fights... Ya dig??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTUrWYv2vtU

[Kalan]

Kalan. What do you mean by the highlighted statement? Did you disagree with the outcome of the second Folley Bonavena fight? It was very close.

I assume you are talking about their first encounter.

Their 1st encounter ya ninny... Because their 2nd encounter ended with Folley having won exactly 2 of his last 7 fights... Ya dig?? One loss was to Brian London, so you know that Folley was beyond washed up... But in his day Zora beat Bonavena as easily as Jimmy Ellis beat him.

Hey you called me a name.....I'm sure there are several people here who suspect I'm not a ninny. So I won't take offense. But man that's a pretty sloppy observation about someone as succinct as myself.

This can only serve to call your judgment further into question.

I do believe that the second encounter ended up a split decision. So he appeared to be ALMOST up to the challenge.
Now.....do these words appear to be the words of a ninny? I suggest you walk that back a bit, or I'm going to have my feelings hurt.
and then how will you feel?

Is this like automatic writing Buzz??? You just start moving your fingers and whatever comes out you stick up as a post, no matter how vapid?

[Sidney Carton]

Well it was the heavyweight championship of the world when there was only one champion. The challenger was the number one contender. So I am going out on a limb and say it was a big fight.
And no, Folley didn't take a dive.

Folley was a good ten years past his best when he fought Ali.

[Kalan]

This is true... And Ali was also to big, tall, and strong for Folley, just like Sonny Liston was... Before Alejandro Lavorante was knocked out and killed by John Riggins, a very green Lavorante knocked a prime Zora Folley out... Riggins's win over Lavorante was his 3rd win in his previous 10 fights... Riggins was knocked out in his next 2 fights and quit the ring.

[Ambling Alp II]

Well it was the heavyweight championship of the world when there was only one champion. The challenger was the number one contender. So I am going out on a limb and say it was a big fight.
And no, Folley didn't take a dive.

Folley was a good ten years past his best when he fought Ali.

A good ten years? He was a little past it but he had looked good in last several fights leading up the fight.

[klompton]

Ten yrs??? Uh no.

[BoxBuzz]

Their 1st encounter ya ninny... Because their 2nd encounter ended with Folley having won exactly 2 of his last 7 fights... Ya dig?? One loss was to Brian London, so you know that Folley was beyond washed up... But in his day Zora beat Bonavena as easily as Jimmy Ellis beat him.

Hey you called me a name.....I'm sure there are several people here who suspect I'm not a ninny. So I won't take offense. But man that's a pretty sloppy observation about someone as succinct as myself.

This can only serve to call your judgment further into question.

I do believe that the second encounter ended up a split decision. So he appeared to be ALMOST up to the challenge.
Now.....do these words appear to be the words of a ninny? I suggest you walk that back a bit, or I'm going to have my feelings hurt.
and then how will you feel?

Is this like automatic writing Buzz??? You just start moving your fingers and whatever comes out you stick up as a post, no matter how vapid?

Why yes, it's Stream of consciousness for those of us with the gift. It comes easy for some of us............huh hmmm

Hey wait....that was a criticism wasn't it........? Damn...snuck it right past me you did!

Finding fault in others is the first baby steps toward mature inner reflection. You are recognizing another's (in this case my) weaknesses, and foibles,.... not a bad thing, .....in another decade or so you will be able to think about how such shortcomings apply to humanity in general, and then...even to yourself. You are approaching some exciting times in your life. And we will watch with pride as you inevitably become the very best person you can be.

[BoxBuzz]

So let's get back to the topic of boxing. You seemed to disagree vehemently with the split decision that you mentioned. The one I questioned you about.
Comment on that, it'll get your mind off of squirrels and such.

[Kalan]

It was a Majority Decision BuzzBox.. You realize you're the only person here I had to write that out for??? Bonavena won. As I said Folley won 2 of his last 7 fights at that point and he was done -- but he easily beat Bonavena in their first fight carrying 13 extra pounds around his waist.. I don't know why I bother... It's not a big item, therefore one you could possibly understand, before you traipse off into the moonbeams.

[BoxBuzz]

It was a Majority Decision BuzzBox.. You realize you're the only person here I had to write that out for??? Bonavena won. As I said Folley won 2 of his last 7 fights at that point and he was done -- but he easily beat Bonavena in their first fight carrying 13 extra pounds around his waist.. I don't know why I bother... It's not a big item, therefore one you could possibly understand, before you traipse off into the moonbeams.

Well that does begin to make sense at this point.....
Hey....is that a condescending attitude I sense? Just cuz I need a little clarification sometimes? Man that's cold. You gotta work on some redeeming qualities.

[klompton]

And again, in beating Bonavena the first time around he was beating a guy he literally had 10 times as much pro fight experience. Bonavena was as green as it gets the first time they fought and Folley was shot the second time they fought. Drawing any conclusions about how they would have compared prime for prime, or who was better, based on those two fights is ridiculous.

[Kalan]

Yes...Bonavena took the Folley fight a very early, and way before he was ready.. but he looked good beating Tom McNeeley and Dick Wipperman in his 6th and 7th fights - so his backers got greedy. They knew Folley was way fat and way out of shape - and that Folley had no prayer of getting ready in time for fight night.. What they forgot, or didn't know, was when there's that kind of disparity in experience, you don't need to be in shape to fight--- because there's no way a boxer as green as Bonavena could put enough pressure on Folley to gas him out, even if the fight were 15 rounds.

Alejandro Lavorante only had 13 fights when he was matched with Folley -- and he knocked the chinny Folley out.. That was another factor that fooled them.

[Tuff Customer]

As you know, both Foley and Bonavena went down at the hands of what you have called the feather fisted Ali.
Along with some other pretty delicate flowers along the way. Listonx2,Frazier,Pattersonx2,Cooperx2,Banks,Lewis,Besmanoff,Foreman,Foster,
That's some pretty impressive feather dusting.
Some folks are pretty hard to impress.