Hatton v Witter - May 2006

lirva33 · Post by **lirva33** » 12 Mar 2006, 15:09

states wrote:The whole saga is beginning to resemble Vitali calling out the retired Lewis: One undoubtably talented fighter needing a guy who has no need whatsoever of him, because the other guy has, for right or wrong, overshadowed his entire career.

Not at all.

Witter is number one WBC and rated all across the board. He WILL get his shot. he doesn't "NEED" Hatton as much as you imply. Hatton should have fought Witter and there is no question that it is down to him the fight not happening. If Eubank went through his career never fighting the best available in britain (Been, Watson etc) how would people view that? Because that's what I think of Hatton. A scumbag who has robbed his fans and the public for 40 fights of bums when he should have stepped up years ago. I would love to see him take a good hiding in the ring.

lirva33 · Post by **lirva33** » 12 Mar 2006, 15:10

states wrote:The point is not that I think they would have won, because I don't.

neither do I and neither does anyone who knows a thing of two about boxing.

If you reread my original post now you might understand it better.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 12 Mar 2006, 15:14

Lirva did you used to goto Parks?

states · Post by **states** » 12 Mar 2006, 15:15

You really are a fornicating tool. I understood perfectly what you meant, but in one sentence you imply that Hatton isn't the man because he hasn't beaten everyone, which is fair enough. But you then give two examples who you thought were 'The Man' who didn't beat everyone. How fornicating stupid are you?

How about I say that I think Hatton would beat everyone? (I don't, for the record) Can I call him the Man now?

lirva33 · Post by **lirva33** » 12 Mar 2006, 15:22

states wrote:You really are a fornicating tool. I understood perfectly what you meant, but in one sentence you imply that Hatton isn't the man because he hasn't beaten everyone, which is fair enough. But you then give two examples who you thought were 'The Man' who didn't beat everyone. How fornicating stupid are you?

How about I say that I think Hatton would beat everyone? (I don't, for the record) Can I call him the Man now?

You clearly don't understand my point still.

Hatton isn't the man. DO YOU think he would beat Cotto and PBF? No. Do the majority of boxing fans think he would beat cotto and PBF? NO!

Do you think Vitali would beat the poor contenders? YES. Is it an idea widely held? YES. So that makes Vitali the man.

Do you think Roy would have beaten shitski? YES. Is it an idea widely held? Yes. That makes Roy the man.

(notice 2 yeses on one no, making the first statement the odd one out. Also notice that the difference between a vitali vs ruiz/roy vs shitski match and a hattonpbf/cotto match)

It is clearly very very probably that Vitali and Roy would have beaten them. Therefore they are clearly seen as the best. Not because I think it or YOU think it but because a THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WHO KNOW BOXING THINK IT.

jomothepure · Post by **jomothepure** » 12 Mar 2006, 15:29

lirva33 wrote: Do the majority of boxing fans think he would beat cotto and PBF? NO!

http://www.boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... ight=cotto

states · Post by **states** » 12 Mar 2006, 15:30

I understand your point. But once again, your logic is totally fucked. You originally said achievement mattered, but when it suits you, opinion is what matters. Why don't you just save us all the trouble of reading your tiresome posts and simply type 'I fornicating hate Hatton'? I'd respect that more than your repeated efforts to discredit everything he's ever done.

lirva33 · Post by **lirva33** » 12 Mar 2006, 15:31

jomothepure wrote:
lirva33 wrote: Do the majority of boxing fans think he would beat cotto and PBF? NO!
http://www.boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... ight=cotto

Look, we both know the difference between a Cotto vs Hatton match or a Vitali vs Ruiz match so lets end this ridiculous discussion.

Hatton dicksuckers have reached a new low on this board.

jomothepure · Post by **jomothepure** » 12 Mar 2006, 16:09

lirva33 wrote:
jomothepure wrote:
lirva33 wrote: Do the majority of boxing fans think he would beat cotto and PBF? NO!
http://www.boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... ight=cotto
Look, we both know the difference between a Cotto vs Hatton match or a Vitali vs Ruiz match so lets end this ridiculous discussion.

Hatton dicksuckers have reached a new low on this board.

I am merely suggesting, my little ill-fated betting chum, that your hypothesis that the majority of boxing fans think that Hatton wouldn't beat Cotto, may not be 100% fact.

Foggy · Post by **Foggy** » 12 Mar 2006, 17:34

The Hatton-Witter subject is a sore one to talk about, I feel sorry for Witter because i feel he never had the chance Hatton had, i only got into boxing 3 years back so don't know all the in's & outs & all the politics but maybe Frank saw nothing in Witter, but i still believe he should have been given the chance like he gave Hatton, Is it becuase Hatton was more marketable thus he got the better fights & learned more etc etc, if you swap the situation & give Witter that same support would he have gone from strength to strength.

Cannibal · Post by **Cannibal** » 12 Mar 2006, 19:02

Hatton would beat Cotto in my opinion. Cotto is prone to lazy spells, has a suspect chin and has yet to face anyone world class.

Hatton has a high work rate to counter Cottos laziness, is a better fighter than anyone Cotto has faced to date and I think he could out work Cotto and possibly stope him. I do think Cotto is a quality fighter but at 140 I think Hatton takes him, Cotto might fare better at 147 where he is not so weight drained.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 13 Mar 2006, 05:16

lirva33 wrote:
jomothepure wrote:
lirva33 wrote: Do the majority of boxing fans think he would beat cotto and PBF? NO!
http://www.boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... ight=cotto
Look, we both know the difference between a Cotto vs Hatton match or a Vitali vs Ruiz match so lets end this ridiculous discussion.

Hatton dicksuckers have reached a new low on this board.

Sure, that's why Cotto was hanging on for dear life against Torres and Corley, because he's so dominant.

I know of very few people who agree with your viewpoint, including those on the other side of the atlantic.

lirva33 · Post by **lirva33** » 13 Mar 2006, 07:06

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
lirva33 wrote:
jomothepure wrote: http://www.boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... ight=cotto
Look, we both know the difference between a Cotto vs Hatton match or a Vitali vs Ruiz match so lets end this ridiculous discussion.

Hatton dicksuckers have reached a new low on this board.

Sure, that's why Cotto was hanging on for dear life against Torres and Corley, because he's so dominant.

I know of very few people who agree with your viewpoint, including those on the other side of the atlantic.

jesus.

A Cotto Hatton match would be seen as 50:50 by the majority of boxing fans.

A Vitali ruiz match would have been seen as at least 90:10 in favour of vitali.

Regardless.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 13 Mar 2006, 07:13

Oh right. I thought you were saying that a Cotto v Hatton fight would be massively in favour of Cotto.

I'd make it 65-35 to Hatton personally, Cotto looks extremely vulnerable these days, and likes to work at a leisurely pace and pick his shots. Think Hatton's high octane style would make him disorganised.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 13 Mar 2006, 09:04

Hattons pace would cause Cotto problems but Cotto jabs, power, combinations would cause Hatton many problems he hasn't faced yet either. Its probably 60-40 fight in favour of Hatton but could easily go the other way. Cottos looked shaky but I expect he wouldn't be as open and would be better conditioned against Hatton.

ABA Boxing · Post by **ABA Boxing** » 13 Mar 2006, 09:24

It is quite clear that there are some non Hatton fans, i for one like Hatton & would love to see Hatton V PBF

Hatton V Witter does not help the cause, i do not rate Witter in the same league as Hatton, but Witter is clearly in with a punchers chance.

So i am no promoter or manager but why would the Hatton camp want to risk all for a domestic tare up? That could ruin Hattons domination of the USA & the World.

Hatton V Cotto
(Hatton destroys Cotto to set up mega fight with PBF)

Hatton V PBF
(For the one of the best fights the World has seen outside the heavyweight division.)

Hatton V Witter (Only if the fights above dont go to plan!)

kevo · Post by **kevo** » 13 Mar 2006, 12:05

lirva33 wrote: Witter is the BRITISH, EUROPEAN and COMMONWEALTH champion.

Change the record mate.

British title: Won vs Alan Bosworth. Defended 0 times

Commonwealth title: Won vs Laatekwei Hammond. Defended against Fred Kinuthia, Lovemore N'dou (career best win) and Colin Lynes

European title: Won vs Jurgen Haek. Defended against Salvatore Battaglia, Krzysztof Bienias, Andreas Kotelnik and Colin Lynes.

Outside of N'dou and Kotelnik, Witter hasn't defended against/beaten anyone even resembling world class, so why should him being triple champ warrant him being cosidered one of the best at 140? I'm no Witter hater, I want both Brits to do well and eventually fight, but to say Hatton is ducking him, or that he deserves a shot based on the fact he owns three belts is ludicrous.

Can't believe you've got the gall to still post on this forum and have your opinions respected. You've got zero credability on here.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 13 Mar 2006, 12:12

Sorry to be pedantic Kevo, but he did defend the British title vs Lynes.

kevo · Post by **kevo** » 13 Mar 2006, 12:13

My mistake.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 13 Mar 2006, 14:32

Kevo wrote:
lirva33 wrote: Witter is the BRITISH, EUROPEAN and COMMONWEALTH champion.
Outside of N'dou and Kotelnik, Witter hasn't defended against/beaten anyone even resembling world class, so why should him being triple champ warrant him being cosidered one of the best at 140? I'm no Witter hater, I want both Brits to do well and eventually fight, but to say Hatton is ducking him, or that he deserves a shot based on the fact he owns three belts is ludicrous.
.

Witters CV is as good as anyones at 140

Witters best wins - Ndou (did better than Mitchell/Cotto), Bergman (good enough to challenege a Prime Zoo), Kotelnik (beat Abduleev), Lauri (in 2rounds compared to hattons 6), Battalgia (went 12 with Ukral), Biennas (went 12 with Ukral) - LOSS - Judah (a weeks notice went the distance and won a few rounds but fought negatively)

Cottos best Wins - Abduleev (lost to Kotelnik), Corley, Ndou (very very close), Torres (hasn't fought anyone to gage how good he is), Pinto (lost to an ancient Phillips)

Rabah - fought no one other than Morua, should have squared off with Ndou for Aus title before getting a shot at a title.

Harris - Ukral, Mbaiye, Hurtado

Mbaiye - Kotelnik (close fight like Witters and hes a mandatory from it)

Corralles/Castillo/Freitas - unproven at the weight but obviously top fighters.

WayoftheCass · Post by **WayoftheCass** » 16 Mar 2006, 01:46

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
Kevo wrote:
lirva33 wrote: Witter is the BRITISH, EUROPEAN and COMMONWEALTH champion.
Outside of N'dou and Kotelnik, Witter hasn't defended against/beaten anyone even resembling world class, so why should him being triple champ warrant him being cosidered one of the best at 140? I'm no Witter hater, I want both Brits to do well and eventually fight, but to say Hatton is ducking him, or that he deserves a shot based on the fact he owns three belts is ludicrous.
.
Witters CV is as good as anyones at 140

Witters best wins - Ndou (did better than Mitchell/Cotto), Bergman (good enough to challenege a Prime Zoo), Kotelnik (beat Abduleev), Lauri (in 2rounds compared to hattons 6), Battalgia (went 12 with Ukral), Biennas (went 12 with Ukral) - LOSS - Judah (a weeks notice went the distance and won a few rounds but fought negatively)

Cottos best Wins - Abduleev (lost to Kotelnik), Corley, Ndou (very very close), Torres (hasn't fought anyone to gage how good he is), Pinto (lost to an ancient Phillips)

Rabah - fought no one other than Morua, should have squared off with Ndou for Aus title before getting a shot at a title.

Harris - Ukral, Mbaiye, Hurtado

Mbaiye - Kotelnik (close fight like Witters and hes a mandatory from it)

Corralles/Castillo/Freitas - unproven at the weight but obviously top fighters.

Are you f*cking joking mate. Witter was not more impressive against N'Dou than Cotto. He scored 2 knockdowns yeah. But after round 5 N'Dou was on top for long patches. Check out the scorecards. He won it by 114-112 on 2 of them.
As for Battaglia

who is a nobody by the way and hasn't beaten anyone. Urkal , who beats everyone including his mother in law on points, beat him on points. So what? How does that make Witter blowing him away any better?
He beat Bergman in a 6 ROUNDER. And just because you challenge someone doesn't make you good as you claimed Bergman must have been to challenge Judah. By that logic Allan Vester and Wayne Martell were quality fighters.And Bergman was only a replacement for the injured Terron Millet in a fight for the vacant IBF title.
You say that Riccardo Torres never beat no one when refering to Cotto. True. But who the hell have Lauri and Biennes ever beat. And besides when people refer to Hatton's best wins I have never EVER heard anyone mention Lauri as one of them.
Yeah Witter beat Kotlenick. But it was close and even debated by ringsiders and Witter is not interested in a rematch.

Cotto schooled N'Dou. He won it going away. It was not "very,very close" by even the most wildest stretch of the imagination.
Abduallev was a once beaten(in bizarre circumstances) ex Olympic champ who had knocked out ex world champ Phil Holliday in 4.
Pinto was an unbeaten pucher who had beaten Manny Augustus and lost a TD because of a cut in like 5 rounds to Phillips. Hardly a devestating defeat.
Cotto has also beaten 2 time ex-world champ Randall Bailey(KO 6), ex lightweight king Cesar Bazan (KO 11), 2 time world title challenger Victoriano Sosa(KO 4) ( who gave PBF a godd argument over 12) and Gianluca Branco (KO eight) who had only lost once for a world title against Gatti and was given a decent chance before the fight. Put it this way Branco would bitch slap Lauri, Battaglia and Biennes.
Witter's record is really a joke. His 15 straight knockouts were against the bum of the month club. Why has he never fought even half decent domestic opponents like Jon Thaxton or taken on a real challenge like Eamonn Magee?

lirva33 · Post by **lirva33** » 16 Mar 2006, 02:08

WayoftheCass wrote:
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
Kevo wrote: Outside of N'dou and Kotelnik, Witter hasn't defended against/beaten anyone even resembling world class, so why should him being triple champ warrant him being cosidered one of the best at 140? I'm no Witter hater, I want both Brits to do well and eventually fight, but to say Hatton is ducking him, or that he deserves a shot based on the fact he owns three belts is ludicrous.
.
Witters CV is as good as anyones at 140

Witters best wins - Ndou (did better than Mitchell/Cotto), Bergman (good enough to challenege a Prime Zoo), Kotelnik (beat Abduleev), Lauri (in 2rounds compared to hattons 6), Battalgia (went 12 with Ukral), Biennas (went 12 with Ukral) - LOSS - Judah (a weeks notice went the distance and won a few rounds but fought negatively)

Cottos best Wins - Abduleev (lost to Kotelnik), Corley, Ndou (very very close), Torres (hasn't fought anyone to gage how good he is), Pinto (lost to an ancient Phillips)

Rabah - fought no one other than Morua, should have squared off with Ndou for Aus title before getting a shot at a title.

Harris - Ukral, Mbaiye, Hurtado

Mbaiye - Kotelnik (close fight like Witters and hes a mandatory from it)

Corralles/Castillo/Freitas - unproven at the weight but obviously top fighters.
Are you f*cking joking mate. Witter was not more impressive against N'Dou than Cotto. He scored 2 knockdowns yeah. But after round 5 N'Dou was on top for long patches. Check out the scorecards. He won it by 114-112 on 2 of them.
As for Battaglia who is a nobody by the way and hasn't beaten anyone. Urkal , who beats everyone including his mother in law on points, beat him on points. So what? How does that make Witter blowing him away any better?
He beat Bergman in a 6 ROUNDER. And just because you challenge someone doesn't make you good as you claimed Bergman must have been to challenge Judah. By that logic Allan Vester and Wayne Martell were quality fighters.And Bergman was only a replacement for the injured Terron Millet in a fight for the vacant IBF title.
You say that Riccardo Torres never beat no one when refering to Cotto. True. But who the hell have Lauri and Biennes ever beat. And besides when people refer to Hatton's best wins I have never EVER heard anyone mention Lauri as one of them.
Yeah Witter beat Kotlenick. But it was close and even debated by ringsiders and Witter is not interested in a rematch.

Cotto schooled N'Dou. He won it going away. It was not "very,very close" by even the most wildest stretch of the imagination.
Abduallev was a once beaten(in bizarre circumstances) ex Olympic champ who had knocked out ex world champ Phil Holliday in 4.
Pinto was an unbeaten pucher who had beaten Manny Augustus and lost a TD because of a cut in like 5 rounds to Phillips. Hardly a devestating defeat.
Cotto has also beaten 2 time ex-world champ Randall Bailey(KO 6), ex lightweight king Cesar Bazan (KO 11), 2 time world title challenger Victoriano Sosa(KO 4) ( who gave PBF a godd argument over 12) and Gianluca Branco (KO eight) who had only lost once for a world title against Gatti and was given a decent chance before the fight. Put it this way Branco would bitch slap Lauri, Battaglia and Biennes.
Witter's record is really a joke. His 15 straight knockouts were against the bum of the month club. Why has he never fought even half decent domestic opponents like Jon Thaxton or taken on a real challenge like Eamonn Magee?

kotelnik also beat abdullaev. guess who beat kotelnik.

cotto won the ndou fight 116-112 115-113 117-111, hardly "going away". that was a very tough fight for cotto. witter beat ndou much better. cotto was getting pummelled in the last 3 rounds vs ndou.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 16 Mar 2006, 06:23

I'm sorry, but Witters win was not more impressive, he was completely fucked over the second half of the fight, and came within a whisker of losing the fight. He looked very impressive early on, but very poor over the last third of the fight.

I was live at the Cotto fight, and at no point in the fight was Cotto getting clobbered.

Witter barely squeezed by Kotelnik.

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 16 Mar 2006, 07:42

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I'm sorry, but Witters win was not more impressive, he was completely fucked over the second half of the fight, and came within a whisker of losing the fight. He looked very impressive early on, but very poor over the last third of the fight.

I was live at the Cotto fight, and at no point in the fight was Cotto getting clobbered.

Witter barely squeezed by Kotelnik.

cotto won that n'dou fight wider than 2 and 4 pts.

those judges were fornicating blind to score it that close.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 16 Mar 2006, 09:34

I agree, I think I had it 117-112 at the time. Thought Cotto was pretty dominant throughout, the judges in Vegas always seem to reward aggression too much.